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European frequencies for WSJT modes

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  • Philip
    Hi all, I have been mostly inactive on VHF since 2009 due to a house move, but have finally installed some antennas for 50 MHz and 144 MHz and returned to
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 13, 2013
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      Hi all,

      I have been mostly inactive on VHF since 2009 due to a house move, but have finally installed some antennas for 50 MHz and 144 MHz and returned to using my favourite WSJT software.

      Yesterday on 50.293 MHz I worked stations all over Europe, using for me the new JT9-1 mode via Sporadic-E propagation. I also noticed some European stations working VE, which was interesting.

      On 50.230 MHz I heard someone calling in what I thought was the old JT6M mode, but I couldn't decode that and now think it might have been ICSAT-B? He had gone by the time I changed modes.

      Obviously things have developed and changed in the past few years and some of the default frequencies in WSJT-X appear to refer to US Band plans.

      My questions are for Europe what are the correct frequencies and modes now in use?

      On 50.230 MHz in Europe is the JT6M mode used still for MS or has it been replaced here by ICSAT-B? Or is ICSAT-B used on a different frequency?

      What European 144 MHz frequency is used for JT9-1 mode? I am interested so see how this performs both daily in flat conditions and during Sporadic-E openings in June.

      It can't be the software shown default 144.489 MHz as here 144.400-490 MHz are for Propagation Beacons only. Could it be around 144.389 MHz just above where FSK441 for MS is mostly used?

      60M (5 MHz) for JT9-1 what is the frequency used within Europe and within the UK? I am thinking for G it might be just above PSK31 around 5.365 MHz?

      Many thanks if you can help answer my questions please. Trying to find this information looking at Cluster spots or online is proving difficult so far.

      73 de Philip G0ISW

      http://www.qsl.net/g0isw
    • Philip
      Thanks everyone for all the off group replies to my original message. I now have the following USB dial frequencies set into my radio 50.230 MHz - JT6M
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 16, 2013
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        Thanks everyone for all the off group replies to my original message. I now have the following 'USB dial' frequencies set into my radio


        50.230 MHz - JT6M

        50.235 MHz - ISCAT

        50.276 MHz - JT65A

        50.293 MHz - JT9-1

        50.294 MHz - WSPR


        Still no suggestions for European 144 MHz JT9-1 apart from software default which at 144.498 MHz I can't use as it is within the allocated 'Beacon' segment for me here.

        73 de Philip G0ISW

        http://www.qsl.net/g0isw
      • Jim and Hannelore Fisher
        I think 50293 rather than 50294 is the proper window frequency to list for WSPR. JT9-1 and WSPR are both being transmitted within this window. I have been
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 17, 2013
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          I think 50293 rather than 50294 is the proper window frequency to list for WSPR. JT9-1 and WSPR are both being transmitted within this window. I have been suggesting that JT9-1 be transmitted below 1400Hz on the graph, to minimize confusion.
           
          BTW, I have been party to a large number of transatlantic 6M JT9-1 decodes (both directions) in the past 48 hours. Seems to be working fine. Sometimes several of us in NA are transmitting even and several EUs are transmitting odd, spacing ourselves at a minimum of 25Hz, to maximize the possibility of uncovering various paths and to minimize local interference. My back is to almost all NA stations, but for Europeans it's particularly handy to have all the locals on odd sequence to minimize overload while looking transatlantic. (This only works for those attempting transatlantic contacts.)
           
          73,
           
          Jim, VE1JF
        • IK6ZDE
          Hello, I m Fabrizio, ik6zde. I m looking for Diana Experimental mode QRGs, 10m through 160m. Try to find something in groups, but nothing ....... Any help?
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 18, 2013
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            Hello,

            I'm Fabrizio, ik6zde.

            I'm looking for Diana Experimental mode QRGs, 10m through 160m.

            Try to find something in groups, but nothing .......

            Any help? Maybe normal jt9 qrgs?

            '73s Fabrizio

            www.ik6zde.it




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          • Ian Wade G3NRW
            ___Original Message_________________________________________ From: IK6ZDE Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 Time: 07:55:53 ... Fabrizio People have
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 18, 2013
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              ___Original Message_________________________________________
              From: IK6ZDE <ik6zde@...>
              Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 Time: 07:55:53

              >I'm looking for Diana Experimental mode QRGs, 10m through 160m.
              >
              >Try to find something in groups, but nothing .......
              >


              Fabrizio

              People have reported Diana on 10.136 dial.

              For details, go to the "30m Band Utilization Chart":

              http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm

              Click on the red "THE 30m BAND UTILIZATION CHART" button.

              --
              73
              Ian, G3NRW

              The 30m Band Utilization Chart:
              http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm

              The UK 60m Band Utilization Chart:
              http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/UK_60m_band_utilization.htm

              The 160m Band Utilization Chart:
              http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/160m_band_utilization.htm

              The TS-590S Resources Page:
              http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-590s.htm

              The TS-990S Resources Page:
              http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-990.htm

              The AIM4170 Antenna Analyzer:
              http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/aim4170.htm
            • Philip
              ... Hi Jim, As an update to this regarding WSPR I have found today that the new Region 1 band plan that came into affect already has WSPR beacons shown at
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 20, 2013
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                --- In wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com, Jim and Hannelore Fisher <jwfisher@...> wrote:
                >
                > I think 50293 rather than 50294 is the proper window frequency to list for WSPR.

                Hi Jim,

                As an update to this regarding WSPR I have found today that the new Region 1 band plan that came into affect already has WSPR beacons shown at 50.401 MHz +/- 500Hz.

                This is at the bottom of the new Region 1 Beacon segment that runs from 50.400-50.500 MHz that all our beacons will transition to by August 2014, apparently.

                Clearly although already in affect this new band plan will take some time to adhere to as there are other suggestions for modes etc. elsewhere that are different to where all the activity currently takes place.

                Just sent for info in case this question comes up again about WSPR now or in the future for Region 1 and Europe.

                73 de Philip G0ISW
              • IK6ZDE
                Ian, tnx for reply and for interesting website link. I ll continue to looking for informations and to share what i m going to find. Next month i will try to
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 21, 2013
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                  Ian,

                  tnx for reply and for interesting website link.

                  I'll continue to looking for informations and to share what i'm going to find.

                  Next month i will try to promote  Diana mode utilization in #DIG ( http://www.ik6zde.it/dig )

                  '73s and thank you again,

                  Fabrizio ik6zde





                  Il 18/06/2013 10.39, Ian Wade G3NRW ha scritto:
                   

                  ___Original Message_________________________________________
                  From: IK6ZDE <ik6zde@...>
                  Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 Time: 07:55:53

                  >I'm looking for Diana Experimental mode QRGs, 10m through 160m.
                  >
                  >Try to find something in groups, but nothing .......
                  >

                  Fabrizio

                  People have reported Diana on 10.136 dial.

                  For details, go to the "30m Band Utilization Chart":

                  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm

                  Click on the red "THE 30m BAND UTILIZATION CHART" button.

                  --
                  73
                  Ian, G3NRW

                  ..........................




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                • booz2m
                  Hi Philip and the group When reading the bandplan don t forget to read the footnotes they are equally important. In this particular case footnote 4.2.2.1.g
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 22, 2013
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                    Hi Philip and the group

                    When reading the bandplan don't forget to read the footnotes they are equally important. In this particular case footnote 4.2.2.1.g that leads to sections 11.1.1 and 11.1.2.

                    Just because the transmission protocol is WSPR doesn't make it a coordinated beacon.

                    For un-coordinated MGM transmissions there is 100 kHz assigned for the purpose from 50,3 MHz to 50,4 MHz.

                    Because WSPR is narrow band the allocated 50,401 MHz +/- 500 Hz may fit a dozen or more. "Normal (= CW FSK)" or "wideband" beacons using 250 Hz or the full 1 kHz, like OZ7IGY that transmits mixed mode (PI4 + CW + carrier) http://rudius.net/oz7igy , are all over the segment from 50,402 MHz to 50,500 MHz.

                    Reference: IARU Region 1 VHF Managers Handbook 6,00; 22 December 2011.

                    73
                    Bo, OZ2M
                  • Philip
                    Thanks Bo for your reply, It seems you may have some insight to the logic of it all. Having returned to VHF TX operation again, after a four year gap, what is
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 22, 2013
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                      Thanks Bo for your reply,

                      It seems you may have some insight to the logic of it all.

                      Having returned to VHF TX operation again, after a four year gap, what is of interest to me is this new Region 1 band plan that came into affect on 1st January 2012.

                      I saw a station on the DXcluster the other day complaining about every single European data station he saw operating below 50.300 MHz and that is what made me look up what had changed.

                      Obviously all the 50 MHz European data activity has remained exactly where it has always been and hasn't migrated to this new band plan.

                      (The same thing happened when the 40m band plan changed and PSK31 stayed where it had always been around 7.034 MHz and not the new 7.040 MHz.)

                      In my opinion part of the problem is we all want to work each other across Europe and in particular DX that may be outside our own Region i.e. Transatlantic openings to the US or further on 50 MHz from Europe, via Sporadic-E or F2 at solar maximum.

                      If the US are operating on 50.293 MHz JT9-1 (for example) then that is where you would expect European stations to go to try to work them. They are not going to work each other if they are on entirely different frequencies. Same with WSPR allocations, they are not going to hear each other.

                      I don't know what the solution is other than to have truly World-wide co-ordinated Regional allocations for mode types such as SSB, data, etc. on 50 MHz, but even on HF the allocations often don't overlap well and clash.

                      We have co-ordinated Worldwide SSB voice DX segments on 50 MHz, but not now with data modes?

                      I'm just trying to understand what is going on, maybe that is why this new band plan for Region 1 is being largely ignored?

                      But, if that is the case why were these new frequencies for Region 1 data suggested, if they move them away from where the US and other DX is found? I think I read somewhere it was to free up more SSB voice space, which makes sense but only if everyone then moves data to the same segments.

                      73 de Philip G0ISW
                    • booz2m
                      Hi Philip I agree that global bandplands would be great. I don t know if work is ongoing on this matter. However, everybody wants development, but, nobody
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 23, 2013
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                        Hi Philip

                        I agree that global bandplands would be great. I don't know if work is ongoing on this matter.
                        However, everybody wants development, but, nobody wants change :-)

                        In some countries there are regulator defined bandplan(s), thus law or law like. In other countries, and I guess most, this is not the case, i.e. often IARU bandsplands are recommended but by nature they cannot be anything else than a recommendation. If people chose not to follow them then there is nothing to do about it.

                        Specifications are easy - implementation is difficult, i.e. old habits die hard.
                        Also the 50 MHz beacons have to move.
                        When the world wide locator system was proposed many European stations were against it and threatened to leave the hobby. When it was decided to use the world wide locators they stayed on board but kept using the obsolete system for more than a decade. Another thing is that people stay where others are - few pave the way by being first movers.
                        Radio amateurs not frequency-claustrophobic, e.g. on 6 m a lot of people squeeze themselves in a very small segment around 50,110 MHz. The same applies on 2 m to 144,300 MHz where I remember having seen articles about this and spots, for three decades, like "spread out everybody" during an Es opening.
                        Similarly, even a very rare DX station or DX-pedition chose a frequency in a crowded segment instead of a "remote" frequency. I am 100% sure that after a few QSOs/spots moving to a "remote" frequency will be very advantageous for everybody.

                        Over time I am sure that the IARU Region 1 50 MHz bandplan will be implemented. But we can all start by doing out part today.

                        There is plenty of room to establish a WSPR-users area somewhere in the 50,3 MHz to 50,4 MHz segment. Personally, I am against stipulating a particular MGM into the bandplan(s) as it is an area of rapid change these days. I find it much better to let evolution handle these matters.

                        73
                        Bo, OZ2M
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