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[wpmac] Re: A1 paper size?

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  • Edward Mendelson
    ... All versions of WordPerfect (including the current Windows versions) have a page size limit of 27.3 inches. As Roy Lewis explained in a recent post on a
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 3, 2009
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      --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, John Kaufmann <kaufmann@...> wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 2009.07.03 17:42 -0500, Edward Mendelson wrote:
      >
      > > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "iainmeek" <wordperfectmac@> wrote:
      >
      > >> Does anyone know if it's possible to print out to A1 size from Sheepshaver?
      > >>
      > > Are you asking whether you can print an A1-size page from WordPerfect for the Mac, running under Sheepshaver? If so, the answer is No...
      >
      > Interesting. If the printing device can handle A1, where is the limitation?
      > WP/Mac (I believe other WP versions have no such limit) or Sheepshaver? -
      > and why?

      All versions of WordPerfect (including the current Windows
      versions) have a page size limit of 27.3 inches. As Roy
      Lewis explained in a recent post on a Corel newsgroup
      his words):

      "WP has a limit of 27.306in ... AFAICS WP has a limit of
      (2^16)/2-1 (32767). This is the maximum figure that can be
      represented by a signed binary 16-bit integer. (Adding 1
      to this figure, binary 0111_1111_1111_1111, makes it a
      negative value: 1000_0000_0000_0000 - the leading 1 is
      a 'sign bit'.) Using WP Units, 1200 to the inch, this
      equates to 27.306in."

      Of course, it could be worse. Microsoft Word has a page
      size limit of 22 inches.
    • Kevin McCoy
      ... Actually, Mac WP uses the Quickdraw coordinate system (72 dpi), not the WP Windows system (1200 dpi). It is therefore, theoretically, possible to print to
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 3, 2009
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        On Jul 3, 2009, at 10:47 PM, Edward Mendelson wrote:

        > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, John Kaufmann <kaufmann@...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> In a message dated 2009.07.03 17:42 -0500, Edward Mendelson wrote:
        >>
        >>> --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "iainmeek"
        >>> <wordperfectmac@> wrote:
        >>
        >>>> Does anyone know if it's possible to print out to A1 size from
        >>>> Sheepshaver?
        >>>>
        >>> Are you asking whether you can print an A1-size page from
        >>> WordPerfect for the Mac, running under Sheepshaver? If so, the
        >>> answer is No...
        >>
        >> Interesting. If the printing device can handle A1, where is the
        >> limitation?
        >> WP/Mac (I believe other WP versions have no such limit) or
        >> Sheepshaver? -
        >> and why?
        >
        > All versions of WordPerfect (including the current Windows
        > versions) have a page size limit of 27.3 inches. As Roy
        > Lewis explained in a recent post on a Corel newsgroup
        > his words):
        >
        > "WP has a limit of 27.306in ... AFAICS WP has a limit of
        > (2^16)/2-1 (32767). This is the maximum figure that can be
        > represented by a signed binary 16-bit integer. (Adding 1
        > to this figure, binary 0111_1111_1111_1111, makes it a
        > negative value: 1000_0000_0000_0000 - the leading 1 is
        > a 'sign bit'.) Using WP Units, 1200 to the inch, this
        > equates to 27.306in."
        >
        > Of course, it could be worse. Microsoft Word has a page
        > size limit of 22 inches.

        Actually, Mac WP uses the Quickdraw coordinate system (72 dpi), not
        the WP Windows system (1200 dpi). It is therefore, theoretically,
        possible to print to a paper nearly 38 feet across (32767 / 72 = 455
        inches or 37' 11"). The only limitation should be your printer and
        it's driver.

        The Mac WP file format indicates that most coordinates are
        represented by a signed 32 bit fixed point number, which is accurate
        to four decimal places (±32767.0000 72nds of an inch).

        Just for interests sake; Word uses the TWIPS (twentieths of a point,
        or 1440 / inch) system, which is why it is limited to 22 inches
        (32767 / 1440 = 22.75).
      • Edward Mendelson
        ... You re right, and I was completely wrong. Fascinating! Thanks for that - I d never guessed that the Mac version used a different system of measurements.
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 4, 2009
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          --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Kevin McCoy <kevin@...> wrote:
          > Actually, Mac WP uses the Quickdraw coordinate system (72 dpi), not
          > the WP Windows system (1200 dpi). It is therefore, theoretically,
          > possible to print to a paper nearly 38 feet across (32767 / 72 = 455
          > inches or 37' 11"). The only limitation should be your printer and
          > it's driver.
          >
          > The Mac WP file format indicates that most coordinates are
          > represented by a signed 32 bit fixed point number, which is accurate
          > to four decimal places (±32767.0000 72nds of an inch).

          You're right, and I was completely wrong. Fascinating! Thanks for that - I'd never guessed that the Mac version used a different system of measurements.

          Furthermore, what you describe as theoretically possible is also practically possible. I found an OS 9 DesignJet driver and installed it in OS 9.04 running under SheepShaver. I used the Adobe PS driver to create a virtual printer that used the DesignJet printer description file and saved the output to a PS file on the desktop. WordPerfect crashed a few times when I tried to select this printer driver and choose an "ISO A1" paper size, but it finally settled down, and created a .PS output file in A1 format. I copied that file to the OS X desktop, opened it in Preview, and saved it as an A1-sized PDF file.

          Again - thanks for this information. I'll try to add the large-format printer description file to my BasiliskII-WPMac setup.
        • John Kaufmann
          ... Nor would I; it would be interesting to see a discussion of why the apparent relative coarseness of MacOS/Quickdraw (72dpi vs 1200 dpi) works so well. Are
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 4, 2009
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            In a message dated 2009.07.04 09:45 -0500, Edward Mendelson wrote:
            > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Kevin McCoy <kevin@...> wrote:

            >> Actually, Mac WP uses the Quickdraw coordinate system (72 dpi), not
            >> the WP Windows system (1200 dpi). It is therefore, theoretically,
            >> possible to print to a paper nearly 38 feet across (32767 / 72 = 455
            >> inches or 37' 11"). The only limitation should be your printer and
            >> it's driver.
            >>
            >> The Mac WP file format indicates that most coordinates are
            >> represented by a signed 32 bit fixed point number, which is accurate
            >> to four decimal places (±32767.0000 72nds of an inch).
            >
            > You're right ... I'd never guessed that the Mac version used a different system of measurements.

            Nor would I; it would be interesting to see a discussion of why the apparent
            relative coarseness of MacOS/Quickdraw (72dpi vs 1200 dpi) works so well.
            Are Postscript and Truetype fonts part of the answer?

            > Again - thanks for this information.

            Thanks to both of you for that information on OS/application coordinate
            systems and their limitations.

            John K.
          • Kevin McCoy
            ... It is because Mac WP uses a 32 bit fixed point number instead of a 16 bit integer number. Effectively giving it a resolution of about 720,000 dpi.
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 5, 2009
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              On Jul 4, 2009, at 9:43 PM, John Kaufmann wrote:

              > it would be interesting to see a discussion of why the apparent
              > relative coarseness of MacOS/Quickdraw (72dpi vs 1200 dpi) works so
              > well.
              > Are Postscript and Truetype fonts part of the answer?

              It is because Mac WP uses a 32 bit fixed point number instead of a 16
              bit integer number. Effectively giving it a resolution of about
              720,000 dpi.
              <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_arithmetic>



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kevin McCoy
              ... And Postscript does help. Since it uses a floating point coordinate space, which is easily converted to from the fixed point space.
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 5, 2009
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                On Jul 5, 2009, at 6:06 AM, Kevin McCoy wrote:

                > On Jul 4, 2009, at 9:43 PM, John Kaufmann wrote:
                >
                >> it would be interesting to see a discussion of why the apparent
                >> relative coarseness of MacOS/Quickdraw (72dpi vs 1200 dpi) works so
                >> well.
                >> Are Postscript and Truetype fonts part of the answer?
                >
                > It is because Mac WP uses a 32 bit fixed point number instead of a 16
                > bit integer number. Effectively giving it a resolution of about
                > 720,000 dpi.
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_arithmetic>

                And Postscript does help. Since it uses a floating point coordinate
                space, which is easily converted to from the fixed point space.
              • Edward Mendelson
                ... I ve now updated my BasiliskII-WPMac setup to include a Plotter-sized virtual printer driver that can create PDF files in A1 or any other conceivable
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 5, 2009
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                  --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Mendelson" <em315@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Furthermore, what you describe as theoretically possible is also practically possible. I found an OS 9 DesignJet driver and installed it in OS 9.04 running under SheepShaver. I used the Adobe PS driver to create a virtual printer that used the DesignJet printer description file and saved the output to a PS file on the desktop. WordPerfect crashed a few times when I tried to select this printer driver and choose an "ISO A1" paper size, but it finally settled down, and created a .PS output file in A1 format. I copied that file to the OS X desktop, opened it in Preview, and saved it as an A1-sized PDF file.
                  >

                  I've now updated my BasiliskII-WPMac setup to include a "Plotter-sized" virtual printer driver that can create PDF files in A1 or any other conceivable page size. Details here:

                  http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/mac-intel.html

                  (John: I've also made minor improvements in the installer script.)
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