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Re: vanishing document

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  • John Rethorst
    ... You could also try repairing Classic permissions using Disk Utility. ... John R.
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 15, 2006
      --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kane <skane@...> wrote:

      > Have you tried rebuilding Classic's desktop file?:
      >
      > System Preferences > Classic > Advanced > Rebuild Desktop

      You could also try repairing Classic permissions using Disk
      Utility.

      I've heard very little about this. Help Viewer only says:

      > You can also repair permissions for Mac OS 9 if you are having
      > problems with using applications in the Classic environment.
      > Select the disk and choose File > Fix OS 9 Permissions.

      John R.
    • J Busch
      I have had this happen also. I have attributed it to ineffecient memory handeling by Classic. When I increased the size of memory allocated to WP the problem
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 16, 2006
        I have had this happen also. I have attributed it to ineffecient memory handeling by Classic. When I increased the size of memory allocated to WP the problem happens less often. Quiting WP and restarting classic is a quick fix, but if you are trying to open a large document and it is greying out when opening it you will need to increase the memory available to WP.

        -Jonathan

        Steve Kane <skane@...> wrote:
        On Mar 14, 2006, at 5:28 PM, ian mc mahan wrote:

        > To be specific, when I doubleclick on a filename, no window opens on
        > the screen. WP is running, but most of the toolbar options are grayed
        > out. I just discovered that I can get the file to open by using
        > File Open, but doubleclicking doesn't work. Any ideas what's going on?


        I have also noticed this. When it occurs I quit WP and any other
        Classic apps and restart the Classic environment:

        System Preferences > Classic > Start/Stop > Restart

        This usually fixes it for quite a while.


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      • Randy B. Singer
        ... I forget the exact number, but unfortunately the Classic environment is limited to some arbitrary memory partition under OS X that is not dynamically
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 16, 2006
          J Busch said:

          >I have had this happen also. I have attributed it to ineffecient memory
          >handeling by Classic. When I increased the size of memory allocated to WP
          >the problem happens less often. Quiting WP and restarting classic is a
          >quick fix, but if you are trying to open a large document and it is
          >greying out when opening it you will need to increase the memory available
          >to WP.


          I forget the exact number, but unfortunately the Classic environment is
          limited to some arbitrary memory partition under OS X that is not
          dynamically scaled (like everything else in OS X) and which is not
          otherwise adjustable.

          When I read the tech document about that I remember being surprised that
          Classic (and everything running in it) was limited to such a small amount
          of RAM.





          Randy B. Singer
          Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

          Routine OS X Maintenance and Generic Troubleshooting
          http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
        • John Rethorst
          In Tiger you can adjust memory available to Classic. The default size of the temporary memory area is about 128 MB (less on computers with less than 128 MB of
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 16, 2006
            In Tiger you can adjust memory available to Classic.

            "The default size of the temporary memory area is about
            128 MB (less on computers with less than 128 MB of RAM).
            Some applications may need more than the default amount
            of temporary memory."

            To adjust Classic memory on Tiger, option-click
            "Memory/Versions" in the Classic prefpane of System
            Preferences, and then "Adjust Memory".

            See: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh1834.html

            For any flavor of OSX, these are interesting:

            "Classic brings the benefit of Mac OS X's virtual memory
            underpinnings to legacy applications. Each Mac OS 9.x
            application can be configured for a much larger memory
            partition than was possible previously."

            See: http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=169576&seqNum=11&rl=1

            and:

            "To take advantage of the new Mac OS X memory
            architecture, set these values higher than you would in
            older versions of the Mac OS."

            See: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=30485&seqNum=2&rl=1

            These last two quotes suggest that WP (which can run in
            800K) will have no problem getting enough memory in OSX.

            John R.
          • Randy B. Singer
            ... Your quote of the Apple tech note was incomplete, and therefore ... If you read this carefully, it sounds to me like what I orginally said, that there is a
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 16, 2006
              John Rethorst said:

              >>In Tiger you can adjust memory available to Classic.

              >"The default size of the temporary memory area is about
              >128 MB (less on computers with less than 128 MB of RAM).
              > Some applications may need more than the default amount
              >of temporary memory."

              Your quote of the Apple tech note was incomplete, and therefore
              misleading:

              >Some Mac OS 9 applications make use of "temporary memory" on your hard
              >disk in order to work faster. When you start the Classic environment, Mac
              >OS X sets aside a temporary memory area for the use of Mac OS 9
              >applications. The default size of the temporary memory area is about 128
              >MB (less on computers with less than 128 MB of RAM). Some applications may
              >need more than the default amount of temporary memory.
              >
              >On the other hand, increasing the size of temporary memory decreases the
              >amount of memory that's available for applications. Some Mac OS 9
              >applications work best if the temporary memory size is reduced to free up
              >more memory for the application.
              >
              >If you know that your application needs more than the default amount of
              >temporary memory, or more application memory, you can change the temporary
              >memory size in Classic preferences.

              If you read this carefully, it sounds to me like what I orginally said,
              that there is a fixed memory partition available to Classic. You can't
              actually "adjust the memory available to Classic" as you put it. You can
              juggle temporary memory against application memory, but since the total
              amount is fixed, increasing one decreases the other. Adjust either too
              big, making the other too small, and if you work too long in one
              application in Classic eventually nasty things will happen. In fact,
              since the Classic memory partition is fixed, no matter what you do nasty
              things will happen if you work too long in an application in Classic that
              fills up the available memory. (Which is also why it was "bombs away"
              when you used to surf the Web too long in any Web browser under OS 9. OS
              9 had terrible memory management. I don't believe that OS 9's memory
              management is much better under OS X; in fact in some ways it may be
              worse.)

              I'm sorry I don't have the original developer note at my fingertips to
              cite on this, but I strongly suspect that this is the source of the
              problems that some folks have experienced using WP in Classic. The good
              news is, that if this is indeed the problem, it can be avoided by
              occasionally and routinely saving your work, quitting WP and Classic, and
              then relaunching both.



              Randy B. Singer
              Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

              Routine OS X Maintenance and Generic Troubleshooting
              http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
            • Thomas J. Rostafinski, Ph.D.
              Steve and John, thank you for the suggestions. Unfortunately, neither restarting Classic nor rebuilding the OS9 desktop file nor repairing OS9 permissions has
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 17, 2006
                Steve and John, thank you for the suggestions. Unfortunately, neither
                restarting Classic nor rebuilding the OS9 desktop file nor repairing OS9
                permissions has fixed the problem. I just restarted Classic and
                increased WP's memory to 15MB minimum, 50MB preferred. The problem
                persists: WP files do not open when opened in the (OSX) Finder. Do I
                need still more memory??? This is one problem I have just been living
                with, though it sure would be nice to have a solution. Tom
              • Geoff Gilbert
                Thomas Can I clarify some of the details? 1) Assuming Classic is running (from startup?), but WP is not, if you double click on a file that has a WP Icon in
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 17, 2006
                  Thomas

                  Can I clarify some of the details?
                  1) Assuming Classic is running (from startup?), but WP is not, if you
                  double click on a file that has a WP Icon in the OSX Finder, does WP
                  start up, even if the file does not open in WP?
                  2) Does the file still fail to open if WP is already running when you
                  double click on the file?
                  3) If you startup WP directly, does a blank file appear?
                  4) Do you have RCDefaultApp? It's a PrefPane that allows you to
                  allocate a file type to a particular programme. It might help the
                  Finder to remember WP exists.

                  Geoff

                  >Steve and John, thank you for the suggestions. Unfortunately, neither
                  >restarting Classic nor rebuilding the OS9 desktop file nor repairing OS9
                  >permissions has fixed the problem. I just restarted Classic and
                  >increased WP's memory to 15MB minimum, 50MB preferred. The problem
                  >persists: WP files do not open when opened in the (OSX) Finder. Do I
                  >need still more memory??? This is one problem I have just been living
                  >with, though it sure would be nice to have a solution. Tom
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • John Rethorst
                  ... I m sure that s not it. Have you quit WP and tossed the Preferences file? Quit and dragged the Library out to the desktop? (WP will build a new one, and
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 19, 2006
                    --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas J. Rostafinski, Ph.D." <TJRostaf@...>
                    wrote:

                    > Do I need still more memory???

                    I'm sure that's not it. Have you quit WP and tossed the Preferences
                    file? Quit and dragged the Library out to the desktop? (WP will
                    build a new one, and you can copy styles, macros etc. into it. Do
                    not copy macros entitled "OnStartup" and "OnOpenDocument" in
                    case those have something to do with this.) Have you reinstalled
                    WP? The OS? Any particular login items that you could turn off?

                    John R.
                  • Bob Stern
                    ... I would try reinstalling Classic (not OS X). -- Bob Stern
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 19, 2006
                      >John Rethorst wrote:
                      >
                      >Have you reinstalled WP? The OS? Any particular login items that you
                      >could turn off?

                      I would try reinstalling Classic (not OS X).
                      --

                      Bob Stern
                    • John Rethorst
                      There s a thread about this on comp.sys.mac.apps right now: classic apps are a bit shy coming in... indicating that the problem is not specific to WP, but
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 25, 2006
                        There's a thread about this on comp.sys.mac.apps right now:
                        "classic apps are a bit shy coming in..." indicating that the problem
                        is not specific to WP, but happens to some people with any Classic
                        app. One poster reported that Repairing OS 9 Permissions helped some.

                        John R.
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