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Apple Shipping Intel Chips Today

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  • John Rethorst
    By Rob Pegoraro Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, January 10, 2006; 5:15 PM SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 10 -- Apple chief executive Steve Jobs loves his surprises,
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
      By Rob Pegoraro
      Washington Post Staff Writer
      Tuesday, January 10, 2006; 5:15 PM

      SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 10 -- Apple chief executive Steve Jobs
      loves his surprises, and his keynote opening the annual
      Macworld Expo trade show had a big one: The company is
      shipping its first machines with an Intel processor Tuesday
      -- six months earlier than it had predicted when it
      announced this switch last June.

      The new iMac desktops he unveiled on stage at the Moscone
      Center here look like the iMac he introduced last year --
      they offer the same basic design and sell at the same
      prices ($1,299 for a model with a 17-inch screen, $1,699
      for a 20-incher), but instead of a G5 PowerPC processor,
      each has an Intel Core Duo processor. Jobs said benchmark
      testing showed these machines to be two to three times
      faster than their predecessors.

      The iMacs will be joined in February by the MacBook Pro, an
      Intel-based laptop running on the same Core Duo chip. Jobs
      said this model was even faster than the PowerBook it will
      replace -- four to five times as fast, he said. It will
      sell for $1,999 and $2,499.

      Both the new iMac and the MacBook Pro will run new
      "universal" versions of Apple's operating system and
      applications that can work on either PowerPC or Intel
      chips.

      The most prominent part of that set of software will be
      iLife '06, also announced today. This suite of multimedia
      programs includes iTunes, the iPhoto picture-organizer and
      editor, the iMovie video editor, the iDVD home-movie
      creator, the Garage Band music-production application and a
      new program, iWeb.

      Many of the new features in these programs are designed to
      help people make and share their own content. For example,
      iPhoto '06's "photocasting" feature lets users share their
      favorite pictures online, using the same Really Simple
      Syndication software many Web sites employ to get updates
      to readers. IMovie '06 can create video podcasts, and
      Garage Band can make audio podcasts. The iWeb program lets
      users easily assemble all these creations in Web sites that
      can be hosted on Apple's $100/year .Mac online service.

      Jobs showed off that last feature by recording, live on
      stage, a fake podcast called "Super Secret Apple Rumors."
      ("The next iPod is gonna be huge -- an eight-pounder with a
      10-inch screen!" he said; audience members, many of who
      spent far too much time over the past few days visiting
      Apple rumor sites to get a hint about Macworld news,
      laughed out loud at the parody.) Many of those rumor sites
      had predicted such developments as full-length movies being
      sold at the iTunes store, new iPod models or an updated Mac
      mini that could serve as a media-center computer in living
      rooms, but they struck out on those guesses.

      Jobs said that Apple will introduce Intel versions of its
      other computers throughout the year, with this transition
      concluding by the end of 2006. That will put developers of
      Mac software under tight deadlines to finish converting
      their programs into so-called universal releases; until
      that happens, these older programs need the help of Apple
      translation software called Rosetta.

      Jobs showed how that worked by running Microsoft Word and
      Adobe Photoshop on stage on a new Intel-based iMac; he
      warned that Photoshop would perform a little too slowly for
      professional use, but home users would probably be
      satisfied with the results.

      Roz Ho, the manager of Microsoft's Mac business unit,
      joined him to report on Microsoft's plans for updates to
      Office -- which, as part of a new agreement with Apple,
      will now continue for at least the next five years.
      Jobs also disclosed unexpectedly high sales figures for
      Apple's holiday sales quarter: He said the company sold 14
      million iPods and had $5.7 billion in sales overall for
      those three months -- $1 billion of which occurred in its
      own 135 stores. Jobs also said that the iTunes Music Store
      has now sold 850 million songs and holds an 83 percent
      share of the paid-song-downloads market.

      He did not reveal any new figures for Apple's market share
      in computers, although some industry analysts expect it to
      increase as security concerns continue to vex Windows
      users.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/10/
      AR2006011001069.html
    • Randall C. Wilson
      Does anyone know, will the new intel machines run the classic environment? -- /S/ Randall mailto:rwilson@iowaclu.org Alternate: mailto:gryndal@mchsi.com
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
        Does anyone know, will the new intel machines run the classic environment?
        --
        /S/ Randall

        mailto:rwilson@...

        Alternate: mailto:gryndal@...
      • Richard Fallstrom
        ... Randall: If I recall from the developer news correctly, they won t. This is mainly due to the aspect that OS9 was written specifically for the PowerPC
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
          Randall C. Wilson wrote:

          > Does anyone know, will the new intel machines run the classic
          > environment?
          > --
          > /S/ Randall
          >
          > mailto:rwilson@...
          >
          > Alternate: mailto:gryndal@...
          >
          >
          Randall:

          If I recall from the developer news correctly, they won't. This is
          mainly due to the aspect that OS9 was written specifically for the
          PowerPC architecture and Rosetta will not convert easily a whole OS.

          Rick
        • David Derbes
          ... My guess is yes, but it s only a guess. Steve Jobs showed old Power PC apps running under Rosetta at the keynote address yesterday. Classic is just another
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
            On Jan 11, 2006, at 9:27 AM, Randall C. Wilson wrote:

            > Does anyone know, will the new intel machines run the classic
            > environment?

            My guess is yes, but it's only a guess.

            Steve Jobs showed old Power PC apps running under Rosetta at the
            keynote address yesterday.
            Classic is just another program. I don't see why it wouldn't run
            under Rosetta.

            That said, the day is coming when Rosetta won't be around. Maybe 5
            years from now, maybe more.
            But...

            David Derbes

            > --
            > /S/ Randall
            >
            > mailto:rwilson@...
            >
            > Alternate: mailto:gryndal@...
            >
            >
            >
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > Visit your group "wordperfectmac" on the web.
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > wordperfectmac-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John Rethorst
            ... As I understand it, not as shipped, but third-party emulators are in development. The Intel Macs run between three and five times faster than the PPC
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
              --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Randall C. Wilson" <rwilson@i...> wrote:

              > Does anyone know, will the new intel machines run the classic
              > environment?

              As I understand it, not as shipped, but third-party emulators are in
              development. The Intel Macs run between three and five times
              faster than the PPC models, and WP is one of the fastest programs
              I run under current emulation in Tiger, so speed shouldn't be a
              problem.

              John R.
            • Geoff Gilbert
              ... John I am no technical expert, but I thought Classic would not run on Intel chips because it presently relies on something in the PowerPC chip on which OS9
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
                >--- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, "Randall C. Wilson"
                ><rwilson@i...> wrote:
                >
                >> Does anyone know, will the new intel machines run the classic
                >> environment?
                >
                >As I understand it, not as shipped, but third-party emulators are in
                >development. The Intel Macs run between three and five times
                >faster than the PPC models, and WP is one of the fastest programs
                >I run under current emulation in Tiger, so speed shouldn't be a
                >problem.
                >
                >John R.
                >
                John

                I am no technical expert, but I thought Classic would not run on
                Intel chips because it presently relies on something in the PowerPC
                chip on which OS9 runs happily natively. Thus Classic is an emulator
                under OSX that will now require another emulator so that the Intel
                chip is 'hidden from view' and Classic believes there is a PowerPC
                chip in the machine. Emulation upon emulation. That's got to slow
                things down.

                However, I may have wholly misconstrued Classic on the PowerPC chip.

                Geoff
              • Smokey Ardisson
                ... I think it is more of a limitation of what Rosetta will translate on the fly (Rosetta won t translate calls using embedded PPC Java virtual machines, and a
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
                  --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Gilbert <Geoff@e...> wrote:

                  > I am no technical expert, but I thought Classic would not run on
                  > Intel chips because it presently relies on something in the PowerPC
                  > chip on which OS9 runs happily natively. Thus Classic is an emulator
                  > under OSX that will now require another emulator so that the Intel
                  > chip is 'hidden from view' and Classic believes there is a PowerPC
                  > chip in the machine. Emulation upon emulation. That's got to slow
                  > things down.
                  >
                  > However, I may have wholly misconstrued Classic on the PowerPC chip.

                  I think it is more of a limitation of what Rosetta will translate on the fly (Rosetta won't translate calls using embedded PPC Java virtual machines, and a list of other things, that have nothing to do with Classic other than being perhaps the same category of thing) than a "special need" that Classic has for something on a PPC chip.

                  Classic is not an emulator, though...it's Mac OS 9.x running on a PPC chip (which is why it is blazing-fast in comparison to Mac OS X, and why it has to "boot"), with some "shims" that support its integration with Mac OS X and which let Mac OS X know what to run in Classic and to deal with Mac OS X's more limited hardware access model (an app can no longer talk directly to a hardware port, for instance, under Mac OS X).

                  IANA technical expert, either, so take this with whatever weight you feel it deserves ;)

                  Smokey
                • Phillip Jones, C.E.T.
                  I was just reading something in Mac Addict Magazine that might allow OS9 to run on Intel Machine. Now whether it eventual will??? Its called VT
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
                    I was just reading something in Mac Addict Magazine that "might" allow
                    OS9 to run on Intel Machine. Now whether it eventual will??? Its
                    called VT Virtualization Technology, or Vanderpool Technology.

                    What it can do is allow Hardware emulation. That is, to boot off many
                    different Operating system. a Computer using the technology can boot
                    directly into OSX, Windows XP, UNIX, Linux ; and run through hardware as
                    opposed to software emulation.

                    Now whether OS9 could be made to work on this VT Chip is another matter.
                    Its in the Feb 2006 issue of Mac Addict Magazine.

                    Smokey Ardisson wrote:
                    > --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Gilbert <Geoff@e...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > I am no technical expert, but I thought Classic would not run on
                    > > Intel chips because it presently relies on something in the PowerPC
                    > > chip on which OS9 runs happily natively. Thus Classic is an emulator
                    > > under OSX that will now require another emulator so that the Intel
                    > > chip is 'hidden from view' and Classic believes there is a PowerPC
                    > > chip in the machine. Emulation upon emulation. That's got to slow
                    > > things down.
                  • Randy B. Singer
                    ... Classic is not at all an emulator. See:
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 13, 2006
                      Geoff Gilbert said:

                      >I am no technical expert, but I thought Classic would not run on
                      >Intel chips because it presently relies on something in the PowerPC
                      >chip on which OS9 runs happily natively. Thus Classic is an emulator
                      >under OSX that will now require another emulator so that the Intel
                      >chip is 'hidden from view' and Classic believes there is a PowerPC
                      >chip in the machine. Emulation upon emulation. That's got to slow
                      >things down.


                      Classic is not at all an emulator.

                      See:

                      <http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/SystemOverview/
                      InstallIntegrate/chapter_11_section_5.html>

                      or

                      <http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/OSX_Technology_
                      Overview/index.html>

                      A direct link isn't possible. This is how you navigate to the "Classic
                      Environment" section:

                      Introduction to Mac OS X Technology Overview --> scroll down to:
                      Organization of This Document --> Mac OS X Architectural Overview --> A
                      Layered Look at the Mac OS X Architecture --> next page -->
                      Mac OS X Runtime Architecture --> scroll down to: The Classic Environment


                      With respect to Classic running on MacTel machines, I asked my Apple
                      contact, at Macworld Expo, and it does not, and Apple isn't working on it.

                      However, I'm told that there is open source software that, with some
                      updating, will probably be able to do it. So, in time, we may be able to
                      run Classic software on MacTel machines.

                      http://www.macehq.org/



                      Randy B. Singer
                      Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

                      Routine OS X Maintenance and Generic Troubleshooting
                      http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
                    • Geoff Gilbert
                      Randy Thanks. As FE Smith QC (one day to be Lord Birkenhead) once replied to a judge who informed Smith that after his disquisition he was none the wiser, No,
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 13, 2006
                        Randy

                        Thanks. As FE Smith QC (one day to be Lord Birkenhead) once replied
                        to a judge who informed Smith that after his disquisition he was none
                        the wiser, "No, m'lud, but you are much better informed".

                        If it's a hardware abstraction layer that would explain why the
                        change in chip technology really messes up running Classic.

                        Geoff

                        >Geoff Gilbert said:
                        >
                        >>I am no technical expert, but I thought Classic would not run on
                        >>Intel chips because it presently relies on something in the PowerPC
                        >>chip on which OS9 runs happily natively. Thus Classic is an emulator
                        >>under OSX that will now require another emulator so that the Intel
                        >>chip is 'hidden from view' and Classic believes there is a PowerPC
                        >>chip in the machine. Emulation upon emulation. That's got to slow
                        >>things down.
                        >
                        >
                        >Classic is not at all an emulator.
                        >
                        >See:
                        >
                        ><http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/SystemOverview/
                        >InstallIntegrate/chapter_11_section_5.html>
                        >
                        >or
                        >
                        ><http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/OSX_Technology_
                        >Overview/index.html>
                        >
                        >A direct link isn't possible. This is how you navigate to the "Classic
                        >Environment" section:
                        >
                        >Introduction to Mac OS X Technology Overview --> scroll down to:
                        >Organization of This Document --> Mac OS X Architectural Overview --> A
                        >Layered Look at the Mac OS X Architecture --> next page -->
                        >Mac OS X Runtime Architecture --> scroll down to: The Classic Environment
                        >
                        >
                        >With respect to Classic running on MacTel machines, I asked my Apple
                        >contact, at Macworld Expo, and it does not, and Apple isn't working on it.
                        >
                        >However, I'm told that there is open source software that, with some
                        >updating, will probably be able to do it. So, in time, we may be able to
                        >run Classic software on MacTel machines.
                        >
                        >http://www.macehq.org/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Randy B. Singer
                        >Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)
                        >
                        >Routine OS X Maintenance and Generic Troubleshooting
                        >http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Harald Sundt
                        Each new iMac Core Duo appears to be shipping with Mac OS X 10.4.4 for Intel build 8G1165, which does not include support for the Mac OS 9 Classic
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 14, 2006
                          "Each new iMac Core Duo appears to be shipping with Mac OS X 10.4.4
                          for Intel build 8G1165, which does not include support for the Mac OS
                          9 Classic environment. "

                          http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1467
                        • John Rethorst
                          ... I ve heard this as well. John R.
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 14, 2006
                            --- In wordperfectmac@yahoogroups.com, Randy B. Singer <randy@m...> wrote:
                            >
                            > However, I'm told that there is open source software that, with some
                            > updating, will probably be able to do it. So, in time, we may be able to
                            > run Classic software on MacTel machines.

                            I've heard this as well.

                            John R.
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