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[OT] Long an Upstart, Apple Plays New Role: Goliath (NY Times)

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  • jrethorst
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/24/technology/24apple.html?ref=global-home New York Times, June 23, 2010 By MIGUEL HELFT SAN FRANCISCO — As Apple fans line up
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 23, 2010
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      http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/24/technology/24apple.html?ref=global-home

      New York Times, June 23, 2010

      By MIGUEL HELFT

      SAN FRANCISCO — As Apple fans line up at stores on Thursday morning for the fourth iteration of the iPhone, the company is riding high.

      And it's not just the iPhone. Sales of the iPad tablet are strong too, and Apple has surged past Microsoft to become the most valuable company in the technology industry.

      But as one success follows another, Apple finds itself in a bewildering position. As the tech industry's perennial underdog, it was frequently scorned and dismissed by larger and more successful competitors like Microsoft or Dell. Now, with growing frequency, the company is seen by competitors and other industry players as a bully.

      Companies like Google and Adobe have accused Apple of unfairly using its clout to exclude their technologies from the iPhone and iPad. And some application developers are fretting under Apple's tight control of those devices, even though many of those developers built their fortunes on the popular gadgets.

      But perhaps in the clearest sign that Apple has emerged as an industry superpower, government regulators are beginning to scrutinize its every move.

      "This is unfamiliar territory for Apple," said Tim Bajarin, president of Creative Strategies, who has followed Apple for nearly three decades.

      The changes are a testament to the remarkable turnaround orchestrated by Steven P. Jobs, who returned to Apple more than a decade ago when the company was on the verge of extinction. But those changes have also thrust the company into an unexpected and potentially perilous role as competitors start to cooperate with each other against Apple.

      For all the complaining, Apple's self-interested and quirky pursuit of innovation is not new. Time and again, it has been willing to break with technology industry standards by doing things its way, even if it ruffled feathers. "Apple has always marched to its own drumbeat," Mr. Bajarin said.

      The company often irked suppliers and confounded pundits, for instance, when it chose to use 3.5-inch floppy disks instead of the more common 5.25-inch disks, or later, when it did away with floppy disks altogether.

      But now that Apple has grown from a niche player into one that leads the fastest-growing segment of the industry — mobile computing — its actions are far more consequential and the complaints have turned to grievances.

      "People used to say, `Apple is crazy, they are making a big mistake,' " said Paul Saffo, a veteran Silicon Valley technology forecaster. "Now they are saying Apple is trying to kill competition."

      The complaints are in some ways surprising because Apple, for now, is far from reaching the kind of dominant position enjoyed by Microsoft in PCs or Google in online advertising.

      While the iPod and iTunes lead the market for music players and online distribution of music, Apple remains a small player in PC sales. It is only now entering the digital advertising business and the sale of electronic books.

      Even in smartphones, it lags behind Research In Motion, maker of the BlackBerry, though its devices dominate the market for mobile applications.

      Perhaps the loudest complaints this year came after Apple barred some third-party programming tools from the iPad, including Adobe's Flash software, which is widely used to create online videos and Web applications.

      The decision led to a very public war of words between Adobe and Mr. Jobs. It also prompted the Federal Trade Commission to begin asking questions about the effect of Apple's decision on competition.

      "To ignore a major component of the Internet like Flash seems a little silly," said John Warnock, a founder of Adobe. Mr. Warnock said Mr. Jobs would have proceeded more cautiously when the company had less clout. "Apple does what it does," he said. "But I don't think that they would have made a decision like this 10 years ago."

      Mr. Jobs, who refused to comment for this article, has forcefully defended Apple's decision to exclude Flash, saying it was strictly for technical reasons. He disparaged Flash for consuming too much battery power and for its purported security flaws. And he said Apple was simply making a bet that the technology, while popular today, was quickly falling out of favor and would soon be overtaken by others.

      Customers "are paying us to make these choices," Mr. Jobs said during a recent public appearance.

      Perhaps Apple's swiftest and most startling transformation from underdog to looming monopolist came in the world of mobile ads, a market the company is just now entering.

      Just weeks ago, the F.T.C. was on the verge of blocking a merger between Google and AdMob, which specializes in placing ads inside iPhone apps. Regulators believed that the merger would give Google, the largest seller of online ads, a virtual lock on the small but fast-growing market for mobile phone ads.

      The commission approved the deal, but only after Apple acquired Quattro Wireless, an AdMob rival, and announced its own iAds advertising system for mobile phones, to be included with the iPhone 4.

      Then earlier this month, Apple appeared to make the switch from excluded to excluder in the mobile ad market. New policies for the iPhone 4 bar Google and AdMob from selling ads on the device, resulting in a complaint from Google, which was in the unusual position of playing victim.

      "Artificial barriers to competition hurt users and developers and, in the long run, stall technological progress," wrote Omar Hamoui, the chief executive of AdMob.

      After Mr. Hamoui's complaint, the trade commission expanded its investigation of Apple's practices to include iAds, according to people briefed on the matter who did not want to be identified because of the sensitivity of the investigation.

      The commission's inquiry is not the only one concerning potentially anticompetitive behavior by Apple. The Justice Department recently began a preliminary investigation into whether Apple pressured music labels to exclude Amazon.com, its rival in digital music distribution, from certain licensing agreements. And Apple is one of many Silicon Valley companies whose hiring practices are being examined by the department.

      The latest inquiry from the commission has raised eyebrows among some antitrust experts, in part because Apple currently controls less than a third of the smartphone market in the United States. R.I.M., with its BlackBerry, remains No. 1, and phones based on Google's Android software are quickly gaining acceptance with consumers and application developers. But some said the government was right to be concerned.

      "Apple has gotten really aggressive in trying to flex its muscles and trying to take advantage of its position in the market," said Andrew I. Gavil, an antitrust expert and professor of law at Howard University. "The question is whether they have gotten significant enough in any of these markets to affect competition. The answer appears to be yes."

      While Apple has created a large ecosystem that has made some application developers rich, many are now fretting that the company has too much control over the world it created.

      When an iPhone developer at Facebook announced recently that he was moving on because of Apple's restrictions, the influential technology blog TechCrunch ran a headline saying the person left "over Apple tyranny."

      And when the maker of a popular app pulled out of Apple's store in frustration over delays in approving a new version, he asked in a widely read blog post: "Was your intent to shut us down by playing the waiting game?"

      For Mitchell Kapor, who invests in technology start-ups including developers of mobile phone applications, it brings back memories of confronting Microsoft while running the Lotus Development Corporation in the 1980s.

      "The amount of resentment is very, very large," he said, "and reminiscent of the kind of resentment there was toward Microsoft when it was the platform an app developer had to be on."
    • David Patterson
      Not to defend any sort of monopolistic behavior, but I wish more developers would reject Flash. It wastes bandwidth, system resources, and my time watching
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 24, 2010
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        Not to defend any sort of monopolistic behavior, but I wish more
        developers would reject Flash. It wastes bandwidth, system resources,
        and my time watching junk when all I need is information.
        A large part of my decision to use WP instead of Word is based on the
        same feelings about dancing monitors and other garbage I don't need or
        want to do my work.
      • Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
        I find any crash I have with browsers are all caused by Flash. I went to two sites fellow was bragging because it was 100% Flash. And each I had the first
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 24, 2010
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          I find any crash I have with browsers are "all" caused by Flash.

          I went to two sites fellow was bragging because it was 100% Flash. And
          each I had the first system Crash I've had on a Mac in 10 years or more.
          It not only Crashed the browser it crashed the OS. Just to make sure it
          wasn't a Fluke, I went to both again and repeated the same behavior.

          I went back and reported the finding to the fellow and he got quiet in a
          hurry.

          David Patterson wrote:
          >
          >
          > Not to defend any sort of monopolistic behavior, but I wish more
          > developers would reject Flash. It wastes bandwidth, system resources,
          > and my time watching junk when all I need is information.
          > A large part of my decision to use WP instead of Word is based on the
          > same feelings about dancing monitors and other garbage I don't need or
          > want to do my work.
          >
          >

          --
          Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
          616 Liberty Street Martinsville, Va 24112-1809
          Phone: 276-632-5045 Cell: 276-732-7781 Fax: 276-632-0868
          http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1@...
        • Chad Smith
          Flash doesn t crash other OSes - just Mac. To me, I have to ask - is that a bug with Flash, or with Mac. IMHO - it s Apple s fault. I actually didn t have a
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 24, 2010
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            Flash doesn't crash other OSes - just Mac.

            To me, I have to ask - is that a bug with Flash, or with Mac. IMHO - it's
            Apple's fault.

            I actually didn't have a problem with Flash until the recent slew of updates
            that came out from Apple (IE - *after* the war of words between Jobs and
            Adobe).

            It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging Flash.

            Flash is an awesome tool. It can be overdone, of course. Just like
            anything. But when used well, it provides user experiences that no other
            tool can.

            - Chad W Smith
            "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February
            10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya


            On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. <
            pjones1@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > I find any crash I have with browsers are "all" caused by Flash.
            >
            > I went to two sites fellow was bragging because it was 100% Flash. And
            > each I had the first system Crash I've had on a Mac in 10 years or more.
            > It not only Crashed the browser it crashed the OS. Just to make sure it
            > wasn't a Fluke, I went to both again and repeated the same behavior.
            >
            > I went back and reported the finding to the fellow and he got quiet in a
            > hurry.
            >
            >
            > David Patterson wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Not to defend any sort of monopolistic behavior, but I wish more
            > > developers would reject Flash. It wastes bandwidth, system resources,
            > > and my time watching junk when all I need is information.
            > > A large part of my decision to use WP instead of Word is based on the
            > > same feelings about dancing monitors and other garbage I don't need or
            > > want to do my work.
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
            > 616 Liberty Street Martinsville, Va 24112-1809
            > Phone: 276-632-5045 Cell: 276-732-7781 Fax: 276-632-0868
            > http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1@...<pjones1%40kimbanet.com>
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
            Flash has always caused problems on the Mac even back when it was a tool fro Macromedia. I don t see Jobs or the Mac system engineers deliberately causing a
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 24, 2010
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              Flash has always caused problems on the Mac even back when it was a tool
              fro Macromedia.

              I don't see Jobs or the Mac system engineers deliberately causing a
              problem for years, that's just dumb logic. Jobs has been relatively
              patient. he ben waiting 10 years or more for MacrMedia then adobe to fix
              the problem.

              What time it doesn't crash it stops and stutters like a scratched CD or
              DVD. having skips and stutters for one thing the Cache file is just not
              large enough.

              I even use a smattering of flash on my website but its a very small file
              with no music or sound effects. When they get large and with sound then
              thing get hairy.

              Chad Smith wrote:
              >
              >
              > Flash doesn't crash other OSes - just Mac.
              >
              > To me, I have to ask - is that a bug with Flash, or with Mac. IMHO - it's
              > Apple's fault.
              >
              > I actually didn't have a problem with Flash until the recent slew of updates
              > that came out from Apple (IE - *after* the war of words between Jobs and
              > Adobe).
              >
              > It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging Flash.
              >
              > Flash is an awesome tool. It can be overdone, of course. Just like
              > anything. But when used well, it provides user experiences that no other
              > tool can.
              >
              > - Chad W Smith
              > "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February
              > 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya
              >
              > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. <
              > pjones1@... <mailto:pjones1%40kimbanet.com>> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > I find any crash I have with browsers are "all" caused by Flash.
              > >
              > > I went to two sites fellow was bragging because it was 100% Flash. And
              > > each I had the first system Crash I've had on a Mac in 10 years or more.
              > > It not only Crashed the browser it crashed the OS. Just to make sure it
              > > wasn't a Fluke, I went to both again and repeated the same behavior.
              > >
              > > I went back and reported the finding to the fellow and he got quiet in a
              > > hurry.
              > >
              > >
              > > David Patterson wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Not to defend any sort of monopolistic behavior, but I wish more
              > > > developers would reject Flash. It wastes bandwidth, system resources,
              > > > and my time watching junk when all I need is information.
              > > > A large part of my decision to use WP instead of Word is based on the
              > > > same feelings about dancing monitors and other garbage I don't need or
              > > > want to do my work.
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
              > > 616 Liberty Street Martinsville, Va 24112-1809
              > > Phone: 276-632-5045 Cell: 276-732-7781 Fax: 276-632-0868
              > > http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1@...
              > <mailto:pjones1%40kimbanet.com><pjones1%40kimbanet.com>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              --
              Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
              616 Liberty Street Martinsville, Va 24112-1809
              Phone: 276-632-5045 Cell: 276-732-7781 Fax: 276-632-0868
              http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1@...
            • Aron S. Spencer
              It crashes other OSes, too, just not as often. Adobe just hasn t put the effort into the Mac version. It s a freaking plugin, so it shouldn t have the massive
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 24, 2010
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                It crashes other OSes, too, just not as often. Adobe just hasn't put the effort into the Mac version. It's a freaking plugin, so it shouldn't have the massive memory leak problems it's had on Mac. Just bad programming.

                On Jun 24, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Chad Smith wrote:

                > Flash doesn't crash other OSes - just Mac.
                >
                > To me, I have to ask - is that a bug with Flash, or with Mac. IMHO - it's
                > Apple's fault.
                >
                > I actually didn't have a problem with Flash until the recent slew of updates
                > that came out from Apple (IE - *after* the war of words between Jobs and
                > Adobe).
                >
                > It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging Flash.
                >
                > Flash is an awesome tool. It can be overdone, of course. Just like
                > anything. But when used well, it provides user experiences that no other
                > tool can.
                >
                > - Chad W Smith
                > "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February
                > 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya
                >
                > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. <
                > pjones1@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > I find any crash I have with browsers are "all" caused by Flash.
                > >
                > > I went to two sites fellow was bragging because it was 100% Flash. And
                > > each I had the first system Crash I've had on a Mac in 10 years or more.
                > > It not only Crashed the browser it crashed the OS. Just to make sure it
                > > wasn't a Fluke, I went to both again and repeated the same behavior.
                > >
                > > I went back and reported the finding to the fellow and he got quiet in a
                > > hurry.
                > >
                > >
                > > David Patterson wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Not to defend any sort of monopolistic behavior, but I wish more
                > > > developers would reject Flash. It wastes bandwidth, system resources,
                > > > and my time watching junk when all I need is information.
                > > > A large part of my decision to use WP instead of Word is based on the
                > > > same feelings about dancing monitors and other garbage I don't need or
                > > > want to do my work.
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
                > > 616 Liberty Street Martinsville, Va 24112-1809
                > > Phone: 276-632-5045 Cell: 276-732-7781 Fax: 276-632-0868
                > > http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1@...<pjones1%40kimbanet.com>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >

                Aron S. Spencer
                Union, NJ 07083




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Frank Mitchell
                Hello Chad ... So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that? Saw on TV today that one of our illustrious senators is suggesting that the oil spill
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 25, 2010
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                  Hello Chad

                  >IMHO - it's Apple's fault.
                  >
                  >snip
                  >
                  >It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging Flash.

                  So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that?

                  Saw on TV today that one of our illustrious senators is suggesting that
                  the oil spill might have been deliberately caused by Obama.

                  -- Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
                • Chad Smith
                  Well, a lot, actually. On the iP_____ s specifically, by keeping Flash off the devices, they have killed a *TON* of competition. Who would buy episodes of The
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 25, 2010
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                    Well, a lot, actually.

                    On the iP_____'s specifically, by keeping Flash off the devices, they have
                    killed a *TON* of competition.

                    Who would buy episodes of "The Office" from the iTunes store, if they could
                    fire up Hulu and watch them for free?

                    Who would pay 99� for a game (1/2 or 1/3 of which goes to Apple, not the
                    developers) when the *exact same game* is free online in Flash?

                    Who would get an iAd supported game (all the money goes to Apple) if the
                    exact same game is free online Flash?

                    Or a very similar game is online for free in Flash.... One of the biggest
                    games for the iP___s has been Fieldrunners - Desktop Tower Defense has been
                    free online for years - but it is in Flash.

                    How much money do you think Apple will make from the Farmville app?
                    Farmville is free and full-featured in Flash online.

                    All these things that are free in Flash are for sale, or Apple iAd supported
                    in the App Store / iTunes. The App Store is a MULTI-MILLION (if not
                    BILLION) dollar business.

                    Now, all these things still hold true on a Mac with a crashing Flash. If
                    Hulu crashes my MacBook - I might break down and buy that episode on iTunes.
                    If Pandora is stuttering, I might buy some mp3s from iTunes instead.

                    They have a *LOT* to gain. Millions and millions of dollars.

                    - Chad W Smith

                    On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Frank Mitchell <fmitchel@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Hello Chad
                    >
                    >
                    > >IMHO - it's Apple's fault.
                    > >
                    > >snip
                    >
                    > >
                    > >It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging Flash.
                    >
                    > So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that?
                    >
                    > Saw on TV today that one of our illustrious senators is suggesting that
                    > the oil spill might have been deliberately caused by Obama.
                    >
                    > -- Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Rick Albright
                    Oh, come on! This is conspiracy theory nonsense. (Let s put Steve Jobs on the grassy knoll!) And BTW, what does it have to do with WordPerfect? The last time I
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 25, 2010
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                      Oh, come on! This is conspiracy theory nonsense. (Let's put Steve Jobs on the grassy knoll!) And BTW, what does it have to do with WordPerfect? The last time I checked, that was the subject of this list.

                      Rick Albright

                      On Jun 25, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Chad Smith wrote:

                      > Well, a lot, actually.
                      >
                      > On the iP_____'s specifically, by keeping Flash off the devices, they have
                      > killed a *TON* of competition.
                      >
                      > Who would buy episodes of "The Office" from the iTunes store, if they could
                      > fire up Hulu and watch them for free?
                      >
                      > Who would pay 99¢ for a game (1/2 or 1/3 of which goes to Apple, not the
                      > developers) when the *exact same game* is free online in Flash?
                      >
                      > Who would get an iAd supported game (all the money goes to Apple) if the
                      > exact same game is free online Flash?
                      >
                      > Or a very similar game is online for free in Flash.... One of the biggest
                      > games for the iP___s has been Fieldrunners - Desktop Tower Defense has been
                      > free online for years - but it is in Flash.
                      >
                      > How much money do you think Apple will make from the Farmville app?
                      > Farmville is free and full-featured in Flash online.
                      >
                      > All these things that are free in Flash are for sale, or Apple iAd supported
                      > in the App Store / iTunes. The App Store is a MULTI-MILLION (if not
                      > BILLION) dollar business.
                      >
                      > Now, all these things still hold true on a Mac with a crashing Flash. If
                      > Hulu crashes my MacBook - I might break down and buy that episode on iTunes.
                      > If Pandora is stuttering, I might buy some mp3s from iTunes instead.
                      >
                      > They have a *LOT* to gain. Millions and millions of dollars.
                      >
                      > - Chad W Smith
                      >
                      > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Frank Mitchell <fmitchel@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Hello Chad
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>> IMHO - it's Apple's fault.
                      >>>
                      >>> snip
                      >>
                      >>>
                      >>> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging Flash.
                      >>
                      >> So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that?
                      >>
                      >> Saw on TV today that one of our illustrious senators is suggesting that
                      >> the oil spill might have been deliberately caused by Obama.
                      >>
                      >> -- Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      =========================================================
                      “No dark sarcasm in the classroom”
                      --Roger Waters, “Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2”
                      from Pink Floyd, The Wall
                      -------------------------------------------
                      Rick Albright
                      logres@...
                    • Chad Smith
                      WPMAC - WordPerfect *MAC* Antitrust laws exist because of hundreds of proven conspiracies. - Chad W Smith I like a man who s middle name is W. - President
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 25, 2010
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                        WPMAC - WordPerfect *MAC*

                        Antitrust laws exist because of hundreds of proven conspiracies.

                        - Chad W Smith
                        "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February
                        10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya


                        On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Rick Albright <logres@...> wrote:

                        > Oh, come on! This is conspiracy theory nonsense. (Let's put Steve Jobs on
                        > the grassy knoll!) And BTW, what does it have to do with WordPerfect? The
                        > last time I checked, that was the subject of this list.
                        >
                        > Rick Albright
                        >
                        > On Jun 25, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Chad Smith wrote:
                        >
                        > > Well, a lot, actually.
                        > >
                        > > On the iP_____'s specifically, by keeping Flash off the devices, they
                        > have
                        > > killed a *TON* of competition.
                        > >
                        > > Who would buy episodes of "The Office" from the iTunes store, if they
                        > could
                        > > fire up Hulu and watch them for free?
                        > >
                        > > Who would pay 99� for a game (1/2 or 1/3 of which goes to Apple, not the
                        > > developers) when the *exact same game* is free online in Flash?
                        > >
                        > > Who would get an iAd supported game (all the money goes to Apple) if the
                        > > exact same game is free online Flash?
                        > >
                        > > Or a very similar game is online for free in Flash.... One of the biggest
                        > > games for the iP___s has been Fieldrunners - Desktop Tower Defense has
                        > been
                        > > free online for years - but it is in Flash.
                        > >
                        > > How much money do you think Apple will make from the Farmville app?
                        > > Farmville is free and full-featured in Flash online.
                        > >
                        > > All these things that are free in Flash are for sale, or Apple iAd
                        > supported
                        > > in the App Store / iTunes. The App Store is a MULTI-MILLION (if not
                        > > BILLION) dollar business.
                        > >
                        > > Now, all these things still hold true on a Mac with a crashing Flash. If
                        > > Hulu crashes my MacBook - I might break down and buy that episode on
                        > iTunes.
                        > > If Pandora is stuttering, I might buy some mp3s from iTunes instead.
                        > >
                        > > They have a *LOT* to gain. Millions and millions of dollars.
                        > >
                        > > - Chad W Smith
                        > >
                        > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Frank Mitchell <fmitchel@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Hello Chad
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>> IMHO - it's Apple's fault.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> snip
                        > >>
                        > >>>
                        > >>> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging
                        > Flash.
                        > >>
                        > >> So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that?
                        > >>
                        > >> Saw on TV today that one of our illustrious senators is suggesting that
                        > >> the oil spill might have been deliberately caused by Obama.
                        > >>
                        > >> -- Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > =========================================================
                        > �No dark sarcasm in the classroom�
                        > --Roger Waters, �Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2�
                        > from Pink Floyd, The Wall
                        > -------------------------------------------
                        > Rick Albright
                        > logres@...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chad Smith
                        A company with a virtual monopoly on a given market share purposefully breaking other people s websites/apps with their own software to gain a tighter hold on
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 25, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          A company with a virtual monopoly on a given market share purposefully
                          breaking other people's websites/apps with their own software to gain a
                          tighter hold on control of their users...?

                          Yeah - that could never happen.

                          - Chad W Smith
                          "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February
                          10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya


                          On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Chad Smith <chad78@...> wrote:

                          > WPMAC - WordPerfect *MAC*
                          >
                          > Antitrust laws exist because of hundreds of proven conspiracies.
                          >
                          > - Chad W Smith
                          > "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush -
                          > February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya
                          >
                          >
                          > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Rick Albright <logres@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Oh, come on! This is conspiracy theory nonsense. (Let's put Steve Jobs on
                          >> the grassy knoll!) And BTW, what does it have to do with WordPerfect? The
                          >> last time I checked, that was the subject of this list.
                          >>
                          >> Rick Albright
                          >>
                          >> On Jun 25, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Chad Smith wrote:
                          >>
                          >> > Well, a lot, actually.
                          >> >
                          >> > On the iP_____'s specifically, by keeping Flash off the devices, they
                          >> have
                          >> > killed a *TON* of competition.
                          >> >
                          >> > Who would buy episodes of "The Office" from the iTunes store, if they
                          >> could
                          >> > fire up Hulu and watch them for free?
                          >> >
                          >> > Who would pay 99� for a game (1/2 or 1/3 of which goes to Apple, not the
                          >> > developers) when the *exact same game* is free online in Flash?
                          >> >
                          >> > Who would get an iAd supported game (all the money goes to Apple) if the
                          >> > exact same game is free online Flash?
                          >> >
                          >> > Or a very similar game is online for free in Flash.... One of the
                          >> biggest
                          >> > games for the iP___s has been Fieldrunners - Desktop Tower Defense has
                          >> been
                          >> > free online for years - but it is in Flash.
                          >> >
                          >> > How much money do you think Apple will make from the Farmville app?
                          >> > Farmville is free and full-featured in Flash online.
                          >> >
                          >> > All these things that are free in Flash are for sale, or Apple iAd
                          >> supported
                          >> > in the App Store / iTunes. The App Store is a MULTI-MILLION (if not
                          >> > BILLION) dollar business.
                          >> >
                          >> > Now, all these things still hold true on a Mac with a crashing Flash.
                          >> If
                          >> > Hulu crashes my MacBook - I might break down and buy that episode on
                          >> iTunes.
                          >> > If Pandora is stuttering, I might buy some mp3s from iTunes instead.
                          >> >
                          >> > They have a *LOT* to gain. Millions and millions of dollars.
                          >> >
                          >> > - Chad W Smith
                          >> >
                          >> > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Frank Mitchell <fmitchel@...>
                          >> wrote:
                          >> >
                          >> >>
                          >> >>
                          >> >> Hello Chad
                          >> >>
                          >> >>
                          >> >>> IMHO - it's Apple's fault.
                          >> >>>
                          >> >>> snip
                          >> >>
                          >> >>>
                          >> >>> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging
                          >> Flash.
                          >> >>
                          >> >> So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that?
                          >> >>
                          >> >> Saw on TV today that one of our illustrious senators is suggesting that
                          >> >> the oil spill might have been deliberately caused by Obama.
                          >> >>
                          >> >> -- Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
                          >> >>
                          >> >>
                          >> >>
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> > ------------------------------------
                          >> >
                          >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >> =========================================================
                          >> �No dark sarcasm in the classroom�
                          >> --Roger Waters, �Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2�
                          >> from Pink Floyd, The Wall
                          >> -------------------------------------------
                          >> Rick Albright
                          >> logres@...
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------------------
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ordhaj
                          I have to agree. Flash may be buggy (and so may anything else), but no process should be able to bring down an operating system. If it can, there s a problem
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 26, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I have to agree. Flash may be buggy (and so may anything else), but no process should be able to bring down an operating system. If it can, there's a problem with the OS design. I use Windows at work and PaintShopPro consistently brings down the graphics driver. It shouldn't be fiddling with it, of course, but the OS shouldn't allow it to.

                            And, as for the person who talked of dancing monitors, that's not a problem with Flash, but with how its used. To ban flash because of banner ads, etc., would be like banning GIFs or HTML for the same reason.





                            ________________________________
                            From: Chad Smith <chad78@...>
                            To: wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 2:02:50 AM
                            Subject: Re: [wpmac] Re:[OT] Long an Upstart, Apple Plays New Role: Goliath (NY Times)


                            Flash doesn't crash other OSes - just Mac.

                            To me, I have to ask - is that a bug with Flash, or with Mac. IMHO - it's
                            Apple's fault.

                            I actually didn't have a problem with Flash until the recent slew of updates
                            that came out from Apple (IE - *after* the war of words between Jobs and
                            Adobe).

                            It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging Flash.

                            Flash is an awesome tool. It can be overdone, of course. Just like
                            anything. But when used well, it provides user experiences that no other
                            tool can.

                            - Chad W Smith
                            "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February
                            10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

                            On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. <
                            pjones1@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > I find any crash I have with browsers are "all" caused by Flash.
                            >
                            > I went to two sites fellow was bragging because it was 100% Flash. And
                            > each I had the first system Crash I've had on a Mac in 10 years or more.
                            > It not only Crashed the browser it crashed the OS. Just to make sure it
                            > wasn't a Fluke, I went to both again and repeated the same behavior.
                            >
                            > I went back and reported the finding to the fellow and he got quiet in a
                            > hurry.
                            >
                            >
                            > David Patterson wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Not to defend any sort of monopolistic behavior, but I wish more
                            > > developers would reject Flash. It wastes bandwidth, system resources,
                            > > and my time watching junk when all I need is information.
                            > > A large part of my decision to use WP instead of Word is based on the
                            > > same feelings about dancing monitors and other garbage I don't need or
                            > > want to do my work.
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
                            > 616 Liberty Street Martinsville, Va 24112-1809
                            > Phone: 276-632-5045 Cell: 276-732-7781 Fax: 276-632-0868
                            > http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1@...<pjones1%40kimbanet.com>
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Frank Mitchell
                            Hello Chad, Fair enough. I wasn t aware of any of that - I m not into games anyway. Sounds very much like one of Microsoft s tactics. Thanks, Frank ... --
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 26, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hello Chad,

                              Fair enough. I wasn't aware of any of that - I'm not into games anyway.

                              Sounds very much like one of Microsoft's tactics.

                              Thanks,
                              Frank

                              >Well, a lot, actually.
                              >
                              >On the iP_____'s specifically, by keeping Flash off the devices, they have
                              >killed a *TON* of competition.
                              >
                              >Who would buy episodes of "The Office" from the iTunes store, if they could
                              >fire up Hulu and watch them for free?
                              >
                              >Who would pay 99¢ for a game (1/2 or 1/3 of which goes to Apple, not the
                              >developers) when the *exact same game* is free online in Flash?
                              >
                              >Who would get an iAd supported game (all the money goes to Apple) if the
                              >exact same game is free online Flash?
                              >
                              >Or a very similar game is online for free in Flash.... One of the biggest
                              >games for the iP___s has been Fieldrunners - Desktop Tower Defense has been
                              >free online for years - but it is in Flash.
                              >
                              >How much money do you think Apple will make from the Farmville app?
                              > Farmville is free and full-featured in Flash online.
                              >
                              >All these things that are free in Flash are for sale, or Apple iAd supported
                              >in the App Store / iTunes. The App Store is a MULTI-MILLION (if not
                              >BILLION) dollar business.
                              >
                              >Now, all these things still hold true on a Mac with a crashing Flash. If
                              >Hulu crashes my MacBook - I might break down and buy that episode on iTunes.
                              > If Pandora is stuttering, I might buy some mp3s from iTunes instead.
                              >
                              >They have a *LOT* to gain. Millions and millions of dollars.
                              >
                              >- Chad W Smith
                              >
                              >On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Frank Mitchell <fmitchel@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Hello Chad
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> >IMHO - it's Apple's fault.
                              >> >
                              >> >snip
                              >>
                              >> >
                              >> >It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging Flash.
                              >>
                              >> So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that?

                              -- Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
                            • Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
                              I too am not into games. Based on my experience on my computers both Macs (but both PPC Computers) I couldn t use them any way. When Flash works they act like
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 26, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I too am not into games. Based on my experience on my computers both
                                Macs (but both PPC Computers) I couldn't use them any way. When Flash
                                works they act like older Satellite antennas that were affect by rain or
                                snow. Freezes, stuttering sound, constant loading of content. When they
                                don't work I have crashes of applications using. and I have had flash
                                content to bring down system as well.

                                Like I said. Adobe got their start as a result of creating applications
                                for Mac. (Pdf came out a year before it came out on PC's ATM for Font
                                control on the old 680xx Motorola Processor.


                                Frank Mitchell wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Hello Chad,
                                >
                                > Fair enough. I wasn't aware of any of that - I'm not into games anyway.
                                >
                                > Sounds very much like one of Microsoft's tactics.
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                > Frank
                                >
                                > >Well, a lot, actually.
                                > >
                                > >On the iP_____'s specifically, by keeping Flash off the devices, they have
                                > >killed a *TON* of competition.
                                > >
                                > >Who would buy episodes of "The Office" from the iTunes store, if they
                                > could
                                > >fire up Hulu and watch them for free?
                                > >
                                > >Who would pay 99¢ for a game (1/2 or 1/3 of which goes to Apple, not the
                                > >developers) when the *exact same game* is free online in Flash?
                                > >
                                > >Who would get an iAd supported game (all the money goes to Apple) if the
                                > >exact same game is free online Flash?
                                > >
                                > >Or a very similar game is online for free in Flash.... One of the biggest
                                > >games for the iP___s has been Fieldrunners - Desktop Tower Defense has
                                > been
                                > >free online for years - but it is in Flash.
                                > >
                                > >How much money do you think Apple will make from the Farmville app?
                                > > Farmville is free and full-featured in Flash online.
                                > >
                                > >All these things that are free in Flash are for sale, or Apple iAd
                                > supported
                                > >in the App Store / iTunes. The App Store is a MULTI-MILLION (if not
                                > >BILLION) dollar business.
                                > >
                                > >Now, all these things still hold true on a Mac with a crashing Flash. If
                                > >Hulu crashes my MacBook - I might break down and buy that episode on
                                > iTunes.
                                > > If Pandora is stuttering, I might buy some mp3s from iTunes instead.
                                > >
                                > >They have a *LOT* to gain. Millions and millions of dollars.
                                > >
                                > >- Chad W Smith
                                > >
                                > >On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Frank Mitchell <fmitchel@...
                                > <mailto:fmitchel%40amug.org>> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> Hello Chad
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> >IMHO - it's Apple's fault.
                                > >> >
                                > >> >snip
                                > >>
                                > >> >
                                > >> >It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully sabotaging
                                > Flash.
                                > >>
                                > >> So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that?
                                >
                                > -- Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
                                >
                                >

                                --
                                Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
                                616 Liberty Street Martinsville, Va 24112-1809
                                Phone: 276-632-5045 Cell: 276-732-7781 Fax: 276-632-0868
                                http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1@...
                              • David Schmalz
                                Since this off-topic topic is so popular, I ll mention that I alleviated my Flash problems on my PPC Mac by installing a program called Clicktoflash. It was a
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 26, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Since this off-topic topic is so popular, I'll mention that I
                                  alleviated my Flash problems on my PPC Mac by installing a program
                                  called Clicktoflash. It was a free download, as I recall. Whenever
                                  Flash content appears on a page, it just has a button instead of the
                                  content. If you want to see it, you click the button. It sure makes
                                  web pages filled with ads load faster, and it cuts way down on
                                  crashes. For sites like YouTube, it also presents the option of
                                  viewing the videos in H.264 instead of Flash.

                                  David

                                  On Jun 26, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. wrote:

                                  > I too am not into games. Based on my experience on my computers both
                                  > Macs (but both PPC Computers) I couldn't use them any way. When Flash
                                  > works they act like older Satellite antennas that were affect by
                                  > rain or
                                  > snow. Freezes, stuttering sound, constant loading of content. When
                                  > they
                                  > don't work I have crashes of applications using. and I have had flash
                                  > content to bring down system as well.
                                  >
                                  > Like I said. Adobe got their start as a result of creating
                                  > applications
                                  > for Mac. (Pdf came out a year before it came out on PC's ATM for Font
                                  > control on the old 680xx Motorola Processor.
                                  >
                                  > Frank Mitchell wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Hello Chad,
                                  > >
                                  > > Fair enough. I wasn't aware of any of that - I'm not into games
                                  > anyway.
                                  > >
                                  > > Sounds very much like one of Microsoft's tactics.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks,
                                  > > Frank
                                  > >
                                  > > >Well, a lot, actually.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >On the iP_____'s specifically, by keeping Flash off the devices,
                                  > they have
                                  > > >killed a *TON* of competition.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Who would buy episodes of "The Office" from the iTunes store, if
                                  > they
                                  > > could
                                  > > >fire up Hulu and watch them for free?
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Who would pay 99� for a game (1/2 or 1/3 of which goes to Apple,
                                  > not the
                                  > > >developers) when the *exact same game* is free online in Flash?
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Who would get an iAd supported game (all the money goes to
                                  > Apple) if the
                                  > > >exact same game is free online Flash?
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Or a very similar game is online for free in Flash.... One of
                                  > the biggest
                                  > > >games for the iP___s has been Fieldrunners - Desktop Tower
                                  > Defense has
                                  > > been
                                  > > >free online for years - but it is in Flash.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >How much money do you think Apple will make from the Farmville app?
                                  > > > Farmville is free and full-featured in Flash online.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >All these things that are free in Flash are for sale, or Apple iAd
                                  > > supported
                                  > > >in the App Store / iTunes. The App Store is a MULTI-MILLION (if not
                                  > > >BILLION) dollar business.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Now, all these things still hold true on a Mac with a crashing
                                  > Flash. If
                                  > > >Hulu crashes my MacBook - I might break down and buy that
                                  > episode on
                                  > > iTunes.
                                  > > > If Pandora is stuttering, I might buy some mp3s from iTunes
                                  > instead.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >They have a *LOT* to gain. Millions and millions of dollars.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >- Chad W Smith
                                  > > >
                                  > > >On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Frank Mitchell <fmitchel@...
                                  > > <mailto:fmitchel%40amug.org>> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> Hello Chad
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> >IMHO - it's Apple's fault.
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> >snip
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> >It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple is purposefully
                                  > sabotaging
                                  > > Flash.
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> So what do you think Apple might expect to gain from that?
                                  > >
                                  > > -- Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
                                  > 616 Liberty Street Martinsville, Va 24112-1809
                                  > Phone: 276-632-5045 Cell: 276-732-7781 Fax: 276-632-0868
                                  > http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1@...
                                  >
                                  >



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