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Re: [wpmac] conversions

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  • Geoff Gilbert
    Original WPMac file - 125kb Resulting Word File - 237kb That s a lot of middle-aged spread -- Geoff Gilbert Professor of Law Editor-in-Chief, International
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 19, 2013
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      Original WPMac file - 125kb
      Resulting Word File - 237kb
      That's a lot of middle-aged spread
      --
      Geoff Gilbert
      Professor of Law
      Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Refugee Law
      Head of the School of Law
      School of Law and Human Rights Centre
      University of Essex
      Wivenhoe Park
      Colchester
      CO4 3SQ

      Tel: +44 (0)1206 872557
      Fax: +44 (0)1206 873428
      Email: geoff (for those outside the University, add @ followed by
      essex.ac.uk)



      > Paul Cowan <mailto:officewallah@...>
      > 19 August 2013 14:53
      > On 17 August 2013 at 10:45 AM, Geoff Gilbert
      > <geoff@...="mailto:geoff@...">> wrote:
      >
      > OK, so I took a WP Mac file from 2010, 16000 words, about 100 footnotes,
      >
      > and indented quotes all over the place, and converted it via the 5
      >
      > August WPLO Converter to a .doc file. I opened that in Word 2011 for the
      >
      > Mac. Formatting and fonts were perfectly preserved; the footnotes came
      >
      > across, but the cross-referencing was lost, but that happens when you
      >
      > convert from WPWin X5 to Word.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Be interesting to know what the file sizes were. I remember that Word
      > files saved with the WP converter were a bit on the huge size...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > P. (^_^)
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      > .
      >
      > Geoff Gilbert <mailto:Geoff@...>
      > 17 August 2013 15:44
      > OK, so I took a WP Mac file from 2010, 16000 words, about 100 footnotes,
      > and indented quotes all over the place, and converted it via the 5
      > August WPLO Converter to a .doc file. I opened that in Word 2011 for the
      > Mac. Formatting and fonts were perfectly preserved; the footnotes came
      > across, but the cross-referencing was lost, but that happens when you
      > convert from WPWin X5 to Word. (If you Save As ... Word 6, 7, 8 in
      > WPMac, the formatting is wrecked).
      > Verdict: for those using WPMac but who are forced by publishers to
      > submit in Word, then WPWin under Parallels offers no advantages and load
      > up time is just a delay you can live without. Clearly, if you have WPWin
      > files, there is an immense advantage to retaining WPWin via Parallels,
      > but otherwiseWPMac seems to offer everything you might ever need as an
      > academic (although, trying to find a font in ShSh Classic that does
      > eastern european diacritical letters is less straightforward than under
      > OSX, so now to explore the latest thread on using OSX fonts).
      > Geoff


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul Cowan
      On 19 August 2013 at 5:26 PM, Geoff Gilbert wrote: Original WPMac file - 125kb  Resulting Word File - 237kb 
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 19, 2013
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        On 19 August 2013 at 5:26 PM, Geoff Gilbert <geoff@...="mailto:geoff@...">> wrote:
        Original WPMac file - 125kb 
        Resulting Word File - 237kb 
        That's a lot of middle-aged spread
        Thanks for checking. Inflation factor used to be way bigger 'n that. As in, a megabyte or two…


        cheers,





        P. (^_^)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • em315
        What happens when you open it in Word 5.x or whatever in SheepShaver and then open again in Word in OS X? (And does the file size make any practical difference
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 19, 2013
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          What happens when you open it in Word 5.x or whatever in SheepShaver and then open again in Word in OS X? (And does the file size make any practical difference in the era of large hard disks? Presumably no one is sending these files on floppies.)

          --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Gilbert <Geoff@...> wrote:
          >
          > Original WPMac file - 125kb
          > Resulting Word File - 237kb
          > That's a lot of middle-aged spread
          > --
          > Geoff Gilbert
          > Professor of Law
          > Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Refugee Law
          > Head of the School of Law
          > School of Law and Human Rights Centre
          > University of Essex
          > Wivenhoe Park
          > Colchester
          > CO4 3SQ
          >
          > Tel: +44 (0)1206 872557
          > Fax: +44 (0)1206 873428
          > Email: geoff (for those outside the University, add @ followed by
          > essex.ac.uk)
          >
          >
          >
          > > Paul Cowan <mailto:officewallah@...>
          > > 19 August 2013 14:53
          > > On 17 August 2013 at 10:45 AM, Geoff Gilbert
          > > <geoff@...="mailto:geoff@...">> wrote:
          > >
          > > OK, so I took a WP Mac file from 2010, 16000 words, about 100 footnotes,
          > >
          > > and indented quotes all over the place, and converted it via the 5
          > >
          > > August WPLO Converter to a .doc file. I opened that in Word 2011 for the
          > >
          > > Mac. Formatting and fonts were perfectly preserved; the footnotes came
          > >
          > > across, but the cross-referencing was lost, but that happens when you
          > >
          > > convert from WPWin X5 to Word.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Be interesting to know what the file sizes were. I remember that Word
          > > files saved with the WP converter were a bit on the huge size...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > P. (^_^)
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > .
          > >
          > > Geoff Gilbert <mailto:Geoff@...>
          > > 17 August 2013 15:44
          > > OK, so I took a WP Mac file from 2010, 16000 words, about 100 footnotes,
          > > and indented quotes all over the place, and converted it via the 5
          > > August WPLO Converter to a .doc file. I opened that in Word 2011 for the
          > > Mac. Formatting and fonts were perfectly preserved; the footnotes came
          > > across, but the cross-referencing was lost, but that happens when you
          > > convert from WPWin X5 to Word. (If you Save As ... Word 6, 7, 8 in
          > > WPMac, the formatting is wrecked).
          > > Verdict: for those using WPMac but who are forced by publishers to
          > > submit in Word, then WPWin under Parallels offers no advantages and load
          > > up time is just a delay you can live without. Clearly, if you have WPWin
          > > files, there is an immense advantage to retaining WPWin via Parallels,
          > > but otherwiseWPMac seems to offer everything you might ever need as an
          > > academic (although, trying to find a font in ShSh Classic that does
          > > eastern european diacritical letters is less straightforward than under
          > > OSX, so now to explore the latest thread on using OSX fonts).
          > > Geoff
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Paul Cowan
          (And does the file size make any practical difference in the era of large hard disks? Presumably no one is sending these files on floppies.) ​ I know, but
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 19, 2013
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            (And does the file size make any practical difference in the era of large hard disks? Presumably no one is sending these files on floppies.)




            I know, but it's a question of elegance. It used to be that opening a WordPerfect file in OpenOffice, translating it, then opening the resulting file in WordPerfect, produced a much more idiomatic (and smaller) WordPerfect file than if you'd used the built-in converters. Maybe it's so to this day… Probably nobody cares, but hey.





            cheers,





            P. (^_^)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Geoff Gilbert
            I only have Word in OSX, but even when I was using both in OS9 before X sullied my computer, Word files were always larger. No consequence whatsoever from the
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 19, 2013
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              I only have Word in OSX, but even when I was using both in OS9 before X
              sullied my computer, Word files were always larger.
              No consequence whatsoever from the size gain, but it is indicative that
              either the Word file has a lot more meta information hidden away or
              coders are getting less efficient because space is no longer an issue.
              --
              Geoff Gilbert
              Professor of Law
              Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Refugee Law
              Head of the School of Law
              School of Law and Human Rights Centre
              University of Essex
              Wivenhoe Park
              Colchester
              CO4 3SQ

              Tel: +44 (0)1206 872557
              Fax: +44 (0)1206 873428
              Email: geoff (for those outside the University, add @ followed by
              essex.ac.uk)



              > em315 <mailto:em315@...>
              > 20 August 2013 01:48
              > What happens when you open it in Word 5.x or whatever in SheepShaver
              > and then open again in Word in OS X? (And does the file size make any
              > practical difference in the era of large hard disks? Presumably no one
              > is sending these files on floppies.)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              > .
              >
              > Geoff Gilbert <mailto:Geoff@...>
              > 19 August 2013 19:02
              > Original WPMac file - 125kb
              > Resulting Word File - 237kb
              > That's a lot of middle-aged spread


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • em315
              When a WP file is converted to Word, by any method, each paragraph of the file gets formatted separately, with a lot of formatting data necessarily added to
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 20, 2013
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                When a WP file is converted to Word, by any method, each paragraph of the file gets formatted separately, with a lot of formatting data necessarily added to the file. There are perfectly good technical reasons for this, and it has nothing to do with Word being better or worse; only that it uses a different underlying model.

                But we can agree that the size difference has absolutely no practical significance.

                --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Gilbert <Geoff@...> wrote:
                >
                > I only have Word in OSX, but even when I was using both in OS9 before X
                > sullied my computer, Word files were always larger.
                > No consequence whatsoever from the size gain, but it is indicative that
                > either the Word file has a lot more meta information hidden away or
                > coders are getting less efficient because space is no longer an issue.
                > --
                > Geoff Gilbert
                > Professor of Law
                > Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Refugee Law
                > Head of the School of Law
                > School of Law and Human Rights Centre
                > University of Essex
                > Wivenhoe Park
                > Colchester
                > CO4 3SQ
                >
                > Tel: +44 (0)1206 872557
                > Fax: +44 (0)1206 873428
                > Email: geoff (for those outside the University, add @ followed by
                > essex.ac.uk)
                >
                >
                >
                > > em315 <mailto:em315@...>
                > > 20 August 2013 01:48
                > > What happens when you open it in Word 5.x or whatever in SheepShaver
                > > and then open again in Word in OS X? (And does the file size make any
                > > practical difference in the era of large hard disks? Presumably no one
                > > is sending these files on floppies.)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > .
                > >
                > > Geoff Gilbert <mailto:Geoff@...>
                > > 19 August 2013 19:02
                > > Original WPMac file - 125kb
                > > Resulting Word File - 237kb
                > > That's a lot of middle-aged spread
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Gilbert, Geoff
                Does word format by paragraph while WP formats by character? It is the fact I learned all my formatting in WP and that has meant I have always found it hard to
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 20, 2013
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                  Does word format by paragraph while WP formats by character? It is the fact I learned all my formatting in WP and that has meant I have always found it hard to fix Word files when they go out of kilter
                  Geoff

                  On 20 Aug 2013, at 12:36, "em315" <em315@...> wrote:

                  > When a WP file is converted to Word, by any method, each paragraph of the file gets formatted separately, with a lot of formatting data necessarily added to the file. There are perfectly good technical reasons for this, and it has nothing to do with Word being better or worse; only that it uses a different underlying model.
                  >
                  > But we can agree that the size difference has absolutely no practical significance.
                  >
                  > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Gilbert <Geoff@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> I only have Word in OSX, but even when I was using both in OS9 before X
                  >> sullied my computer, Word files were always larger.
                  >> No consequence whatsoever from the size gain, but it is indicative that
                  >> either the Word file has a lot more meta information hidden away or
                  >> coders are getting less efficient because space is no longer an issue.
                  >> --
                  >> Geoff Gilbert
                  >> Professor of Law
                  >> Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Refugee Law
                  >> Head of the School of Law
                  >> School of Law and Human Rights Centre
                  >> University of Essex
                  >> Wivenhoe Park
                  >> Colchester
                  >> CO4 3SQ
                  >>
                  >> Tel: +44 (0)1206 872557
                  >> Fax: +44 (0)1206 873428
                  >> Email: geoff (for those outside the University, add @ followed by
                  >> essex.ac.uk)
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>> em315 <mailto:em315@...>
                  >>> 20 August 2013 01:48
                  >>> What happens when you open it in Word 5.x or whatever in SheepShaver
                  >>> and then open again in Word in OS X? (And does the file size make any
                  >>> practical difference in the era of large hard disks? Presumably no one
                  >>> is sending these files on floppies.)
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>
                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> .
                  >>>
                  >>> Geoff Gilbert <mailto:Geoff@...>
                  >>> 19 August 2013 19:02
                  >>> Original WPMac file - 125kb
                  >>> Resulting Word File - 237kb
                  >>> That's a lot of middle-aged spread
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • em315
                  You can search the web for very clear explanations, including one in this long-ago article from PC Magazine
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 20, 2013
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                    You can search the web for very clear explanations, including one in
                    this long-ago article from PC Magazine
                    <http://books.google.com/books?id=yXP6iwM_W-kC&pg=PT98&dq=%22twice+about\
                    +your+choice+of+a+word+processor%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4WsTUvChOMTQyAGjmIHgBQ\
                    &ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22twice%20about%20your%20choice%20of%20a%2\
                    0word%20processor%22&f=false> . The details are on pp. 98-99.
                    --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert, Geoff" wrote:
                    >
                    > Does word format by paragraph while WP formats by character? It is the
                    fact I learned all my formatting in WP and that has meant I have always
                    found it hard to fix Word files when they go out of kilter
                    > Geoff








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John Kaufmann
                    ... Good that you care. Inelegance has functional costs, and the costs compound with time and generations.
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 21, 2013
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                      In a message dated 2013-0819 22:18 -0500, Paul Cowan wrote:

                      >> (And does the file size make any practical difference in the era of large hard disks? Presumably no one is sending these files on floppies.)
                      >
                      > ... it's a question of elegance. ..… Probably nobody cares, but hey.

                      Good that you care. Inelegance has functional costs, and the costs compound with
                      time and generations.
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