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6250RE: [wsjtgroup] Tx1 ... Why add to it?

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  • Jim Kennedy
    Aug 1, 2009

      Hi Gang, I agree with both Tip and Al for the same reasons. The pings are short enough in most cases without cluttering it up with unnecessary data. The WSJT manual was well thought out and is effective whether using the grid or signal report format.  Use what is recommended in the manual and you can’t go wrong. My nickels worth.


      Jim W6OUU DN22sn


      -----Original Message-----
      From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al
      Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:05 PM
      To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com; Randy Tipton
      Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] Tx1 ... Why add to it?



      Hi Tip and the MS gang:


      I do not see how a grid gets into TX1 except in JT65B. The options menu plainly states that the two message templates are for FSK441 and JT6M, and neither message template puts the grid in TX1. SO, anyone sending their grid in TX1 has entered it manually - either in the template area or by typing it into TX1. Not good.


      Like you said, the grid can be seen in TX2 or TX3 if the grid option is chosen. It does not belong in TX1.


      Consider this "mind set":

      I work a lot of EME.  JT65 A B C etc. has the grid in TX1. "Hmmm, I wonder why it isn't in TX1 on FSK441 or JT6M -- I'll just put it there -- if it is good for EME then it must be good for HSMS." NOT!


      Anyhow, I couldn't help but agree with you and throw in my two cents in. Use the canned messages only.







      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 1:47 PM

      Subject: [wsjtgroup] Tx1 ... Why add to it?



      Not a big issue but lets consider this...

      The use of the "Grid" square in Tx1 message has fooled me a few times.
      The SOP & messages as designed are supposed to be bullet proof. That is
      there should be no reason to doubt any message received provided the SOP
      is being followed.

      I know several are using the "Grid" format in Tx1. I am not "picking on
      anyone" but am questioning the practice. (If it is good we should all be
      using it) Could be I am missing something and it is a good thing adding
      to messages. I am interested in hearing what others think.

      I believe we are 'drifting' away from the SOP and that I believe will bring
      question to our contacts and accomplishments.

      Lets say a station K5ME is sending CQ. I answer him with Tx1. After 20
      minutes I receive partial calls and 10 minutes latter I receive his call
      plus grid.
      It might look like this...
      KGME WA5UFH (First Decode after 20 minutes or more)
      K5ME EM00 (second ping received ...)

      Now I think, ok he is using "Grid" as report. A complete message would
      be in my mind at the time that he is sending ...
      WA5UFH EM00 K5ME EM00EM00

      I now have both calls and it appears he is sending something different. I
      really don't know what is going on except to assume he is using "Grids"
      as reports or he has a "non-standard" message Tx1entered.

      If I assumed the EM00 was his report and start sending His Rgr plus Report I
      am wrong... he is still sending Tx1 with a "non-standard msg" ... busted

      I assume K5ME is "Portable" or "Using Grids as a Reports ... "This should
      not happen... If I assume it is part of msg tx2 them I move to tx3 ...
      bottom line is a busted contact.

      I believe the use of "Grid" in Tx1 serves no purpose. If the contact is a
      schedule the other station already knows your Grid. If a Random contact
      it doesn't matter since the station decoding already has a good enough
      antenna az direction to complete a qso and decode because he already
      has decoded both calls. Antenna az pointing is not that critical but that is
      another issue.

      The use of grids as a report does have a place in HSMS. I believe it has two
      good uses.

      Grids are used as reports in most contests and by rovers but notice they are
      not necessary in message Tx1 even for these situations. Not all rovers are
      using PJ and the Grid as a Report works great to let the other person know
      I am possibly in a new grid or am a new initial contact for them while
      that "Unknown" piece of information required for a "contact". In this case
      standard reports 26 and 27 are not exchanged.

      During contests it is a required part of the contact exchange so using
      it as a "Rpt" serves both purposes. I have worked N5SIX rover in many grids
      and I captured all those grids in his "Report" or "CQ". Rovers may wish to
      use their grid
      in a CQ but it can cause confusion if repeated in Tx1.

      With six meters there might be less concern for message length but the
      SOP should be followed. For two meters the message length is more important.
      I have had busted contacts on two meters because I never got Both Calls but
      did get a single call with a "Grid"! Receiving A5UFH K5ME EM00 is
      frustrating after running 20 - 30 minutes into a schedule. I needed both
      and had the ping width large enough to get the missing "W" but instead I got
      a "Grid".

      The below is copied from the SOP:

      The same as for any mode of operation or propagation - an exchange of both
      call signs, an exchange of some type of information or report, and an
      exchange of confirmation of reception of the report or information. "

      (Somewhere the ARRL has documented what constitutes a contact. I could
      not find that definition but the above is close to its wording.

      The "Some type of information" could be a wx report, single report, first
      name, State etc. but with HSMS using FSK441 it is 26 or 27. The exception is
      during a contest requiring grid square exchange or maybe a portable station
      not using
      PJ. Rovers or Portable stations using "PJ assist" generally use standard
      and share the Grid location on the logger.

      When using Grid as a report, only use the first (4) characters. I have
      some who sent (6)! Example: R EL19pa R EL19pa ... too much hi

      I believe we should reframe from using the Grid in Tx1 because it clearly
      is not needed or required and can only add confusion. I would be interested
      in seeing how others feel about this issue.

      We all have taken the liberty of using the 73 message or after the final
      Rogers are received by both stations to send short messages. TNX QSO
      or NICE PINGS etc.

      My thoughts on Tx1 msg's in a nut shell... Use only the Tx1 canned message
      for all situations.


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