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6866Re: [wsjtgroup] Working WSJT on HF

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  • Randy Tipton
    Jan 28, 2010
      Russ is right that the method was changed from the original format. At the
      time, few random contacts were being made and fewer on the call frequency.
      During the evolution of "Activity Periods" in North America the use of the
      "tagged messages" was changed by those discussing rh practices. I tried to
      find those conversation in the reflector but searching the yahoo messages is
      not an easy task.

      I can not remember how long the current practice has been in place but it
      has been a long long time. Random Hour started Jan 25, 2003. I do remember
      as time went on the standard became to use the other guys call to append the
      messages. It was discussed, perhaps Bruce can remember more of the details.
      This has worked well and as Barry stated when working two stations at once
      it becomes necessary. Random Hour was the driver behind the change and those
      who operated rh discussed what changes were needed from week to week.

      When WSJT came on the scene there were no weekly activity periods in NA
      where everyone used the call frequency. I remember many didn't like this
      'new event' even though the call frequency was seldom used. At that time
      almost all activity was by schedules and very few called CQ. In fact, there
      was no set call frequency for six meters!

      I really don't see a problem using either method, even during the same
      contact. Lets say I am working K2TXB on the call frequency during random
      hour and I receive TXB RRR. Am I not going to know it was Rogers from Russ
      to me? If I send TXB R27 during the same contact, is Russ not going to
      accept R27 as his report from me. I agree we should all use the same method
      however I fail to see a disconnect after each station properly decods
      messages Tx1 or Tx2. The "Tagged, Appended / Random Hour" messages are well
      after you know whom it is your working. (Did I miss something here)

      I did find this document below which used to be posted on the wsjtgroup
      pages. It was dated Oct 23,2004. So the use of the appended messages as
      presently used dates back to late 2003. (See number 3) Interesting to look
      back at one's old files.

      This does not probably resolve this issue but a little information to muddy
      the waters.


      Old WSJTGROUP Web Page...
      Listed here are a few common mistakes "newbies" and sometimes "experienced"
      WSJT operators make.
      We all realize no one is going to be perfect and mistakes are going to be
      made. After all FSK441, WSJT and
      propagation mode meteor scatter are new and have to be learned and operating
      procedures can be corrected
      when errors are pointed out.

      1. Common WSJT Mistakes: Sending each message from Tx1 to Tx 5 in sequential
      order regardless
      of what has been received. The Standard Operating Procedures should be
      followed for three primary reasons:
      1) improves completion / failure ratio 2) shortens qso time 3) received
      messages will be in order expected. To
      avoid this mistake, study the SOP and use the F5 Key to see what should be
      sent nextduring a contact.
      2. Common WSJT Mistakes: Giving up on a schedule too soon. Don't expect to
      hear meteor bursts each
      sequence and unless you have problems, give at least 20 minutes minimum for
      each schedule made. Patience is
      required for meteor scatter contacts especially longer distances.
      3. Common WSJT Mistakes: Using Single Tone Messages or Short Hand Messages
      on call frequencies. This
      will eventually cause confusion on shared frequencies and could put your
      contact in question as well as frustrate or
      wreck another qso on the same frequency. To avoid this, don't use Single
      Tones of Sh Messages on the calling frequency.
      Adapt the messages Tx3 - Tx5 with the other stations Prefix or Suffix.
      4. Common WSJT Mistakes: Discussion relating to what is being sent or
      received during the contact attempt in
      real time on the Ping Jockey Page. The problem is it disqualifies the
      contact making it "invalid". The solution is to keep
      all contact details as to what is being sent and received to yourself until
      the contact is completed or abandoned. This is a good
      practice even if you have worked the station many other times.
      5. Common WSJT Mistakes: Expecting to work stations out of "normal meteor
      scatter range". The recognized
      normal distances for meteor scatter or in the range of a few hundred miles
      up to 1200 miles. Most contacts will be less
      than 1150 miles. Contacts are possible further distances but they are rare
      and best tried during major showers with a
      high ERP station.
      6. Common WSJT Mistakes: Using "non-standard" reports. This generally
      confuses other stations that are expecting to
      decode either 26 or 27 for reports. It is best to stick with the standard
      reports, especially if you plan to use single tone messages.
      7. Common WSJT Mistakes: Not calling the qso complete unless 73 is send and
      received. The Standard Operating
      Procedures clearly state that both stations should only receive Rogers. (R27
      / R26 or RRR i.e. Roger XX
      or Roger Roger Roger )
      8. Common WSJT Mistakes: Failure to adjust RIT and to reduce tol based on
      decoded text DF. The first ping decoded
      will indicate a DF. Adjust the RIT in Hz by indicated DF in Hz and turn the
      tol down to 100. (If using JT6M adjust tol to 50
      or 25Hz) These adjustments will help WSJT decode received pings better and
      improve your success.
      9. Common WSJT Mistakes: Mistake or typo in entering the callsign of the
      other station in the To Radio Pane. Everyone
      has probably done this before and when told or noticed adjust on the fly.
      The other station cannot progress to the next message
      until he has both calls correct.
      10. Common WSJT Mistakes: Calling CQ on frequency other than the recognized
      calling frequency. Many stations
      now listen on 144.140 or 50.260MHz for FSK441 meteor pings. Calling cq is
      good but do it where others listen.
      11. Common WSJT Mistakes: Listening to the call frequency for hours and
      giving up because "I don't hear anything". Working random
      contacts is hard. It is best to start off with a real time schedule on the
      Ping Jockey with a stations between 600 - 1000 miles apart.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO" <w5wvo@...>
      To: "'Russ K2TXB'" <k2txb@...>; <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com>; "Barry
      Garratt" <bgarratt@...>
      Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:52 PM
      Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] Working WSJT on HF

      > Russ, I'd like to pursue this a little further. You wrote,
      > "Years ago we spent a lot of time discussing this and the above is what
      > was
      > agreed to at the time. Over the years I suppose it could have gotten
      > perverted."
      > Russ, I've only been on WSJT meteor scatter for a little more than two
      > years, but since January 2008, at least, everyone has always included the
      > suffix of the station being worked, not one's own suffix. In other words,
      > it's been as Barry says for at least two years, probably a lot longer than
      > that. Tip or Bruce would be able to say how long, I'm sure.
      > So I'd like to know, in reference to your statement above,
      > (1) Who is "we" that discussed this and came to a different conlusion?
      > (2) How many years ago is "Years ago"?
      > (3) Does anyone else on the list remember those discussions, how they
      > went,
      > and what the upshot was?
      > FWIW, I think both you and Barry have valid points. You can't absolutely
      > preclude ANY possible confusion without including both suffixes in all
      > transmissions. So unless that is to be done (and I think most would agree
      > that is undesireable for MS work), one must choose one or the other. And
      > everybody needs to be on the same page with the same protocol.
      > Bill W5WVO
      > From: Barry Garratt
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:00 PM
      > To: 'Russ K2TXB' ; wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] Working WSJT on HF
      > No not really Russ. Quite often and especially during a contest or Es
      > opening with JT6M I will work more than one station at a time. Under those
      > conditions how do the stations know who I'm directing the traffic to.
      > W6OUU
      > and WA5UFH are both working me and I receive my report okay from W6OUU but
      > still don't have it from WA5UFH so by your definition I would send DX RRR
      > DX
      > R-26. That tells W6OUU that I got his report and tells Tip I still need
      > his.
      > How do they know what is for them? Does W6OUU think I missed his report so
      > he sends it again or do they both think I got it so the DX RRR is for
      > them?
      > Whereas if I send OUU RRR UFH R-26 there is no question who I'm directing
      > things to.
      > I'll go and look at the SOP on the WSJT site but in all honesty I've never
      > seen it done the way you are proposing.
      > Cheers,
      > Barry KS7DX
      > From: Russ K2TXB [mailto:k2txb@...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:34 PM
      > To: 'Barry Garratt'; wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] Working WSJT on HF
      > Barry KS7DX wrote:
      >> Okay Russ let's say as you point out I'm calling CQ and W6OUU answers me
      >> and
      >> KS7S also answers me. I send W6OUU 26 KS7DX 2626. I then receive DX R-26
      >> and reply
      >> with OUU RRR.
      >> Does your way mean the TX2 I sent to W6OUU means he sends me OUU R-26?
      >> And
      >> I respond
      >> with DX RRR? With both or even more stations on frequency who is the DX
      >> RRR being
      >> sent for? And by the same token if W6OUU is sending OUU R-26 who is that
      >> for?
      >> Is it for me or someone else on freq? I can see where your way would be
      >> very confusing
      >> with many stations on the same freq using their own suffix. Who is
      >> actually working whom?
      > Barry, the thing is that you have already exchanged calls with the station
      > you are attempting to work. Otherwise you would not be sending reports
      > yet.
      > So at this point you know who you are working and so does he. Therefore
      > if
      > he receives your "RRR DX" (or "DX RRR"), he knows it is for him since he
      > already copied your call and his together.
      > Others who receive that message know that they are not working you and so
      > they ignore it. Those other stations do not need to know who the message
      > was intended for. They only need to know that the message is not from a
      > station that they are working.
      > Clear?
      > 73, Russ K2TXB
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