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Time for JT65/JT6M Tropo/TEP Terrestrial calling freqs?

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  • Bruce Brackin
    With the increased activity around WSJT and watching some recent tropo openings, I wonder if it is time to consider a given set of calling frequencies for
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 3, 2005
      With the increased activity around WSJT and watching some recent tropo
      openings, I wonder if it is time to consider a given set of calling
      frequencies for terrestrial weak (or maybe not so weak) signal work
      apart from standard m/s ones for those wanting to focus on and run
      tropo? We had some weak tropo during RH Saturday here and you could
      hear solid JT6M. Wasn't too bad here and I still had a couple of 2m
      pings come through from where the band wasn't trying to open so that is
      not meant as a complaint. Same on 6m across the southeastern states
      Sunday morning with several working or trying to work on 50.260.

      My suggestion is to create a set of tropo calling frequencies slightly
      towards the SSB part of each band - say 50.250 and 144.150. Is either
      50.250 or 144.150 staked out and actually used by anyone already?
      Digital on Six shows 50.250 as a EME calling freq but I've yet to see it
      used on the PJ EME page. If so, drop 5 or 10 KHz or go up. We would
      also strongly encourage the use of U/D calling method but stay clear of
      50.260 and 144.140 if band(s) appears to be open. That would preserve
      the m/s frequencies for those not in the footprint of a tropo/TEP
      opening. If a band is open and several are calling, it can be hard
      enough to separate them. Granted, the band(s) wont be open in all
      directions so a swing of the beam may favor one over another. Also,
      what about 222 and 432?

      I would also really like to see a separate weak signal calling frequency
      for 6m TEP. The band may open between the southern part of the US and
      Mexico to South America each spring and fall and if someone were to
      periodically call with JT65 or JT6M (I still like JT44 for this, SRI
      Joe!) it could be as good or better than a beacon because you would know
      "someone is home". I know some/most of South America is actually east
      of many in the US/Mexico but maybe use the old "southern station goes
      first" guidance for convention and keep things simple and not have to
      consult a map. EU and Africa tend to have better and more consistent
      TEP each year because of the geomagnetic equator up swing (JA's to VK
      and ZL's also). Have they established anything? I would like to know
      if they have and someone can possibly share that.

      In summary, the plus side would be a given frequency for a band to watch
      for those wishing to operate terrestrial weak signal modes - either
      normal or enhanced tropo. Experiences a couple of summers ago showed
      you could easily work weak signal single or double hop 6m Es and never
      hear a beacon or SSB. Or you could work them well before and long after
      CW and SSB came and went. My guess is there are also many weak TEP
      openings that are totally missed. The only down side would be some
      possible dilution of signals on the traditional m/s calling frequencies.

      It would be nice to get some things discussed and settled during the
      bottom of solar cycle and be ready for the upturn (eternal optimist!) if
      there is sufficient interest and consensus. While many take the
      internet, prop loggers and chat pages for granted, many don't have any
      or only limited internet access. If calling freqs were well
      established, one would know where to monitor when conditions or season
      dictates for the wonderful weak signal modes K1JT has developed.

      Your turn and I am wide open - Bruce, N5SIX
    • Terry Hosack
      Hi Bruce, I like the idea of call frequencies for tropo JT65 or JT6M , there are so many grids within 500 miles that could be worked using these modes. And
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 3, 2005
        Hi Bruce,

        I like the idea of call frequencies for tropo JT65 or JT6M , there
        are so many grids within 500 miles that could be worked using these
        modes. And if the band opens up even further..... I don't know if a
        single call frequency would be adequate, maybe a main one and an
        alternate frequency on each band? Keep the ideas coming.......

        73's
        Terry
        WA3LTB
        EN92ta
      • Randy Tipton
        Bruce, I agree and would support calling frequencies for JT6M / JT44 / JT65 for non-meteor scatter contacts. This would be especially helpful for six meters as
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
          Bruce, I agree and would support calling frequencies for JT6M / JT44 / JT65
          for non-meteor scatter contacts. This would be especially helpful for six
          meters as I can't tell you how many times we sit here just verily able to
          hear or tell the dx station is talking but often times too weak to work
          here. Maybe when we hear east coast stations working EU stations but don't
          hear them here a JT44 or JT6M contact might be possible?

          If a recommended frequency is decided on, I will post it on the webpage for
          the DOS and WSJTGROUPS.

          Leaving Friday for Durango and Silverton Colorado where we can cool off.

          Tip


                         


          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Bruce Brackin
          > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:39 AM
          > To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [wsjtgroup] Time for JT65/JT6M Tropo/TEP Terrestrial calling
          > freqs?
          >
          > With the increased activity around WSJT and watching some recent tropo
          > openings, I wonder if it is time to consider a given set of calling
          > frequencies for terrestrial weak (or maybe not so weak) signal work
          > apart from standard m/s ones for those wanting to focus on and run
          > tropo? We had some weak tropo during RH Saturday here and you could
          > hear solid JT6M. Wasn't too bad here and I still had a couple of 2m
          > pings come through from where the band wasn't trying to open so that is
          > not meant as a complaint. Same on 6m across the southeastern states
          > Sunday morning with several working or trying to work on 50.260.
          >
          > My suggestion is to create a set of tropo calling frequencies slightly
          > towards the SSB part of each band - say 50.250 and 144.150. Is either
          > 50.250 or 144.150 staked out and actually used by anyone already?
          > Digital on Six shows 50.250 as a EME calling freq but I've yet to see it
          > used on the PJ EME page. If so, drop 5 or 10 KHz or go up. We would
          > also strongly encourage the use of U/D calling method but stay clear of
          > 50.260 and 144.140 if band(s) appears to be open. That would preserve
          > the m/s frequencies for those not in the footprint of a tropo/TEP
          > opening. If a band is open and several are calling, it can be hard
          > enough to separate them. Granted, the band(s) wont be open in all
          > directions so a swing of the beam may favor one over another. Also,
          > what about 222 and 432?
          >
          > I would also really like to see a separate weak signal calling frequency
          > for 6m TEP. The band may open between the southern part of the US and
          > Mexico to South America each spring and fall and if someone were to
          > periodically call with JT65 or JT6M (I still like JT44 for this, SRI
          > Joe!) it could be as good or better than a beacon because you would know
          > "someone is home". I know some/most of South America is actually east
          > of many in the US/Mexico but maybe use the old "southern station goes
          > first" guidance for convention and keep things simple and not have to
          > consult a map. EU and Africa tend to have better and more consistent
          > TEP each year because of the geomagnetic equator up swing (JA's to VK
          > and ZL's also). Have they established anything? I would like to know
          > if they have and someone can possibly share that.
          >
          > In summary, the plus side would be a given frequency for a band to watch
          > for those wishing to operate terrestrial weak signal modes - either
          > normal or enhanced tropo. Experiences a couple of summers ago showed
          > you could easily work weak signal single or double hop 6m Es and never
          > hear a beacon or SSB. Or you could work them well before and long after
          > CW and SSB came and went. My guess is there are also many weak TEP
          > openings that are totally missed. The only down side would be some
          > possible dilution of signals on the traditional m/s calling frequencies.
          >
          > It would be nice to get some things discussed and settled during the
          > bottom of solar cycle and be ready for the upturn (eternal optimist!) if
          > there is sufficient interest and consensus. While many take the
          > internet, prop loggers and chat pages for granted, many don't have any
          > or only limited internet access. If calling freqs were well
          > established, one would know where to monitor when conditions or season
          > dictates for the wonderful weak signal modes K1JT has developed.
          >
          > Your turn and I am wide open - Bruce, N5SIX
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
          > wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Activity Periods http://www.ykc.com/wa5ufh/
          > NAHSMS Contest Page http://www.ykc.com/wa5ufh/Rally/NAHSMS.htm
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Joe - WD0M
          Enjoy Durango and Silverton - Fall colors are at a peak right now - we live in Pagosa Springs, just east of Durango, but we re off to Nevada to see my wife s
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
            Enjoy Durango and Silverton - Fall colors are
            at a peak right now - we live in Pagosa Springs,
            just east of Durango, but we're off to Nevada to
            see my wife's mom, who flew down from Alaska to
            visit her son who lives in Las Vegas, or we'd love to have you stop by.

            73,
            Joe
            WDØM

            At 01:05 PM 10/5/2005, you wrote:

            >Leaving Friday for Durango and Silverton Colorado where we can cool off.
            >
            >Tip
          • john flinn
            I would also support separate freqs for JT6M and JT65 modes. John W9SE ... From: Randy Tipton To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
              I would also support separate freqs for JT6M and JT65 modes.
              John W9SE
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:05 PM
              Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] Time for JT65/JT6M Tropo/TEP Terrestrial calling freqs?



              Bruce, I agree and would support calling frequencies for JT6M / JT44 / JT65
              for non-meteor scatter contacts. This would be especially helpful for six
              meters as I can't tell you how many times we sit here just verily able to
              hear or tell the dx station is talking but often times too weak to work
              here. Maybe when we hear east coast stations working EU stations but don't
              hear them here a JT44 or JT6M contact might be possible? 

              If a recommended frequency is decided on, I will post it on the webpage for
              the DOS and WSJTGROUPS.

              Leaving Friday for Durango and Silverton Colorado where we can cool off.

              Tip


                             


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Bruce Brackin
              > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:39 AM
              > To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [wsjtgroup] Time for JT65/JT6M Tropo/TEP Terrestrial calling
              > freqs?
              >
              > With the increased activity around WSJT and watching some recent tropo
              > openings, I wonder if it is time to consider a given set of calling
              > frequencies for terrestrial weak (or maybe not so weak) signal work
              > apart from standard m/s ones for those wanting to focus on and run
              > tropo?  We had some weak tropo during RH Saturday here and you could
              > hear solid JT6M.  Wasn't too bad here and I still had a couple of 2m
              > pings come through from where the band wasn't trying to open so that is
              > not meant as a complaint.  Same on 6m across the southeastern states
              > Sunday morning with several working or trying to work on 50.260.
              >
              > My suggestion is to create a set of tropo calling frequencies slightly
              > towards the SSB part of each band - say 50.250 and 144.150.  Is either
              > 50.250 or 144.150 staked out and actually used by anyone already?
              > Digital on Six shows 50.250 as a EME calling freq but I've yet to see it
              > used on the PJ EME page. If so, drop 5 or 10 KHz or go up.  We would
              > also strongly encourage the use of U/D calling method but stay clear of
              > 50.260 and 144.140 if band(s) appears to be open.  That would preserve
              > the m/s frequencies for those not in the footprint of a tropo/TEP
              > opening. If a band is open and several are calling, it can be hard
              > enough to separate them.  Granted, the band(s) wont be open in all
              > directions so a swing of the beam may favor one over another.  Also,
              > what about 222 and 432?
              >
              > I would also really like to see a separate weak signal calling frequency
              > for 6m TEP.  The band may open between the southern part of the US and
              > Mexico to South America each spring and fall and if someone were to
              > periodically call with JT65 or JT6M (I still like JT44 for this, SRI
              > Joe!) it could be as good or better than a beacon because you would know
              > "someone is home".  I know some/most of South America is actually east
              > of many in the US/Mexico but maybe use the old "southern station goes
              > first" guidance for convention and keep things simple and not have to
              > consult a map.  EU and Africa tend to have better and more consistent
              > TEP each year because of the geomagnetic equator up swing (JA's to VK
              > and ZL's also).  Have they established anything?  I would like to know
              > if they have and someone can possibly share that.
              >
              > In summary, the plus side would be a given frequency for a band to watch
              > for those wishing to operate terrestrial weak signal modes - either
              > normal or enhanced tropo.  Experiences a couple of summers ago showed
              > you could easily work weak signal single or double hop 6m Es and never
              > hear a beacon or SSB.  Or you could work them well before and long after
              > CW and SSB came and went.  My guess is there are also many weak TEP
              > openings that are totally missed.  The only down side would be some
              > possible dilution of signals on the traditional m/s calling frequencies.
              >
              > It would be nice to get some things discussed and settled during the
              > bottom of solar cycle and be ready for the upturn (eternal optimist!) if
              > there is sufficient interest and consensus.  While many take the
              > internet, prop loggers and chat pages for granted, many don't have any
              > or only limited internet access.  If calling freqs were well
              > established, one would know where to monitor when conditions or season
              > dictates for the wonderful weak signal modes K1JT has developed.
              >
              > Your turn and I am wide open - Bruce, N5SIX
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
              > wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Activity Periods http://www.ykc.com/wa5ufh/
              > NAHSMS Contest Page http://www.ykc.com/wa5ufh/Rally/NAHSMS.htm
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



            • Philip
              Bruce, I have been following the thread you started on this subject and agree too. Here in Europe we have used the following frequencies for some time and some
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
                Bruce,

                I have been following the thread you started on this subject and
                agree too. Here in Europe we have used the following frequencies for
                some time and some of them are mentioned specifically in our band
                plans too. I mention them now to you, in case it would be worthwhile
                having some US/European compatability so that we might hear and work
                each other...hi.

                50.230 MHz JT6M

                50.250 MHz PSK31

                50.255 MHz JT44/65

                144.138 MHz PSK31

                144.144 MHz JT44/65

                Please have a look at my website vHF section for more information.

                http://www.qsl.net/g0isw

                Regards Philip G0ISW
              • Andy GD0TEP
                ... That s strange... all the JT65 QSOs I ve had have been between 50.190 to 50.210, some have been split with my RX down around 50.040 Andy http://gd0tep.com
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
                  >>>50.255 MHz JT44/65

                  That's strange... all the JT65 QSOs I've had have been between 50.190 to
                  50.210, some have been split with my RX down around 50.040

                  Andy
                  http://gd0tep.com
                • Bruce Brackin
                  Andy, John, Philip, Terry and Tip - TNX for the input. Andy wrote: all the JT65 QSOs I ve had have been between 50.190 to 50.210, some have been split with
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
                    Andy, John, Philip, Terry and Tip - TNX for the input.

                    Andy wrote: "all the JT65 QSOs I've had have been between 50.190 to
                    50.210, some have been split with my RX down around 50.040"

                    Andy, were these terrestrial? I've seen and tried some EME in these
                    ranges with JA's (if I remember correctly) that have to use the low end
                    of 50 for their band plan. In general there has been concern with WSJT
                    (or other digital modes) below about 50.240 or so here in US. It is
                    allowable but some have had complaints from other nearby SSB operators
                    and some ragchewers seem to hang out in the .250 to .280 range,
                    particularly in the northeastern part of the US.

                    I'll see what I can pull together on the various offical and unoffical
                    band plans for us and come up with a matrix of some type.

                    On Terry's, WA3LTB comment on working grids under 500 miles. At
                    mid-latitudes a 500 mile radius will contain over 100 grids. Depending
                    on location, some could of course be over water but that's still a bunch
                    of grids!

                    tnx - Bruce, N5SIX
                  • Bob Poortinga
                    ... Regarding 6m, this is a band that is 4 MHz wide and so little of it is actually used. During big band openings, I ve worked SSB phone all the way up to
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
                      Bruce Brackin <n5six@...> writes:

                      > My suggestion is to create a set of tropo calling frequencies slightly
                      > towards the SSB part of each band - say 50.250 and 144.150. Is either
                      > 50.250 or 144.150 staked out and actually used by anyone already?

                      Regarding 6m, this is a band that is 4 MHz wide and so little of it is
                      actually used. During "big" band openings, I've worked SSB phone all the
                      way up to 50.240. Additional "standard" frequencies that I have used
                      are: 50.260 and 50.270 - FSK441 calling freqs, 50.290 - PSK31 calling,
                      50.325 - SSTV calling, 50.400 AM calling. From 50.400 up to 50.800 is
                      wide open and the ARRL band plan says 50.600 - 50.800 is reserved for
                      non-voice modes (with 50.620 reserved as the packet calling frequency.)

                      The lower part of the band should be used by those who benefit most from
                      sporadic-E propagation. Since JT6M, JT44 and JT65 are tropo and not
                      dependent on Es, I feel calling frequencies for these modes should be up
                      somewhere above 50.600 with separate calling frequencies for each mode.
                      Off the top of head, how about 50.650 JT65, 50.700 JT6M and 50.750 JT44.
                      The only negative I see is that some stations may have narrow band antennas
                      tuned for the low part of the band.

                      73 de
                      --
                      Bob Poortinga K9SQL
                      Bloomington, Indiana US
                    • Russ K2TXB
                      Hi Bruce and all. I think a calling frequency for JT65 terrestrial work is a good idea. But I think it should be used in the same way we use 140 for HSMS -
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
                        Hi Bruce and all. I think a calling frequency for JT65 terrestrial work is a
                        good idea. But I think it should be used in the same way we use 140 for
                        HSMS - use an offset frequency. I guess in JT65 one could call CQ D35
                        K2TXB, and then give the grid or other report as a response to calls.

                        144.150 is used for the Packrats net in this area, but that is only one
                        night per week, for about an hour. But I think I have heard of nets out
                        west on 150 as well, many years ago. Maybe it would be better to use an odd
                        frequency. 144.144 sounds like a good idea to me.

                        I am somewhat surprised that there has been no calling frequency set up for
                        JT65 EME on 2 meters. I guess it is because most people use the loggers to
                        arrange contacts, but I'd sure like to see more truly random EME activity
                        too.

                        As I have said before, the problem we have in this country is that we should
                        never have put the 2 meter calling frequency on .200. .300 would have been
                        a much better choice. Now we are all squeezed down into less than 100 KHz,
                        for all digital modes and starting to stake out frequencies for each mode
                        and propagation type. There is not all that much spectrum available in that
                        range. Sooner or later we will start running into conflicts...

                        I'd like to see a concerted effort to move the SSB calling frequency to 300,
                        but when I proposed it a couple of years ago I did not get much interest.
                        In fact some comments I got were kinda testy! Hi.

                        Anyway those are my thoughts on the matter.

                        73, Russ K2TXB
                      • myron nolind
                        I, for one, like the idea of seperate freq s for tropo. Have worked serveral opennings with voice and have always tuned in looking for any digitial traffic.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 6, 2005
                          I, for one, like the idea of seperate freq's for
                          tropo. Have worked serveral opennings with voice and
                          have always tuned in looking for any digitial traffic.
                          Never found any and wondered if it was because of a
                          lack of signal or not on the correct frequency.
                          With voice if you hear on the calling freq then go
                          looking elswhere also.
                          Consider this a vote for 50.250 and 144.150.

                          73's KC0MLS

                          --- Bob Poortinga <bobp+yahoo@...> wrote:

                          > Bruce Brackin <n5six@...> writes:
                          >
                          > > My suggestion is to create a set of tropo calling
                          > frequencies slightly
                          > > towards the SSB part of each band - say 50.250 and
                          > 144.150. Is either
                          > > 50.250 or 144.150 staked out and actually used by
                          > anyone already?
                          >
                          > Regarding 6m, this is a band that is 4 MHz wide and
                          > so little of it is
                          > actually used. During "big" band openings, I've
                          > worked SSB phone all the
                          > way up to 50.240. Additional "standard" frequencies
                          > that I have used
                          > are: 50.260 and 50.270 - FSK441 calling freqs,
                          > 50.290 - PSK31 calling,
                          > 50.325 - SSTV calling, 50.400 AM calling. From
                          > 50.400 up to 50.800 is
                          > wide open and the ARRL band plan says 50.600 -
                          > 50.800 is reserved for
                          > non-voice modes (with 50.620 reserved as the packet
                          > calling frequency.)
                          >
                          > The lower part of the band should be used by those
                          > who benefit most from
                          > sporadic-E propagation. Since JT6M, JT44 and JT65
                          > are tropo and not
                          > dependent on Es, I feel calling frequencies for
                          > these modes should be up
                          > somewhere above 50.600 with separate calling
                          > frequencies for each mode.
                          > Off the top of head, how about 50.650 JT65, 50.700
                          > JT6M and 50.750 JT44.
                          > The only negative I see is that some stations may
                          > have narrow band antennas
                          > tuned for the low part of the band.
                          >
                          > 73 de
                          > --
                          > Bob Poortinga K9SQL
                          > Bloomington, Indiana US
                          >





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                        • Philip
                          Hi Andy & all, The key to frequencies does indeed appear to be whether the intention is for EME or Terrestrial use. The latest UK Band Plans found at
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 6, 2005
                            Hi Andy & all,

                            The key to frequencies does indeed appear to be whether the intention
                            is for EME or Terrestrial use.

                            The latest UK Band Plans found at
                            http://www.rsgb.org/bandplans/bandplans.pdf

                            specifically mention 50.255 for JT44 (believed Terrestrial use) 50.250
                            for PSK31 and 50.260-50.280 for FSK441.

                            The UK 2m bandplan mentions 144.150-144.160 for FAI and EME SSB use.

                            144.300 is our SSB calling frequency/centre of activity.

                            Hope that helps. Wouldn't it be great if we calling and listening for
                            Terrestrial qso's on the same frequencies either side of the Atlantic?

                            Philip G0ISW
                          • Olin Chamberlin
                            I not sure about going up in frequencies because I know of stations that hold round tables around 144.150 & 144.160. I would suggest 144.130 for JT65. After
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 9, 2005
                              I not sure about going up in frequencies because I know of stations that hold round tables around 144.150 & 144.160. I would suggest 144.130 for JT65. After all there is .130Mhz below the call freq. and only 060Mhz above until you are getting into other stations that stand by call freqs.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:38 AM
                              Subject: [wsjtgroup] Time for JT65/JT6M Tropo/TEP Terrestrial calling freqs?

                              With the increased activity around WSJT and watching some recent tropo
                              openings, I wonder if it is time to consider a given set of calling
                              frequencies for terrestrial weak (or maybe not so weak) signal work
                              apart from standard m/s ones for those wanting to focus on and run
                              tropo?  We had some weak tropo during RH Saturday here and you could
                              hear solid JT6M.  Wasn't too bad here and I still had a couple of 2m
                              pings come through from where the band wasn't trying to open so that is
                              not meant as a complaint.  Same on 6m across the southeastern states
                              Sunday morning with several working or trying to work on 50.260.

                              My suggestion is to create a set of tropo calling frequencies slightly
                              towards the SSB part of each band - say 50.250 and 144.150.  Is either
                              50.250 or 144.150 staked out and actually used by anyone already? 
                              Digital on Six shows 50.250 as a EME calling freq but I've yet to see it
                              used on the PJ EME page. If so, drop 5 or 10 KHz or go up.  We would
                              also strongly encourage the use of U/D calling method but stay clear of
                              50.260 and 144.140 if band(s) appears to be open.  That would preserve
                              the m/s frequencies for those not in the footprint of a tropo/TEP
                              opening. If a band is open and several are calling, it can be hard
                              enough to separate them.  Granted, the band(s) wont be open in all
                              directions so a swing of the beam may favor one over another.  Also,
                              what about 222 and 432?

                              I would also really like to see a separate weak signal calling frequency
                              for 6m TEP.  The band may open between the southern part of the US and
                              Mexico to South America each spring and fall and if someone were to
                              periodically call with JT65 or JT6M (I still like JT44 for this, SRI
                              Joe!) it could be as good or better than a beacon because you would know
                              "someone is home".  I know some/most of South America is actually east
                              of many in the US/Mexico but maybe use the old "southern station goes
                              first" guidance for convention and keep things simple and not have to
                              consult a map.  EU and Africa tend to have better and more consistent
                              TEP each year because of the geomagnetic equator up swing (JA's to VK
                              and ZL's also).  Have they established anything?  I would like to know
                              if they have and someone can possibly share that.

                              In summary, the plus side would be a given frequency for a band to watch
                              for those wishing to operate terrestrial weak signal modes - either
                              normal or enhanced tropo.  Experiences a couple of summers ago showed
                              you could easily work weak signal single or double hop 6m Es and never
                              hear a beacon or SSB.  Or you could work them well before and long after
                              CW and SSB came and went.  My guess is there are also many weak TEP
                              openings that are totally missed.  The only down side would be some
                              possible dilution of signals on the traditional m/s calling frequencies.

                              It would be nice to get some things discussed and settled during the
                              bottom of solar cycle and be ready for the upturn (eternal optimist!) if
                              there is sufficient interest and consensus.  While many take the
                              internet, prop loggers and chat pages for granted, many don't have any
                              or only limited internet access.  If calling freqs were well
                              established, one would know where to monitor when conditions or season
                              dictates for the wonderful weak signal modes K1JT has developed.

                              Your turn and I am wide open - Bruce, N5SIX


                            • Russ K2TXB
                              _____ From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Olin Chamberlin Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 5:13 PM To:
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 9, 2005

                                From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Olin Chamberlin
                                Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 5:13 PM
                                To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] Time for JT65/JT6M Tropo/TEP Terrestrial calling freqs?

                                >  I not sure about going up in frequencies because I know of stations that hold 
                                round
                                tables around 144.150 & 144.160. I would suggest 144.130 for JT65. 
                                After
                                all there is .130Mhz below the call freq. and only 060Mhz above until you 
                                are
                                getting into other stations that stand by call freqs.  
                                 
                                That's not quite accurate.  There are only 30 KHz below 144.130 - the rest is CW only by FCC rule.  As for roundtables, I hear one every day on 144.135, so we will not be able to avoid them going up or down.  And 10 KHz is not far enough from the FSK441 frequency in areas like here where there are close stations operating both modes.  Since the modes do not have the same sequencing, they will interfere with each other.  It's really too bad that 140 is the FSK441 frequency.  It would be nice to have one at .110 and the other at .170, giving 60 KHz separation, and each mode could work up and down from there.  I have already had the experience of having my FSK441 sked blown away by someone running JT65 and I am sure that will become more common in the months and years to come.
                                 
                                I'd even consider saying that we should consider a calling frequency above 144.300, but I know most would never agree to that.  And there would be problems with the FM encroachers to the weak signal space too.  A long time ago we defaulted the space between 144.3 and 144.5, by not using it.  The FM operations there are kind of like squatters - they have been there so long that they kind of 'own the land' now.
                                 
                                So I guess we are stuck with somewhere between .100 and as high as we dare to go.  JT65 EME operations are carried out on almost any discrete frequency between 101 and 170., and I have even seen skeds made on in between frequencies (like 144.151.5) lately.  No matter where we decide to go, there will be conflicts with other modes, both on and off the decided upon calling frequencies.  It will be necessary for us to be good neighbors and relinquish the frequency to others who may be there first, or who are running a non-real time sked.
                                 
                                73, Russ K2TXB
                                 
                                 
                                 ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:38 AM
                                Subject: [wsjtgroup] Time for JT65/JT6M Tropo/TEP Terrestrial calling freqs?

                                With the increased activity around WSJT and watching some recent tropo
                                openings, I wonder if it is time to consider a given set of calling
                                frequencies for terrestrial weak (or maybe not so weak) signal work
                                apart from standard m/s ones for those wanting to focus on and run
                                tropo?  We had some weak tropo during RH Saturday here and you could
                                hear solid JT6M.  Wasn't too bad here and I still had a couple of 2m
                                pings come through from where the band wasn't trying to open so that is
                                not meant as a complaint.  Same on 6m across the southeastern states
                                Sunday morning with several working or trying to work on 50.260.

                                My suggestion is to create a set of tropo calling frequencies slightly
                                towards the SSB part of each band - say 50.250 and 144.150.  Is either
                                50.250 or 144.150 staked out and actually used by anyone already? 
                                Digital on Six shows 50.250 as a EME calling freq but I've yet to see it
                                used on the PJ EME page. If so, drop 5 or 10 KHz or go up.  We would
                                also strongly encourage the use of U/D calling method but stay clear of
                                50.260 and 144.140 if band(s) appears to be open.  That would preserve
                                the m/s frequencies for those not in the footprint of a tropo/TEP
                                opening. If a band is open and several are calling, it can be hard
                                enough to separate them.  Granted, the band(s) wont be open in all
                                directions so a swing of the beam may favor one over another.  Also,
                                what about 222 and 432?

                                I would also really like to see a separate weak signal calling frequency
                                for 6m TEP.  The band may open between the southern part of the US and
                                Mexico to South America each spring and fall and if someone were to
                                periodically call with JT65 or JT6M (I still like JT44 for this, SRI
                                Joe!) it could be as good or better than a beacon because you would know
                                "someone is home".  I know some/most of South America is actually east
                                of many in the US/Mexico but maybe use the old "southern station goes
                                first" guidance for convention and keep things simple and not have to
                                consult a map.  EU and Africa tend to have better and more consistent
                                TEP each year because of the geomagnetic equator up swing (JA's to VK
                                and ZL's also).  Have they established anything?  I would like to know
                                if they have and someone can possibly share that.

                                In summary, the plus side would be a given frequency for a band to watch
                                for those wishing to operate terrestrial weak signal modes - either
                                normal or enhanced tropo.  Experiences a couple of summers ago showed
                                you could easily work weak signal single or double hop 6m Es and never
                                hear a beacon or SSB.  Or you could work them well before and long after
                                CW and SSB came and went.  My guess is there are also many weak TEP
                                openings that are totally missed.  The only down side would be some
                                possible dilution of signals on the traditional m/s calling frequencies.

                                It would be nice to get some things discussed and settled during the
                                bottom of solar cycle and be ready for the upturn (eternal optimist!) if
                                there is sufficient interest and consensus.  While many take the
                                internet, prop loggers and chat pages for granted, many don't have any
                                or only limited internet access.  If calling freqs were well
                                established, one would know where to monitor when conditions or season
                                dictates for the wonderful weak signal modes K1JT has developed.

                                Your turn and I am wide open - Bruce, N5SIX


                              • Rex Moncur
                                In response to the following question from a VK-ZL perspective: EU and Africa tend to have better and more consistent TEP each year because of the geomagnetic
                                Message 15 of 16 , Oct 9, 2005

                                  In response to the following question from a VK-ZL perspective:

                                   

                                  EU and Africa tend to have better and more consistent
                                  TEP each year because of the geomagnetic equator up swing (JA's to VK
                                  and ZL's also).  Have they established anything?  I would like to know
                                  if they have and someone can possibly share that.



                                • Rex Moncur
                                  For some reason the response to not come through so let me try again In VK and ZL we use what we call focus frequencies to focus the digital modes on one
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 9, 2005

                                    For some reason the response to not come through so let me try again

                                     

                                     

                                    In VK and ZL we use what we call “focus frequencies” to focus the digital modes on one frequency for terrestrial operations.  The difference between a “focus frequency” and a “call frequency” is that on a “focus frequency” you do not QSY.  The frequencies are as follows for two meters and apply to all bands from 50 MHz up.

                                     

                                    Primary of Focus Frequencies

                                     

                                    144.220 narrow band digital modes less than 100 Hz eg PSK

                                    144.225 medium bandwidth digital modes e.g JT65

                                    144.230 meteor scatter digital modes eg FSK441

                                     

                                    Secondary Frequencies

                                     

                                    144.320 narrow band digital modes less than 100 Hz eg PSK

                                    144.325 medium bandwidth digital modes e.g JT65

                                    144.330 meteor scatter digital modes eg FSK441

                                     

                                     

                                    These frequencies have been allocated in the band plan by the Wireless Institute of Australia and also adopted in ZL.  The band plan allocates the full range .220 to .240 (and 320 to 340) to Digital DX modes so the in-between frequencies are also available for Digital DX modes.

                                     

                                    Almost all operations are on the primary frequencies unless people are running Dxpeditions or tests etc when they tend to use the secondary frequencies to get a clear go. We follow the simple rule of Easterly and Southerly station TX first and while this does have potential ambiguity at 45 degrees it is not a practical problem. We see it as better for everyone to stay on the same frequency to keep things simple and so you have the best chance of seeing something - we do not QSY. We have up to 10 stations working MS each Weekend for our activity sessions and interference is not a problem.

                                     

                                    None of this is at present applicable to TEP as at this stage there is no common allocation with JA, but as time goes by I think there will be a need for wider rationalization of VHF frequencies – particularly for EME.

                                     

                                    73 Rex, VK7MO



                                     

                                     


                                    From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rex Moncur
                                    Sent: Monday, 10 October 2005 11:51 AM
                                    To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] Time for JT65/JT6M Tropo/TEP Terrestrial calling freqs?

                                     

                                    In response to the following question from a VK-ZL perspective:

                                     

                                    EU and Africa tend to have better and more consistent
                                    TEP each year because of the geomagnetic equator up swing (JA's to VK
                                    and ZL's also).  Have they established anything?  I would like to know
                                    if they have and someone can possibly share that.



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