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Re: [wpmac] vanishing document

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  • J Busch
    I have had this happen also. I have attributed it to ineffecient memory handeling by Classic. When I increased the size of memory allocated to WP the problem
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 16, 2006
      I have had this happen also. I have attributed it to ineffecient memory handeling by Classic. When I increased the size of memory allocated to WP the problem happens less often. Quiting WP and restarting classic is a quick fix, but if you are trying to open a large document and it is greying out when opening it you will need to increase the memory available to WP.

      -Jonathan

      Steve Kane <skane@...> wrote:
      On Mar 14, 2006, at 5:28 PM, ian mc mahan wrote:

      > To be specific, when I doubleclick on a filename, no window opens on
      > the screen. WP is running, but most of the toolbar options are grayed
      > out. I just discovered that I can get the file to open by using
      > File Open, but doubleclicking doesn't work. Any ideas what's going on?


      I have also noticed this. When it occurs I quit WP and any other
      Classic apps and restart the Classic environment:

      System Preferences > Classic > Start/Stop > Restart

      This usually fixes it for quite a while.


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    • Randy B. Singer
      ... I forget the exact number, but unfortunately the Classic environment is limited to some arbitrary memory partition under OS X that is not dynamically
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 16, 2006
        J Busch said:

        >I have had this happen also. I have attributed it to ineffecient memory
        >handeling by Classic. When I increased the size of memory allocated to WP
        >the problem happens less often. Quiting WP and restarting classic is a
        >quick fix, but if you are trying to open a large document and it is
        >greying out when opening it you will need to increase the memory available
        >to WP.


        I forget the exact number, but unfortunately the Classic environment is
        limited to some arbitrary memory partition under OS X that is not
        dynamically scaled (like everything else in OS X) and which is not
        otherwise adjustable.

        When I read the tech document about that I remember being surprised that
        Classic (and everything running in it) was limited to such a small amount
        of RAM.





        Randy B. Singer
        Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

        Routine OS X Maintenance and Generic Troubleshooting
        http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
      • John Rethorst
        In Tiger you can adjust memory available to Classic. The default size of the temporary memory area is about 128 MB (less on computers with less than 128 MB of
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 16, 2006
          In Tiger you can adjust memory available to Classic.

          "The default size of the temporary memory area is about
          128 MB (less on computers with less than 128 MB of RAM).
          Some applications may need more than the default amount
          of temporary memory."

          To adjust Classic memory on Tiger, option-click
          "Memory/Versions" in the Classic prefpane of System
          Preferences, and then "Adjust Memory".

          See: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh1834.html

          For any flavor of OSX, these are interesting:

          "Classic brings the benefit of Mac OS X's virtual memory
          underpinnings to legacy applications. Each Mac OS 9.x
          application can be configured for a much larger memory
          partition than was possible previously."

          See: http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=169576&seqNum=11&rl=1

          and:

          "To take advantage of the new Mac OS X memory
          architecture, set these values higher than you would in
          older versions of the Mac OS."

          See: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=30485&seqNum=2&rl=1

          These last two quotes suggest that WP (which can run in
          800K) will have no problem getting enough memory in OSX.

          John R.
        • Randy B. Singer
          ... Your quote of the Apple tech note was incomplete, and therefore ... If you read this carefully, it sounds to me like what I orginally said, that there is a
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 16, 2006
            John Rethorst said:

            >>In Tiger you can adjust memory available to Classic.

            >"The default size of the temporary memory area is about
            >128 MB (less on computers with less than 128 MB of RAM).
            > Some applications may need more than the default amount
            >of temporary memory."

            Your quote of the Apple tech note was incomplete, and therefore
            misleading:

            >Some Mac OS 9 applications make use of "temporary memory" on your hard
            >disk in order to work faster. When you start the Classic environment, Mac
            >OS X sets aside a temporary memory area for the use of Mac OS 9
            >applications. The default size of the temporary memory area is about 128
            >MB (less on computers with less than 128 MB of RAM). Some applications may
            >need more than the default amount of temporary memory.
            >
            >On the other hand, increasing the size of temporary memory decreases the
            >amount of memory that's available for applications. Some Mac OS 9
            >applications work best if the temporary memory size is reduced to free up
            >more memory for the application.
            >
            >If you know that your application needs more than the default amount of
            >temporary memory, or more application memory, you can change the temporary
            >memory size in Classic preferences.

            If you read this carefully, it sounds to me like what I orginally said,
            that there is a fixed memory partition available to Classic. You can't
            actually "adjust the memory available to Classic" as you put it. You can
            juggle temporary memory against application memory, but since the total
            amount is fixed, increasing one decreases the other. Adjust either too
            big, making the other too small, and if you work too long in one
            application in Classic eventually nasty things will happen. In fact,
            since the Classic memory partition is fixed, no matter what you do nasty
            things will happen if you work too long in an application in Classic that
            fills up the available memory. (Which is also why it was "bombs away"
            when you used to surf the Web too long in any Web browser under OS 9. OS
            9 had terrible memory management. I don't believe that OS 9's memory
            management is much better under OS X; in fact in some ways it may be
            worse.)

            I'm sorry I don't have the original developer note at my fingertips to
            cite on this, but I strongly suspect that this is the source of the
            problems that some folks have experienced using WP in Classic. The good
            news is, that if this is indeed the problem, it can be avoided by
            occasionally and routinely saving your work, quitting WP and Classic, and
            then relaunching both.



            Randy B. Singer
            Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

            Routine OS X Maintenance and Generic Troubleshooting
            http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
          • Thomas J. Rostafinski, Ph.D.
            Steve and John, thank you for the suggestions. Unfortunately, neither restarting Classic nor rebuilding the OS9 desktop file nor repairing OS9 permissions has
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 17, 2006
              Steve and John, thank you for the suggestions. Unfortunately, neither
              restarting Classic nor rebuilding the OS9 desktop file nor repairing OS9
              permissions has fixed the problem. I just restarted Classic and
              increased WP's memory to 15MB minimum, 50MB preferred. The problem
              persists: WP files do not open when opened in the (OSX) Finder. Do I
              need still more memory??? This is one problem I have just been living
              with, though it sure would be nice to have a solution. Tom
            • Geoff Gilbert
              Thomas Can I clarify some of the details? 1) Assuming Classic is running (from startup?), but WP is not, if you double click on a file that has a WP Icon in
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 17, 2006
                Thomas

                Can I clarify some of the details?
                1) Assuming Classic is running (from startup?), but WP is not, if you
                double click on a file that has a WP Icon in the OSX Finder, does WP
                start up, even if the file does not open in WP?
                2) Does the file still fail to open if WP is already running when you
                double click on the file?
                3) If you startup WP directly, does a blank file appear?
                4) Do you have RCDefaultApp? It's a PrefPane that allows you to
                allocate a file type to a particular programme. It might help the
                Finder to remember WP exists.

                Geoff

                >Steve and John, thank you for the suggestions. Unfortunately, neither
                >restarting Classic nor rebuilding the OS9 desktop file nor repairing OS9
                >permissions has fixed the problem. I just restarted Classic and
                >increased WP's memory to 15MB minimum, 50MB preferred. The problem
                >persists: WP files do not open when opened in the (OSX) Finder. Do I
                >need still more memory??? This is one problem I have just been living
                >with, though it sure would be nice to have a solution. Tom
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • John Rethorst
                ... I m sure that s not it. Have you quit WP and tossed the Preferences file? Quit and dragged the Library out to the desktop? (WP will build a new one, and
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 19, 2006
                  --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas J. Rostafinski, Ph.D." <TJRostaf@...>
                  wrote:

                  > Do I need still more memory???

                  I'm sure that's not it. Have you quit WP and tossed the Preferences
                  file? Quit and dragged the Library out to the desktop? (WP will
                  build a new one, and you can copy styles, macros etc. into it. Do
                  not copy macros entitled "OnStartup" and "OnOpenDocument" in
                  case those have something to do with this.) Have you reinstalled
                  WP? The OS? Any particular login items that you could turn off?

                  John R.
                • Bob Stern
                  ... I would try reinstalling Classic (not OS X). -- Bob Stern
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 19, 2006
                    >John Rethorst wrote:
                    >
                    >Have you reinstalled WP? The OS? Any particular login items that you
                    >could turn off?

                    I would try reinstalling Classic (not OS X).
                    --

                    Bob Stern
                  • John Rethorst
                    There s a thread about this on comp.sys.mac.apps right now: classic apps are a bit shy coming in... indicating that the problem is not specific to WP, but
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 25, 2006
                      There's a thread about this on comp.sys.mac.apps right now:
                      "classic apps are a bit shy coming in..." indicating that the problem
                      is not specific to WP, but happens to some people with any Classic
                      app. One poster reported that Repairing OS 9 Permissions helped some.

                      John R.
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