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Tower Up - Question

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  • jfelts13
    Here is a question for you guys I would like to know what you think. I got my lil 20ft tower up, on a mast 5 feet above the top of the tower is my 9 el 2m
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 19, 2005
      Here is a question for you guys I would like to know what you think.
      I got my lil 20ft tower up, on a mast 5 feet above the top of the
      tower is my 9 el 2m yagi(25 ft)(fed with LMR-400). The tower sits on
      a base which has 4 - 5ft spikes pounded into the ground to hold it.
      At the eve of the roof I have a house bracket on 2 legs. It seems
      pretty sturdy to me. About the top 6-7 feet of the tower stick above
      the eve and I'm not scared to climb it to the tower top, feels secure
      to me.

      Would I be pushing it to put a 3 el 6m yagi at the top of the tower,
      or a Moxon beam?? Or Would that be too much of a wind load for good
      oh windy South Dakota??

      I'm mainly interested in working WSJT on 2m but would like to do a
      lil 6m also. My Par OA-50 works fine during openings, but try
      running 5 watts WSJT on 6m with it. I've managed 3 contacts that way
      but need a tad bit of gain. No I don't want anymore power on 6m. Its
      bad enough that I cheat 160 watts on 2m as it is, 38years strictly
      QRPER ! ! ! Refuse to change. hi

      In the Photo area I made a file, you can see 3 pictures of my pitiful
      setup up under NR5A. hi

      Live with it? Worry about it, or don't put up a 6m antenna there??

      Comments, sugguestions please.

      Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota - DN84lc
    • Larry
      Jerry, My 2 cents worth: You swinging around at the top of the tower is more load than 75 MPH winds on a little 6 meter 3 element yagi. I would not try to put
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 19, 2005
        Jerry,

        My 2 cents worth:

        You swinging around at the top of the tower is more load than 75 MPH winds on a little 6 meter 3 element yagi. I would not try to put a 7 element long boom up there, but with what you propose, I'd be cofident that the roof would blow off the house before you lost the tower.

        73, Larry
        Larry - W7IUV
        DN07dg
        http://w7iuv.com


        jfelts13 wrote:
        Here is a question for you guys I would like to know what you think.
        I got my lil 20ft tower up, on a mast 5 feet above the top of the
        tower is my 9 el 2m yagi(25 ft)(fed with LMR-400). The tower sits on
        a base which has 4 - 5ft spikes pounded into the ground to hold it.
        At the eve of the roof I have a house bracket on 2 legs. It seems
        pretty sturdy to me. About the top 6-7 feet  of the tower stick above
        the eve and I'm not scared to climb it to the tower top, feels secure
        to me.

        Would I be pushing it to put a 3 el 6m yagi at the top of the tower,
        or a Moxon beam?? Or Would that be too much of a wind load for good
        oh windy South Dakota??

        I'm mainly interested in working WSJT on 2m but would like to do a
        lil 6m also. My Par  OA-50 works fine during openings, but try
        running 5 watts WSJT on 6m with it. I've managed 3 contacts that way
        but need a tad bit of gain. No I don't want anymore power on 6m. Its
        bad enough that I cheat 160 watts on 2m as it is, 38years strictly
        QRPER ! ! ! Refuse to change. hi

        In the Photo area I made a file, you can see 3 pictures of my pitiful
        setup up under NR5A. hi

        Live with it? Worry about it, or don't put up a 6m antenna there??

        Comments, sugguestions please.

        Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota - DN84lc




      • Russ K2TXB
        Hi Jerry. You didn t mention what kind of a tower it is, and I did not want to take time to go scouting around in files area to find your pictures, but unless
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 19, 2005
          Hi Jerry. You didn't mention what kind of a tower it is, and I did not want
          to take time to go scouting around in files area to find your pictures, but
          unless it is a very flimsy tower I do not see any problem with putting a 3
          element six meter beam on the tower too. The six meter antenna should be
          closest to the bottom because it has more wind load. The two meter antenna
          should be at least 6 feet above the six, but if you cannot do that, closer
          will work - just not as well.

          You also did not mention how the house bracket is secured to the wall. When
          I do that, I go inside the attic and put a 2x4 or 2x6 across two or three of
          the house studs, on the inside. For a big tower I use a 4x4. Then I use
          long carrige bolts, or threaded rod, about 3/8 or 1/2 inch diameter, and use
          large washers to prevent heads from pulling through the wood. If you simply
          screw the house bracket into the studs using lag screws, the action of wind
          on the tower will eventually loosen them up and they can pull out on you!
          Using toggle bolts through the wall to the inside of the plywood siding is
          even worse.

          But as long as your house bracket is well anchored you should have no
          problem with a six and two meter beam on the same tower.

          Hope this helps,

          73, Russ K2TXB

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jfelts13
          > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:35 PM
          > To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [wsjtgroup] Tower Up - Question
          >
          > Here is a question for you guys I would like to know what you think.
          > I got my lil 20ft tower up, on a mast 5 feet above the top of
          > the tower is my 9 el 2m yagi(25 ft)(fed with LMR-400). The
          > tower sits on a base which has 4 - 5ft spikes pounded into
          > the ground to hold it.
          > At the eve of the roof I have a house bracket on 2 legs. It
          > seems pretty sturdy to me. About the top 6-7 feet of the
          > tower stick above the eve and I'm not scared to climb it to
          > the tower top, feels secure to me.
          >
          > Would I be pushing it to put a 3 el 6m yagi at the top of the
          > tower, or a Moxon beam?? Or Would that be too much of a wind
          > load for good oh windy South Dakota??
          >
          > I'm mainly interested in working WSJT on 2m but would like to
          > do a lil 6m also. My Par OA-50 works fine during openings,
          > but try running 5 watts WSJT on 6m with it. I've managed 3
          > contacts that way but need a tad bit of gain. No I don't want
          > anymore power on 6m. Its bad enough that I cheat 160 watts on
          > 2m as it is, 38years strictly QRPER ! ! ! Refuse to change. hi
          >
          > In the Photo area I made a file, you can see 3 pictures of my
          > pitiful setup up under NR5A. hi
          >
          > Live with it? Worry about it, or don't put up a 6m antenna there??
          >
          > Comments, sugguestions please.
          >
          > Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota - DN84lc
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • jay
          Hi Jerry - add my 2 cents worth - Russ is on the money with the house bracket - after having a few lag bolts pull out in my time, I also went to the
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 19, 2005
            Hi Jerry - add my 2 cents worth - Russ is on the money with the house bracket - after having a few lag bolts pull out in my time, I also went to the thru-bolted arrangement with a plate inside the house bridging several of the upright 2x4's to spread the load. Another GREAT advantage of a house bracket (even if you don't really need it) - the tower AND all the things attached to it (rotor, antennas) are generally covered by your Homeowners insurance - if the tower is not connected to the house, they are NOT covered !
            Check the ARRL Antenna Book - they have a specific section on stacking VHF beams with spacing recommendations. If you want a copy of that section, e-mail me and I will send it to you. My experience is 6 feet is plenty between a 6 and 2 m beam, have spaced them 4 feet with no noticeable effects. Current set-up here is 2m yagi 6 feet above the 6m yagi, 432 yagi 4 feet above the 2m antenna. Works FB.
              Anyhow, C u on the rox - Jay K2OVS FN30
             
             
            Hi Jerry. You didn't mention what kind of a tower it is, and I did not want
            to take time to go scouting around in files area to find your pictures, but
            unless it is a very flimsy tower I do not see any problem with putting a 3
            element six meter beam on the tower too.  The six meter antenna should be
            closest to the bottom because it has more wind load.  The two meter antenna
            should be at least 6 feet above the six, but if you cannot do that, closer
            will work - just not as well.

            You also did not mention how the house bracket is secured to the wall.  When
            I do that, I go inside the attic and put a 2x4 or 2x6 across two or three of
            the house studs, on the inside.  For a big tower I use a 4x4.  Then I use
            long carriage bolts, or threaded rod, about 3/8 or 1/2 inch diameter, and use
            large washers to prevent heads from pulling through the wood.  If you simply
            screw the house bracket into the studs using lag screws, the action of wind
            on the tower will eventually loosen them up and they can pull out on you!
            Using toggle bolts through the wall to the inside of the plywood siding is
            even worse.

            But as long as your house bracket is well anchored you should have no
            problem with a six and two meter beam on the same tower.

            Hope this helps,

            73, Russ K2TXB

            > -----Original Message-----
            >
            From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jfelts13
            > Sent:
            Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:35 PM
            > To:
            href="mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com">wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
            >
            Subject: [wsjtgroup] Tower Up - Question
            >
            > Here is a question for
            you guys I would like to know what you think.
            > I got my lil 20ft tower
            up, on a mast 5 feet above the top of
            > the tower is my 9 el 2m yagi(25
            ft)(fed with LMR-400). The
            > tower sits on a base which has 4 - 5ft
            spikes pounded into
            > the ground to hold it.
            > At the eve of the
            roof I have a house bracket on 2 legs. It
            > seems pretty sturdy to me.
            About the top 6-7 feet  of the
            > tower stick above the eve and I'm
            not scared to climb it to
            > the tower top, feels secure to me.
            >
            > Would I be pushing it to put a 3 el 6m yagi at the top of the
            >
            tower, or a Moxon beam?? Or Would that be too much of a wind
            > load for
            good oh windy South Dakota??
            >
            > I'm mainly interested in working
            WSJT on 2m but would like to
            > do a lil 6m also. My Par  OA-50 works
            fine during openings,
            > but try running 5 watts WSJT on 6m with it. I've
            managed 3
            > contacts that way but need a tad bit of gain. No I don't want
            > anymore power on 6m. Its bad enough that I cheat 160 watts on
            >
            2m as it is, 38years strictly QRPER ! ! ! Refuse to change. hi
            >
            >
            In the Photo area I made a file, you can see 3 pictures of my
            > pitiful
            setup up under NR5A. hi
            >
            > Live with it? Worry about it, or don't
            put up a 6m antenna there??
            >
            > Comments, suggestions
            please.
            >
            > Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota - DN84lc
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            href="http://www.ykc.com/wa5ufh/Rally/NAHSMS.htm">http://www.ykc.com/wa5ufh/Rally/NAHSMS.htm
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            >
            >

            > Yahoo! Groups Links
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            >
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            >





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          • Randy Tipton
            Jerry I looked at your pictures, appears that you re in a trailer house and you might not be able to secure the house bracket as is being described. I would
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 19, 2005
              Jerry I looked at your pictures, appears that you're in a trailer house and
              you might not be able to secure the house bracket as is being described.

              I would not be too concerned since your only two tower sections high and
              anchored 4 ft in the ground. The two meter antenna is small and adding a
              small 3 element 50MHz beam doesn't add a significant wind load. If you are
              uncomfortable with it add three guy wires.

              Many stations have more than 20 ft above the elevation of the top guy wires
              with larger antennas & heavier masts etc.

              Just my two cents...

              GL
              Tip




              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of jfelts13
              > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:35 PM
              > To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [wsjtgroup] Tower Up - Question
              >
              > Here is a question for you guys I would like to know what you think.
              > I got my lil 20ft tower up, on a mast 5 feet above the top of the
              > tower is my 9 el 2m yagi(25 ft)(fed with LMR-400). The tower sits on
              > a base which has 4 - 5ft spikes pounded into the ground to hold it.
              > At the eve of the roof I have a house bracket on 2 legs. It seems
              > pretty sturdy to me. About the top 6-7 feet of the tower stick above
              > the eve and I'm not scared to climb it to the tower top, feels secure
              > to me.
              >
              > Would I be pushing it to put a 3 el 6m yagi at the top of the tower,
              > or a Moxon beam?? Or Would that be too much of a wind load for good
              > oh windy South Dakota??
              >
              > I'm mainly interested in working WSJT on 2m but would like to do a
              > lil 6m also. My Par OA-50 works fine during openings, but try
              > running 5 watts WSJT on 6m with it. I've managed 3 contacts that way
              > but need a tad bit of gain. No I don't want anymore power on 6m. Its
              > bad enough that I cheat 160 watts on 2m as it is, 38years strictly
              > QRPER ! ! ! Refuse to change. hi
              >
              > In the Photo area I made a file, you can see 3 pictures of my pitiful
              > setup up under NR5A. hi
              >
              > Live with it? Worry about it, or don't put up a 6m antenna there??
              >
              > Comments, sugguestions please.
              >
              > Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota - DN84lc
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
              > wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Activity Periods http://www.ykc.com/wa5ufh/
              > NAHSMS Contest Page http://www.ykc.com/wa5ufh/Rally/NAHSMS.htm
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Lee Kemp
              I went looking for your pic of the tower were are they? And on what page did you put them on yahoo group or what? jfelts13 wrote:Here is
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 19, 2005
                I went looking for your pic of the tower were are they?  And on what page did you put them on yahoo group or what?

                jfelts13 <nr5a@...> wrote:
                Here is a question for you guys I would like to know what you think.
                I got my lil 20ft tower up, on a mast 5 feet above the top of the
                tower is my 9 el 2m yagi(25 ft)(fed with LMR-400). The tower sits on
                a base which has 4 - 5ft spikes pounded into the ground to hold it.
                At the eve of the roof I have a house bracket on 2 legs. It seems
                pretty sturdy to me. About the top 6-7 feet  of the tower stick above
                the eve and I'm not scared to climb it to the tower top, feels secure
                to me.

                Would I be pushing it to put a 3 el 6m yagi at the top of the tower,
                or a Moxon beam?? Or Would that be too much of a wind load for good
                oh windy South Dakota??

                I'm mainly interested in working WSJT on 2m but would like to do a
                lil 6m also. My Par  OA-50 works fine during openings, but try
                running 5 watts WSJT on 6m with it. I've managed 3 contacts that way
                but need a tad bit of gain. No I don't want anymore power on 6m. Its
                bad enough that I cheat 160 watts on 2m as it is, 38years strictly
                QRPER ! ! ! Refuse to change. hi

                In the Photo area I made a file, you can see 3 pictures of my pitiful
                setup up under NR5A. hi

                Live with it? Worry about it, or don't put up a 6m antenna there??

                Comments, sugguestions please.

                Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota - DN84lc






                Lee
                N5TIF
                SWOT#3319
                6M VUCC
                2M VUCC


                Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
              • Russ K2TXB
                I looked at the pics now too. Yes, it will be hard to put a plate inside the house with that arrangement. I was thinking about if the tower was at the end of
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 19, 2005
                  I looked at the pics now too. Yes, it will be hard to put a plate inside
                  the house with that arrangement. I was thinking about if the tower was at
                  the end of the house, rather than at the side. In this case I would be very
                  watchful as to the tightness of the lag screws - especially after any heavy
                  winds and rain. And I would be very careful to seal the lag heads and the
                  holes to prevent water from getting in and rotting the wood.

                  However as Tip says, it is really a very small installation and should hold
                  up pretty well. I might be tempted to add a single guy wire from near the
                  top, towards the house, anchoring it into the roof, or going clear across
                  the house to a ground anchor. That way the tower could not pull back from
                  the house even if the lags came loose.

                  As near as I can tell from the pictures, I guess this is an old Rohn #6
                  tower - but it might be some other brand I have never seen before. Anyway
                  it looks plenty sturdy for the job.

                  Go for it - and have fun with both six and two meter HSMS!

                  73, Russ K2TXB

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randy Tipton
                  > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:56 PM
                  > To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] Tower Up - Question
                  >
                  >
                  > Jerry I looked at your pictures, appears that you're in a
                  > trailer house and you might not be able to secure the house
                  > bracket as is being described.
                  >
                  > I would not be too concerned since your only two tower
                  > sections high and anchored 4 ft in the ground. The two meter
                  > antenna is small and adding a small 3 element 50MHz beam
                  > doesn't add a significant wind load. If you are uncomfortable
                  > with it add three guy wires.
                  >
                  > Many stations have more than 20 ft above the elevation of the
                  > top guy wires with larger antennas & heavier masts etc.
                  >
                  > Just my two cents...
                  >
                  > GL
                  > Tip
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > > Behalf Of jfelts13
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:35 PM
                  > > To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [wsjtgroup] Tower Up - Question
                  > >
                  > > Here is a question for you guys I would like to know what you think.
                  > > I got my lil 20ft tower up, on a mast 5 feet above the top of the
                  > > tower is my 9 el 2m yagi(25 ft)(fed with LMR-400). The
                  > tower sits on a
                  > > base which has 4 - 5ft spikes pounded into the ground to hold it.
                  > > At the eve of the roof I have a house bracket on 2 legs. It seems
                  > > pretty sturdy to me. About the top 6-7 feet of the tower
                  > stick above
                  > > the eve and I'm not scared to climb it to the tower top,
                  > feels secure
                  > > to me.
                  > >
                  > > Would I be pushing it to put a 3 el 6m yagi at the top of
                  > the tower,
                  > > or a Moxon beam?? Or Would that be too much of a wind load
                  > for good oh
                  > > windy South Dakota??
                  > >
                  > > I'm mainly interested in working WSJT on 2m but would like
                  > to do a lil
                  > > 6m also. My Par OA-50 works fine during openings, but try
                  > running 5
                  > > watts WSJT on 6m with it. I've managed 3 contacts that way
                  > but need a
                  > > tad bit of gain. No I don't want anymore power on 6m. Its
                  > bad enough
                  > > that I cheat 160 watts on 2m as it is, 38years strictly QRPER ! ! !
                  > > Refuse to change. hi
                  > >
                  > > In the Photo area I made a file, you can see 3 pictures of
                  > my pitiful
                  > > setup up under NR5A. hi
                  > >
                  > > Live with it? Worry about it, or don't put up a 6m antenna there??
                  > >
                  > > Comments, sugguestions please.
                  > >
                  > > Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota - DN84lc
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