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Re: [wpmac] WP RUNS ON INTEL!

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  • kevin
    Good for you it is nice to it is working for you. I think Apple could of released some kind of integrated Classic OS emulator with the Intel Macs it owuld of
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 15, 2006
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      Good for you it is nice to it is working for you. I think Apple could of released some kind of integrated Classic OS emulator with the Intel Macs it owuld of been a nice gesture.






      John Rethorst <jrethorst@...> wrote: And very nicely too!

      I'm using the free SheepShaver emulator, which is easy enough to install.
      But I couldn't get it to boot from anything but an OS install CD, although
      I had manually put a copy of OS 8.6 where it should be. So I tried
      installing OS 8.6 from the CD, and SheepShaver now works fine, and
      runs WordPerfect with no issues that I can see.

      This is on a MacBook Pro, 2 Ghz Intel Core Duo chip, 1 GB RAM. Comparing
      speed with a 1.25 Ghz PPC G4 iMac with 1 GB RAM, I spell-checked a
      48,000 word WP document with footnotes. The iMac took 16 seconds; the
      Intel took 20 seconds. In normal use, speed is indistinguishable between
      the two machines.

      I learned about SheepShaver at http://www.atpm.com/12.09/classic.shtml.

      I'll post more as I work with it.

      YAY!

      John R.








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    • Geoff Gilbert
      John When you say you tried installing OS8.6 from the CD , do you mean that you ran the install within Sheepshaver or that you can run the install programme
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 15, 2006
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        John

        When you say you "tried installing OS8.6 from the CD", do you mean
        that you ran the install within Sheepshaver or that you can run the
        install programme for 8.6 on an intel mac regardless. I'm guessing
        that you start up sheepshaver with the install disk in the CD drive
        (otherwise sheepshaver won't start) and then install the OS 8.6 on
        the hard disk. Yes?

        Geoff


        >And very nicely too!
        >
        >I'm using the free SheepShaver emulator, which is easy enough to install.
        >But I couldn't get it to boot from anything but an OS install CD, although
        >I had manually put a copy of OS 8.6 where it should be. So I tried
        >installing OS 8.6 from the CD, and SheepShaver now works fine, and
        >runs WordPerfect with no issues that I can see.
        >
        >This is on a MacBook Pro, 2 Ghz Intel Core Duo chip, 1 GB RAM. Comparing
        >speed with a 1.25 Ghz PPC G4 iMac with 1 GB RAM, I spell-checked a
        >48,000 word WP document with footnotes. The iMac took 16 seconds; the
        >Intel took 20 seconds. In normal use, speed is indistinguishable between
        >the two machines.
        >
        >I learned about SheepShaver at http://www.atpm.com/12.09/classic.shtml.
        >
        >I'll post more as I work with it.
        >
        >YAY!
        >
        >John R.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • John Rethorst
        ... Yep. Also, since I understand a lot of users still depend on that Classic program or two. FrameMaker, with which Apple has published a few books, such as
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 15, 2006
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          --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, kevin <ksaunders242@...> wrote:
          >
          > Good for you it is nice to it is working for you. I think Apple could of
          > released some kind of integrated Classic OS emulator with the Intel
          > Macs it owuld of been a nice gesture.

          Yep. Also, since I understand a lot of users still depend on that Classic
          program or two. FrameMaker, with which Apple has published a few
          books, such as the AppleScript Language Guide, never made it to OSX.
          Specialties like statistics too.

          Third parties have often led the way. When Connectix released RAM
          Doubler, Apple redid its memory management as much out of
          embarassment as anything else, or so I heard. Maybe SheepShaver's
          ease of use and speed will make Steve reconsider.

          Meanwhile, WP in emulation is running fine. Everything feels as fast.
          All the prefs work as usual.

          John R.
        • John Rethorst
          ... Correct. John R.
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 15, 2006
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            --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Gilbert <Geoff@...> wrote:
            >
            > John
            >
            > When you say you "tried installing OS8.6 from the CD", do you mean
            > that you ran the install within Sheepshaver or that you can run the
            > install programme for 8.6 on an intel mac regardless. I'm guessing
            > that you start up sheepshaver with the install disk in the CD drive
            > (otherwise sheepshaver won't start) and then install the OS 8.6 on
            > the hard disk. Yes?

            Correct.

            John R.
          • David R. Derbes
            John, this is great. Many thanks. Can you (or someone with some time, if you are too busy) write up idiot-proof instructions for exactly what to do to make
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 15, 2006
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              John, this is great. Many thanks.

              Can you (or someone with some time, if you are too busy) write up
              idiot-proof instructions for exactly what to do to make this happen
              on a random Intel Mac? (and remember, some of us idiots are pretty
              damn thick!)

              Many thanks again!

              Best wishes,
              David Derbes
              (who plans to buy a Mac Pro in the next four or five months, and who has
              fifteen years of old files in WPMac...)

              On Sun, 15 Oct 2006, John Rethorst wrote:

              > And very nicely too!
              >
              > I'm using the free SheepShaver emulator, which is easy enough to install.
              > But I couldn't get it to boot from anything but an OS install CD, although
              > I had manually put a copy of OS 8.6 where it should be. So I tried
              > installing OS 8.6 from the CD, and SheepShaver now works fine, and
              > runs WordPerfect with no issues that I can see.
              >
              > This is on a MacBook Pro, 2 Ghz Intel Core Duo chip, 1 GB RAM. Comparing
              > speed with a 1.25 Ghz PPC G4 iMac with 1 GB RAM, I spell-checked a
              > 48,000 word WP document with footnotes. The iMac took 16 seconds; the
              > Intel took 20 seconds. In normal use, speed is indistinguishable between
              > the two machines.
              >
              > I learned about SheepShaver at http://www.atpm.com/12.09/classic.shtml.
              >
              > I'll post more as I work with it.
              >
              > YAY!
              >
              > John R.
              >
              >
              >
            • John Sandel
              Second David s request. I ve followed the Sheepshaver Chronicles here & would be grateful for a brief step-by-step by whomever has accomplished this—& the
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 15, 2006
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                Second David's request. I've followed the "Sheepshaver Chronicles"
                here & would be grateful for a brief step-by-step by whomever has
                accomplished this�& the time to write it up.

                Call it the Cold Dead Fingers tutorial.

                JS



                On Oct 15, 2006, at 2:18 PM, David R. Derbes wrote:

                > John, this is great . . . Can you write up idiot-proof instructions
                > for exactly what to do to make this happen?


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John Sandel
                The page to which John linked details the steps for Sheepshaver. Any tips you have, though, John, based on your experience, will be much appreciated. JS
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 15, 2006
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                  The page to which John linked details the steps for Sheepshaver. Any
                  tips you have, though, John, based on your experience, will be much
                  appreciated.

                  JS
                • Bob Thompson
                  I third that, a step by step setup guide would be very appreciated Thanks Bob ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 18, 2006
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                    I third that, a step by step setup guide would be very appreciated

                    Thanks

                    Bob

                    On 10/16/06, John Sandel <johnsandel@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Second David's request. I've followed the "Sheepshaver Chronicles"
                    > here & would be grateful for a brief step-by-step by whomever has
                    > accomplished this�& the time to write it up.
                    >
                    > Call it the Cold Dead Fingers tutorial.
                    >
                    > JS
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Oct 15, 2006, at 2:18 PM, David R. Derbes wrote:
                    >
                    > > John, this is great . . . Can you write up idiot-proof instructions
                    > > for exactly what to do to make this happen?
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John Rethorst
                    I ll get to work on it. I want to try a setup with Basilisk first, though, since one of the original WP programmers (who s on this list) said that enough of WP
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 19, 2006
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                      I'll get to work on it. I want to try a setup with
                      Basilisk first, though, since one of the original
                      WP programmers (who's on this list) said that enough
                      of WP is 68K code that a 68K emulator, e.g. Basilisk,
                      might run faster than a PPC emulator like SheepShaver.
                      Interesting, since I'd thought that the speed-
                      critical parts of WP were all recoded in PPC for
                      that release.

                      What I really should do, for whichever emulator
                      runs faster, is put all the parts on a CD image
                      along with an Applescript installer. Would anyone
                      like to host a 400mb image?

                      John R.
                    • Kevin McCoy
                      The time critical parts are all (translated, thanks to Microlytics 68K- PPC cross compiler) in PPC. The conversions and some other minor parts are in 68K. So,
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 19, 2006
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                        The time critical parts are all (translated, thanks to Microlytics
                        68K->PPC cross compiler) in PPC. The conversions and some other minor
                        parts are in 68K. So, unless you are doing a lot of file opening/
                        saving from other formats you probably wont see a difference in
                        speed, unless the PPC emulator is slower than the 68K emulator. Or
                        vice-versa.
                        YMMV

                        On Oct 19, 2006, at 7:23 AM, John Rethorst wrote:

                        > I'll get to work on it. I want to try a setup with
                        > Basilisk first, though, since one of the original
                        > WP programmers (who's on this list) said that enough
                        > of WP is 68K code that a 68K emulator, e.g. Basilisk,
                        > might run faster than a PPC emulator like SheepShaver.
                        > Interesting, since I'd thought that the speed-
                        > critical parts of WP were all recoded in PPC for
                        > that release.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • kevin
                        Do you know what cpu basilik emulates (68000-68060)? could make a big difference too. Why not seed an image on Bittorent? that would be great. John
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 19, 2006
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                          Do you know what cpu basilik emulates (68000-68060)? could make a big difference too. Why not seed an image on Bittorent? that would be great.




                          John Rethorst <jrethorst@...> wrote: I'll get to work on it. I want to try a setup with
                          Basilisk first, though, since one of the original
                          WP programmers (who's on this list) said that enough
                          of WP is 68K code that a 68K emulator, e.g. Basilisk,
                          might run faster than a PPC emulator like SheepShaver.
                          Interesting, since I'd thought that the speed-
                          critical parts of WP were all recoded in PPC for
                          that release.

                          What I really should do, for whichever emulator
                          runs faster, is put all the parts on a CD image
                          along with an Applescript installer. Would anyone
                          like to host a 400mb image?

                          John R.








                          click here to visit my website www.myspace.com/kevin242



                          This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please promptly contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.


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                        • marco_merken
                          Hello John, if you will send me the image, I can place it on my webpages for download. Regrads, Marco ... too. Why not seed an image on Bittorent? that would
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 19, 2006
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                            Hello John,

                            if you will send me the image, I can place it on my webpages for download.

                            Regrads,
                            Marco

                            --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, kevin <ksaunders242@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Do you know what cpu basilik emulates (68000-68060)? could make a big difference
                            too. Why not seed an image on Bittorent? that would be great.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > John Rethorst <jrethorst@...> wrote: I'll get to work on it. I want to
                            try a setup with
                            > Basilisk first, though, since one of the original
                            > WP programmers (who's on this list) said that enough
                            > of WP is 68K code that a 68K emulator, e.g. Basilisk,
                            > might run faster than a PPC emulator like SheepShaver.
                            > Interesting, since I'd thought that the speed-
                            > critical parts of WP were all recoded in PPC for
                            > that release.
                            >
                            > What I really should do, for whichever emulator
                            > runs faster, is put all the parts on a CD image
                            > along with an Applescript installer. Would anyone
                            > like to host a 400mb image?
                            >
                            > John R.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > click here to visit my website www.myspace.com/kevin242
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended
                            recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized
                            review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
                            please promptly contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
                            message.
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
                            >
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                            >
                          • John Rethorst
                            ... I installed Basilisk II today, using the well-written instructions at http://www.atpm.com/12.09/classic.shtml. Running it with OS 7.6 on the MacBook,
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                              --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "John Rethorst" <jrethorst@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > And very nicely too!
                              >
                              > I'm using the free SheepShaver emulator, which is easy enough to install.
                              > But I couldn't get it to boot from anything but an OS install CD, although
                              > I had manually put a copy of OS 8.6 where it should be. So I tried
                              > installing OS 8.6 from the CD, and SheepShaver now works fine, and
                              > runs WordPerfect with no issues that I can see.
                              >
                              > This is on a MacBook Pro, 2 Ghz Intel Core Duo chip, 1 GB RAM. Comparing
                              > speed with a 1.25 Ghz PPC G4 iMac with 1 GB RAM, I spell-checked a
                              > 48,000 word WP document with footnotes. The iMac took 16 seconds; the
                              > Intel took 20 seconds. In normal use, speed is indistinguishable between
                              > the two machines.

                              I installed Basilisk II today, using the well-written instructions at
                              http://www.atpm.com/12.09/classic.shtml. Running it with OS 7.6 on the
                              MacBook, WordPerfect spellchecked this document in 23 seconds. Again,
                              everything works.

                              More to come . . .

                              John R.
                            • John Rethorst
                              In the Photos section here, you can see the screenshot I took (with my primitive cell phone camera) of WP on the MacBook Pro screen. Full screen height, as
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                                In the Photos section here, you can see the screenshot I took (with my
                                primitive cell phone camera) of WP on the MacBook Pro screen.

                                Full screen height, as much width as I wanted (I left room for icons at
                                the far right), full menu bar. In fact, that's the only difference I can
                                see between emulation on Intel via SheepShaver and emulation on a
                                PPC Mac via Classic - the former places a Classic menu bar immediately
                                below the OSX menu bar.

                                SheepShaver itself appears in the dock when running and, like any
                                application, can be put there permanently, as well as being set as a
                                startup item for your user account.

                                I don't see a whole lot of difference between SS and Classic. As an
                                earlier post notes, SS on a Macbook takes 20 seconds to spell-check
                                48,000 words including footnotes, while Classic on a G4 takes 16.
                                Intel chips are going to keep getting faster, of course.

                                I don't want to wager whether it will be one year or two before
                                WordPerfect runs faster than it ever has before.

                                John R.
                              • John Rethorst
                                Oh yes - Gero Herrmann s Spotlight plug-in, which he wrote as a universal binary (so an Intel Mac will index WP documents whether SheepShaver, or anything
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                                  Oh yes - Gero Herrmann's Spotlight plug-in, which he wrote as a
                                  universal binary (so an Intel Mac will index WP documents whether
                                  SheepShaver, or anything else, is installed), works just fine too.

                                  John R.
                                • hacky8sack
                                  John, OK, this all sounds fabulous, and should allow all of us to continue to use wp3.5e into the future. But one question: can you access the file structure
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 29, 2006
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                                    John,
                                    OK, this all sounds fabulous, and should allow all of us to continue
                                    to use wp3.5e into the future. But one question: can you access the
                                    file structure of OSX from within wp while running on SS? Can one
                                    directly open and save files resident in the directory of OSX? If not,
                                    what's the workaround?
                                    Steve





                                    --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "John Rethorst" <jrethorst@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Oh yes - Gero Herrmann's Spotlight plug-in, which he wrote as a
                                    > universal binary (so an Intel Mac will index WP documents whether
                                    > SheepShaver, or anything else, is installed), works just fine too.
                                    >
                                    > John R.
                                    >
                                  • John Rethorst
                                    ... It s close. Make a folder at some convenient place in OSX, and select it in SS prefs as a transfer folder. Put anything in that folder; it will show up in
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Oct 29, 2006
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                                      --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "hacky8sack" <hacky8sack@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > can you access the
                                      > file structure of OSX from within wp while running on SS? Can one
                                      > directly open and save files resident in the directory of OSX?

                                      It's close. Make a folder at some convenient place in OSX, and select
                                      it in SS prefs as a transfer folder. Put anything in that folder; it will
                                      show up in SS and vice versa.

                                      John R.
                                    • Bob Stern
                                      ... Can SS access folders within folders within the transfer folder? If so, you could designate your OS X Documents folder or Home folder as the transfer
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Oct 29, 2006
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                                        >John Rethorst wrote:
                                        >
                                        >Make a folder at some convenient place in OSX, and select it in SS
                                        >prefs as a transfer folder. Put anything in that folder; it will
                                        >show up in SS and vice versa.

                                        Can SS access folders within folders within the transfer folder? If
                                        so, you could designate your OS X Documents folder or Home folder as
                                        the transfer folder.
                                        --

                                        Bob Stern
                                      • John Rethorst
                                        ... Yes. You also have complete control over folder contents: make subfolders, move files etc. from SS as well as from OSX. Something like two OSX windows of
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Oct 29, 2006
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                                          --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Bob Stern <bob_stern@...> wrote:

                                          > Can SS access folders within folders within the transfer folder?

                                          Yes. You also have complete control over folder contents: make subfolders,
                                          move files etc. from SS as well as from OSX. Something like two OSX windows
                                          of the contents of one folder.

                                          > If so, you could designate your OS X Documents folder or Home folder as
                                          > the transfer folder.

                                          Yes, but the ATPM article (at http://www.atpm.com/12.09/classic.shtml)
                                          says:

                                          > It is not recommended that this path be to the root level of your
                                          > hard drive nor to your home folder.

                                          No reason given, but the caution is also in the SS author's help pages
                                          (at http://www.gibix.net/projects/sheepshaver/help/). It may be a
                                          memory issue. My OSX documents folder is probably the one I'll end
                                          up designating IAC.

                                          John R.
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