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  • Joe Subich, W4TV
    Lest anyone doubt the problems with users who follow the all knobs to the right doctrine take a look at the spectrum of one lid this afternoon/evening:
    Message 1 of 18 , May 26, 2014
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      Lest anyone doubt the problems with users who follow the "all knobs
      to the right" doctrine take a look at the spectrum of one lid this
      afternoon/evening: http://www.w4tv.com/HI8XXX.jpg.

      The user is running a tone frequency around 390 Hz and so badly over
      driving the mic preamp in his rig that one can see at least *seven*
      harmonics of the fundamental stretching to over 3 KHz where the TX
      filter finally rolls off - a later observation showed harmonics out
      to the *ninth* - above 3500 Hz. This idiot destroyed a very good six
      meter opening for most of the eastern half of the US as he was the
      only signal anyone could copy in those minutes he transmitted - the
      only stations worked anyone were those who worked him.

      A word to the wise, keep the sound card output to the minimum, use
      the transceiver *LINE* Input and not the mic, and use a high tone
      frequency so the harmonics are outside the transmitter passband.

      73,

      ... Joe, W4TV
    • Jim Brown
      ... There are three good ways to minimize the distortion produced by a computer sound card. They all boil down to the same thing. The fundamental principle is
      Message 2 of 18 , May 26, 2014
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        On 5/26/2014 5:36 PM, 'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@... [wsjtgroup] wrote:
        > A word to the wise, keep the sound card output to the minimum, use
        > the transceiver*LINE* Input and not the mic, and use a high tone
        > frequency so the harmonics are outside the transmitter passband.

        There are three good ways to minimize the distortion produced by a
        computer sound card. They all boil down to the same thing. The
        fundamental principle is too keep the tones at least 6 dB below where
        the sound card clips. Which method you use depends on what is available
        to you in the way of test equipment.

        The best method is with a scope connected to the sound card output
        looking at the tones. Increase the output of the sound card until you
        see the top and/or bottom of the sine wave squaring off, or even no
        longer increasing. Now, reduce the sound card output until the trace is
        half as high.

        The second method is to hang a voltmeter across the sound card output,
        gradually increase the sound card output until the voltmeter reading
        stops increasing, then reduce the sound card output by at least half.

        The third method is to listen to the sound card output with good
        headphones, start with low output level, then gradually increase it
        until you hear a harshness in the tone. That harshness is clip. Now,
        reduce the output level until it sounds "half as loud." This will reduce
        it by 6-10 dB, because that's how humans perceive loudness.

        This sets the sound card. Now, connect that to the rig's line input,
        turn off any compression or "processing," and gradually increase the
        level until the power output no longer increases, then back off a bit.

        When you do this, it doesn't matter what tone frequencies you are using,
        because your signal will be clean.

        73, Jim K9YC
      • Joe Subich, W4TV
        This not likely to be a case of the sound card clipping unless the card has a bad output amplifier. The level of harmonic production is very consistent with
        Message 3 of 18 , May 26, 2014
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          This not likely to be a case of the sound card clipping unless the card
          has a bad output amplifier. The level of harmonic production is very
          consistent with driving a mic preamp into hard clipping - which is
          often the case when one runs the speaker output of a sound card
          directly into the mic jack of a transmitter designed for dynamic mics
          (Kenwood, Ten-Tec, Yaesu) since all of those rigs have a fixed gain
          pre-amp which expects about 5 mV RMS audio *before* the mic gain
          control. A 4V P-P audio signal going into those roughly 30 dB gain
          single ended transistor preamps is a recipe for disaster.

          The "Line" (ACC, PKT, DATA, etc.) input is typically 20 dB less
          sensitive than the mic input in those rigs but even then one should
          be using a 10K/1K or 22K/1K voltage divider between the sound card
          speaker/line output and the "Line" input of the transceiver ... or
          a 100K/1K to 330K/1K divider if one *must* use the mic input.

          73,

          ... Joe, W4TV


          On 2014-05-26 9:07 PM, Jim Brown k9yc@... [wsjtgroup]
          wrote:
          > On 5/26/2014 5:36 PM, 'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@... [wsjtgroup] wrote:
          >> A word to the wise, keep the sound card output to the minimum, use
          >> the transceiver*LINE* Input and not the mic, and use a high tone
          >> frequency so the harmonics are outside the transmitter passband.
          >
          > There are three good ways to minimize the distortion produced by a
          > computer sound card. They all boil down to the same thing. The
          > fundamental principle is too keep the tones at least 6 dB below where
          > the sound card clips. Which method you use depends on what is available
          > to you in the way of test equipment.
          >
          > The best method is with a scope connected to the sound card output
          > looking at the tones. Increase the output of the sound card until you
          > see the top and/or bottom of the sine wave squaring off, or even no
          > longer increasing. Now, reduce the sound card output until the trace is
          > half as high.
          >
          > The second method is to hang a voltmeter across the sound card output,
          > gradually increase the sound card output until the voltmeter reading
          > stops increasing, then reduce the sound card output by at least half.
          >
          > The third method is to listen to the sound card output with good
          > headphones, start with low output level, then gradually increase it
          > until you hear a harshness in the tone. That harshness is clip. Now,
          > reduce the output level until it sounds "half as loud." This will reduce
          > it by 6-10 dB, because that's how humans perceive loudness.
          >
          > This sets the sound card. Now, connect that to the rig's line input,
          > turn off any compression or "processing," and gradually increase the
          > level until the power output no longer increases, then back off a bit.
          >
          > When you do this, it doesn't matter what tone frequencies you are using,
          > because your signal will be clean.
          >
          > 73, Jim K9YC
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          > Posted by: Jim Brown <k9yc@...>
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
          > wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
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          >
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          >
          > Yahoo Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Jim Brown
          ... Joe, I m not disagreeing with your comments, merely expanding on it. My advice is far more generic than one lid s massive screw-up. In well designed audio
          Message 4 of 18 , May 26, 2014
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            On 5/26/2014 6:24 PM, 'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@... [wsjtgroup] wrote:
            > This not likely to be a case of the sound card clipping unless the card
            > has a bad output amplifier.

            Joe,

            I'm not disagreeing with your comments, merely expanding on it. My
            advice is far more generic than one lid's massive screw-up.

            In well designed audio output stages, distortion remains quite low until
            the stage clips (the wave squares off when it hits the power supply
            rails -- V+ and V-). But in typical computer sound cards (read "cheap,
            not designed by audio people), I've measured -30dB (3%) distortion just
            below clip, but only -40dB (1%) distortion with the output level reduced
            by half (6 dB). That means that your spurs will be 10 dB weaker.

            73, Jim K9YC
          • Alexandre Moleiro
            Hi! You could add the following: If your transceiver has an ALC meter gradually increase the level until the meter starts moving then back off a bit. This
            Message 5 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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              Hi!

              You could add the following:

              If your transceiver has an ALC meter gradually increase the level until the meter starts moving then back off a bit.

              "


              This sets the sound card. Now, connect that to the rig's line input,
              turn off any compression or "processing," and gradually increase the
              level until the power output no longer increases, then back off a bit.
              "

              Do you agree ?
            • Jim Brown
              ... This is rig-specific, and should be addressed in the manual for the transceiver. For example, the K3 manual calls for 5-7 bars of ALC. 73, Jim K9YC
              Message 6 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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                On 5/27/2014 6:49 AM, Alexandre Moleiro wrote:
                > ou could add the following:
                >
                > If your transceiver has an ALC meter gradually increase the level
                > until the meter starts moving then back off a bit.

                This is rig-specific, and should be addressed in the manual for the
                transceiver. For example, the K3 manual calls for 5-7 bars of ALC.

                73, Jim K9YC
              • Joe Subich, W4TV
                ... Only in SSB. In digital modes the K3 manual calls for 4-5 bars of ALC. 6 or 7 bars of ALC will generate IMD in the LPA and HPA - particularly in PSK
                Message 7 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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                  > For example, the K3 manual calls for 5-7 bars of ALC.

                  Only in SSB. In digital modes the K3 manual calls for 4-5 bars
                  of ALC. 6 or 7 bars of ALC will generate IMD in the LPA and
                  HPA - particularly in PSK modes.

                  73,

                  ... Joe, W4TV


                  On 2014-05-27 1:58 PM, Jim Brown k9yc@... [wsjtgroup]
                  wrote:
                  > On 5/27/2014 6:49 AM, Alexandre Moleiro wrote:
                  >> ou could add the following:
                  >>
                  >> If your transceiver has an ALC meter gradually increase the level
                  >> until the meter starts moving then back off a bit.
                  >
                  > This is rig-specific, and should be addressed in the manual for the
                  > transceiver. For example, the K3 manual calls for 5-7 bars of ALC.
                  >
                  > 73, Jim K9YC
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  > Posted by: Jim Brown <k9yc@...>
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                  > wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > WSJTGroup Homepage --> http://www.wsjtgroup.org/
                  >
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                  >
                  > Yahoo Groups Links
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                • Jim Brown
                  On 5/27/2014 11:10 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV lists@subich.com [wsjtgroup] ... Where do you see that in the manual, Joe? The paragraph on setting levels for
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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                    On 5/27/2014 11:10 AM, 'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@... [wsjtgroup]
                    wrote:
                    > Only in SSB. In digital modes the K3 manual calls for 4-5 bars
                    > of ALC. 6 or 7 bars of ALC will generate IMD in the LPA and
                    > HPA - particularly in PSK modes.

                    Where do you see that in the manual, Joe? The paragraph on setting
                    levels for digital modes says follow the instructions for SSB on page
                    28, and page 28 says 5-7 bars.

                    73, Jim K9YC
                  • Joe Subich, W4TV
                    It s been discussed dozens of times on the Elecraft list ... 73, ... Joe, W4TV
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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                      It's been discussed dozens of times on the Elecraft list ...

                      73,

                      ... Joe, W4TV


                      On 2014-05-27 9:14 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
                      > On 5/27/2014 11:10 AM, 'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@... [wsjtgroup]
                      > wrote:
                      >> Only in SSB. In digital modes the K3 manual calls for 4-5 bars
                      >> of ALC. 6 or 7 bars of ALC will generate IMD in the LPA and
                      >> HPA - particularly in PSK modes.
                      >
                      > Where do you see that in the manual, Joe? The paragraph on setting
                      > levels for digital modes says follow the instructions for SSB on page
                      > 28, and page 28 says 5-7 bars.
                      >
                      > 73, Jim K9YC
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Larry Mundinger
                      On 05/27/2014 09:14 PM, Jim Brown k9yc@audiosystemsgroup.com [wsjtgroup] ... Any ALC activity means clipping. Any apparent power increase gained by going
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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                        On 05/27/2014 09:14 PM, Jim Brown k9yc@... [wsjtgroup]
                        wrote:
                        > Where do you see that in the manual, Joe? The paragraph on setting
                        > levels for digital modes says follow the instructions for SSB on page
                        > 28, and page 28 says 5-7 bars.

                        Any ALC activity means clipping. Any apparent power increase gained by
                        going beyond zero ALC is going into the sidebands and not the decodable
                        signal. This is especially true of PSK which has a waveform designed to
                        minimize bandwidth. Voice can be clipped and processed and still be
                        intelligible. Often it even helps but digital modes must be transmitted
                        as generated.

                        I checked my computer output on a scope and found that my sound card was
                        clipping at 4 volts output. If I had used the max volume setting and
                        cut the signal down in my interface I would have still been putting out
                        a crappy signal since attenuation would not change the waveform. Use
                        something like 2/3 max or less.

                        For PSK set your desired power level using a single tone if one is
                        available (no ALC). I use Fldigi which has a tune button as does
                        WSJTX. PSK idles will show 41% of that value and data will bounce
                        between 41% and the peak power. That is normal because the PSK waveform
                        is amplitude modulated to minimize bandwidth. Resist the urge to crank
                        up the gain because it won't help if it puts you into ALC territory.
                        You want that waveform going out as clean and pure as possible.

                        According to Jon Baptiste Fourier who worked for Napoleon any clipping
                        of the waveform will result in harmonics. This is true of all soundcard
                        modes.

                        KG4Q
                      • Sam Morgan
                        Page 84 of KE7X s The ElecraftK3 manual (first edition) says: adjust for peak ALC reading of about 4 bars with the 5th bar just flickering. he is speaking of
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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                          Page 84 of KE7X's The ElecraftK3 manual (first edition) says:

                          "adjust for peak ALC reading of about 4 bars with the 5th bar just
                          flickering."

                          he is speaking of setting up for AFSK RTTY in mode DATA, but it applys
                          to all data modes as opposed to data modes run using LSB or USB.

                          ========
                          or from Don Wilhelm on April 18, 2014 where he said it this way:
                          "Adjust the computer soundcard slider for Line Out to about 2/3 of maximum.
                          Then while transmitting from Fldigi, adjust the K3 Line In level to
                          produce 4 bars solid on the ALC meter and the 5th bar flickering. You
                          may have to make minor adjustments to the computer Line out slider.
                          Note that the K3 audio setup differs from the usual advice seen in that
                          you *must* set up the audio correctly and control the power output with
                          the power knob. Attempting to control the power level by adjusting the
                          audio will result in "power hunting". The K3 "ALC" meter is more like a
                          "VU" meter combined with an ALC meter. The onset of ALC is when the 5th
                          bar is illuminated. Below that, it is simply an audio level meter."

                          http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg167860.html
                          ========

                          GB & 73
                          K5OAI
                          Sam Morgan

                          On 5/27/2014 8:14 PM, Jim Brown k9yc@... [wsjtgroup]
                          wrote:
                          > On 5/27/2014 11:10 AM, 'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@... [wsjtgroup]
                          > wrote:
                          >> Only in SSB. In digital modes the K3 manual calls for 4-5 bars
                          >> of ALC. 6 or 7 bars of ALC will generate IMD in the LPA and
                          >> HPA - particularly in PSK modes.
                          >
                          > Where do you see that in the manual, Joe? The paragraph on setting
                          > levels for digital modes says follow the instructions for SSB on page
                          > 28, and page 28 says 5-7 bars.
                          >
                          > 73, Jim K9YC
                          >
                        • Joe Subich, W4TV
                          ... That is not the case with the K3. K3 does not use detection in the final which causes a reduction in IF gain. Instead, the K3 calibrates the power level
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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                            > Any ALC activity means clipping.

                            That is not the case with the K3. K3 does not use detection in the
                            final which causes a reduction in IF gain. Instead, the K3 calibrates
                            the power level from the modulator necessary to reach the set power
                            level. ALC level of less than four to five "bars" indicates audio
                            expansion (increased audio gain) ahead of the DSP modulator while ALC
                            levels above five represent gain reduction from the modulator. In no
                            case is there any gain reduction in the IF or compression/clipping in
                            the final amplifier.

                            73,

                            ... Joe, W4TV


                            On 2014-05-27 10:11 PM, Larry Mundinger lmunding@...
                            [wsjtgroup] wrote:
                            > On 05/27/2014 09:14 PM, Jim Brown k9yc@... [wsjtgroup]
                            > wrote:
                            >> Where do you see that in the manual, Joe? The paragraph on setting
                            >> levels for digital modes says follow the instructions for SSB on page
                            >> 28, and page 28 says 5-7 bars.
                            >
                            > Any ALC activity means clipping. Any apparent power increase gained by
                            > going beyond zero ALC is going into the sidebands and not the decodable
                            > signal. This is especially true of PSK which has a waveform designed to
                            > minimize bandwidth. Voice can be clipped and processed and still be
                            > intelligible. Often it even helps but digital modes must be transmitted
                            > as generated.
                            >
                            > I checked my computer output on a scope and found that my sound card was
                            > clipping at 4 volts output. If I had used the max volume setting and
                            > cut the signal down in my interface I would have still been putting out
                            > a crappy signal since attenuation would not change the waveform. Use
                            > something like 2/3 max or less.
                            >
                            > For PSK set your desired power level using a single tone if one is
                            > available (no ALC). I use Fldigi which has a tune button as does
                            > WSJTX. PSK idles will show 41% of that value and data will bounce
                            > between 41% and the peak power. That is normal because the PSK waveform
                            > is amplitude modulated to minimize bandwidth. Resist the urge to crank
                            > up the gain because it won't help if it puts you into ALC territory.
                            > You want that waveform going out as clean and pure as possible.
                            >
                            > According to Jon Baptiste Fourier who worked for Napoleon any clipping
                            > of the waveform will result in harmonics. This is true of all soundcard
                            > modes.
                            >
                            > KG4Q
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            > Posted by: Larry Mundinger <LMunding@...>
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                            > wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > WSJTGroup Homepage --> http://www.wsjtgroup.org/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Jim Brown
                            ... I m sure it has, but I didn t go from memory, I downloaded and read the Elecraft manual pdf from the Elecraft website. KE7X s book is a good reference, but
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 27, 2014
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                              On 5/27/2014 7:05 PM, 'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@... [wsjtgroup] wrote:
                              > It's been discussed dozens of times on the Elecraft list ...

                              I'm sure it has, but I didn't go from memory, I downloaded and read the
                              Elecraft manual pdf from the Elecraft website. KE7X's book is a good
                              reference, but it is NOT the Elecraft manual, it is a third party book
                              about the K3.

                              If someone has done the measurements to show that 4 bars of AGC has
                              lower distortion, it would certainly be good to run it that way. :) And
                              Elecraft ought to revise their manual.

                              73, Jim K9YC
                            • k3wyc
                              If the operator transmitting the bad signal is a lid, what does that make the ops that kept working him and, presumably, not telling him he had a bad signal?
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 28, 2014
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                                If the operator transmitting the bad signal is a lid, what does that make the ops that kept working him and, presumably, not telling him he had a bad signal?


                                In this situation I have sent an email with a screen capture showing the problem and also transmitted "check email".    In one case a clean signal appeared only a few minutes later.  A JTAlert text message is also worth sending but there is no assurance it was received.


                                I use Spectrum lab to monitor my transmit sidetone.   This also has the advantage of a quick visual confirmation that the sync tone is in the right range for split mode as I have an inactive filter showing the allowed sync tone range.


                                73,

                                Andy k3wyc


                              • Joe Subich, W4TV
                                ... More concerned about bagging a new country or grid .... ... That has been done ... we will see if it has any impact but it will probably not be
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 28, 2014
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                                  On 2014-05-28 3:53 PM, a.durbin@... [wsjtgroup] wrote:
                                  > If the operator transmitting the bad signal is a lid, what does that
                                  > make the ops that kept working him and, presumably, not telling him
                                  > he had a bad signal?

                                  More concerned about bagging a new country or grid <G> ....

                                  > In this situation I have sent an email with a screen capture

                                  That has been done ... we will see if it has any impact but it will
                                  probably not be apparent until the next opening on six.

                                  73,

                                  ... Joe, W4TV


                                  On 2014-05-28 3:53 PM, a.durbin@... [wsjtgroup] wrote:
                                  > If the operator transmitting the bad signal is a lid, what does that make the ops that kept working him and, presumably, not telling him he had a bad signal?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In this situation I have sent an email with a screen capture showing the problem and also transmitted "check email". In one case a clean signal appeared only a few minutes later. A JTAlert text message is also worth sending but there is no assurance it was received.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I use Spectrum lab to monitor my transmit sidetone. This also has the advantage of a quick visual confirmation that the sync tone is in the right range for split mode as I have an inactive filter showing the allowed sync tone range.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > 73,
                                  > Andy k3wyc
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Alexandre Moleiro
                                  From the discussion seems to me the K3 ALC meter is not a REAL ALC meter. So, if your rig has a true ALC meter I think my statement still holds... or not ? 73
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 30, 2014
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                                    From the discussion seems to me the K3 ALC meter is not a REAL ALC meter.

                                    So, if your rig has a true ALC meter I think my statement still holds... or not ?

                                    73 de Alex - CT1GVN


                                    On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:58 PM, "Jim Brown k9yc@... [wsjtgroup]" <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                     
                                    On 5/27/2014 6:49 AM, Alexandre Moleiro wrote:
                                    > ou could add the following:
                                    >
                                    > If your transceiver has an ALC meter gradually increase the level
                                    > until the meter starts moving then back off a bit.

                                    This is rig-specific, and should be addressed in the manual for the
                                    transceiver. For example, the K3 manual calls for 5-7 bars of ALC.

                                    73, Jim K9YC



                                  • Sam Morgan
                                    the way it was explained to me, is that the 1st 4 bars are the same as a VU meter, then with the start of the 5th bar, it displays ALC as you would expect any
                                    Message 17 of 18 , May 30, 2014
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                                      the way it was explained to me,
                                      is that the 1st 4 bars are the same as a VU meter,
                                      then with the start of the 5th bar,
                                      it displays ALC as you would expect any ALC meter to display

                                      GB & 73
                                      K5OAI
                                      Sam Morgan

                                      On 5/30/2014 1:12 PM, Alexandre Moleiro avataranedotas@...
                                      [wsjtgroup] wrote:

                                      > From the discussion seems to me the K3 ALC meter is not a REAL ALC meter.
                                      >
                                      > So, if your rig has a true ALC meter I think my statement still holds...
                                      > or not ?
                                      >
                                      > 73 de Alex - CT1GVN
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:58 PM, "Jim Brown k9yc@...
                                      > [wsjtgroup]" <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 5/27/2014 6:49 AM, Alexandre Moleiro wrote:
                                      > > ou could add the following:
                                      > >
                                      > > If your transceiver has an ALC meter gradually increase the level
                                      > > until the meter starts moving then back off a bit.
                                      >
                                      > This is rig-specific, and should be addressed in the manual for the
                                      > transceiver. For example, the K3 manual calls for 5-7 bars of ALC.
                                      >
                                      > 73, Jim K9YC
                                      >
                                    • Joe Subich, W4TV
                                      If your rig relies on *overdriving* the final amplifier to generate ALC your statement is correct. If the rig uses modern RF design to prevent overdriving the
                                      Message 18 of 18 , May 30, 2014
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                                        If your rig relies on *overdriving* the final amplifier to generate ALC
                                        your statement is correct. If the rig uses modern RF design to prevent
                                        overdriving the final (and intermediate) amplifiers, your statement is
                                        not correct.

                                        73,

                                        ... Joe, W4TV


                                        On 2014-05-30 2:12 PM, Alexandre Moleiro avataranedotas@...
                                        [wsjtgroup] wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>From the discussion seems to me the K3 ALC meter is not a REAL ALC meter.
                                        >
                                        > So, if your rig has a true ALC meter I think my statement still holds... or not ?
                                        >
                                        > 73 de Alex - CT1GVN
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:58 PM, "Jim Brown k9yc@... [wsjtgroup]" <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On 5/27/2014 6:49 AM, Alexandre Moleiro wrote:
                                        >> ou could add the following:
                                        >>
                                        >> If your transceiver has an ALC meter gradually increase the level
                                        >> until the meter starts moving then back off a bit.
                                        >
                                        > This is rig-specific, and should be addressed in the manual for the
                                        > transceiver. For example, the K3 manual calls for 5-7 bars of ALC.
                                        >
                                        > 73, Jim K9YC
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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