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WP-L-Digest 2004/11/19 #950

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  • jrethorst@post.com
    Message Number: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:11:35 -0500 From: Aron S. Spencer
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 21, 2004
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      Message Number: 1
      Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:11:35 -0500
      From: Aron S. Spencer <aron [email address protected]Subject: digest
      test...


      Aron S. Spencer
      Elizabeth, NJ 07202


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 2
      Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:13:06 -0500
      From: Matthew Cope <cope [email address protected]net>
      Subject: Re: digest test...

      On 11/15/04 3:11 PM, "Aron S. Spencer" <aron [email address
      protected]wrote:

      >
      > Aron S. Spencer
      > Elizabeth, NJ 07202
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ____
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!
      >
      >
      >

      Dunno what this means, but I received it.



      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 3
      Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:28:25 -0800
      From: Bert Shure <bert [email address protected]Subject: Re: digest
      test...

      hi aron:

      is there a way for me to access archives of the list?

      thanks,

      bert

      Aron S.Spencer wrote:

      >
      > Aron S. Spencer
      > Elizabeth, NJ 07202
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ____
      >
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!
      >
      >
      >

      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 4
      Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:54:09 -0500
      From: "Phillip Jones, C.E.T." <pjones1 [email address
      protected]Subject: Re: digest test...

      As did I.

      Matthew Cope wrote:
      > On 11/15/04 3:11 PM, "Aron S. Spencer" <aron [email address
      protected]wrote:
      >
      >
      >>Aron S. Spencer
      >>Elizabeth, NJ 07202
      >>
      >>______________________________________________________________________
      ______
      >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      >> <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > Dunno what this means, but I received it.
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ____
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET,
      Sterling
      616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045,
      FAX:276-632-0868
      Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |pjones [email address
      protected]ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---

      If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

      mailto:pjones [email address
      protected]http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
      <http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
      <http://vpea.exis.net>

      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 5
      Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:09:32 -0500
      From: David Lesher <lesher [email address protected]Subject: Re:
      Conversions & Styles

      >Does Command A, Command B not remove all bold-ing?
      >
      >Geoff
      >
      >>So I used Mac-Link+ to convert a Mac WORD 2K file to 3.5 and got a
      mess.
      >>
      >>Maclink built a bunch of STYLE entries that were convinced that
      >>bold was the default, and then in some places put in 'IGNORE BOLD'
      >>exceptions.
      >>
      >>I coulf find no way of creating my own IGNORE BOLD tags, and
      >>highlighting text and unchecking the FONT BOLD tag changed nothing.
      >>
      >>Is the only answer finding & deleting all those bogus styles?



      I didn't want to delete ALL the bolding in the entire doc.... but
      even so, I have to doubt it would work.

      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 6
      Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:36:00 +0000
      From: Geoff Gilbert <geoff [email address protected]uk>
      Subject: Re: Conversions & Styles

      David

      Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the conversion had added bold
      throughout where none had been before. I have had the same experience
      (part of the file, though, not all of it). I think that has something
      to do with the fact that WP uses character styles whereas Word
      focuses on the paragraph style.

      Geoff
      >>Does Command A, Command B not remove all bold-ing?
      >>
      >>Geoff
      >>
      >>>So I used Mac-Link+ to convert a Mac WORD 2K file to 3.5 and got a
      mess.
      >>>
      >>>Maclink built a bunch of STYLE entries that were convinced that
      >>>bold was the default, and then in some places put in 'IGNORE BOLD'
      >>>exceptions.
      >>>
      >>>I coulf find no way of creating my own IGNORE BOLD tags, and
      >>>highlighting text and unchecking the FONT BOLD tag changed nothing.
      >>>
      >>>Is the only answer finding & deleting all those bogus styles?
      >
      >
      >
      >I didn't want to delete ALL the bolding in the entire doc.... but
      >even so, I have to doubt it would work.
      >_______________________________________________________________________
      _____
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 7
      Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:57:17 -0500
      From: David Lesher <lesher [email address protected]Subject: Re:
      Conversions & Styles

      At 6:36 +0000 2004:11:16, Geoff Gilbert wrote:
      >David
      >
      >Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the conversion had added bold
      >throughout where none had been before. I have had the same
      >experience (part of the file, though, not all of it). I think that
      >has something to do with the fact that WP uses character styles
      >whereas Word focuses on the paragraph style.


      There were bolded titles, etc in the first third.

      Then it bolded EVERYTHING.... and attempts to unbold same failed. I
      do think if I'd zapped all the styles I could have fixed it, but what
      a PITA....


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 8
      Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:16:06 +0000
      From: Geoff Gilbert <geoff [email address protected]uk>
      Subject: Re: Conversions & Styles

      David

      I think the problem arises because when writing in Word, the author
      turned on a new paragraph style without turning off the first one.
      Thus, Maclink plus simply applies both. WP expects styles to start
      and finish whereas Word applies a new style once it is applied. Two
      fundamentally different approaches to formatting text.

      Geoff

      >At 6:36 +0000 2004:11:16, Geoff Gilbert wrote:
      >>David
      >>
      >>Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the conversion had added bold
      >>throughout where none had been before. I have had the same
      >>experience (part of the file, though, not all of it). I think that
      >>has something to do with the fact that WP uses character styles
      >>whereas Word focuses on the paragraph style.
      >
      >
      >There were bolded titles, etc in the first third.
      >
      >Then it bolded EVERYTHING.... and attempts to unbold same failed. I
      >do think if I'd zapped all the styles I could have fixed it, but
      >what a PITA....
      >
      >_______________________________________________________________________
      _____
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 9
      Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:05:53 -0500
      From: David Lesher <lesher [email address protected]Subject: Re:
      Conversions & Styles

      At 22:16 +0000 2004:11:16, Geoff Gilbert wrote:
      >David
      >
      >I think the problem arises because when writing in Word, the author
      >turned on a new paragraph style without turning off the first one.
      >Thus, Maclink plus simply applies both. WP expects styles to start
      >and finish whereas Word applies a new style once it is applied. Two
      >fundamentally different approaches to formatting text.

      Yep, and one of the many things a translation program should deal
      with.....


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 10
      Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:41:44 -0800
      From: Harald Sundt <h_sundt [email address protected]org>
      Subject: How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?

      How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?

      Thanks


      PS: Also, how would you compare the save as Windows 98, ect...

      I know Corel leases MacLink Plus translator... but I don't know if
      Corel had SOME translator functionality distinct from MacLink Plus

      AGAIN thanks

      Hal



      Mr. Singer - I forwarded this to you because several of my posts
      haven't made the list. I think it is because my server adds pop to my
      h_sundt [email address protected]to make it h_sundt [email address
      protected]org so SOME lists don't
      accept it. If you don't see it on the list could you post my question
      for me? Thanks H
      --
      WAR IS PEACE - FREEDOM IS SLAVERY - IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 11
      Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:54:02 -0600
      From: "Jeff Fallen" <lampmuz [email address protected]Subject: WP
      printing and conversions final

      Thanks for all the suggestions and directions from everyone. Very
      helpful.

      Just for future reference, in converting a WP8 Windows document, I
      saved it
      in the WP5 format (thanks, John) which put a .wp extension on it.
      WP3.5
      would only see .txt extensions in the open file window, so I changed the
      extension and my document converted and loaded.

      And, in case anyone is wondering about the HP aio printer mystery, I
      fully
      aligned the system per Bill's 10 step notes (very helpful,) downloaded
      HP's
      latest driver, installed according to instructions and the printer is
      still
      not properly recognized in classic. Probably have to boot and install
      in
      classic, but I decided to use Print to PDF or simply just save as PDF.
      The aio printers are small and adequate for most tasks, scan well and I
      switched to lighten the load, to save space and because I don't do a
      lot of
      professional-quality printing anymore. I'm impressed with their
      ability
      to conserve ink in the fast draft mode, which is helpful with the cost
      of HP
      cartridges.

      Frankly, as an old and new Mac user, I like OS X and the ease and speed
      of
      working with the apps in it. Documents produced in Apple Works can be
      saved
      as PDF with a substantial increase in print quality from Adobe or
      Preview.

      Regards,

      Jeff

      _________________________________________________________________
      DonĂ­t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
      http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 12
      Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:54:14 -0800
      From: Randy B. Singer <randy [email address protected]Subject: Re: How
      does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?

      Harald Sundt said:

      >How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?

      With RTF you are going to lose any complex formatting. With MacLink+
      you
      will only lose some complex formatting.


      >I know Corel leases MacLink Plus translator... but I don't know if
      >Corel had SOME translator functionality distinct from MacLink Plus

      When WP/Mac was released, it only had its own built-in translators. The
      number one complaint of users was that these translators were
      inadequate.
      So Corel licensed MLP translators. They still weren't great.




      Randy B. Singer
      Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

      Routine OS X Maintenance and Generic Troubleshooting
      http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 13
      Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:11:13 -0500
      From: "Phillip Jones, C.E.T." <pjones1 [email address
      protected]Subject: Re: How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+
      ?



      Randy B.Singer wrote:
      > Harald Sundt said:
      >
      >
      >>How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?
      >
      >
      > With RTF you are going to lose any complex formatting. With MacLink+
      you
      > will only lose some complex formatting.
      >
      >
      >
      >>I know Corel leases MacLink Plus translator... but I don't know if
      >>Corel had SOME translator functionality distinct from MacLink Plus
      >
      >
      > When WP/Mac was released, it only had its own built-in translators.
      The
      > number one complaint of users was that these translators were
      inadequate.
      > So Corel licensed MLP translators. They still weren't great.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Randy B. Singer
      > Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)
      >
      > Routine OS X Maintenance and Generic Troubleshooting
      > http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ____
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      correct me if I assuming worng. Isn't the problem that WP uses its own
      unique system or writing the file.
      --
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET,
      Sterling
      616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045,
      FAX:276-632-0868
      Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |pjones [email address
      protected]ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---

      If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

      mailto:pjones [email address
      protected]http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
      <http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
      <http://vpea.exis.net>

      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 14
      Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:10:06 -0500
      From: David Lesher <lesher [email address protected]Subject: Re: How
      does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?

      At 7:41 -0800 2004:11:18, Harald Sundt wrote:
      >How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?


      I've had limited luck with WPF's RTF; at least as a route <> WORD...

      My issue with MacLink is it dies on some docs and does a terrible job
      on others.

      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 15
      Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:20:51 -0500
      From: whunter <whunterjr [email address protected]Subject: Re: How does
      "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?

      This general problem is more endless than the ultimate surfing wave.
      It is all of the above and none of the above and nothing is going to
      change. I sent a note off line recently to someone who raised the same
      issues offering my 'simple' distillation rather than wasting hours of
      vain attempts and FRUSTRATIONS. My personal guidelines:
      - Only convert what and when needed - - don't wast time just
      converting files for fun.
      - Where appropriate, open in WP and depending on the document and
      formating:
      - print to a PS file > OS X Preview (auto convert to PDF).
      (Sometimes I use Acrobat Reader which has slightly better text
      accessibility.) Select the text (formatting retained) and drag into
      TextEdit or Mellel for any editing, etc.
      or,
      - select in WP and drag to desktop, as a clipping file and then to
      TextEdit or Mellel.
      - Each to their own, but MacLink is too unreliable and time consuming,
      thus a bad ROI for my wallet.

      There are some obvious minor adjustments to the above simple
      applications of the built in power of OS X. Hopefully by Spring, the
      embellishments of 10.4 will expand the interchange with format
      retention using PDF technology. Analogous approaches work with Word
      documents.

      Summary: Maximize your use of the tools in OS X, avoid frustration and
      don't count on any eureka from a converter utility.
      Regards,
      Bill Hunter

      On Nov 18, 2004, at 7:10 PM, David Lesher wrote:

      > At 7:41 -0800 2004:11:18, Harald Sundt wrote:
      >> How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?
      >
      >
      > I've had limited luck with WPF's RTF; at least as a route <> WORD...
      >
      > My issue with MacLink is it dies on some docs and does a terrible job
      > on others.


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 16
      Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 05:29:10 -0500
      From: whunter <whunterjr [email address protected]Subject: Re: How does
      "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?

      No sooner 'deadpanned' translator / converters when I stumbled onto
      this. From a quick reading, it might prove useful at a modest cost to
      some members of the list. I am quite happy with the 'method' posted,
      but not immune to a versatile and reliable translator. Anyone with
      experience in using?

      http://www.panergy-software.com/products/icword/welcomego0110.html

      Here is a review of v.1.0.
      http://www.atpm.com/6.09/icword.shtml

      Regards,
      Bill Hunter


      On Nov 18, 2004, at 9:20 PM, whunter wrote:

      >
      > Summary: Maximize your use of the tools in OS X, avoid frustration
      > and don't count on any eureka from a converter utility.


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 17
      Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:34:28 +0000
      From: Geoff Gilbert <geoff [email address protected]uk>
      Subject: Re: How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?

      Dear All

      Theres two issues here: converting to and from WP. Taking the latter
      first, if it's a simple file, drag & drop or cut & paste into
      whichever OSX word processor will you wish - Nb. I just dragged and
      dropped a table containing Greek characters and cells with formulae
      into Word - I can edit the table in Word, and it is recognised as a
      table to the point where I can insert rows (by the way, cut and paste
      just took the cell contents over, not the table). If it's at all
      complex (footnotes), I save as Word 6 using the built in Save As
      function in WP. I lose cross-referencing of footnotes, but that's it.
      I have edited the WP Default style in Word so that it looks more
      professional, but otherwise it is hassle free.

      Word to WP (sorry, it's the only other word processor I use) is more
      of a pain. You cannot cut and paste directly - the Word text appears
      as a graphic in WP. You have to use Paste Special and lose all
      formatting. For complex files, I have to use MacLink Plus and it can
      be a nightmare. However, before blaming Dataviz, you need to go back
      to the origins of Word in the 1980s. The inventor decided that Word
      files should be made up of chunks of data that Word would then sort
      internally. If ever you open a Word file in a text editor (something
      one occasionally has to do to find rogue coding, but unnecessary in
      WP because of Reveal Codes .... but let's not go there!!!), you'll
      find lots of "chunks" of your text arranged in a somewhat haphazard
      order, even various generations of that text. When MacLink Plus
      converts, it has to deal with this "teenage bedroom" of a file. It's
      much worse if Fast Save is enabled in Word, but even the AutoSave
      function causes some mess (I have both turned off and I use Cmd-S a
      lot). If I am converting to WP from Word, once I have finished the
      Word file, I open a new file, insert some random character, then
      insert the file I have been working on into that new file and Save As
      under a new name.

      Geoff

      PS. For the really interested reader(s) out there, try
      <http://blogs.msdn.com/rick_schaut/archive/2004/05/19/135315.aspx>




      >This general problem is more endless than the ultimate surfing wave.
      >It is all of the above and none of the above and nothing is going to
      >change. I sent a note off line recently to someone who raised the
      >same issues offering my 'simple' distillation rather than wasting
      >hours of vain attempts and FRUSTRATIONS. My personal guidelines:
      > - Only convert what and when needed - - don't wast time
      >just converting files for fun.
      > - Where appropriate, open in WP and depending on the
      >document and formating:
      > - print to a PS file > OS X Preview (auto convert to
      >PDF). (Sometimes I use Acrobat Reader which has slightly better
      >text accessibility.) Select the text (formatting retained) and drag
      >into TextEdit or Mellel for any editing, etc.
      > or,
      > - select in WP and drag to desktop, as a clipping
      >file and then to TextEdit or Mellel.
      > - Each to their own, but MacLink is too unreliable and time
      >consuming, thus a bad ROI for my wallet.
      >
      >There are some obvious minor adjustments to the above simple
      >applications of the built in power of OS X. Hopefully by Spring,
      >the embellishments of 10.4 will expand the interchange with format
      >retention using PDF technology. Analogous approaches work with Word
      >documents.
      >
      >Summary: Maximize your use of the tools in OS X, avoid frustration
      >and don't count on any eureka from a converter utility.
      >Regards,
      >Bill Hunter
      >
      >On Nov 18, 2004, at 7:10 PM, David Lesher wrote:
      >
      >>At 7:41 -0800 2004:11:18, Harald Sundt wrote:
      >>>How does "save as RTF"in WP compare to MacLink+ ?
      >>
      >>
      >>I've had limited luck with WPF's RTF; at least as a route <> WORD...
      >>
      >>My issue with MacLink is it dies on some docs and does a terrible
      >>job on others.
      >
      >_______________________________________________________________________
      _____
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!


      ------------------------------
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