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SheepShaver questions

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  • Bob Stern
    In preparation for Leopard, I just installed John Rethorst s wonderful SheepShaver package on my PPC Mac in Tiger. (Thanks a million, John!) SheepShaver seems
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 27, 2007
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      In preparation for Leopard, I just installed John Rethorst's
      wonderful SheepShaver package on my PPC Mac in Tiger. (Thanks a
      million, John!)

      SheepShaver seems to work fine, but I would appreciate confirmation
      that two quirks are normal:

      1. Whenever I launch SheepShaver, OS X erroneously thinks it has
      crashed and displays a message saying that SheepShaver unexpectedly
      quit, even though you can see SS proceeding to boot up normally. I
      just click the Close button, and SS continues functioning normally.

      2. I set my OS X Desktop folder as the shared Unix folder. If I
      move a document in or out of that folder in OS X while SS is running,
      the change does not appear in the open Unix window in SS until I
      close and reopen it.
      --

      Bob Stern
    • John Rethorst
      ... You re most welcome. ... Both quirks are normal, the first only on PPC machines. SheepShaver is under active development and I expect the first to be fixed
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 28, 2007
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        --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Bob Stern <bob_stern@...> wrote:
        >
        > In preparation for Leopard, I just installed John Rethorst's
        > wonderful SheepShaver package on my PPC Mac in Tiger. (Thanks a
        > million, John!)

        You're most welcome.

        > SheepShaver seems to work fine, but I would appreciate confirmation
        > that two quirks are normal:
        >
        > 1. Whenever I launch SheepShaver, OS X erroneously thinks it has
        > crashed and displays a message saying that SheepShaver unexpectedly
        > quit, even though you can see SS proceeding to boot up normally. I
        > just click the Close button, and SS continues functioning normally.
        >
        > 2. I set my OS X Desktop folder as the shared Unix folder. If I
        > move a document in or out of that folder in OS X while SS is running,
        > the change does not appear in the open Unix window in SS until I
        > close and reopen it.

        Both quirks are normal, the first only on PPC machines. SheepShaver
        is under active development and I expect the first to be fixed soon.
        The second may be a matter of SS reading folder contents only when
        the folder is opened. That will probably be addressed at some point.

        John R.
      • Randall C. Wilson
        Are we certain that SheepShaver will be needed to run a classic application under Leopard? Tiger ended support for classic as well, but if you install Tiger
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 29, 2007
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          Are we certain that SheepShaver will be needed to run a classic
          application under Leopard? Tiger ended support for classic as well,
          but if you install Tiger onto a PPC machine that already has Classic
          and a working OS9 folder installed, Classic continues to run fine
          under Tiger.

          The one thing I found-after reformatting a Powerbook and installing
          Tiger-is that you cannot install OS9 on a machine if Tiger is already
          installed. (OS 9 must be installed before Tiger.)

          7:10 PM -0700 on 10/27/07, Bob Stern wrote:
          >In preparation for Leopard, I just installed John Rethorst's
          >wonderful SheepShaver package on my PPC Mac in Tiger. (Thanks a
          >million, John!)


          --
          /S/ Randall

          mailto:rwilson@...

          Alternate: mailto:gryndal@...
        • Rick
          ... I hate to disagree with this notion but I have to since I have an Apple CD which allows installation of OS 9.2.2 on any mac which has Tiger running and
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 29, 2007
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            --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Randall C. Wilson"
            <shieldwolf@...> wrote:
            >
            > Are we certain that SheepShaver will be needed to run a classic
            > application under Leopard? Tiger ended support for classic as well,
            > but if you install Tiger onto a PPC machine that already has Classic
            > and a working OS9 folder installed, Classic continues to run fine
            > under Tiger.
            >
            > The one thing I found-after reformatting a Powerbook and installing
            > Tiger-is that you cannot install OS9 on a machine if Tiger is already
            > installed. (OS 9 must be installed before Tiger.)

            I hate to disagree with this notion but I have to since I have an
            Apple CD which allows installation of OS 9.2.2 on any mac which has
            Tiger running and does not have a current OS 9 installation. this
            includes those PowerMacs which cannot boot into OS 9. It does not,
            however, include the newer Intel Macs. Just the PPC ones.

            >
            > 7:10 PM -0700 on 10/27/07, Bob Stern wrote:
            > >In preparation for Leopard, I just installed John Rethorst's
            > >wonderful SheepShaver package on my PPC Mac in Tiger. (Thanks a
            > >million, John!)
            >
            >
            > --
            > /S/ Randall
            >
            > mailto:rwilson@...
            >
            > Alternate: mailto:gryndal@...
            >

            RickF
          • John Sandel
            Well, then, I m confused. What precisely does it mean to say that an iteration of the OS has ended support for Classic -- ? JS
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 29, 2007
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              Well, then, I'm confused. What precisely does it mean to say that an
              iteration of the OS has "ended support for Classic" -- ?

              JS


              On 10/29/07, Randall C. Wilson <shieldwolf@...> wrote:
              > Are we certain that SheepShaver will be needed to run a classic
              > application under Leopard? Tiger ended support for classic as well,
              > but if you install Tiger onto a PPC machine that already has Classic
              > and a working OS9 folder installed, Classic continues to run fine
              > under Tiger.
            • Bob Stern
              ... Tiger did not end support for Classic. It just did not ship with Classic because Classic would not run on any of the Macs that were in production. If you
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 29, 2007
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                >Randall C. Wilson wrote:
                >
                >Tiger ended support for classic as well, but if you install Tiger
                >onto a PPC machine that already has Classic and a working OS9 folder
                >installed, Classic continues to run fine under Tiger.


                Tiger did not end support for Classic. It just did not ship with
                Classic because Classic would not run on any of the Macs that were in
                production. If you had an older Mac, you had to install Classic from
                the original installation CD for your computer.

                Leopard is different. It really ends support for Classic. You
                cannot install Classic on Leopard.

                Of course, you still can install an OS 9 system folder, but you'll
                have to reboot the machine in OS 9 rather than running OS 9 and OS X
                simultaneously.

                Hence the need for SheepShaver.
                --

                Bob Stern
              • Doug Auwarter
                This may be a small point, but my Mac Mini (PPC) came loaded with Tiger and Classic. Because my machine had been used as a demo, I did a clean install using
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 29, 2007
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                  This may be a small point, but my Mac Mini (PPC) came loaded with
                  Tiger and Classic. Because my machine had been used as a demo, I did
                  a clean install using the discs that came with the computer and there
                  was Classic on those discs.
                  Best,
                  Doug

                  On Oct 29, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Bob Stern wrote:

                  > Tiger did not end support for Classic. It just did not ship with
                  > Classic because Classic would not run on any of the Macs that were in
                  > production. If you had an older Mac, you had to install Classic from
                  > the original installation CD for your computer.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Douglas Bouley
                  Same was true of my PB 17, fwliw... TOD (The Other Doug) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 29, 2007
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                    Same was true of my PB 17, fwliw...

                    TOD (The Other Doug)

                    Doug Auwarter wrote:
                    > This may be a small point, but my Mac Mini (PPC) came loaded with
                    > Tiger and Classic. Because my machine had been used as a demo, I did
                    > a clean install using the discs that came with the computer and there
                    > was Classic on those discs.
                    > Best,
                    > Doug
                    >
                    > On Oct 29, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Bob Stern wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >> Tiger did not end support for Classic. It just did not ship with
                    >> Classic because Classic would not run on any of the Macs that were in
                    >> production. If you had an older Mac, you had to install Classic from
                    >> the original installation CD for your computer.
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Randall C. Wilson
                    I m just referring to my own experience on a Titanium Powerbook. Once Tiger was installed all attempts to install OS9 (from original installation disks) failed
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 29, 2007
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                      I'm just referring to my own experience on a Titanium Powerbook.
                      Once Tiger was installed all attempts to install OS9 (from original
                      installation disks) failed because the installer programs insisted
                      that the hard drive (which had been re-initialized before installing
                      Tiger) already contained a system folder. After two days of
                      frustration, what worked was going back to Panther, installing an OS9
                      partition and then upgrading to Tiger. It's pretty much a forgotten
                      issue now. Other users experiences may have varied.

                      >I hate to disagree with this notion but I have to since I have an
                      >Apple CD which allows installation of OS 9.2.2 on any mac which has
                      >Tiger running and does not have a current OS 9 installation. this
                      >includes those PowerMacs which cannot boot into OS 9. It does not,
                      >however, include the newer Intel Macs. Just the PPC ones.
                    • philo_doozy
                      Used the SheepShaver install found here. It is flawless on my Intel Mac. But not on my G5. There... The JIT Compiler option was not present in SheepShaverGUI.
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                        Used the SheepShaver install found here.

                        It is flawless on my Intel Mac.

                        But not on my G5. There...

                        The JIT Compiler option was not present in SheepShaverGUI.

                        I get the "quit unexpectedly" message as mentioned.
                        Continue, start Mac OS, see the desktop.

                        But then if I click on anything (or, after a few seconds, even if I don't)
                        I get the spinning beachball. And can do nothing to it but force quit.

                        Any ideas?

                        Where is the data for SheepShaver kept? So I can remove it and start over?
                        [If I remove the obvious things and start over, SheepShaverGUI still has the settings.]
                      • philo_doozy
                        ... With Leopard it means: even if you have an OS 9 System Folder, you still cannot start the Classic environment. There is no Classic system preference.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                          --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "John Sandel" <flagnab@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Well, then, I'm confused. What precisely does it mean to say that an
                          > iteration of the OS has "ended support for Classic" -- ?
                          >
                          > JS
                          >

                          With Leopard it means: even if you have an OS 9 System Folder, you still cannot start the
                          Classic environment. There is no "Classic" system preference.
                        • Bob Stern
                          ... ~/Library/com.yourcompany.SheepShaverPrefs.plist -- Bob Stern
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                            >philo_doozy wrote:
                            >
                            >Where is the data for SheepShaver kept? So I can remove it and start over?

                            ~/Library/com.yourcompany.SheepShaverPrefs.plist
                            --

                            Bob Stern
                          • Chad Smith
                            Which means if you want to run Classic applications at all under Leopard - you need something like SheepShaver. Which means SheepShaver is going to get a lot
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                              Which means if you want to run Classic applications at all under Leopard -
                              you need something like SheepShaver. Which means SheepShaver is going to
                              get a lot more popular. Apple has already sold over 2 million copies of
                              Leopard. And that's not counting the sales of new Macs with Leopard
                              pre-installed.

                              --
                              - Chad Smith
                              http://www.chadwsmith.com/

                              On 10/30/07, philo_doozy <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com <wordperfectmac%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > "John Sandel" <flagnab@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Well, then, I'm confused. What precisely does it mean to say that an
                              > > iteration of the OS has "ended support for Classic" -- ?
                              > >
                              > > JS
                              > >
                              >
                              > With Leopard it means: even if you have an OS 9 System Folder, you still
                              > cannot start the
                              > Classic environment. There is no "Classic" system preference.
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • philo_doozy
                              ... Didn t find such a file. Not even if I put in /Preferences in the obvious place. Nor using the global /Library ...???
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                                --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Bob Stern <bob_stern@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >philo_doozy wrote:
                                > >
                                > >Where is the data for SheepShaver kept? So I can remove it and start over?
                                >
                                > ~/Library/com.yourcompany.SheepShaverPrefs.plist
                                > --
                                >
                                > Bob Stern
                                >

                                Didn't find such a file. Not even if I put in /Preferences in the obvious place. Nor using the
                                global /Library ...???
                              • philo_doozy
                                ... No such file. Here it is: ~/.sheepshaver_prefs
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                                  --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Bob Stern <bob_stern@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >philo_doozy wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >Where is the data for SheepShaver kept? So I can remove it and start over?
                                  >
                                  > ~/Library/com.yourcompany.SheepShaverPrefs.plist
                                  > --
                                  >
                                  > Bob Stern
                                  >

                                  No such file.
                                  Here it is:
                                  ~/.sheepshaver_prefs
                                • John Rethorst
                                  ... Which means that the open-source development of SS is going to get a lot more popular, and the remaining quirks with the unix/transfer folder will be
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                                    --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Chad Smith" <chad78@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Which means if you want to run Classic applications at all under Leopard -
                                    > you need something like SheepShaver. Which means SheepShaver is going to
                                    > get a lot more popular. Apple has already sold over 2 million copies of
                                    > Leopard. And that's not counting the sales of new Macs with Leopard
                                    > pre-installed.

                                    Which means that the open-source development of SS is going to get
                                    a lot more popular, and the remaining quirks with the unix/transfer
                                    folder will be ironed out faster.

                                    John R.
                                  • Bill Bossart
                                    One note. I am almost ready to buy an iMac and I will wait until Leopard comes installed. Not yet. ... Bill Bossart whbossart@ucdavis.edu
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                                      One note. I am almost ready to buy an iMac and I will wait until
                                      Leopard comes installed. Not yet.
                                      On Oct 30, 2007, at 6:09 PM, John Rethorst wrote:

                                      > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Chad Smith" <chad78@...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >> Which means if you want to run Classic applications at all under
                                      >> Leopard -
                                      >> you need something like SheepShaver. Which means SheepShaver is
                                      >> going to
                                      >> get a lot more popular. Apple has already sold over 2 million
                                      >> copies of
                                      >> Leopard. And that's not counting the sales of new Macs with Leopard
                                      >> pre-installed.
                                      >
                                      > Which means that the open-source development of SS is going to get
                                      > a lot more popular, and the remaining quirks with the unix/transfer
                                      > folder will be ironed out faster.
                                      >
                                      > John R.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      Bill Bossart
                                      whbossart@...
                                    • Chad Smith
                                      Leopard *does* come pre-installed now. I was just saying (and, after looking it up, incorrectly) that the 2 million sales don t count Macs with Leopard. But
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Oct 30, 2007
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                                        Leopard *does* come pre-installed now. I was just saying (and, after
                                        looking it up, incorrectly) that the 2 million sales don't count Macs with
                                        Leopard. But I was wrong. It was counting both sales of Leopard and Mac
                                        with Leopard installed. All new Macs ship with Mac OS X 10.5 - Leopard (or
                                        10.5 Server) pre-installed. Including iMacs.

                                        I'd wait to see what happens next Tuesday, though. There are rumors of
                                        MacBooks or other Macs geting upgraded.

                                        --
                                        - Chad Smith
                                        http://www.chadwsmith.com/

                                        On 10/30/07, Bill Bossart <whbossart@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > One note. I am almost ready to buy an iMac and I will wait until
                                        > Leopard comes installed. Not yet.
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • philo_doozy
                                        ... OK I got it to work. I threw away .sheepshaver_prefs and started over. I m not sure, but maybe the problem was setting the Unix volume to / but not having
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Oct 31, 2007
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                                          --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, philo_doozy <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > But then if I click on anything (or, after a few seconds, even if I don't)
                                          > I get the spinning beachball. And can do nothing to it but force quit.
                                          >

                                          OK I got it to work. I threw away .sheepshaver_prefs and started over.
                                          I'm not sure, but maybe the problem was setting the Unix volume to /
                                          but not having write permission there?

                                          Anyway it is now working.
                                        • John Rethorst
                                          ... SS developers recommend not setting the Unix folder to the root folder of your HD, or to your Home folder. I use ~/Home/Documents without problems. Others
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Oct 31, 2007
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                                            --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, philo_doozy <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, philo_doozy <no_reply@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > But then if I click on anything (or, after a few seconds, even if I don't)
                                            > > I get the spinning beachball. And can do nothing to it but force quit.
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > OK I got it to work. I threw away .sheepshaver_prefs and started over.
                                            > I'm not sure, but maybe the problem was setting the Unix volume to /
                                            > but not having write permission there?

                                            SS developers recommend not setting the Unix folder to the root folder
                                            of your HD, or to your Home folder. I use ~/Home/Documents without
                                            problems. Others make a new folder in a folder where they have write
                                            permission and use that.

                                            John R.
                                          • Bill Bossart
                                            But not from Apple directly. Apple seems to have available iMacs with Tiger. Others like Small Dog have iMacs with Leopard backordered. Since I get a discount
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Oct 31, 2007
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                                              But not from Apple directly. Apple seems to have available iMacs with
                                              Tiger. Others like Small Dog have iMacs with Leopard backordered.
                                              Since I get a discount and free shipping, I will probably wait for
                                              Apple.

                                              On Oct 30, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Chad Smith wrote:

                                              > Leopard *does* come pre-installed now. I was just saying (and, after
                                              > looking it up, incorrectly) that the 2 million sales don't count
                                              > Macs with
                                              > Leopard. But I was wrong. It was counting both sales of Leopard
                                              > and Mac
                                              > with Leopard installed. All new Macs ship with Mac OS X 10.5 -
                                              > Leopard (or
                                              > 10.5 Server) pre-installed. Including iMacs.
                                              >
                                              > I'd wait to see what happens next Tuesday, though. There are
                                              > rumors of
                                              > MacBooks or other Macs geting upgraded.
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > - Chad Smith
                                              > http://www.chadwsmith.com/
                                              >
                                              > On 10/30/07, Bill Bossart <whbossart@...> wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >> One note. I am almost ready to buy an iMac and I will wait until
                                              >> Leopard comes installed. Not yet.
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

                                              Bill Bossart
                                              whbossart@...
                                            • Chad Smith
                                              I just got off the Apple Store chat with Nina, who was a very helpful and patient Apple Expert. She said that what is happening is that they already had a
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Oct 31, 2007
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                                                I just got off the Apple Store chat with Nina, who was a very helpful and
                                                patient Apple Expert. She said that what is happening is that they already
                                                had a bunch of iMacs built, with Tiger installed on them. Then, when
                                                Leopard Day happened, they had to start doing erase-installs of Leopard. If
                                                you order an iMac today, you might get one with Tiger installed - but you
                                                will have the Leopard install disks, so you could upgrade them yourself. A
                                                hassle? Sure, when you are used to getting that "It just works" freshness
                                                from Apple (I was floored when my MacBook was fully charged out of the
                                                box!) But, installing Mac OS X isn't difficult or terribly time consuming.
                                                About an hour from start to finish, and involves you for about 5 minutes.

                                                But, if you want to wait, that's understandable. Just wanted to let you
                                                know that you won't be stuck with Tiger, just having to run the install
                                                yourself.

                                                Plus, I hear big things will happen on Nov 6, so it might be better to wait
                                                anyway.

                                                --
                                                - Chad Smith
                                                http://www.chadwsmith.com/

                                                On 10/31/07, Bill Bossart <whbossart@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > But not from Apple directly. Apple seems to have available iMacs with
                                                > Tiger. Others like Small Dog have iMacs with Leopard backordered.
                                                > Since I get a discount and free shipping, I will probably wait for
                                                > Apple.
                                                >
                                              • Daryl Chinn
                                                This is a footnote to the Leopard/SS/OS9/Classic discussion. People have been talking about being able, with Leopard, to reboot into OS9/Classic. One could
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Oct 31, 2007
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                                                  This is a footnote to the Leopard/SS/OS9/Classic
                                                  discussion.

                                                  People have been talking about being able, with
                                                  Leopard, to reboot into OS9/Classic. One could do
                                                  this on older PPC machines; I have a Titanium
                                                  Powerbook with this capability.

                                                  However, on the last PPC machines, Apple designed them
                                                  so that you could NOT re-boot into OS9. I have one of
                                                  these, so I am still running WP on OS 10.4.10 with
                                                  Classic. My local Apple dealer says that if I can't
                                                  re-boot into OS 9 now, I won't be able to do it with
                                                  Leopard. SS here I come when I get the next Mac...

                                                  Daryl
                                                  --- "Randall C. Wilson" <shieldwolf@...> wrote:

                                                  > I'm just referring to my own experience on a
                                                  > Titanium Powerbook.
                                                  > Once Tiger was installed all attempts to install OS9
                                                  > (from original
                                                  > installation disks) failed because the installer
                                                  > programs insisted
                                                  > that the hard drive (which had been re-initialized
                                                  > before installing
                                                  > Tiger) already contained a system folder. After two
                                                  > days of
                                                  > frustration, what worked was going back to Panther,
                                                  > installing an OS9
                                                  > partition and then upgrading to Tiger. It's pretty
                                                  > much a forgotten
                                                  > issue now. Other users experiences may have varied.
                                                  >
                                                  > >I hate to disagree with this notion but I have to
                                                  > since I have an
                                                  > >Apple CD which allows installation of OS 9.2.2 on
                                                  > any mac which has
                                                  > >Tiger running and does not have a current OS 9
                                                  > installation. this
                                                  > >includes those PowerMacs which cannot boot into OS
                                                  > 9. It does not,
                                                  > >however, include the newer Intel Macs. Just the PPC
                                                  > ones.
                                                  >
                                                  >
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