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Re: [wsjtgroup] FW: Random Hour - calling freq ops

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  • Bruce Brackin
    Tip - got your post and clip from Rex after I sent mine. Would seem the use of simplex on calling freq for the hour would be FB as any qrm would be
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 8, 2003
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      Tip - got your post and clip from Rex after I sent mine. Would seem the
      use of simplex on calling freq for the hour would be FB as any qrm would
      be unintentional and we would all understand - geometry would take care
      of most problems.

      Should be no problem for the BC and BC/RPT but depending on where you
      and partner are in message sequence, I see a potential problem with the
      R26/27, RRR and 73's messages - i.e. who is sending to who? - could get
      real confusing. Fix could be adding call (mine or theirs?) to these
      messages and use MT's?

      Also, are most dropping off-line for the hour? I do.

      Bruce, KD5IUG
    • Randy Tipton
      Bruce brings up an interesting point. If two are sending single tones or multitones as you pointed out, any message absent of both calls, it could get
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 8, 2003
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        Bruce brings up an interesting point. If two are sending single tones or multitones as you pointed out, any message absent of both calls, it could get confusing. Of course if you were expecting Rpts and got RRR or 73 you would know to ignore that. But if you were sending reports, rrr’s or 73’s it could be very difficult to determine if it is the station you’re working. If you use single tones the DF will change with each message.  But when we qsy up or down, there in no guarantee we will not end up on the same frequency as another qso so there is really no “perfect” arrangement.

         

        So your scheme of adding a call to the RRR or R26 ( WA5UFH RRR WA5UFH RRR OR WA5UFH R26 WA5UFH R26) might be the solution. I wonder what others think? You know, working Unassisted is not easy, but rewarding… For me, if I know there is another qso I am hearing, I might try the Call Rpt scheme but if I have gotten BC’s and Rpts without hearing anything else, I might continue with single tones.

         

        I also read the note from Andy referring to his thoughts on QSY. In my opinion the calling station sets the qso frequency. If we have stations calling both ways, we should all retain the skills for qsy and simplex operations. So I hope we see the use of both methods, sometimes a little flexibility is nice, even with meteor scatter! So I will be making sure before I answer a CQ that he is not listening up or down the band.

         

        Bruce concerning the use of PJ for unassisted hour, I stay connected and monitor the activity. If I see a new station or one I need, I would change to assisted in a heartbeat to work a new grid or state.  I don’t see where it matters but to be truly unassisted in my view you would not post any information while calling CQ or monitoring for CQ’s. I see several thanking others for random contacts ect… and several have even asked process type questions and made comments relating to the activity. That seems to be part of the learning / training exercise and not taking away from the “Random Contacts”.

         

         

        Tip

         

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bruce Brackin [mailto:bbrackin@...]
        Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 10:19 AM
        To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] FW: Random Hour - calling freq ops

         

        Tip - got your post and clip from Rex after I sent mine.  Would seem the
        use of simplex on calling freq for the hour would be FB as any qrm would
        be unintentional and we would all understand - geometry would take care
        of most problems. 

        Should be no problem for the BC and BC/RPT but depending on where you
        and partner are in message sequence, I see a potential problem with the
        R26/27, RRR and 73's messages - i.e. who is sending to who? - could get
        real confusing.  Fix could be adding call (mine or theirs?) to these
        messages and use MT's?

        Also, are most dropping off-line for the hour?  I do.

        Bruce, KD5IUG


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      • Rex Moncur
        Hi Randy and all Yes for activity sessions on the focus frequency the transmitting station always adds their call sign to reports, RRR and 73. This is covered
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 8, 2003
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          Hi Randy and all
           
          Yes for activity sessions on the focus frequency the transmitting station always adds their call sign to reports, RRR and 73.  This is covered on the procedures section of the URL you noted in your earlier e-mail.
           
          We have also been experimenting with working two stations at a time that speeds up the number of contacts in the hour.  In this case the format is:
           
          VK2FZ/26 VK2AWD/RR VK7MO
           
          This means VK7MO transmitting and giving a 26 report to VK2FZ and RRR to VK2AWD.  There is a problem if people have long call signs as the maximum letters you can use is 26.
           
          Good luck with your Random hour.
           
          Regards Rex
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 6:58 AM
          Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] FW: Random Hour - calling freq ops

          Bruce brings up an interesting point. If two are sending single tones or multitones as you pointed out, any message absent of both calls, it could get confusing. Of course if you were expecting Rpts and got RRR or 73 you would know to ignore that. But if you were sending reports, rrr’s or 73’s it could be very difficult to determine if it is the station you’re working. If you use single tones the DF will change with each message.  But when we qsy up or down, there in no guarantee we will not end up on the same frequency as another qso so there is really no “perfect” arrangement.

           

          So your scheme of adding a call to the RRR or R26 ( WA5UFH RRR WA5UFH RRR OR WA5UFH R26 WA5UFH R26) might be the solution. I wonder what others think? You know, working Unassisted is not easy, but rewarding… For me, if I know there is another qso I am hearing, I might try the Call Rpt scheme but if I have gotten BC’s and Rpts without hearing anything else, I might continue with single tones.

           

          I also read the note from Andy referring to his thoughts on QSY. In my opinion the calling station sets the qso frequency. If we have stations calling both ways, we should all retain the skills for qsy and simplex operations. So I hope we see the use of both methods, sometimes a little flexibility is nice, even with meteor scatter! So I will be making sure before I answer a CQ that he is not listening up or down the band.

           

          Bruce concerning the use of PJ for unassisted hour, I stay connected and monitor the activity. If I see a new station or one I need, I would change to assisted in a heartbeat to work a new grid or state.  I don’t see where it matters but to be truly unassisted in my view you would not post any information while calling CQ or monitoring for CQ’s. I see several thanking others for random contacts ect… and several have even asked process type questions and made comments relating to the activity. That seems to be part of the learning / training exercise and not taking away from the “Random Contacts”.

           

           

          Tip

           

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Bruce Brackin [mailto:bbrackin@...]
          Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 10:19 AM
          To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] FW: Random Hour - calling freq ops

           

          Tip - got your post and clip from Rex after I sent mine.  Would seem the
          use of simplex on calling freq for the hour would be FB as any qrm would
          be unintentional and we would all understand - geometry would take care
          of most problems. 

          Should be no problem for the BC and BC/RPT but depending on where you
          and partner are in message sequence, I see a potential problem with the
          R26/27, RRR and 73's messages - i.e. who is sending to who? - could get
          real confusing.  Fix could be adding call (mine or theirs?) to these
          messages and use MT's?

          Also, are most dropping off-line for the hour?  I do.

          Bruce, KD5IUG


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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        • Mike Hasselbeck
          During my recent grid expeditions, I ve had the opportunity to copy as many as three stations calling me more or less simultaneously. This has happened more
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 8, 2003
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            During my recent grid expeditions, I've had the opportunity to copy as
            many as three stations calling me more or less simultaneously. This has
            happened more often than you'd imagine and every once in a while I'll copy
            two stations during the same sequence (never on the same ping though!).
            Although this keeps me rivited to the computer, it's pretty clear who is
            who based on the DF. The other guys only hear one of me, but of course I
            can only work one of them at a time. If an R26 or RRR arrives on the
            other end it can only be valid if it makes sense in the sequence. For
            example, the other guy had to copy my call, his call, report, and have
            sent a couple of R26's for an RRR heard from me to have any meaning. So I
            don't think it's necessary to add extra info to the messages or eliminate
            ST's -- the DF and the message sequence take care of any confusion.

            The only opportunity for ambiguity I can think of is a situation where I
            give up on a QSO and try to work the next guy. I proceed through the
            second QSO attempt and start sending RRR, for example, and the first guy
            might think it's meant for him. I know the score, however, and clear it
            up by email later.

            Mike WB2FKO
          • Rex Moncur
            Hi Mike and all I agree with Mike s experience on grid expedition where all other stations will be trying to work the rare grid square station. The problem on
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 8, 2003
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              Hi Mike and all
               
              I agree with Mike's experience on grid expedition where all other stations will be trying to work the rare grid square station.  The problem on activity sessions (your random hour) is that there can be more than one QSO going on and thus the single tones from another QSO can cause confusion. Thus we adopt the rule that for activity sessions the TXing station my always identify themselves with their call sign.
               
              For info we have done some experiments with close spaced stations to look at the footprint size and this seems to be no more than about 10 km on 6 meters and I would suspect proportionally smaller on two meters.  A book on "Meteor Burst Communication" by Schanker indicates that the footprint is about 5km by 25 km long. While he does not say I assume this is for around 40 MHz.
               
              Regards Rex, VK7MO
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 7:52 AM
              Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] FW: Random Hour - calling freq ops

              During my recent grid expeditions, I've had the opportunity to copy as
              many as three stations calling me more or less simultaneously.  This has
              happened more often than you'd imagine and every once in a while I'll copy
              two stations during the same sequence (never on the same ping though!).
              Although this keeps me rivited to the computer, it's pretty clear who is
              who based on the DF. The other guys only hear one of me, but of course I
              can only work one of them at a time.  If an R26 or RRR arrives on the
              other end it can only be valid if it makes sense in the sequence.  For
              example, the other guy had to copy my call, his call, report, and have
              sent a couple of R26's for an RRR heard from me to have any meaning.  So I
              don't think it's necessary to add extra info to the messages or eliminate
              ST's -- the DF and the message sequence take care of any confusion.

              The only opportunity for ambiguity I can think of is a situation where I
              give up on a QSO and try to work the next guy.  I proceed through the
              second QSO attempt and start sending RRR, for example, and the first guy
              might think it's meant for him.  I know the score, however, and clear it
              up by email later.

              Mike WB2FKO


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