Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Beginners' guide needed?

Expand Messages
  • Edward Mendelson
    Over the weekend, I tried the experiment of visiting this group as a complete newcomer, and trying to navigate its rich resources. It turned out to be almost
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 6, 2008
      Over the weekend, I tried the experiment of
      visiting this group as a complete newcomer,
      and trying to navigate its rich resources.
      It turned out to be almost impossible to
      find what a beginner would need. There are
      lots of messages with imprecise references
      to links and files (often without exact names
      or directions for finding them), but there
      are so many different Sheepshavers (for
      example) that no one who hasn't been here
      for months would have much of an idea of what
      to do first.

      Would someone who knows his or her around the
      group be willing to volunteer to create a
      Beginners' Guide that John might post on the
      home page? It might look something like this:

      =============================================

      You are here because you have or want
      WordPerfect for the Macintosh.

      1. If you don't have WPMac, and are running
      Classic, then download and install such-and-such
      a file (exact link supplied here - not just a
      vague reference).

      2. If you already have WPMac running under
      Classic, and you need to be open and save files
      created by WP for Windows, then download the
      conversion droplets (link here) and use them
      by dragging the WPWin file on to such-and-such
      a droplet.

      3. If you have an Intel Mac or are running OS X
      10.5 on any Mac, then go here (exact link
      supplied) and download the all-in-one
      Sheepshaver-and-WPMac installer.

      4. If, after installing the Sheepshaver-and-WPMac
      setup, you then need to open and save files
      created by WP for Windows, then download the
      conversion droplets (exact link here) and add
      them to your Sheepshaver setup by doing this,
      that, and other thing.

      ===============================================

      Something like this would relieve the obvious
      frustrations of many visitors who come here looking
      for basic information and unable to find it.
    • Joe Edgell
      i think I hear you volunteering! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 6, 2008
        i think I hear you volunteering!


        On 6 Jul 2008, at 10:23, Edward Mendelson wrote:

        > Would someone who knows his or her around the
        > group be willing to volunteer to create a
        > Beginners' Guide that John might post on the
        > home page? It might look something like this:



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Marion Taylor
        I ll second the need for this. Although I ve been using personal computers since the late 1970s, I came to this group recently having just swtiched from
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 6, 2008
          I'll second the need for this.
          Although I've been using personal computers since the late 1970s, I
          came to this group recently having just swtiched from Windows to Mac.
          And I know the info is all here, but it is, indeed, difficult to find
          the answers. Fortunately, my initial post was not met with "the
          answers are here, find them on your own" - but with detailed responses.

          On Jul 6, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Edward Mendelson wrote:

          > Over the weekend, I tried the experiment of
          > visiting this group as a complete newcomer,
          > and trying to navigate its rich resources.
          > It turned out to be almost impossible to
          > find what a beginner would need.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael
          ... Thanks for posting this. I found by asking questions people actually got irritated at me? Some responses said I d find something in Files.... something
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 6, 2008
            --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Mendelson" <emendelson@...> wrote:
            >
            > Over the weekend, I tried the experiment of
            > visiting this group as a complete newcomer,
            > and trying to navigate its rich resources.
            > It turned out to be almost impossible to
            > find what a beginner would need.>

            Thanks for posting this.

            I found by asking questions people actually got irritated at me?

            Some responses said I'd find something in Files.... something that
            I would need or something I didn't understand... then someone
            else said it was in the Links section.

            I ended up downloading something and my computer is now in
            the shop... corrupted my hard drive (something from Australia?).
            Maybe it's coincidence.. but it's a brand new Intel Mac... so I'd
            be careful what you download from people you don't know.

            Anyway... I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling stupid after the
            inferences that "I should know better" and "you've already been
            told this". I, personally, gave up... but still am reading the posts
            on a Pismo laptop as my iMac is getting fixed.

            Mike
          • John Rethorst
            Thank you for this very helpful input. Something like this was my intention with the Getting Started with WP Mac PDF document in the Files section,
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 6, 2008
              Thank you for this very helpful input. Something like this was my
              intention with the "Getting Started with WP Mac" PDF document in
              the Files section, referenced in the Group Description on the front
              page. The Getting Started doc does not have exact links and perhaps
              it should. It could also be more detailed.

              I wanted to keep it at one page so as not to discourage the
              less-technical user who _may_ want to explore WP Mac and would
              like to see that one page of instructions is all s/he needs. Specifying
              locations, e.g. "the SheepShaver folder in the Files section here",
              rather than exact links, should work, except that at the moment
              there are two SheepShaver downloads: the package, and a later
              version of the application only.

              I'm going to post an updated package including the more recent
              app version as soon as I have time. Outside of that:

              * should the Getting Started doc be longer? More detailed?

              * should the links and files structures be changed?

              * should the Group Description on the front page be revised?

              All input from everyone is valuable. WP runs better than ever,
              and is still IMO the best word processing program ever written.
              It's my intention to provide as high quality support for it as
              possible.

              Thank you,
              John R.

              --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Mendelson" <emendelson@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Over the weekend, I tried the experiment of
              > visiting this group as a complete newcomer,
              > and trying to navigate its rich resources.
              > It turned out to be almost impossible to
              > find what a beginner would need. There are
              > lots of messages with imprecise references
              > to links and files (often without exact names
              > or directions for finding them), but there
              > are so many different Sheepshavers (for
              > example) that no one who hasn't been here
              > for months would have much of an idea of what
              > to do first.
              >
              > Would someone who knows his or her around the
              > group be willing to volunteer to create a
              > Beginners' Guide that John might post on the
              > home page? It might look something like this:
              >
              > =============================================
              >
              > You are here because you have or want
              > WordPerfect for the Macintosh.
              >
              > 1. If you don't have WPMac, and are running
              > Classic, then download and install such-and-such
              > a file (exact link supplied here - not just a
              > vague reference).
              >
              > 2. If you already have WPMac running under
              > Classic, and you need to be open and save files
              > created by WP for Windows, then download the
              > conversion droplets (link here) and use them
              > by dragging the WPWin file on to such-and-such
              > a droplet.
              >
              > 3. If you have an Intel Mac or are running OS X
              > 10.5 on any Mac, then go here (exact link
              > supplied) and download the all-in-one
              > Sheepshaver-and-WPMac installer.
              >
              > 4. If, after installing the Sheepshaver-and-WPMac
              > setup, you then need to open and save files
              > created by WP for Windows, then download the
              > conversion droplets (exact link here) and add
              > them to your Sheepshaver setup by doing this,
              > that, and other thing.
              >
              > ===============================================
              >
              > Something like this would relieve the obvious
              > frustrations of many visitors who come here looking
              > for basic information and unable to find it.
              >
            • Edward Mendelson
              Hello, John, It s only one person s opinion, but I think the home page should have permanent links to downloads for WPMac (for classic) and Sheepshaver+WP (for
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 6, 2008
                Hello, John,

                It's only one person's opinion, but I think the home page
                should have permanent links to downloads for WPMac (for
                classic) and Sheepshaver+WP (for Intel/10.5), and also
                for the conversion droplets (which need to be explained
                fully). The permanent links should always lead to the
                current version of the files; I'm not certain how to do
                this on Yahoo Groups, but it should be possible.

                It's obvious from recent messages that the Conversion
                Droplets need to be included or pointed to, with a very
                clear explanation that you should ONLY drop a WPWin file
                on the droplet with WP6+ in its name. (Drop it on any
                other droplet, and it won't open in WPMac.)

                As for the Getting Started guide, I've got no special
                opinion, beyond the absolute need for permanent links.
                I've learned from own WPDOS site that visitors will make
                any mistake that can possibly be made.

                While we're on the subject, I noticed a while back that
                the Sheepsaver-WP installer generates error messages if
                it's run on a system on which it (or an earlier version)
                has been run earlier. It tells me "File already exists"
                (or something like that) but doesn't tell me which file
                it's talking about. I now know how to eliminate or rename
                all existing files before running the installer, but I
                don't think beginners will know how to do this. Could
                the installation script be modified to avoid this
                problem? I know I'm asking a lot - I spent weeks refining
                a comparable Windows script once, and I don't ever want
                to face a job like that again.

                It's usually a thankless job preparing all this material,
                so, again, THANK YOU.


                --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "John Rethorst" <jrethorst@...>
                wrote:

                > * should the Getting Started doc be longer? More detailed?
                >
                > * should the links and files structures be changed?
                >
                > * should the Group Description on the front page be revised?
              • ted_m_p_lee
                ... Minor correction to suggest: Sheepshaver+WP should also include the PPC version for those still on PPC s who move up to Leopard. Ted Lee Minnetonka, MN
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 7, 2008
                  --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Mendelson"
                  <emendelson@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello, John,
                  >
                  > It's only one person's opinion, but I think the home page
                  > should have permanent links to downloads for WPMac (for
                  > classic) and Sheepshaver+WP (for Intel/10.5), and also
                  > for the conversion droplets (which need to be explained
                  > fully). The permanent links should always lead to the
                  > current version of the files; I'm not certain how to do
                  > this on Yahoo Groups, but it should be possible.
                  >
                  >

                  Minor correction to suggest: Sheepshaver+WP should also include the
                  PPC version for those still on PPC's who move up to Leopard.

                  Ted Lee
                  Minnetonka, MN
                • John Rethorst
                  ... I hope this particular confusion will be as temporary as possible. There s currently a much better build of SS for Intel than for PPC, although the updated
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 7, 2008
                    --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Mendelson" <emendelson@...> wrote:

                    > there
                    > are so many different Sheepshavers (for
                    > example) that no one who hasn't been here
                    > for months would have much of an idea of what
                    > to do first.

                    I hope this particular confusion will be as temporary as possible.
                    There's currently a much better build of SS for Intel than for PPC,
                    although the updated source code could be built for PPC as well.
                    I've never done that, but am thinking of giving it a try. Meanwhile
                    that leaves us with multiple SheepShavers. I'm also thinking of
                    deleting Basilisk links and files; this 68k emulator, while the
                    basis for SheepShaver, is not as interesting to WP users.

                    John R.
                  • Smokey Ardisson
                    Sorry for the time-lag in these messages; I ve been offline travelling since the beginning of July.... On Sun Jul 6, 2008 12:06 pm ((PDT)), John Rethorst
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 19, 2008
                      Sorry for the time-lag in these messages; I've been offline
                      travelling since the beginning of July....

                      On Sun Jul 6, 2008 12:06 pm ((PDT)), "John Rethorst"
                      <jrethorst@...> wrote:

                      [...]

                      Some of the issues Edward raised in his message have bothered me a
                      little bit off and on as I've read replies to new users on this list
                      (I'm on digest, so I'm rarely the first response), but never enough
                      that I took the time to enumerate them and suggest some alternatives,
                      so thanks to Edward for doing that.

                      I'll try to find some time next month to look through the Getting
                      Started guide and come up with additional concrete suggestions for
                      improvement (unless this improvement process happens to be complete
                      before I get the time).

                      >* should the links and files structures be changed?

                      Possibly; I'll look at that, too.

                      >* should the Group Description on the front page be revised?

                      Yes. At the very least we should try to get the Getting Started
                      guide hyperlinked in there (although access to the Files section
                      requires group membership, iirc). Again something I'll look at.

                      The direct links bit is (or at least was) complicated by Yahoo's
                      anti-hotlinking stuff, generating a temporary random URL for each
                      file when the page is loaded. In the past it was possible to
                      sometimes work around this by manually constructing the URL (i.e.,
                      path/URL to the file's folder plus the filename) rather than using
                      "Copy Link" or whatever from a web browser; I don't know if that
                      work-around still works, however.

                      >Specifying
                      >locations, e.g. "the SheepShaver folder in the Files section here",
                      >rather than exact links

                      For whatever reason (perhaps because most users access this list via
                      email?), "the Files section" is a confusing notion. Heavy Yahoo
                      Groups users seem to know it, but my sense is we have a lot of new or
                      potential users/members who find this group but aren't longtime Yahoo
                      Groups folks. Perhaps we should consider hyperlinking (in Groups
                      HTML or WP docs) or postpending a link (in messages to the list) any
                      use of "in the Files section here"?

                      Thanks again to John R for maintaining this group (and all the WP
                      utils) and especially for being so open to suggestions for
                      improvement.

                      Smokey
                    • John Rethorst
                      ... It s not complete. All suggestions welcome. ... Done. ... It does. ... The Welcome message sent to new subscribers points out that full benefits are
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 20, 2008
                        --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Smokey Ardisson <smokey.ardisson@...>
                        wrote:

                        > I'll try to find some time next month to look through the Getting
                        > Started guide and come up with additional concrete suggestions for
                        > improvement (unless this improvement process happens to be complete
                        > before I get the time).

                        It's not complete. All suggestions welcome.

                        > >* should the links and files structures be changed?
                        >
                        > Possibly; I'll look at that, too.
                        >
                        > >* should the Group Description on the front page be revised?
                        >
                        > Yes. At the very least we should try to get the Getting Started
                        > guide hyperlinked in there (although access to the Files section
                        > requires group membership, iirc). Again something I'll look at.

                        Done.

                        > The direct links bit is (or at least was) complicated by Yahoo's
                        > anti-hotlinking stuff, generating a temporary random URL for each
                        > file when the page is loaded. In the past it was possible to
                        > sometimes work around this by manually constructing the URL (i.e.,
                        > path/URL to the file's folder plus the filename) rather than using
                        > "Copy Link" or whatever from a web browser; I don't know if that
                        > work-around still works, however.

                        It does.

                        > For whatever reason (perhaps because most users access this list via
                        > email?), "the Files section" is a confusing notion. Heavy Yahoo
                        > Groups users seem to know it, but my sense is we have a lot of new or
                        > potential users/members who find this group but aren't longtime Yahoo
                        > Groups folks. Perhaps we should consider hyperlinking (in Groups
                        > HTML or WP docs) or postpending a link (in messages to the list) any
                        > use of "in the Files section here"?

                        The Welcome message sent to new subscribers points out that full
                        benefits are available only to group members, not email subscribers.
                        But I could add links to the Files and Links sections to the group
                        description -- and to the Getting Started document, although depending
                        on how the user reads that doc, the links may not be clickable.

                        John R.
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.