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Re: WP > web browser: doesn't work

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  • sardisson
    ... It later occurred to me that event dispatch might work differently in pure Mac OS inside SheepShaver than with Classic+Mac OS X, so you probably want to
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 17 10:27 AM
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      --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Smokey Ardisson wrote:
      > Unfortunately, it seems like when this event pair
      > goes to an AppleScript application, the events
      > are lost (perhaps waiting for the app to launch,
      > since we're installing handlers only after the
      > app is fully running?). This seems to be a
      > limitation of the particular circumstances of
      > event dispatch we're encountering here, since,
      > e.g., a Mac OS X AppleScript app handling "open
      > location" events from other Mac OS X apps works
      > fine.
      >
      > However, you can work around this by making the
      > app "Stay Open" and then launching it manually
      > first (or, if you just make it "Stay Open", then

      It later occurred to me that event dispatch might work differently in "pure" Mac OS inside SheepShaver than with Classic+Mac OS X, so you probably want to double-check that the initial WWW!OURL still gets lost before doing "Stay Open". That said, I expect that the problem *will* still exist if I'm close to being right about its cause…

      Smokey
    • em315
      Smokey, Brilliant detective work!! Doesn t this suggest that it should be possible to take the routine that you described and add it to the script that s
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 17 1:46 PM
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        Smokey,

        Brilliant detective work!! Doesn't this suggest that it should be possible to take the routine that you described and add it to the script that's already running in the background in SheepShaver-WP?

        --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Smokey Ardisson <smokey.ardisson@...> wrote:
        > As near as I can tell with the crude debugging
        > tools available (WP + Classic + Mac OS X dummy
        > app + AEDebugReceives), what WP does is send
        > WWW!CNCL followed by WWW!OURL. (WP doesn't
        > actually send run; seeing the run handler execute
        > is an artifact of the OS sending the oapp event
        > to launch the app.)
        >
        > Unfortunately, it seems like when this event pair
        > goes to an AppleScript application, the events
        > are lost (perhaps waiting for the app to launch,
        > since we're installing handlers only after the
        > app is fully running?). This seems to be a
        > limitation of the particular circumstances of
        > event dispatch we're encountering here, since,
        > e.g., a Mac OS X AppleScript app handling "open
        > location" events from other Mac OS X apps works
        > fine.
        >
        > However, you can work around this by making the
        > app "Stay Open" and then launching it manually
        > first (or, if you just make it "Stay Open", then
        > the first click's URL gets lost, but any
        > subsequent ones succeed). So your applet needs
        > to be:
        >
        > on «event WWW!OURL» inURL
        > --do stuff with inURL here
        > end «event WWW!OURL»
        >
        > and saved as "Stay Open".
      • John R
        Works! Not only that, we already have a stay-open script running, to look for text files from Open WP Files , so I just have this handler write the URL to a
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 17 1:48 PM
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          Works!

          Not only that, we already have a stay-open script running, to look for text files from "Open WP Files", so I just have this handler write the URL to a text file and drop it in the watched folder on the OSX side, as I do with dictionary lookup entries. Runs like a charm.

          _So_ cool! WP's integration with OSX is very nice to have.

          Thanks so much, Smokey and Ed. This will be part of the next update to Sheepshaver-WordPerfect Install, which will also support the fine Nisus Thesaurus just as it now supports Apple's OSX Dictionary, and which will have a 1gb volume, and some other neat stuff.

          I'll also work up a script for OSX Classic systems, so WP can send URLs to browsers that are packages rather than simple files, i.e. most or all of them.

          Thanks again,
          John R.


          --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Smokey Ardisson <smokey.ardisson@...> wrote:

          > on «event WWW!OURL» inURL
          > --do stuff with inURL here
          > end «event WWW!OURL»
          >
          > and saved as "Stay Open".
          >
          > Smokey
          >
        • John R
          ... OS 10.4 running Classic needs a stay-open script. Sheepshaver does not. Interesting. ... everything else of that era) to send the old Spyglass open url
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 18 11:13 PM
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            --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "sardisson" <smokey.ardisson@...> wrote:

            > It later occurred to me that event dispatch might work differently in "pure" Mac OS inside SheepShaver than with Classic+Mac OS X, so you probably want to double-check that the initial WWW!OURL still gets lost before doing "Stay Open". That said, I expect that the problem *will* still exist if I'm close to being right about its cause…

            OS 10.4 running Classic needs a stay-open script. Sheepshaver does not. Interesting.

            >I would have expected WP (and
            everything else of that era) to send the old
            Spyglass "open url" (WWW!OURL) event

            Just curious, what does Spyglass mean here?

            John R.
          • em315
            Spyglass Mosaic was one of the first commercial web browsers; it was a licensed version of NCSA Mosaic (the first graphical browser).
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 19 6:20 AM
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              Spyglass Mosaic was one of the first commercial web browsers; it was a licensed version of NCSA Mosaic (the first graphical browser).

              --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "John R" <johnrethorst@...> wrote:
              >
              > >I would have expected WP (and
              > everything else of that era) to send the old
              > Spyglass "open url" (WWW!OURL) event
              >
              > Just curious, what does Spyglass mean here?
            • Smokey Ardisson
              ... Interesting, indeed. It doesn t entirely surprise me, although it s sort-of sad that Classic was broken in that way, given the excellent integration it
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 19 1:24 PM
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                On Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:13 pm ((PDT)), "John R" <johnrethorst@...> wrote:

                >--- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com,
                >"sardisson" <smokey.ardisson@...> wrote:
                >
                >> It later occurred to me that event dispatch
                >>might work differently in "pure" Mac OS inside
                >>SheepShaver than with Classic+Mac OS X, so you
                >>probably want to double-check that the initial
                >>WWW!OURL still gets lost before doing "Stay
                >>Open". That said, I expect that the problem
                >>*will* still exist if I'm close to being right
                >>about its cause…
                >
                >OS 10.4 running Classic needs a stay-open
                >script. Sheepshaver does not. Interesting.

                Interesting, indeed. It doesn't entirely
                surprise me, although it's sort-of sad that
                Classic was broken in that way, given the
                excellent integration it had with Mac OS X
                ("sort-of" because I'm sure writing an AppleEvent
                handler in AppleScript is an edge case, and doing
                it to support hooking Classic apps up to modern
                browsers even moreso ;-) ).

                >>I would have expected WP (and
                >everything else of that era) to send the old
                >Spyglass "open url" (WWW!OURL) event
                >
                >Just curious, what does Spyglass mean here?

                Back in the early 90s, Spyglass introduced an API
                for OS integration for web browsers (and
                implemented the API in its commercial Mosaic
                variant on the Mac and Windows; Microsoft would
                later license Spyglass Mosaic as the basis for
                early versions of IE); the API used to be
                described at
                http://www.spyglass.com:4040/newtechnology/integration/iapi.htm,
                but a copy can today be found at
                http://www3.di.uminho.pt/~fln/NetscapeAPI/iapi.html.
                On the Mac it was implemented as an AppleScript
                suite and is commonly called "the Spyglass Suite".

                "Classic" Netscape and IE supported it, or most
                of it, OmniWeb supported some of it, and older
                versions of iCab appeared to have the most
                complete implementation of the suite (iCab 4 has
                only a small subset). Although Mozilla had an
                implementation, it was not complete or was not
                hooked up (I'm not sure which), so neither
                Mozilla/Mozilla-based Netscapes nor later Firefox
                supported the Spyglass suite, and Safari only has
                hidden support for the WWW!OURL event, so the
                suite eventually died out. Up through about
                Adobe's version 5 of Dreamweaver, Dreamweaver
                still sent that event, but an Adobe developer
                told me a few years ago the next version would
                finally switch to GURLGURL.

                Another early internet-related AppleScript suite
                definition is the URL suite, defined by John
                Norstad and others:
                http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/mac/comm/newswatcher/url-ae-standard-1-1.txt
                GetURL (GURLGURL) itself survived as "open
                location" in the OS, but the rest of the suite
                had only limited support in the big browsers, so
                it also pretty much withered away by the time we
                made it to Mac OS X

                So ends today's lesson on the history of web
                browser AppleScripting; class dismissed! :-)

                Smokey
              • Chris Harshman
                ... Mosaic wasn t the first graphical browser; I know Viola came before it, and I think there was another project that TBL was in some way affiliated with that
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 19 4:23 PM
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                  On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 6:20 AM, em315 <em315@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  > Spyglass Mosaic was one of the first commercial web browsers; it was a
                  > licensed version of NCSA Mosaic (the first graphical browser).
                  >

                  Mosaic wasn't the first graphical browser; I know Viola came before it, and
                  I think there was another project that TBL was in some way affiliated with
                  that was even earlier, and ran on DEC Ultrix machines (it was installed on
                  a microVAX 3100 when I was an undergrad)... But it was the first successful
                  browser. Marc Andreesen was one of (if not the?) principal developer of
                  Mosaic while he was a student at NCSA/UIUC (anyone remember when NCSA
                  Telnet was a required Mac application, back before SSH became a de facto
                  requirement?), and then took his skills to Sili Valley to launch Netscape.

                  Also, Spyglass Mosaic only shared a name with NCSA Mosaic. Spyglass Mosaic
                  went on to become Internet Explorer. NCSA Mosaic begat Netscape Navigator
                  (though Netscape did not use any NCSA code, IIRC).

                  "I was *there*, man..." (My first 'web' experience was on VT220 terminals
                  running Lynx; Mosaic-on-Motif on a Novell UnixWare workstation was
                  heavenly. Netscape 1.1n on my System 7-era Macintosh was the bomb dignity.
                  altavista.digital.com "FTW," as they say... Before the Google.
                  Contemporaneous with the Eternal September... ;)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John R
                  It s great to have such knowledgeable people here. Thanks again, Smokey. John R.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 19 4:49 PM
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                    It's great to have such knowledgeable people here. Thanks again, Smokey.

                    John R.



                    --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Smokey Ardisson <smokey.ardisson@...> wrote:

                    > Interesting, indeed. It doesn't entirely
                    > surprise me, although it's sort-of sad that
                    > Classic was broken in that way, given the
                    > excellent integration it had with Mac OS X
                    > ("sort-of" because I'm sure writing an AppleEvent
                    > handler in AppleScript is an edge case, and doing
                    > it to support hooking Classic apps up to modern
                    > browsers even moreso ;-) ).
                    >
                    > >>I would have expected WP (and
                    > >everything else of that era) to send the old
                    > >Spyglass "open url" (WWW!OURL) event
                    > >
                    > >Just curious, what does Spyglass mean here?
                    >
                    > Back in the early 90s, Spyglass introduced an API
                    > for OS integration for web browsers (and
                    > implemented the API in its commercial Mosaic
                    > variant on the Mac and Windows; Microsoft would
                    > later license Spyglass Mosaic as the basis for
                    > early versions of IE); the API used to be
                    > described at
                    > http://www.spyglass.com:4040/newtechnology/integration/iapi.htm,
                    > but a copy can today be found at
                    > http://www3.di.uminho.pt/~fln/NetscapeAPI/iapi.html.
                    > On the Mac it was implemented as an AppleScript
                    > suite and is commonly called "the Spyglass Suite".
                    >
                    > "Classic" Netscape and IE supported it, or most
                    > of it, OmniWeb supported some of it, and older
                    > versions of iCab appeared to have the most
                    > complete implementation of the suite (iCab 4 has
                    > only a small subset). Although Mozilla had an
                    > implementation, it was not complete or was not
                    > hooked up (I'm not sure which), so neither
                    > Mozilla/Mozilla-based Netscapes nor later Firefox
                    > supported the Spyglass suite, and Safari only has
                    > hidden support for the WWW!OURL event, so the
                    > suite eventually died out. Up through about
                    > Adobe's version 5 of Dreamweaver, Dreamweaver
                    > still sent that event, but an Adobe developer
                    > told me a few years ago the next version would
                    > finally switch to GURLGURL.
                    >
                    > Another early internet-related AppleScript suite
                    > definition is the URL suite, defined by John
                    > Norstad and others:
                    > http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/mac/comm/newswatcher/url-ae-standard-1-1.txt
                    > GetURL (GURLGURL) itself survived as "open
                    > location" in the OS, but the rest of the suite
                    > had only limited support in the big browsers, so
                    > it also pretty much withered away by the time we
                    > made it to Mac OS X
                    >
                    > So ends today's lesson on the history of web
                    > browser AppleScripting; class dismissed! :-)
                    >
                    > Smokey
                    >
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