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Re: [wpmac] Reply to MS Word documents

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  • Randy B. Singer
    I realize that this is a WordPerfect/Mac list, and like the other members of this list I am very fond of, and even enthusiastic about, WordPerfect/Mac. (Though
    Message 1 of 15 , May 13 12:56 AM
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      I realize that this is a WordPerfect/Mac list, and like the other
      members of this list I am very fond of, and even enthusiastic about,
      WordPerfect/Mac. (Though I switched to Word a few years after Corel
      abandoned WP/Mac as a matter of expedience.) But I usually find
      Microsoft Word bashing to be mostly based on fallacious premises, and
      I feel compelled, as a Word user, to point this out.

      (I can't argue with hatred for Microsoft, and I wholeheartedly agree
      that Microsoft deserves to be hated. But some of us have to use the
      best tools available to us for our businesses, and so, as a matter of
      practicality, use Word as the only high-end word processor for the
      Mac that is still actively being sold and supported.)

      On May 12, 2007, at 2:32 PM, John Rethorst wrote:

      > A current thread on Usenet concerns the practice of
      > emailing information in MS Word format, or posting
      > documents on the web in that format, on the assumption
      > that everyone can read it.

      I've seen this discussed on a couple of Mac discussion lists. The
      actual discussions that I've seen don't necessarily support what you
      have cited.

      > A post suggests this reply:
      >
      > "You have sent me a text file as a Microsoft Word
      > attachment which I have deleted.

      Not everyone can afford to do this. If you have a job, the Word file
      format is the de facto (like it or not) file format for word
      processing documents. It isn't practical, or wise, to delete files
      that you receive from co-workers or others associated with your
      business. At least not if you want to remain employed.

      > Because my mail is read
      > from a variety of machines both while travelling and at
      > various places of work, I do not always have access to MS
      > Word, nor do I use MS Word on a daily basis

      Just about every single modern word processor has Word translators.
      AppleWorks or Pages come with/came with many new Macs. Both do a
      nice job of opening Word files. You can even open Word files nicely
      in lowly TextEdit, which comes with OS X.

      If you prefer, you can open Word files in icWord, an inexpensive
      shareware program that does an excellent job.
      http://www.panergy-software.com/products/icWord/

      You aren't forced to own Word, or any Microsoft product, to read Word
      files sent to you. In most cases you aren't even forced to purchase
      anything extra beyond what you already have.

      In short, there is no excuse not to be able to open a Word file that
      you receive. As I said above, it is a de facto standard, so everyone
      supports it.

      (As a side note, WordPerfect/Mac always did only a fair to poor job
      of opening Word format files, even when DataViz's translators were
      included, and I believe that this contributed strongly to its demise.)

      > and the version
      > of MS Word I do have is probably hopelessly out of date and
      > incompatible with your document anyway.

      Lots of folks who don't use Word like to go around saying that
      Microsoft changes the file format for Word with every version. Not
      only is that not true, but the truth is that Microsoft has gone out
      of its way to ensure backwards and forwards file compatibility.

      Word has had essentially the same basic file format for the past
      three versions of the program. Files from previous versions open
      just fine in even the latest version. *And* Microsoft has
      consistently offered translators to allow older versions of Word to
      open files from newer versions.

      For instance, here is a plug-in, provided for free from Microsoft,
      to allow Word 5.1 to read Word documents created by newer versions of
      Word:

      <http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.aspx?pid=download&location=/
      mac/download/office98/
      word_97982000_convert.xml&secid=20&ssid=8&flgnosysreq=False>

      Lots of folks still use Word 5.1(a program from well over a decade
      ago) effectively, with no file format problems when sharing files
      with others.

      The recently introduced Word file format (so far Windows only, but
      soon to come to the Mac), based on XML, OpenXML/Doc-X, is not
      proprietary. It is an ISO-certified open format. Everyone has
      access to the format''s complete specifications, so any developer can
      create perfect translators or use this file format in their product.
      http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/products/HA102057841033.aspx

      And while Microsoft hasn't provided translators yet for the Mac
      version of Word for Doc-X, there are already translators available
      from third parties, some of which are free.

      > By attaching a
      > message that could have been inserted into your mail as
      > plain text using simple cut-and-paste,

      It's true that if you are writing a short e-mail message that
      requires no formatting, plain text in the body of the message is the
      way to go. This has nothing to do with MS Word, it is just a matter
      of netiquette and common sense.

      However, if you are sending folks a document that requires complex
      formatting, a word processing document sent as a file attachment is
      the way to go, and the Word file format is the lingua franka of the
      business world, like it or not.

      > you are forcing me
      > to save, decode and move your message to a different
      > machine which is a labourious and time-consuming procedure.

      This is pure BS. As I outlined above, its dead easy to find/keep
      something on your computer, laptop or not, that will open Word files.

      > It also forces me involuntarily to expose the other machine
      > to potential viruses both binary and macro, which is
      > unecessary and inconsiderate.

      I don't know of any non-macro viruses that can infect Word files. I
      don't think that there are any. This is pure FUD. (Fear,
      Uncertainty and Doubt.)

      While there are literally hundreds of macro viruses for Word, some of
      which are cross-platform, it is dead easy to avoid being infected by
      them. Just enable Macro Virus Protection in Preferences in Word.
      More FUD.

      > If you feel that your document has formatting which is
      > essential for my understanding, kindly save it as html, XML
      > or RTF before sending.

      HTML is not a reliable format for documents (witness how much trouble
      a good Webmaster has to go through to make sure that his/her site
      will render properly for as many visitors as possible), and it is not
      as feature-rich as most word processing formats.

      RTF is just another, less robust, Microsoft format. Chances are
      excellent that if you have something that can handle an RTF file that
      it can also handle a Word file just as well.

      XML is only now becoming popular, and its implementations vary
      considerably. It is disingenuous to complain about receiving Word
      files because you can't find something to open them, and then turn
      around and ask for files in XML format. Who is currently using XML-
      based word processors and what do you have that will open various XML
      files reliably?


      I believe that this all originated with this piece:
      <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>
      I think that the Stallman piece is simply a propaganda piece, and it
      contains a large number of severe inaccuracies. (Lies?)

      If you hate Microsoft I think that you should just be honest and
      come out and say so. If you want to organize a boycott of
      Microsoft's products because you hate Microsoft, do it. I can
      respect both of these things. But spreading lies and FUD isn't
      honorable, and, frankly, makes someone like Stallman no better than
      Microsoft.

      Ultimately, if you want to get people to stop using Word and the Word
      file format, you will have to offer them a better alternative. I
      think that Mac users should spend their time writing to Corel,
      encouraging them to bring back WP/Mac (and the new version should
      support an open-standard XML-based file format), rather than lower
      themselves by spreading FUD about Word.

      ___________________________________________
      Randy B. Singer
      Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

      Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
      http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
      ___________________________________________
    • drderbes
      ... A small correction. We may disagree about the definition of high end , but there are at least three other actively supported word processors besides
      Message 2 of 15 , May 13 4:26 AM
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        --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Randy B. Singer <randy@...> wrote:
        >
        > I realize that this is a WordPerfect/Mac list, and like the other
        > members of this list I am very fond of, and even enthusiastic about,
        > WordPerfect/Mac. (Though I switched to Word a few years after Corel
        > abandoned WP/Mac as a matter of expedience.) But I usually find
        > Microsoft Word bashing to be mostly based on fallacious premises, and
        > I feel compelled, as a Word user, to point this out.
        >
        > (I can't argue with hatred for Microsoft, and I wholeheartedly agree
        > that Microsoft deserves to be hated. But some of us have to use the
        > best tools available to us for our businesses, and so, as a matter of
        > practicality, use Word as the only high-end word processor for the
        > Mac that is still actively being sold and supported.)

        A small correction. We may disagree about the definition of "high
        end", but there are at least three other actively supported word
        processors besides Microsoft Word available for Mac OS X, and two of
        them are sold: the word processor in OpenOffice, Nisus Writer, and
        Mellel. I use Nisus on a regular basis, and it seems to me at least as
        "high end" as Word. I continue to use WP, which was my main word
        processor for the better part of twenty years, to maintain and upgrade
        old handouts for my physics students, but gradually these are being
        turned into LaTeX. Were Corel or some other company to produce a
        native OS X version of WP, I would purchase it at once. (Incidentally,
        Nisus does a good job of importing and exporting WP.)

        In fact my main tool for word processing has become LaTeX. The editor
        I use for LaTeX is Richard Koch's wonderful (and free) TeXShop, but
        many people I know and respect can't say enough good things about
        TextMate. LaTeX does not belong to a corporation, but to argue that
        this takes it out of the realm of "active support" is silly; the
        TeX/LaTeX community seems to me huge, growing, and very active.

        I read the anti-Word/MS message John quoted many years ago. It seemed
        to me over the top even then, when MS was a much greater threat than
        it is today. The same message could be conveyed in a much simpler, and
        less antagonistic manner: "Thanks for your attachment. I do not own
        Word, and cannot open documents in Word format. Could you resend as
        plain text, PDF or RTF? Many thanks." Whether or not the famously
        abrasive Richard Stallman was the author, it seems to be widely
        acknowledged that he is a genius whose generous and massive
        contributions to computing have revolutionized the way we work, and I
        am very grateful to him. (The unsung heroes of OS X probably include
        Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman and Bill Joy, among countless others.)

        Microsoft is, in my opinion, a spent force in personal computing.
        Windows is like a beached whale, doomed to be suffocated under its own
        weight. GNU/Linux or another Unix-based OS like Mac OS X is becoming
        (has become already?) the standard, independent of machine
        architecture or chip. Office will continue for perhaps another two
        iterations, and then it will simply fade away slowly (the recent Sun
        announcement about a native OpenOffice just reinforces this belief.)

        I used to hate Microsoft. Now I just ignore them.

        Best wishes to John and Randy.

        David Derbes
        U of Chicago Lab Schools
      • Randy B. Singer
        ... Actually, there are a bunch of them: http://www.emailman.com/software/wordproc/mac.html ... While these are very nice word processors, and they may be good
        Message 3 of 15 , May 13 2:42 PM
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          On May 13, 2007, at 4:26 AM, drderbes wrote:

          > A small correction. We may disagree about the definition of "high
          > end", but there are at least three other actively supported word
          > processors besides Microsoft Word available for Mac OS X,

          Actually, there are a bunch of them:
          http://www.emailman.com/software/wordproc/mac.html

          > and two of
          > them are sold: the word processor in OpenOffice, Nisus Writer, and
          > Mellel. I use Nisus on a regular basis, and it seems to me at least as
          > "high end" as Word.

          While these are very nice word processors, and they may be good
          enough for some to use instead of WP/Mac or Word, they don't approach
          the features of WP/Mac or Word. If they did, just about everybody on
          this discussion list would have switched to one of them by now, and
          this list would have little reason to exist.

          > Microsoft is, in my opinion, a spent force in personal computing.
          > Windows is like a beached whale, doomed to be suffocated under its own
          > weight. GNU/Linux or another Unix-based OS like Mac OS X is becoming
          > (has become already?) the standard, independent of machine
          > architecture or chip. Office will continue for perhaps another two
          > iterations, and then it will simply fade away slowly (the recent Sun
          > announcement about a native OpenOffice just reinforces this belief.)

          It would be nice if that were the case, but like the many folks who
          have been predicting the demise of Apple for over a decade, I think
          that reports of Microsoft's (with over 90% of the personal computer
          market) demise are a bit premature. But who knows? No one ever
          thought that they would see Sears, and then K-Mart, humbled by a new
          upstart (Wal-Mart), or Toyota overtake General Motors, so anything
          can happen in business.

          Want to know what word processor that I'm keeping an eye on? iWork's
          Pages. First, one must realize that we all "like" programs that we
          are used to using, and we tend to dislike programs that we don't know
          how to use yet. So, putting aside that Pages is a program that most
          of us are new to and that it can be frustrating using a new program,
          have a look at Pages interface. It makes WP/Mac and Word look
          antiquated. While Pages isn't entirely intuitive (which is probably
          impossible to achieve with a modern, advanced word processor in any
          case) it does away with having to find features buried deep in
          branching menus. Things can be accomplished and fine-tuned by
          pointing and clicking rather than by having to navigate multiple
          dialog boxes. I am very much looking forward to Pages 3. I suspect
          that version will allow many Mac-users of Word to say goodbye to
          Word. (Though I suspect that Pages 3 is unlikely to be a true high-
          end product.) If Apple introduces the spreadsheet program that has
          been rumored for years, users may be able to say goodbye to Office as
          a whole also.

          ___________________________________________
          Randy B. Singer
          Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

          Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
          http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
          ___________________________________________
        • Ford Davis
          I joined this list to support a school principal needing WP to work on her MAC a couple of years ago. As a technology instructor/troubleshooter, I have seen
          Message 4 of 15 , May 13 9:23 PM
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            I joined this list to support a school principal needing WP to work on
            her MAC a couple of years ago. As a technology
            instructor/troubleshooter, I have seen the most amazing support on this
            list by John Rethorst as well as others on the list for the WP Mac
            community. High regards for all your work ... the quality of software
            makes it worth the work I am sure.

            I have used Word since it's first release, and the first IBM mouse. I
            am not a MS worshiper, and yet my students will most likely use it, or
            the clone substitutes out today. That is my reality, and I use the OS X
            version in teaching. I agree with David Derbes, MS is on the way down,
            very much like IBM. They will be there, but their "time" has gone.
            They bet on profit first and missed the human factor. Bill is on top
            though ... for the moment! The original document where he attacked the
            early "customers" of his code is here in Albuquerque in a permanent
            museum exhibit. He has asked for some of the grief the PC platform
            suffers under at the moment...and for the future.

            On the emailing of MS Word formatted information, everyone may or may
            not be aware that with the Google Toolbar and Gmail (both free) .doc
            attachments just opened on the screen in your web browser via a Google
            software "word" engine. Same with .xls Excel files. If you set it up
            right, the attachments just open on the screen like a text portion of an
            email. This is their "Docs & Spreadsheets." You can choose to download
            your work completed in .doc or .xls format. With the added ability to
            share word and excel files to friends, workers or groups, any viruses
            would also be ineffectual as they would open on the Google environment.
            The service is free, and you do need Internet access, but if you have
            email you already have that ability. I do have some faith in the Google
            "Do No Harm" concept. Yes, I also accept it with a "block of salt."

            The "Word" and "Excel" formats may well be the standard, but I wouldn't
            doubt that their links to MS will fade into my history of software
            information for my students. Who knows, maybe the best elements of WP
            Mac will find their way into future iterations of the tools we we all
            use. Google might even be interested in rolling them into their free
            web version.

            To see Docs & Spreadsheets: http://docs.google.com/?pli=1
            To see other free Google stuff:
            http://www.google.com/intl/en/options/index.html

            Ford Davis
            Alb., NM

            John Rethorst wrote:
            >
            > A current thread on Usenet concerns the practice of
            > emailing information in MS Word format, or posting
            > documents on the web in that format, on the assumption
            > that everyone can read it. A post suggests this reply:
            >
            >
          • tbgibson
            I agree it is annoying to receive .doc attachments, especially from people who really don t know that there are any other formats out there (this includes a
            Message 5 of 15 , May 14 6:21 AM
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              I agree it is annoying to receive .doc attachments, especially from
              people who really don't know that there are any other formats out
              there (this includes a vast majority of the general population, I think).

              But I can always open or view them, so I don't bother to complain. In
              fact, I tend to open any .doc in TextEdit anyway because it takes Word
              such a long time to launch.

              My real problem is when my childrens' teachers create and post
              assignment in MS Publisher. Is there any way for us to open or view
              them our Intel and PPC Macs?

              Thanks.





              --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Randy B. Singer <randy@...> wrote:
              >
              > I realize that this is a WordPerfect/Mac list, and like the other
              > members of this list I am very fond of, and even enthusiastic about,
              > WordPerfect/Mac. (Though I switched to Word a few years after Corel
              > abandoned WP/Mac as a matter of expedience.) But I usually find
              > Microsoft Word bashing to be mostly based on fallacious premises, and
              > I feel compelled, as a Word user, to point this out.
              >

              >
            • Randall C. Wilson
              Most business contexts would not permit me to reply to a Word attachment with an emotion laden reply. ... De Facto standards are just that, they are de facto
              Message 6 of 15 , May 14 7:52 AM
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                Most business contexts would not permit me to reply to a Word
                attachment with an emotion laden reply.

                >If you have a job, the Word file
                >format is the de facto (like it or not) file format for word
                >processing documents. It isn't practical, or wise, to delete files
                >that you receive from co-workers or others associated with your
                >business. At least not if you want to remain employed.

                De Facto standards are just that, they are "de facto" because people
                choose overwhelmingly to use them.

                However, I would hardly say that Word is the only de facto standard
                for shipping word processing content. From my perspective pdf files
                are in most cases preferred over word attachments and can rightly
                claim to be just as, or more important than Word as a de-facto
                standard.

                --
                /S/ Randall

                mailto:rwilson@...

                Alternate: mailto:gryndal@...

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • gabi_kp4bjd
                I ve been following the thread on unreading MS Word documents. I yield to my senses by accepting that MS .doc will be around for some time. Text document
                Message 7 of 15 , May 14 9:31 AM
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                  I've been following the thread on "unreading" MS Word documents.
                  I yield to my senses by accepting that MS ".doc" will be around for
                  some time. Text document formating has been a real issue with me
                  since the Apple ][. From Apple Writer //e on to Apple Writer ///, to
                  MacWrite (1984), then MacWrite II, and finally my favorite: Word
                  Perfect (1990). It became COREL WordPerfect; I was delighted with
                  version 3.5 (1995). When Corel Corp stopped development but made
                  version 3.5e available free at their Web Site, I ran it in Classic mode
                  applying the available patch. Yet, eventually I yielded to using "other"
                  because it was a nuisance to run Classic mode, and it became more so
                  when Apple discontinued it for Intel machines. My point is this: users
                  continue to endure the growing pains of developing nascent software
                  that has yet to stabilize into accepted standards. Take WP: it had a
                  rather unique propietary formatting code that "text only" processors
                  couldn't decode; encryption made WP documents virtually impossible
                  to read by other processors. Nowadays I use MacLinkPlus to `decode'
                  the huge volume of those stored WP files I still have a need to access.
                  I tried AbiWord and others to no avail. In contrast, I long ago gave up
                  trying to read old Apple ][ VisiCalc files ... which leads me to comment
                  this: It's my fervent hope that software developers resolve the issue
                  of `universal readability' for any-kind-of-text documents ... say apply
                  some variety of automatic "Rosetta Stones" so that we are able to use
                  these software packages without needing to spend a great deal of time
                  figuring out how best to get them to read "obsolete" rich formats.


                  Gabe Fuentes San Juan, PR U.S.A.

                  --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Ford Davis <cyber@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I joined this list to support a school principal needing WP to work on
                  > her MAC a couple of years ago. As a technology
                  > instructor/troubleshooter, I have seen the most amazing support on this
                  > list by John Rethorst as well as others on the list for the WP Mac
                  > community. High regards for all your work ... the quality of software
                  > makes it worth the work I am sure.
                  >
                  > I have used Word since it's first release, and the first IBM mouse. I
                  > am not a MS worshiper, and yet my students will most likely use it, or
                  > the clone substitutes out today. That is my reality, and I use the OS X
                  > version in teaching. I agree with David Derbes, MS is on the way down,
                  > very much like IBM. They will be there, but their "time" has gone.
                  > They bet on profit first and missed the human factor. Bill is on top
                  > though ... for the moment! The original document where he attacked the
                  > early "customers" of his code is here in Albuquerque in a permanent
                  > museum exhibit. He has asked for some of the grief the PC platform
                  > suffers under at the moment...and for the future.
                  >
                  > On the emailing of MS Word formatted information, everyone may or may
                  > not be aware that with the Google Toolbar and Gmail (both free) .doc
                  > attachments just opened on the screen in your web browser via a Google
                  > software "word" engine. Same with .xls Excel files. If you set it up
                  > right, the attachments just open on the screen like a text portion of an
                  > email. This is their "Docs & Spreadsheets." You can choose to download
                  > your work completed in .doc or .xls format. With the added ability to
                  > share word and excel files to friends, workers or groups, any viruses
                  > would also be ineffectual as they would open on the Google environment.
                  > The service is free, and you do need Internet access, but if you have
                  > email you already have that ability. I do have some faith in the Google
                  > "Do No Harm" concept. Yes, I also accept it with a "block of salt."
                  >
                  > The "Word" and "Excel" formats may well be the standard, but I wouldn't
                  > doubt that their links to MS will fade into my history of software
                  > information for my students. Who knows, maybe the best elements of WP
                  > Mac will find their way into future iterations of the tools we we all
                  > use. Google might even be interested in rolling them into their free
                  > web version.
                  >
                  > To see Docs & Spreadsheets: http://docs.google.com/?pli=1
                  > To see other free Google stuff:
                  > http://www.google.com/intl/en/options/index.html
                  >
                  > Ford Davis
                  > Alb., NM
                • brian stegner
                  ... then you have Word poorly-configured, Word launches in a handful of seconds over here. Best Regards, Brian Stegner Minneapolis Monday May 14, 2007 12:14 PM
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 14 10:15 AM
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                    At 1:21 PM +0000 5/14/07, tbgibson wrote:

                    >But I can always open or view them, so I don't bother to complain. In
                    >fact, I tend to open any .doc in TextEdit anyway because it takes Word
                    >such a long time to launch.

                    then you have Word poorly-configured, Word launches in a handful of seconds over here.

                    Best Regards,
                    Brian Stegner

                    Minneapolis
                    Monday May 14, 2007
                    12:14 PM US/Central
                  • Syth
                    ... I CAN open them. I simply refuse to. ... I don t think so.
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 14 12:50 PM
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                      On 14-May-2007, at 07:21, tbgibson wrote:
                      > I agree it is annoying to receive .doc attachments, especially from
                      > people who really don't know that there are any other formats out
                      > there (this includes a vast majority of the general population, I
                      > think).
                      >
                      > But I can always open

                      I CAN open them. I simply refuse to.

                      > My real problem is when my childrens' teachers create and post
                      > assignment in MS Publisher. Is there any way for us to open or view
                      > them our Intel and PPC Macs?

                      I don't think so.
                    • Smokey Ardisson
                      At the risk of continuing this is a very bad way, I wanted to respond to two points Randy made. On Sun May 13, 2007 1:56 am ((PDT)), Randy B. Singer ... It s
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 14 9:01 PM
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                        At the risk of continuing this is a very bad way, I wanted to respond
                        to two points Randy made.

                        On Sun May 13, 2007 1:56 am ((PDT)), "Randy B. Singer"
                        <randy@...> wrote:

                        >The recently introduced Word file format (so far Windows only, but
                        >soon to come to the Mac), based on XML, OpenXML/Doc-X, is not
                        >proprietary. It is an ISO-certified open format.

                        It's up for review by ISO, but it hasn't been approved. It was
                        approved (some will say rubber-stamped) by the European Computer
                        Manufacturer's Association (ECMA).

                        >Everyone has
                        >access to the format''s complete specifications, so any developer can
                        >create perfect translators or use this file format in their product.
                        >http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/products/HA102057841033.aspx

                        While this is true in the strictest sense, it's somewhat misleading.
                        The specification exists (at over 6000 pages) and is
                        freely-available, but it is vague/poorly specified (your choice) and
                        continues to require non-Microsoft implementors to reverse engineer
                        software to figure out how to implement specified behaviors. If
                        you're at all interested in file formats or this issue, I urge you to
                        read
                        <http://www.robweir.com/blog/2006/01/how-to-hire-guillaume-portes.html>,
                        from which the following:

                        "So not only must an interoperable OOXML implementation first acquire
                        and reverse-engineer a 14-year old version of Microsoft Word, it must
                        also do the same thing with a 16-year old version of WordPerfect.
                        Good luck."

                        I will admit up front to having not read the whole spec, or any of it
                        other than those excerpts, but my impression from what I've read
                        about the issue is that there are a good number of legacy behaviors
                        encoded by the spec but poorly specified. Anyone is free (I guess)
                        to not implement import of these behaviors, or to guess at how
                        they're done, but doing se means your import is no linger faithful,
                        but lossy. Just ask Corel how that turned out. For some documents
                        it may not matter, but for feeling free to switch away from Word, the
                        threat of having to do some reformatting (even if only a little) on
                        *every single document* is certainly enough to stop switching.

                        Anyway, I've gone on too long about this. My point was only to say
                        that what Randy points out is true in the larger sense, but, as
                        always, the devil is in the details.

                        Smokey
                      • Randy B. Singer
                        ... This free Web site will convert Microsoft Publisher documents into PDF format (which you can then open in OS X s Preview):
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 14 11:19 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On May 14, 2007, at 6:21 AM, tbgibson wrote:

                          > My real problem is when my childrens' teachers create and post
                          > assignment in MS Publisher. Is there any way for us to open or view
                          > them our Intel and PPC Macs?

                          This free Web site will convert Microsoft Publisher documents into
                          PDF format (which you can then open in OS X's Preview):

                          https://www.pdfonline.com/convert_pdf.asp

                          ___________________________________________
                          Randy B. Singer
                          Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

                          Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
                          http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
                          ___________________________________________
                        • Geoff Gilbert
                          Randy That s fantastic. Thanks Geoff
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 14 11:26 PM
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                            Randy

                            That's fantastic.

                            Thanks

                            Geoff

                            >On May 14, 2007, at 6:21 AM, tbgibson wrote:
                            >
                            >> My real problem is when my childrens' teachers create and post
                            >> assignment in MS Publisher. Is there any way for us to open or view
                            >> them our Intel and PPC Macs?
                            >
                            >This free Web site will convert Microsoft Publisher documents into
                            >PDF format (which you can then open in OS X's Preview):
                            >
                            >https://www.pdfonline.com/convert_pdf.asp
                            >
                            >___________________________________________
                            >Randy B. Singer
                            >Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
                            >
                            >Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
                            >http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
                            >___________________________________________
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Aron S. Spencer
                            I have no particular problem with people sending or posting actual documents in MS Word, or whatever other format they happen to prefer. What really bugs me,
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 15 7:22 AM
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                              I have no particular problem with people sending or posting actual
                              "documents" in MS Word, or whatever other format they happen to
                              prefer. What really bugs me, though, is when people set Outlook to
                              use Word as their editor, and every single email they send has a Word
                              document as an attachment, _instead_ of any text in the body. I don't
                              want to have to open up Word just to read their mail. If their
                              sending me a research paper or whatever, fine. But as the body of
                              their email? Arrghh!!!!

                              On May 12, 2007, at 5:32 PM, John Rethorst wrote:

                              > A current thread on Usenet concerns the practice of
                              > emailing information in MS Word format, or posting
                              > documents on the web in that format, on the assumption
                              > that everyone can read it. A post suggests this reply:

                              Aron S. Spencer
                              Union, NJ 07083
                            • John Rethorst
                              It sure is. Link added to the Links section here. John R.
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 15 7:36 AM
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                                It sure is. Link added to the Links section here.

                                John R.


                                --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Gilbert <Geoff@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Randy
                                >
                                > That's fantastic.
                                >
                                > Thanks
                                >
                                > Geoff
                                >
                                > >On May 14, 2007, at 6:21 AM, tbgibson wrote:
                                > >
                                > >> My real problem is when my childrens' teachers create and post
                                > >> assignment in MS Publisher. Is there any way for us to open or view
                                > >> them our Intel and PPC Macs?
                                > >
                                > >This free Web site will convert Microsoft Publisher documents into
                                > >PDF format (which you can then open in OS X's Preview):
                                > >
                                > >https://www.pdfonline.com/convert_pdf.asp
                                > >
                                > >___________________________________________
                                > >Randy B. Singer
                                > >Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
                                > >
                                > >Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
                                > >http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
                                > >___________________________________________
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