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Re: [wpmac] New user?

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  • John Rethorst
    ... I think that WP 3.0, released a few months after Word 6, briefly led the market. Mac users were very unhappy with Word 6; Macworld recommended WP 3 as the
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 10 4:01 PM
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      --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Bouley <djbouley@...> wrote:

      > Older Mac heads
      > than I correct me, but WP was not the lead player in the
      > Mac world back then, either, was it?

      I think that WP 3.0, released a few months after Word 6,
      briefly led the market. Mac users were very unhappy with
      Word 6; Macworld recommended WP 3 as the best word
      processor to be had; sales went up, but WP's display
      problems turned a lot of people off and a later version of
      Word retook first place.

      John R.
    • Matthew Wensley
      Since Sympatico has decided that no one needs the usenet usegroups anymore, I am not sure where to turn to for help with MS Excel for Mac. Does anyone know of
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 10 6:54 PM
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        Since Sympatico has decided that no one needs the usenet usegroups
        anymore, I am not sure where to turn to for help with MS Excel for
        Mac. Does anyone know of a list like this for excel?

        TIA

        Matt
        -------------
        "We are reluctant to admit that we owe our liberties
        to men of a type that today we hate and fear -- unruly men,
        disturbers of the peace, men who resent and denounce what Whitman
        called 'the insolence of elected persons' -- in a word, free men."
        -- Gerald W. Johnson
        (1890-1980)
        Source: American Freedom and the Press, 1958
      • Douglas Bouley
        I ve heard that, too. It has the ring of authenticity ... and I guess it worked. It s a shame.
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 10 8:41 PM
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          I've heard that, too. It has the "ring of authenticity"... and I guess
          it worked. It's a shame.

          John Rethorst wrote:
          > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Bouley <djbouley@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >> MS whomped WP way back in the Orem days before Corel or
          >> Novell. The original WP Corp took too long making the Win
          >> transition and lost too much market share.
          >>
          >
          > Therein lie some tales . . . I understand that WP took a long time
          > making it to Windows because WP programmers couldn't figure
          > out how to keep the program from crashing under Windows. I
          > understand this was because Microsoft did not make the entire
          > API - the environment provided by the OS, which an application
          > uses to run - available to WordPerfect (or Lotus, whose best-selling
          > 1-2-3 spreadsheet had similar troubles). I've heard that Microsoft
          > withheld critical information about Windows from its application
          > competitors. I've even heard that an unofficial design goal for
          > Windows updates was to make WordPerfect crash.
          >
          > John R.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Douglas Bouley
          Wasn t there some outfit called Beagle Brothers or something similar who was a player then, too? I misrecall. I was stuck on DOS back in those days...
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 10 9:12 PM
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            Wasn't there some outfit called Beagle Brothers or something similar who
            was a player then, too? I misrecall. I was stuck on DOS back in those
            days...

            John Rethorst wrote:
            > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Bouley <djbouley@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >> Older Mac heads
            >> than I correct me, but WP was not the lead player in the
            >> Mac world back then, either, was it?
            >>
            >
            > I think that WP 3.0, released a few months after Word 6,
            > briefly led the market. Mac users were very unhappy with
            > Word 6; Macworld recommended WP 3 as the best word
            > processor to be had; sales went up, but WP's display
            > problems turned a lot of people off and a later version of
            > Word retook first place.
            >
            > John R.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • John Rethorst
            ... You can access newsgroups from the web, at http://groups.google.com/. You can subscribe to groups, but I don t see a way to mark articles as read so they
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 10 9:19 PM
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              --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Wensley <mwensley@...> wrote:
              >
              > Since Sympatico has decided that no one needs the usenet usegroups
              > anymore, I am not sure where to turn to for help with MS Excel for
              > Mac. Does anyone know of a list like this for excel?

              You can access newsgroups from the web, at http://groups.google.com/.
              You can subscribe to groups, but I don't see a way to mark articles
              as read so they don't appear on the next visit.

              John R.
            • wrak2rune
              I seem to remember a quote in the 80s -- No doubt just another myth: Windows isn t done till Lotus won t run.
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 10 9:39 PM
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                I seem to remember a quote in the '80s -- No doubt just another myth:

                "Windows isn't done 'till Lotus won't run."

                --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Bouley <djbouley@...> wrote:
                >
                > I've heard that, too. It has the "ring of authenticity"... and I guess
                > it worked. It's a shame.
                >
                > John Rethorst wrote:
                > > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Bouley <djbouley@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >> MS whomped WP way back in the Orem days before Corel or
                > >> Novell. The original WP Corp took too long making the Win
                > >> transition and lost too much market share.
                > >>
                > >
                > > Therein lie some tales . . . I understand that WP took a long time
                > > making it to Windows because WP programmers couldn't figure
                > > out how to keep the program from crashing under Windows. I
                > > understand this was because Microsoft did not make the entire
                > > API - the environment provided by the OS, which an application
                > > uses to run - available to WordPerfect (or Lotus, whose best-selling
                > > 1-2-3 spreadsheet had similar troubles). I've heard that Microsoft
                > > withheld critical information about Windows from its application
                > > competitors. I've even heard that an unofficial design goal for
                > > Windows updates was to make WordPerfect crash.
                > >
                > > John R.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • John Rethorst
                ... Circa 1990 was the great age of the works programs. Microsoft had MS Works, which was lame partly because hardware of the time could barely support an
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 10 11:09 PM
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                  --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Bouley <djbouley@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Wasn't there some outfit called Beagle Brothers or something similar who
                  > was a player then, too? I misrecall. I was stuck on DOS back in those
                  > days...

                  Circa 1990 was the great age of the "works" programs.
                  Microsoft had MS Works, which was lame partly because
                  hardware of the time could barely support an all-in-one
                  word processor, spreadsheet, database and some graphics.

                  It put Lotus out of business in the Mac market, though.
                  Lotus had released Jazz, a works-type program whose word
                  processing documents were limited to 32k and whose
                  spreadsheet did not include macros. It did have some
                  interesting features, and no one knew how they managed to
                  get the application onto a 400k floppy.

                  For reasons beyond my technical level to appreciate, these
                  programs had to hold all open documents in RAM, a scarce
                  commodity in those days.

                  Hardware then improved to a point that supported better
                  works programs, and Beagle came along with BeagleWorks. It
                  was later bought by WordPerfect and renamed WordPerfect
                  Works. Reviewers gave its word processing module the best
                  grade, but it was buggy.

                  Symantec released GreatWorks, with an especially good
                  outliner for the program genre, and Claris released
                  ClarisWorks, with the best-reviewed spreadsheet of the lot.
                  As you know, Claris won.

                  John R.
                • Don Zahniser
                  ... Those folks interested in the history of software development may wish to visit http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bob/clarisworks.php - a history of the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 11 2:56 AM
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                    John Rethorst wrote:

                    >
                    > Hardware then improved to a point that supported better
                    > works programs, and Beagle came along with BeagleWorks. It
                    > was later bought by WordPerfect and renamed WordPerfect
                    > Works. Reviewers gave its word processing module the best
                    > grade, but it was buggy.
                    >
                    > Symantec released GreatWorks, with an especially good
                    > outliner for the program genre, and Claris released
                    > ClarisWorks, with the best-reviewed spreadsheet of the lot.
                    > As you know, Claris won.
                    >

                    Those folks interested in the history of software development may wish
                    to visit http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bob/clarisworks.php - a history of
                    the development of ClarisWorks by one of its authors.

                    An interesting note to me (a former Apple IIGS enthusiast), was that
                    most of the ClarisWorks team originated from StyleWare, which had been
                    working on GSWorks (later AppleWorks GS from Claris) and that Beagle
                    Bros ended up with the code to StyleWare's TopDraw and MultiScribe GS
                    (sold as BeagleDraw and BeagleWrite, respectively).

                    - Don
                  • Doug Auwarter
                    On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:56 AM, Don Zahniser wrote: Those folks interested in the history of software development may wish to visit
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 11 6:10 AM
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                      On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:56 AM, Don Zahniser wrote:

                      Those folks interested in the history of software development may wish
                      to visit http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bob/clarisworks.php - a history of
                      the development of ClarisWorks by one of its authors.

                      An interesting note to me (a former Apple IIGS enthusiast), was that
                      most of the ClarisWorks team originated from StyleWare, which had been
                      working on GSWorks (later AppleWorks GS from Claris) and that Beagle
                      Bros ended up with the code to StyleWare's TopDraw and MultiScribe GS
                      (sold as BeagleDraw and BeagleWrite, respectively).

                      Great story--thanks, Don!
                      As one that also likes Appleworks 5 and uses it almost as much as WP
                      (when the WP converters are acting up*) I've always wondered what
                      happened when Appleworks 6 came out. It's a complete dog compared to
                      5, especially the way the importation of graphics works (very
                      badly!). Why did this happen? How can you take a program that works
                      so well, and ruin its functionality in an upgrade? Anyone?
                      Best,
                      Doug

                      *sometimes importing jpg files or copying and pasting long documents.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Douglas Bouley
                      Lord forgive me, but I actually liked the old MS Works for DOS program. It was the first program to tell me not only how to use it s components, but what I
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 11 6:44 AM
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                        Lord forgive me, but I actually liked the old MS Works for DOS program.
                        It was the first program to tell me not only how to use it's components,
                        but what I would want to do with a spreadsheet vs a database, etc. Great
                        newbie stuff.
                        I eventually "wrote" an entire personnel application in it using the
                        baby macros and some batch files. Once I saw the power of WP DOS,
                        though, I was hooked. Still, the power came with quite a learning curve,
                        and I never did "write" an application in WP :-)

                        The Claris Works line made me drool the first time I saw it on a
                        friend's Mac.

                        John Rethorst wrote:
                        > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Bouley <djbouley@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> Wasn't there some outfit called Beagle Brothers or something similar who
                        >> was a player then, too? I misrecall. I was stuck on DOS back in those
                        >> days...
                        >>
                        >
                        > Circa 1990 was the great age of the "works" programs.
                        > Microsoft had MS Works, which was lame partly because
                        > hardware of the time could barely support an all-in-one
                        > word processor, spreadsheet, database and some graphics.
                        >
                        > It put Lotus out of business in the Mac market, though.
                        > Lotus had released Jazz, a works-type program whose word
                        > processing documents were limited to 32k and whose
                        > spreadsheet did not include macros. It did have some
                        > interesting features, and no one knew how they managed to
                        > get the application onto a 400k floppy.
                        >
                        > For reasons beyond my technical level to appreciate, these
                        > programs had to hold all open documents in RAM, a scarce
                        > commodity in those days.
                        >
                        > Hardware then improved to a point that supported better
                        > works programs, and Beagle came along with BeagleWorks. It
                        > was later bought by WordPerfect and renamed WordPerfect
                        > Works. Reviewers gave its word processing module the best
                        > grade, but it was buggy.
                        >
                        > Symantec released GreatWorks, with an especially good
                        > outliner for the program genre, and Claris released
                        > ClarisWorks, with the best-reviewed spreadsheet of the lot.
                        > As you know, Claris won.
                        >
                        > John R.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Matthew Wensley
                        Newsgroups from the Web? What will they think of next! Thanks. Amazing how you don t know something if you have never had to look for it. Matt ... Fact of the
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 11 8:25 AM
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                          Newsgroups from the Web? What will they think of next!

                          Thanks.

                          Amazing how you don't know something if you have never had to look
                          for it.

                          Matt

                          -----------------------
                          "Fact of the matter is, there is no hip world, there is no straight
                          world. There's a world, you see, which has people in it who believe
                          in a variety of different things. Everybody believes in something and
                          everybody, by virtue of the fact that they believe in something, use
                          that something to support their own existence."
                          -- Frank Zappa
                          (1940-1993), Musician


                          On 11-Jul-06, at 12:19 AM, John Rethorst wrote:

                          > You can access newsgroups from the web, at http://groups.google.com/
                        • Wynne Brown
                          Hi all, I m a (generally polite :)) new member and a longtime Apple/Mac user. I ve never used WordPerfect myself but have volunteered to help a writer friend
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 11 11:27 AM
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                            Hi all,

                            I'm a (generally polite :)) new member and a longtime
                            Apple/Mac user. I've never used WordPerfect myself but have
                            volunteered to help a writer friend who's recently come to Macs from
                            the Dark Side. All her old files are in Word Perfect on a CD, and all
                            she wants to do is move them to her new (but still PowerPC) iBook.
                            Once they're moved, she'll be using Appleworks to work on them.
                            Does she need to install WPmac, run it in Classic mode, then
                            open and save the files as RTF? Or is there an easier way?
                            She's not particularly computer-savvy, so if any of you have
                            suggestions for the simplest solution I can give her, I'd be really
                            appreciative! (I sent her to the FAQ, and she was overwhelmed ...)

                            cheers,

                            Wynne Brown
                          • Doug Auwarter
                            Wynne, You didn t say which version of WP/win nor Appleworks she uses, but I would think the built in Maclink extention in Appleworks will allow them to be
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 11 12:22 PM
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                              Wynne,
                              You didn't say which version of WP/win nor Appleworks she uses, but I
                              would think the built in Maclink extention in Appleworks will allow
                              them to be opened directly into Appleworks. If not, maybe it's worth
                              the investment to get a full version of Maclink and convert them that
                              way. It's very easy to use.
                              Best,
                              Doug

                              On Jul 11, 2006, at 1:27 PM, Wynne Brown wrote:

                              I'm a (generally polite :)) new member and a longtime
                              Apple/Mac user. I've never used WordPerfect myself but have
                              volunteered to help a writer friend who's recently come to Macs from
                              the Dark Side. All her old files are in Word Perfect on a CD, and all
                              she wants to do is move them to her new (but still PowerPC) iBook.
                              Once they're moved, she'll be using Appleworks to work on them.
                              Does she need to install WPmac, run it in Classic mode, then
                              open and save the files as RTF? Or is there an easier way?
                              She's not particularly computer-savvy, so if any of you have
                              suggestions for the simplest solution I can give her, I'd be really
                              appreciative! (I sent her to the FAQ, and she was overwhelmed ...)



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Wynne Brown
                              Many thanks, Doug! You provided the vital clue: The built-in version of MacLink didn t mention WordPerfect, which implies she d need to buy the full program.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 11 4:32 PM
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                                Many thanks, Doug! You provided the vital clue: The built-in version
                                of MacLink didn't mention WordPerfect, which implies she'd need to
                                buy the full program. To be sure, I Googled "maclink wordperfect,"
                                and it pulled up an Apple user discussion that mentioned an Open
                                Source app called AbiWord (from the Spanish "abierto," according to
                                Wikipedia -- very cute).
                                My friend was able to download it and is now happily opening and
                                saving all the WP files from her pre-Mac life -- and she thinks I'm
                                even more of an Apple genius than the ones at the store who pointed
                                her in the direction of this group.

                                Thanks again!

                                cheers,

                                Wynne



                                >Wynne,
                                >You didn't say which version of WP/win nor Appleworks she uses, but I
                                >would think the built in Maclink extention in Appleworks will allow
                                >them to be opened directly into Appleworks. If not, maybe it's worth
                                >the investment to get a full version of Maclink and convert them that
                                >way. It's very easy to use.
                                >Best,
                                >Doug
                                >
                                >On Jul 11, 2006, at 1:27 PM, Wynne Brown wrote:
                                >
                                >I'm a (generally polite :)) new member and a longtime
                                >Apple/Mac user. I've never used WordPerfect myself but have
                                >volunteered to help a writer friend who's recently come to Macs from
                                >the Dark Side. All her old files are in Word Perfect on a CD, and all
                                >she wants to do is move them to her new (but still PowerPC) iBook.
                                >Once they're moved, she'll be using Appleworks to work on them.
                                >Does she need to install WPmac, run it in Classic mode, then
                                >open and save the files as RTF? Or is there an easier way?
                                >She's not particularly computer-savvy, so if any of you have
                                >suggestions for the simplest solution I can give her, I'd be really
                                >appreciative! (I sent her to the FAQ, and she was overwhelmed ...)
                                >
                              • Rick Albright
                                ... What I remember most about Beagle Brothers was the series of add-on programs for Appleworks (the original Appleworks that ran on the Apple ][ and Apple
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 12 3:00 PM
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                                  > On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:56 AM, Don Zahniser wrote:
                                  >
                                  > An interesting note to me (a former Apple IIGS enthusiast), was that
                                  > most of the ClarisWorks team originated from StyleWare, which had been
                                  > working on GSWorks (later AppleWorks GS from Claris) and that Beagle
                                  > Bros ended up with the code to StyleWare's TopDraw and MultiScribe GS
                                  > (sold as BeagleDraw and BeagleWrite, respectively).
                                  >
                                  What I remember most about Beagle Brothers was the series of add-on
                                  programs for Appleworks (the original Appleworks that ran on the
                                  Apple ][ and Apple IIGS). These were some really nifty and creative
                                  patches that extended the functionality of the original program--
                                  report writers, macros, and a whole host of enhancements, some of
                                  which were quite powerful. I think it says a lot about how much the
                                  environment has changed--Appleworks was designed to be easy to patch
                                  to add functionality, as opposed to Microsoft's refusal to release
                                  the Windows APIs and possibly even to sabotage other programs. In the
                                  early 90s, I recall working on a project involving a contractor
                                  designing a system for storage and retrieval of engineering drawings--
                                  one of the first big forays into that area, just about when Windows
                                  3.1 came out--and even though it was a very large defense contractor,
                                  they had enormous problems getting Microsoft to give them the APIs to
                                  make their system work--and that was for a system that wasn't in
                                  competition with any Microsoft products (unlike Lotus or WordPerfect)!

                                  Thanks for awakening fond memories of the fun I had with Beagle's
                                  enhancements. I still have some of their decals around here
                                  somewhere . . .
                                  =========================================================
                                  "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual
                                  warfare."
                                  --James Madison, 1793

                                  Rick Albright
                                  logres@...
                                • Rick Albright
                                  Privacy advocates may want to keep in mind the fact that Google stores all queries to its search engine (the IP address of the computer and the search terms).
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 12 3:08 PM
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                                    Privacy advocates may want to keep in mind the fact that Google
                                    stores all queries to its search engine (the IP address of the
                                    computer and the search terms). I don't know if they keep track of
                                    usage of usenet groups or not. So far they apparently do not release
                                    detailed information (such as who asked for what information) to
                                    outside groups, but it is stored on their servers, and a few months
                                    ago the federal government attempted to obtain some of this
                                    information. (Google gave them a much more scaled down data extract
                                    instead.)

                                    Rick Albright

                                    On Jul 11, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Matthew Wensley wrote:

                                    > Newsgroups from the Web? What will they think of next!
                                    >
                                    > Thanks.
                                    >
                                    > Amazing how you don't know something if you have never had to look
                                    > for it.
                                    >
                                    > Matt
                                    >
                                    > -----------------------
                                    > "Fact of the matter is, there is no hip world, there is no straight
                                    > world. There's a world, you see, which has people in it who believe
                                    > in a variety of different things. Everybody believes in something and
                                    > everybody, by virtue of the fact that they believe in something, use
                                    > that something to support their own existence."
                                    > -- Frank Zappa
                                    > (1940-1993), Musician
                                    >
                                    > On 11-Jul-06, at 12:19 AM, John Rethorst wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > You can access newsgroups from the web, at http://groups.google.com/
                                    >
                                    >

                                    =========================================================
                                    "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual
                                    warfare."
                                    --James Madison, 1793

                                    Rick Albright
                                    logres@...
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