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Re: [wsjtgroup] Picking a Bone With Gene

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  • Joe - WDØM
    Many years ago US Metric Association took a survey to determine which countries have /officially/ adopted the metric system. According to that survey, the
    Message 1 of 24 , May 4, 2009
      "Many years ago US Metric Association took a survey to determine which countries have officially adopted the metric system. According to that survey, the only other countries besides the U.S. that have not officially adopted the metric system are Liberia (in western Africa) and Burma (also known as Myanmar, in Southeast Asia)."

      http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/internat.htm

      I see the believers in non-metric standards are in good company internationally.

      73,

      Joe
      WDØM

      (a Texan by accident of birth)


      Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:

      Les Rayburn wrote:
      >
      > With all due respect to Gene Zimmerman, W3ZZ, I have to disagree with
      > some statements that he made in the May 2009 Issue of QST. In his
      > column, "The World Above 50Mhz" Gene writes;

      I lost respect for Zimmerman several years ago, and quit reading _World
      Above 50 MHZ_ when he insisted that VHF/UHF distance records MUST be
      published in kilometers rather than miles, and refused to acknowledge
      the need to at least publish both figures. I don't know how far a
      kilometer is, and don't care. The US is a nation whose distances are
      measured in miles. Our minds automatically comprehend distances in
      miles, and most of us don't want to be Europeanized. If Europeans are
      happy with Kilometers, thats great, but I don't want to have to find a
      calculator and conversion chart to figure out how far away my contact was.

      73,
      Mike, W5UC
      "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
      http://www.the912pr oject.com
      http://www.suddenli nk.net/pages/ w5uc/

    • Dave Ackrill
      ... As I said in my reply, I have not read the article and, therefore, had to base my reply on the information given in the original posting. I hope that the
      Message 2 of 24 , May 4, 2009
        Doug Millar wrote:
        > I think there
        > are two separate issues. We should discuss scoring on its own merits
        > and how to improve it. If Gene wants to get into a discussion about
        > digital modes, that should be separate. If Gene is a JT supporter,
        > perhaps he needs to clarify his position.

        As I said in my reply, I have not read the article and, therefore, had
        to base my reply on the information given in the original posting.

        I hope that the reply made clear that I was not doing a critique of the
        article, but the attitude that is sometimes engendered by 'new'
        techniques and systems. It is not that long ago that opponents of modes
        like PSK31 were attempting to invoke the then UK regulations by
        suggesting that they were a 'code or cypher' which were, at that time,
        specifically disallowed.

        I have a saying of my own that misquotes a famous saying about the
        British and USA, that at times we appear to be a hobby where people are
        separated by a common interest...

        I've sometimes been surprised by friends of mine, who I thought had
        broad minds, suggesting that some new development was 'not real radio'.
        I often wonder what they are afraid of? In the age of the internet,
        social networking and mobile phones Amateur Radio still enthuses people
        to build stuff, operate on a variety of bands using many different modes
        and discover how to make contact with many, or few, other people.

        Dave (G0DJA)
      • Dave Ackrill
        ... In the UK, despite what you might read, we use both. The speed limits are in MPH and distances on signs in miles. However, some of the imperial measures
        Message 3 of 24 , May 4, 2009
          Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
          > Les Rayburn wrote:
          >> With all due respect to Gene Zimmerman, W3ZZ, I have to disagree with
          >> some statements that he made in the May 2009 Issue of QST. In his
          >> column, "The World Above 50Mhz" Gene writes;
          >
          >
          >
          > I lost respect for Zimmerman several years ago, and quit reading _World
          > Above 50 MHZ_ when he insisted that VHF/UHF distance records MUST be
          > published in kilometers rather than miles, and refused to acknowledge
          > the need to at least publish both figures. I don't know how far a
          > kilometer is, and don't care.

          In the UK, despite what you might read, we use both.

          The speed limits are in MPH and distances on signs in miles.

          However, some of the imperial measures are different between UK and USA.
          Like, I think, the gallon?

          So, I have no problem with our contests being scored in km per point as
          it makes for bigger scores. LOL

          Dave (G0DJA)
        • Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
          ... On this matter, what happens in some other country is unimportant. I remember a number of years ago when there was a big push to force the US to convert
          Message 4 of 24 , May 4, 2009
            Joe - WDØM wrote:
            >
            > "Many years ago US Metric Association took a survey to determine which
            > countries have /officially/ adopted the metric system. According to
            > that survey, the only other countries besides the U.S. that have not
            > /officially/ adopted the metric system are *Liberia* (in western
            > Africa) and *Burma* (also known as *Myanmar*, in Southeast Asia)."
            >
            > http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/internat.htm
            >
            > I see the believers in non-metric standards are in good company
            > internationally.
            >











            On this matter, what happens in some other country is unimportant. I
            remember a number of years ago when there was a big push to force the US
            to convert to metric. It didn't happen, and isn't likely to.
            /Unofficially or officially, the people of this country didn't/don't
            want it. / This argument reminds me of the parent asking the child why
            he/she did a particular thing, and the child responds "well, Bobby did
            it". It would appear that the influence of the US Metric Association is
            insignificant at best.

            73,
            Mike, W5UC
            "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
            http://www.the912project.com
            http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/
          • Doug Millar
            Hi Dave, I think in both of your posts that you are quite right. I think in any situation of change there are usually three types of reactions: 1. Those who
            Message 5 of 24 , May 4, 2009
              Hi Dave,
              I think in both of your posts that you are quite right.

              I think in any situation of change there are usually three types
              of reactions:
              1. Those who reluctantly go into the future rear-end first
              (looking backwards).
              2. Those who look to the future but have their focus on the present.
              3. Those who look to the future and are thinking ahead.
              The constant is the progression of time, of course.
              I believe, as has been said, we are supposed to be in group 3.
              73,
              Doug
            • Joe - WDØM
              In this country, in most every industrial application, it s metric, since we have to sell American products in the rest of the world. As a former director of
              Message 6 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                In this country, in most every industrial application, it's metric, since we have to sell American products in the rest of the world.  As a former director of contracting for the USAF, I can assure you that the equipment/aircraft/systems we purchase are metric, are as most parts on your American made automobile.  So, I guess it does matter as to what is being done in this country since large parts of your daily life ARE metric - perhaps people haven't noticed.

                I have to agree - with metrics comes a "bigger" score!

                73,

                Joe, Colonel, USAF (Ret)
                WDØM
                Texan by accident of birth

                Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:

                Joe - WDØM wrote:
                >
                > "Many years ago US Metric Association took a survey to determine which
                > countries have /officially/ adopted the metric system. According to
                > that survey, the only other countries besides the U.S. that have not
                > /officially/ adopted the metric system are *Liberia* (in western
                > Africa) and *Burma* (also known as *Myanmar*, in Southeast Asia)."
                >
                > http://lamar. colostate. edu/~hillger/ internat. htm
                >
                > I see the believers in non-metric standards are in good company
                > internationally.
                >

                On this matter, what happens in some other country is unimportant. I
                remember a number of years ago when there was a big push to force the US
                to convert to metric. It didn't happen, and isn't likely to.
                /Unofficially or officially, the people of this country didn't/don't
                want it. / This argument reminds me of the parent asking the child why
                he/she did a particular thing, and the child responds "well, Bobby did
                it". It would appear that the influence of the US Metric Association is
                insignificant at best.

                73,
                Mike, W5UC
                "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                http://www.the912pr oject.com
                http://www.suddenli nk.net/pages/ w5uc/

              • Andy obrien
                On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) ... This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such an obscure viewpoint. Andy
                Message 7 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                  On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
                  <w5uc@...> wrote:
                  >

                  > I lost respect for Zimmerman several years ago, and quit reading _World
                  > Above 50 MHZ_ when he insisted that VHF/UHF distance records MUST be
                  > published in kilometers rather than miles, and refused to acknowledge
                  > the need to at least publish both figures. I don't know how far a
                  > kilometer is, and don't care. The US is a nation whose distances are
                  > measured in miles. Our minds automatically comprehend distances in
                  > miles, and most of us don't want to be Europeanized. If Europeans are
                  > happy with Kilometers, thats great, but I don't want to have to find a
                  > calculator and conversion chart to figure out how far away my contact was.
                  >
                  > 73,
                  > Mike, W5UC
                  > "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                  > http://www.the912project.com
                  > http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/


                  This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such
                  an obscure viewpoint.


                  Andy K3UK.
                • Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
                  ... Joe, that s just fantastic, but the bottom line is that my wife & I don t drive a military jet to Houston and back. The fact still remains that the US
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                    Joe - WDØM wrote:
                    >
                    > In this country, in most every industrial application, it's metric,
                    > since we have to sell American products in the rest of the world. As
                    > a former director of contracting for the USAF, I can assure you that
                    > the equipment/aircraft/systems we purchase are metric, are as most
                    > parts on your American made automobile. So, I guess it does matter as
                    > to what is being done in this country since large parts of your daily
                    > life ARE metric - perhaps people haven't noticed.
                    >
                    > I have to agree - with metrics comes a "bigger" score!
                    >
                    > 73,
                    >
                    > Joe, Colonel, USAF (Ret)
                    > WDØM
                    > Texan by accident of birth
                    >

















                    Joe, that's just fantastic, but the bottom line is that my wife & I
                    don't drive a military jet to Houston and back. The fact still remains
                    that the US population doesn't want distances in km, and we are still
                    able to successfully make it from here to work, or from here to Dallas
                    despite the fact that our distances are measured in those cruddy old
                    miles miles. This still goes back to the parent and the child. Just
                    because the folks in BFE do it doesn't mean that we should.

                    73,
                    Mike, W5UC
                    "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                    http://www.the912project.com
                    http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/
                  • Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
                    /This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such an obscure viewpoint. Andy K3UK./ Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                      /This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such
                      an obscure viewpoint.

                      Andy K3UK./

                      Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift toward
                      mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't like that",
                      and others impose their will on us and move on.

                      This thread has drifted waaaaayyyy off topic, so I will cease further
                      comment. Thanks for the discussion.

                      73,
                      Mike, W5UC
                      "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                      http://www.the912project.com
                      http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/



















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































                      >
                      >
                    • Joe - WDØM
                      Bottom line is that your car that you drive to Houston (and probably your ham radio equipment) uses metric parts - and if you work on it, you probably have
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                        Bottom line is that your car that you drive to Houston (and probably your ham radio equipment) uses metric parts - and if you work on it, you probably have metric tools in your tool box.  Your mechanic certainly does.

                        Having lived and worked around the world, and driven the autobahnen of Germany at well over 200 kph, as well as the English motorways at their maximum mph allowed, I find it sad that closed mindedness ends up in someone not reading an article simply based upon dimensional measurement.  That ends up in an individual's not understanding, in toto, the arguments set forth therein because they don't want to learn another form of dimensional measurement.  We certainly don't want to understand the rest of the world....

                        My Corvette has a button I can push to switch from mph to kph - it's fun to see the look on a passenger's face when we're doing over 100 kph, and they think it's mph.  At least Chevrolet understands that being American doesn't obviate the possibility that American owners understand metrics.....

                        I still love the "larger" score offered by using kilometers.  However, I suppose we could revert to the basis for the Anglo Saxon system which we now call the inch/foot/yard system:  "
                        both the foot and the yard are based on the Saxon ynce (inch), the foot being 36 barleycorns and the yard 108."   That means we'd be measuring distances as the width of barleycorns, and a mile would be 190,080 of them.  Come to think of it, THAT gives you a MUCH larger number than kilometers!  Anyone want to use a new system based upon miles?

                        73,

                        Joe
                        WDØM

                        Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:

                        Joe - WDØM wrote:
                        >
                        > In this country, in most every industrial application, it's metric,
                        > since we have to sell American products in the rest of the world. As
                        > a former director of contracting for the USAF, I can assure you that
                        > the equipment/aircraft/ systems we purchase are metric, are as most
                        > parts on your American made automobile. So, I guess it does matter as
                        > to what is being done in this country since large parts of your daily
                        > life ARE metric - perhaps people haven't noticed.
                        >
                        > I have to agree - with metrics comes a "bigger" score!
                        >
                        > 73,
                        >
                        > Joe, Colonel, USAF (Ret)
                        > WDØM
                        > Texan by accident of birth
                        >

                        Joe, that's just fantastic, but the bottom line is that my wife & I
                        don't drive a military jet to Houston and back. The fact still remains
                        that the US population doesn't want distances in km, and we are still
                        able to successfully make it from here to work, or from here to Dallas
                        despite the fact that our distances are measured in those cruddy old
                        miles miles. This still goes back to the parent and the child. Just
                        because the folks in BFE do it doesn't mean that we should.

                        73,
                        Mike, W5UC
                        "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                        http://www.the912pr oject.com
                        http://www.suddenli nk.net/pages/ w5uc/

                      • Paul Whatton
                        Strange as it may seem, in the UK the adoption of litres for buying petrol and milk, or kg for buying groceries has become a normal part of daily life. Just
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                          Strange as it may seem, in the UK the adoption of litres for buying
                          petrol and milk, or kg for buying groceries has become a normal part of
                          daily life. Just as my dual-national, bilingual children swap between
                          their European languages, us oldies swap between metric & imperial
                          without thinking about it. We do have some real curiosities, for example
                          buying 4" x 2" timber in metre lengths :-) And if yu go to buy aluminium
                          rod to build that new antenna you can't be sure until you measure it if
                          it's been drawn in imperial or metric, something that's caught me out a
                          few times. But as Dave G0DJA pointed out we have clung onto the really
                          important things like buying beer in the pub (but not the supermarket)
                          in pints and driving in miles per hour :-) I don't think anyone feels
                          less British because of metric. It's the swamping of British culture by
                          Hollywood cinema & US TV that does that for us :-) (Retires under the
                          table).

                          73 Paul G4DCV

                          Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > /This is very sad, that one would stop reading an article based on such
                          > an obscure viewpoint.
                          >
                          > Andy K3UK./
                          >
                          > Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift toward
                          > mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't like that",
                          > and others impose their will on us and move on.
                          >
                          > This thread has drifted waaaaayyyy off topic, so I will cease further
                          > comment. Thanks for the discussion.
                          >
                          > 73,
                          > Mike, W5UC
                          > "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                          > http://www.the912project.com <http://www.the912project.com>
                          > http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/
                          > <http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/>
                          >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                        • Paul Whatton
                          PS I meant to ask. Are you guys going to start asking for MS skeds on the 6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band? :-) Happy days 73 Paul G4DCV
                          Message 12 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                            PS I meant to ask. Are you guys going to start asking for MS skeds on
                            the 6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band? :-)

                            Happy days

                            73 Paul G4DCV
                          • Joe - WDØM
                            I always thought that mediocrity was a result of not trying harder to understand new things and improve yourself..... See y all on the 6 foot 6 and 7 tenths
                            Message 13 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                              I always thought that mediocrity was a result of not trying harder to understand new things and improve yourself.....

                              "See y'all on the "
                              6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band"  (Thanks Paul!)

                              73,

                              Joe
                              WDØM
                              Texan by accident of birth
                              Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
                              " Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift toward  mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't like that",  and others impose their will on us and move on."
                              Mike, W5UC
                              "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                            • Paul Whatton
                              Hi Joe I couldn t be bothered to work out what 50MHz was- 19 feet something :-) While I m at it can I just mention another thing on this topic that gets right
                              Message 14 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                                Hi Joe

                                I couldn't be bothered to work out what 50MHz was- 19 feet something :-)

                                While I'm at it can I just mention another thing on this topic that gets
                                right up my nose. :-) Why oh why do M2 not give metric dimensions as
                                well as inches in their instructions? I've bought three of their
                                (excellent) antennas for 2m, a pair of 5W 17s for the contest group and
                                a 9 ele which I use here at home. I sometimes have to assemble the 17
                                eles in the dark, when it's cold and blowing a gale and when I'd really,
                                really rather be tucked up in the warm pub (pub = bar) down the road.

                                To centre just one element taking into account the variable boom
                                diameter just isn't any fun at all using inches and fractions of them.
                                And I have 34 of the damn things to do! On VHF National Field Day we run
                                two arrays of 5W 17 eles which we assemble in a farmer's field and so
                                that's 68 elements!!! Arghhhh! Millimetres would be so much easier...
                                Trust me, it would. At least in the UK we have tape measures that have
                                inches on them as well as metric.

                                My poor friends inthe rest of Europe who have never seen an inch, let
                                alone know what 6 of them look like, are stuffed!

                                Why do M2 do this to us? Surely not arrogance or a one finger salute to
                                their customers in Europe? Great yagis, bloody awful parochial instructions!

                                Metric rules KO!

                                73 Paul G4DCV

                                Joe - WDØM wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > I always thought that mediocrity was a result of not trying harder to
                                > understand new things and improve yourself.....
                                >
                                > "See y'all on the "6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band" (Thanks Paul!)
                                >
                                > 73,
                                >
                                > Joe
                                > WDØM
                                > Texan by accident of birth
                                >> Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
                                >>> " Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift
                                >>> toward mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't
                                >>> like that", and others impose their will on us and move on."
                                >>> Mike, W5UC
                                >>> "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                                >
                                >
                              • Joe - WDØM
                                Metrics are just to much easier to work with....no trying to figure out feet and inches.....when I lived in Germany, or traveled through Europe or Asia, it was
                                Message 15 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                                  Metrics are just to much easier to work with....no trying to figure out feet and inches.....when I lived in Germany, or traveled through Europe or Asia, it was so easy.  I'm ambi-dimensional, I suppose....I can get by with either - but metric measurement is just so logical...as highlighted when NASA used Imperial units of measurement instead of metrics, causing the Mars Climate Orbiter to miss its mark and destroy the spacecraft.

                                  Next time I'm in Europe, I'll pick up the tab for a pint and a plowmans at your favorite pub...until then, kilometers for measuring distance in WSJT sounds fine to me.

                                  Cheers,

                                  Joe
                                  WDØM

                                  Paul Whatton wrote:

                                  Hi Joe

                                  I couldn't be bothered to work out what 50MHz was- 19 feet something :-)

                                  While I'm at it can I just mention another thing on this topic that gets
                                  right up my nose. :-) Why oh why do M2 not give metric dimensions as
                                  well as inches in their instructions? I've bought three of their
                                  (excellent) antennas for 2m, a pair of 5W 17s for the contest group and
                                  a 9 ele which I use here at home. I sometimes have to assemble the 17
                                  eles in the dark, when it's cold and blowing a gale and when I'd really,
                                  really rather be tucked up in the warm pub (pub = bar) down the road.

                                  To centre just one element taking into account the variable boom
                                  diameter just isn't any fun at all using inches and fractions of them.
                                  And I have 34 of the damn things to do! On VHF National Field Day we run
                                  two arrays of 5W 17 eles which we assemble in a farmer's field and so
                                  that's 68 elements!!! Arghhhh! Millimetres would be so much easier...
                                  Trust me, it would. At least in the UK we have tape measures that have
                                  inches on them as well as metric.

                                  My poor friends inthe rest of Europe who have never seen an inch, let
                                  alone know what 6 of them look like, are stuffed!

                                  Why do M2 do this to us? Surely not arrogance or a one finger salute to
                                  their customers in Europe? Great yagis, bloody awful parochial instructions!

                                  Metric rules KO!

                                  73 Paul G4DCV

                                  Joe - WDØM wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I always thought that mediocrity was a result of not trying harder to
                                  > understand new things and improve yourself.... .
                                  >
                                  > "See y'all on the "6 foot 6 and 7 tenths band" (Thanks Paul!)
                                  >
                                  > 73,
                                  >
                                  > Joe
                                  > WDØM
                                  > Texan by accident of birth
                                  >> Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
                                  >>> " Maybe so, maybe no. The reason we as a nation continue to drift
                                  >>> toward mediocrity is that we no longer stand up and say "I don't
                                  >>> like that", and others impose their will on us and move on."
                                  >>> Mike, W5UC
                                  >>> "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                                  >
                                  >

                                • Russ K2TXB
                                  Well Mike, if you don t think the US has converted to metric then you must never have to work on any cars, tractors, lawn mowers, wheelbarrows, etc with hand
                                  Message 16 of 24 , May 4, 2009
                                    Well Mike, if you don't think the US has converted to metric then you must never have to work on any cars, tractors, lawn mowers, wheelbarrows, etc with hand tools.  These days it is not only necessary to have a full set of wrenches and sockets in both US and metric sizes; you also have to maintain a stock of metric sized nuts, bolts, and washers.  Also metric size taps and dies.  And this is just for a hobbyist.  I imagine that any auto shop would tell of an even greater requirement.
                                     
                                    Also I see a lot of road signs, these days that show distances in KM.  Medical tubing is measured in centimeters as are a lot of other medical and scientific supplies and tools.
                                     
                                    While I like the old 1/4, 3/8. 7/16, 1/2, 5/8, 9/16, 3/4. 7/8 inch wrenches, it is time to realize that it would be better if the whole world was on the same standard.  Of course places that sell tools are making out with the current dual system as they get to sell twice as much stuff.
                                     
                                    73, Russ K2TXB
                                     
                                    PS: It seems pretty petty to "Lose Respect" for Gene over such a small point.  I have known Gene for many years and he is a very enthusiastic VHF and above operator and supporter.  I also do not agree with his comments on FSK441, but I can respect the man without requiring him to always agree with me.
                                     


                                    From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)
                                    Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:29 PM
                                    To: Joe - WDØM
                                    Cc: WSJT Group
                                    Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] Picking a Bone With Gene

                                    Joe - WDØM wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "Many years ago US Metric Association took a survey to determine which
                                    > countries have /officially/ adopted the metric system. According to
                                    > that survey, the only other countries besides the U.S. that have not
                                    > /officially/ adopted the metric system are *Liberia* (in western
                                    > Africa) and *Burma* (also known as *Myanmar*, in Southeast Asia)."
                                    >
                                    > http://lamar. colostate. edu/~hillger/ internat. htm
                                    >
                                    > I see the believers in non-metric standards are in good company
                                    > internationally.
                                    >

                                    On this matter, what happens in some other country is unimportant. I
                                    remember a number of years ago when there was a big push to force the US
                                    to convert to metric. It didn't happen, and isn't likely to.
                                    /Unofficially or officially, the people of this country didn't/don't
                                    want it. / This argument reminds me of the parent asking the child why
                                    he/she did a particular thing, and the child responds "well, Bobby did
                                    it". It would appear that the influence of the US Metric Association is
                                    insignificant at best.

                                    73,
                                    Mike, W5UC
                                    "American by birth. Texan by the grace of God*
                                    http://www.the912pr oject.com
                                    http://www.suddenli nk.net/pages/ w5uc/

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