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Re: [wsjtgroup] Picking a Bone With Gene

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  • Dave Ackrill
    ... In the UK, despite what you might read, we use both. The speed limits are in MPH and distances on signs in miles. However, some of the imperial measures
    Message 1 of 24 , May 4, 2009
      Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
      > Les Rayburn wrote:
      >> With all due respect to Gene Zimmerman, W3ZZ, I have to disagree with
      >> some statements that he made in the May 2009 Issue of QST. In his
      >> column, "The World Above 50Mhz" Gene writes;
      >
      >
      >
      > I lost respect for Zimmerman several years ago, and quit reading _World
      > Above 50 MHZ_ when he insisted that VHF/UHF distance records MUST be
      > published in kilometers rather than miles, and refused to acknowledge
      > the need to at least publish both figures. I don't know how far a
      > kilometer is, and don't care.

      In the UK, despite what you might read, we use both.

      The speed limits are in MPH and distances on signs in miles.

      However, some of the imperial measures are different between UK and USA.
      Like, I think, the gallon?

      So, I have no problem with our contests being scored in km per point as
      it makes for bigger scores. LOL

      Dave (G0DJA)
    • Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
      ... On this matter, what happens in some other country is unimportant. I remember a number of years ago when there was a big push to force the US to convert
      Message 2 of 24 , May 4, 2009
        Joe - WDØM wrote:
        >
        > "Many years ago US Metric Association took a survey to determine which
        > countries have /officially/ adopted the metric system. According to
        > that survey, the only other countries besides the U.S. that have not
        > /officially/ adopted the metric system are *Liberia* (in western
        > Africa) and *Burma* (also known as *Myanmar*, in Southeast Asia)."
        >
        > http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/internat.htm
        >
        > I see the believers in non-metric standards are in good company
        > internationally.
        >











        On this matter, what happens in some other country is unimportant. I
        remember a number of years ago when there was a big push to force the US
        to convert to metric. It didn't happen, and isn't likely to.
        /Unofficially or officially, the people of this country didn't/don't
        want it. / This argument reminds me of the parent asking the child why
        he/she did a particular thing, and the child responds "well, Bobby did
        it". It would appear that the influence of the US Metric Association is
        insignificant at best.

        73,
        Mike, W5UC
        "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
        http://www.the912project.com
        http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/
      • Doug Millar
        Hi Dave, I think in both of your posts that you are quite right. I think in any situation of change there are usually three types of reactions: 1. Those who
        Message 3 of 24 , May 4, 2009
          Hi Dave,
          I think in both of your posts that you are quite right.

          I think in any situation of change there are usually three types
          of reactions:
          1. Those who reluctantly go into the future rear-end first
          (looking backwards).
          2. Those who look to the future but have their focus on the present.
          3. Those who look to the future and are thinking ahead.
          The constant is the progression of time, of course.
          I believe, as has been said, we are supposed to be in group 3.
          73,
          Doug
        • Joe - WDØM
          In this country, in most every industrial application, it s metric, since we have to sell American products in the rest of the world. As a former director of
          Message 4 of 24 , May 4, 2009
            In this country, in most every industrial application, it's metric, since we have to sell American products in the rest of the world.  As a former director of contracting for the USAF, I can assure you that the equipment/aircraft/systems we purchase are metric, are as most parts on your American made automobile.  So, I guess it does matter as to what is being done in this country since large parts of your daily life ARE metric - perhaps people haven't noticed.

            I have to agree - with metrics comes a "bigger" score!

            73,

            Joe, Colonel, USAF (Ret)
            WDØM
            Texan by accident of birth

            Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:

            Joe - WDØM wrote:
            >
            > "Many years ago US Metric Association took a survey to determine which
            > countries have /officially/ adopted the metric system. According to
            > that survey, the only other countries besides the U.S. that have not
            > /officially/ adopted the metric system are *Liberia* (in western
            > Africa) and *Burma* (also known as *Myanmar*, in Southeast Asia)."
            >
            > http://lamar. colostate. edu/~hillger/ internat. htm
            >
            > I see the believers in non-metric standards are in good company
            > internationally.
            >

            On this matter, what happens in some other country is unimportant. I
            remember a number of years ago when there was a big push to force the US
            to convert to metric. It didn't happen, and isn't likely to.
            /Unofficially or officially, the people of this country didn't/don't
            want it. / This argument reminds me of the parent asking the child why
            he/she did a particular thing, and the child responds "well, Bobby did
            it". It would appear that the influence of the US Metric Association is
            insignificant at best.

            73,
            Mike, W5UC
            "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
            http://www.the912pr oject.com
            http://www.suddenli nk.net/pages/ w5uc/

          • Andy obrien
            On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) ... This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such an obscure viewpoint. Andy
            Message 5 of 24 , May 4, 2009
              On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
              <w5uc@...> wrote:
              >

              > I lost respect for Zimmerman several years ago, and quit reading _World
              > Above 50 MHZ_ when he insisted that VHF/UHF distance records MUST be
              > published in kilometers rather than miles, and refused to acknowledge
              > the need to at least publish both figures. I don't know how far a
              > kilometer is, and don't care. The US is a nation whose distances are
              > measured in miles. Our minds automatically comprehend distances in
              > miles, and most of us don't want to be Europeanized. If Europeans are
              > happy with Kilometers, thats great, but I don't want to have to find a
              > calculator and conversion chart to figure out how far away my contact was.
              >
              > 73,
              > Mike, W5UC
              > "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
              > http://www.the912project.com
              > http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/


              This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such
              an obscure viewpoint.


              Andy K3UK.
            • Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
              ... Joe, that s just fantastic, but the bottom line is that my wife & I don t drive a military jet to Houston and back. The fact still remains that the US
              Message 6 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                Joe - WDØM wrote:
                >
                > In this country, in most every industrial application, it's metric,
                > since we have to sell American products in the rest of the world. As
                > a former director of contracting for the USAF, I can assure you that
                > the equipment/aircraft/systems we purchase are metric, are as most
                > parts on your American made automobile. So, I guess it does matter as
                > to what is being done in this country since large parts of your daily
                > life ARE metric - perhaps people haven't noticed.
                >
                > I have to agree - with metrics comes a "bigger" score!
                >
                > 73,
                >
                > Joe, Colonel, USAF (Ret)
                > WDØM
                > Texan by accident of birth
                >

















                Joe, that's just fantastic, but the bottom line is that my wife & I
                don't drive a military jet to Houston and back. The fact still remains
                that the US population doesn't want distances in km, and we are still
                able to successfully make it from here to work, or from here to Dallas
                despite the fact that our distances are measured in those cruddy old
                miles miles. This still goes back to the parent and the child. Just
                because the folks in BFE do it doesn't mean that we should.

                73,
                Mike, W5UC
                "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                http://www.the912project.com
                http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/
              • Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
                /This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such an obscure viewpoint. Andy K3UK./ Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation
                Message 7 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                  /This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such
                  an obscure viewpoint.

                  Andy K3UK./

                  Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift toward
                  mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't like that",
                  and others impose their will on us and move on.

                  This thread has drifted waaaaayyyy off topic, so I will cease further
                  comment. Thanks for the discussion.

                  73,
                  Mike, W5UC
                  "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                  http://www.the912project.com
                  http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/



















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































                  >
                  >
                • Joe - WDØM
                  Bottom line is that your car that you drive to Houston (and probably your ham radio equipment) uses metric parts - and if you work on it, you probably have
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                    Bottom line is that your car that you drive to Houston (and probably your ham radio equipment) uses metric parts - and if you work on it, you probably have metric tools in your tool box.  Your mechanic certainly does.

                    Having lived and worked around the world, and driven the autobahnen of Germany at well over 200 kph, as well as the English motorways at their maximum mph allowed, I find it sad that closed mindedness ends up in someone not reading an article simply based upon dimensional measurement.  That ends up in an individual's not understanding, in toto, the arguments set forth therein because they don't want to learn another form of dimensional measurement.  We certainly don't want to understand the rest of the world....

                    My Corvette has a button I can push to switch from mph to kph - it's fun to see the look on a passenger's face when we're doing over 100 kph, and they think it's mph.  At least Chevrolet understands that being American doesn't obviate the possibility that American owners understand metrics.....

                    I still love the "larger" score offered by using kilometers.  However, I suppose we could revert to the basis for the Anglo Saxon system which we now call the inch/foot/yard system:  "
                    both the foot and the yard are based on the Saxon ynce (inch), the foot being 36 barleycorns and the yard 108."   That means we'd be measuring distances as the width of barleycorns, and a mile would be 190,080 of them.  Come to think of it, THAT gives you a MUCH larger number than kilometers!  Anyone want to use a new system based upon miles?

                    73,

                    Joe
                    WDØM

                    Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:

                    Joe - WDØM wrote:
                    >
                    > In this country, in most every industrial application, it's metric,
                    > since we have to sell American products in the rest of the world. As
                    > a former director of contracting for the USAF, I can assure you that
                    > the equipment/aircraft/ systems we purchase are metric, are as most
                    > parts on your American made automobile. So, I guess it does matter as
                    > to what is being done in this country since large parts of your daily
                    > life ARE metric - perhaps people haven't noticed.
                    >
                    > I have to agree - with metrics comes a "bigger" score!
                    >
                    > 73,
                    >
                    > Joe, Colonel, USAF (Ret)
                    > WDØM
                    > Texan by accident of birth
                    >

                    Joe, that's just fantastic, but the bottom line is that my wife & I
                    don't drive a military jet to Houston and back. The fact still remains
                    that the US population doesn't want distances in km, and we are still
                    able to successfully make it from here to work, or from here to Dallas
                    despite the fact that our distances are measured in those cruddy old
                    miles miles. This still goes back to the parent and the child. Just
                    because the folks in BFE do it doesn't mean that we should.

                    73,
                    Mike, W5UC
                    "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                    http://www.the912pr oject.com
                    http://www.suddenli nk.net/pages/ w5uc/

                  • Paul Whatton
                    Strange as it may seem, in the UK the adoption of litres for buying petrol and milk, or kg for buying groceries has become a normal part of daily life. Just
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                      Strange as it may seem, in the UK the adoption of litres for buying
                      petrol and milk, or kg for buying groceries has become a normal part of
                      daily life. Just as my dual-national, bilingual children swap between
                      their European languages, us oldies swap between metric & imperial
                      without thinking about it. We do have some real curiosities, for example
                      buying 4" x 2" timber in metre lengths :-) And if yu go to buy aluminium
                      rod to build that new antenna you can't be sure until you measure it if
                      it's been drawn in imperial or metric, something that's caught me out a
                      few times. But as Dave G0DJA pointed out we have clung onto the really
                      important things like buying beer in the pub (but not the supermarket)
                      in pints and driving in miles per hour :-) I don't think anyone feels
                      less British because of metric. It's the swamping of British culture by
                      Hollywood cinema & US TV that does that for us :-) (Retires under the
                      table).

                      73 Paul G4DCV

                      Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > /This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such
                      > an obscure viewpoint.
                      >
                      > Andy K3UK./
                      >
                      > Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift toward
                      > mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't like that",
                      > and others impose their will on us and move on.
                      >
                      > This thread has drifted waaaaayyyy off topic, so I will cease further
                      > comment. Thanks for the discussion.
                      >
                      > 73,
                      > Mike, W5UC
                      > "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                      > http://www.the912project.com <http://www.the912project.com>
                      > http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/
                      > <http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/>
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                    • Paul Whatton
                      PS I meant to ask. Are you guys going to start asking for MS skeds on the 6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band? :-) Happy days 73 Paul G4DCV
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                        PS I meant to ask. Are you guys going to start asking for MS skeds on
                        the 6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band? :-)

                        Happy days

                        73 Paul G4DCV
                      • Joe - WDØM
                        I always thought that mediocrity was a result of not trying harder to understand new things and improve yourself..... See y all on the 6 foot 6 and 7 tenths
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                          I always thought that mediocrity was a result of not trying harder to understand new things and improve yourself.....

                          "See y'all on the "
                          6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band"  (Thanks Paul!)

                          73,

                          Joe
                          WDØM
                          Texan by accident of birth
                          Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
                          " Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift toward  mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't like that",  and others impose their will on us and move on."
                          Mike, W5UC
                          "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                        • Paul Whatton
                          Hi Joe I couldn t be bothered to work out what 50MHz was- 19 feet something :-) While I m at it can I just mention another thing on this topic that gets right
                          Message 12 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                            Hi Joe

                            I couldn't be bothered to work out what 50MHz was- 19 feet something :-)

                            While I'm at it can I just mention another thing on this topic that gets
                            right up my nose. :-) Why oh why do M2 not give metric dimensions as
                            well as inches in their instructions? I've bought three of their
                            (excellent) antennas for 2m, a pair of 5W 17s for the contest group and
                            a 9 ele which I use here at home. I sometimes have to assemble the 17
                            eles in the dark, when it's cold and blowing a gale and when I'd really,
                            really rather be tucked up in the warm pub (pub = bar) down the road.

                            To centre just one element taking into account the variable boom
                            diameter just isn't any fun at all using inches and fractions of them.
                            And I have 34 of the damn things to do! On VHF National Field Day we run
                            two arrays of 5W 17 eles which we assemble in a farmer's field and so
                            that's 68 elements!!! Arghhhh! Millimetres would be so much easier...
                            Trust me, it would. At least in the UK we have tape measures that have
                            inches on them as well as metric.

                            My poor friends inthe rest of Europe who have never seen an inch, let
                            alone know what 6 of them look like, are stuffed!

                            Why do M2 do this to us? Surely not arrogance or a one finger salute to
                            their customers in Europe? Great yagis, bloody awful parochial instructions!

                            Metric rules KO!

                            73 Paul G4DCV

                            Joe - WDØM wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > I always thought that mediocrity was a result of not trying harder to
                            > understand new things and improve yourself.....
                            >
                            > "See y'all on the "6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band" (Thanks Paul!)
                            >
                            > 73,
                            >
                            > Joe
                            > WDØM
                            > Texan by accident of birth
                            >> Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
                            >>> " Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift
                            >>> toward mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't
                            >>> like that", and others impose their will on us and move on."
                            >>> Mike, W5UC
                            >>> "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                            >
                            >
                          • Joe - WDØM
                            Metrics are just to much easier to work with....no trying to figure out feet and inches.....when I lived in Germany, or traveled through Europe or Asia, it was
                            Message 13 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                              Metrics are just to much easier to work with....no trying to figure out feet and inches.....when I lived in Germany, or traveled through Europe or Asia, it was so easy.  I'm ambi-dimensional, I suppose....I can get by with either - but metric measurement is just so logical...as highlighted when NASA used Imperial units of measurement instead of metrics, causing the Mars Climate Orbiter to miss its mark and destroy the spacecraft.

                              Next time I'm in Europe, I'll pick up the tab for a pint and a plowmans at your favorite pub...until then, kilometers for measuring distance in WSJT sounds fine to me.

                              Cheers,

                              Joe
                              WDØM

                              Paul Whatton wrote:

                              Hi Joe

                              I couldn't be bothered to work out what 50MHz was- 19 feet something :-)

                              While I'm at it can I just mention another thing on this topic that gets
                              right up my nose. :-) Why oh why do M2 not give metric dimensions as
                              well as inches in their instructions? I've bought three of their
                              (excellent) antennas for 2m, a pair of 5W 17s for the contest group and
                              a 9 ele which I use here at home. I sometimes have to assemble the 17
                              eles in the dark, when it's cold and blowing a gale and when I'd really,
                              really rather be tucked up in the warm pub (pub = bar) down the road.

                              To centre just one element taking into account the variable boom
                              diameter just isn't any fun at all using inches and fractions of them.
                              And I have 34 of the damn things to do! On VHF National Field Day we run
                              two arrays of 5W 17 eles which we assemble in a farmer's field and so
                              that's 68 elements!!! Arghhhh! Millimetres would be so much easier...
                              Trust me, it would. At least in the UK we have tape measures that have
                              inches on them as well as metric.

                              My poor friends inthe rest of Europe who have never seen an inch, let
                              alone know what 6 of them look like, are stuffed!

                              Why do M2 do this to us? Surely not arrogance or a one finger salute to
                              their customers in Europe? Great yagis, bloody awful parochial instructions!

                              Metric rules KO!

                              73 Paul G4DCV

                              Joe - WDØM wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > I always thought that mediocrity was a result of not trying harder to
                              > understand new things and improve yourself.... .
                              >
                              > "See y'all on the "6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band" (Thanks Paul!)
                              >
                              > 73,
                              >
                              > Joe
                              > WDØM
                              > Texan by accident of birth
                              >> Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
                              >>> " Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift
                              >>> toward mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't
                              >>> like that", and others impose their will on us and move on."
                              >>> Mike, W5UC
                              >>> "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                              >
                              >

                            • Russ K2TXB
                              Well Mike, if you don t think the US has converted to metric then you must never have to work on any cars, tractors, lawn mowers, wheelbarrows, etc with hand
                              Message 14 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                                Well Mike, if you don't think the US has converted to metric then you must never have to work on any cars, tractors, lawn mowers, wheelbarrows, etc with hand tools.  These days it is not only necessary to have a full set of wrenches and sockets in both US and metric sizes; you also have to maintain a stock of metric sized nuts, bolts, and washers.  Also metric size taps and dies.  And this is just for a hobbyist.  I imagine that any auto shop would tell of an even greater requirement.
                                 
                                Also I see a lot of road signs, these days that show distances in KM.  Medical tubing is measured in centimeters as are a lot of other medical and scientific supplies and tools.
                                 
                                While I like the old 1/4, 3/8. 7/16, 1/2, 5/8, 9/16, 3/4. 7/8 inch wrenches, it is time to realize that it would be better if the whole world was on the same standard.  Of course places that sell tools are making out with the current dual system as they get to sell twice as much stuff.
                                 
                                73, Russ K2TXB
                                 
                                PS: It seems pretty petty to "Lose Respect" for Gene over such a small point.  I have known Gene for many years and he is a very enthusiastic VHF and above operator and supporter.  I also do not agree with his comments on FSK441, but I can respect the man without requiring him to always agree with me.
                                 


                                From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
                                Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:29 PM
                                To: Joe - WDØM
                                Cc: WSJT Group
                                Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] Picking a Bone With Gene

                                Joe - WDØM wrote:
                                >
                                > "Many years ago US Metric Association took a survey to determine which
                                > countries have /officially/ adopted the metric system. According to
                                > that survey, the only other countries besides the U.S. that have not
                                > /officially/ adopted the metric system are *Liberia* (in western
                                > Africa) and *Burma* (also known as *Myanmar*, in Southeast Asia)."
                                >
                                > http://lamar. colostate. edu/~hillger/ internat. htm
                                >
                                > I see the believers in non-metric standards are in good company
                                > internationally.
                                >

                                On this matter, what happens in some other country is unimportant. I
                                remember a number of years ago when there was a big push to force the US
                                to convert to metric. It didn't happen, and isn't likely to.
                                /Unofficially or officially, the people of this country didn't/don't
                                want it. / This argument reminds me of the parent asking the child why
                                he/she did a particular thing, and the child responds "well, Bobby did
                                it". It would appear that the influence of the US Metric Association is
                                insignificant at best.

                                73,
                                Mike, W5UC
                                "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                                http://www.the912pr oject.com
                                http://www.suddenli nk.net/pages/ w5uc/

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