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WP-L-Digest 2004/03/27 #931

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  • jrethorst@post.com
    Message Number: 1 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:59:41 -0800 From: Randy B. Singer
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 21, 2004
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      Message Number: 1
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:59:41 -0800
      From: Randy B. Singer <randy [email address protected]Subject: Re: Word
      Drawing Object to pict or gif via NeoOffice/J

      whunter said:

      >I am somewhat empathetic with Corel. Probably more of a problem than
      >Corel is Apple and their reticence to promote, assist, etc., because of
      >the backdoor agreements with MS. Not until Apple 'wills' will it
      >happen.


      Many folks may have forgotten the incredible lengths that Apple went to
      to promote WordPerfect/Mac when it was released. WordPerfect was there,
      for instance, when Apple rolled out the first new PowerPC-based Mac
      models. For a while it seemed that Apple and WordPerfect were joined at
      the hip.

      As for the conspiracy theory of Apple having agreements with MS to keep
      WP down...I don't buy it. While Apple has to do its best to get along
      with MS, as they do with any big and important developer for the Mac,
      Apple testified against MS in their anti-trust trial, and in the past
      couple of years Apple has rolled out Keynote (a direct competitor for
      PowerPoint), Mail (competitor for Outlook Express), and Safari
      (competitor for Internet Explorer.) There are even very strong rumors
      that Apple is working with Sun to create an office suite to compete with
      Microsoft Office. It doesn't sound to me as if Apple is in MS's back
      pocket.


      Randy B. Singer
      Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

      How To Deal With Common OS X 10.3 Panther Problems
      http://www.macattorney.com/panther.html


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 2
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:59:12 -0500
      From: whunter <whunterjr [email address protected]Subject: Re:
      Translation, Xshelf and duhh


      On Mar 27, 2004, at 7:44 PM, Matthew Cope wrote:

      > On 3/27/04 7:36 PM, "Madwen" <madwen [email address protected]wrote:
      >
      >> Seems like a really cool app. I DLd it and activated it but I can
      >> only
      >> get it to work by selecting it in the dock after I have switched
      >> between apps. Then it will work again until the next time I switch
      to
      >> another program and then I have to select it in the dock again. I am
      >> running 10.3.3. Am I doing something wrong or is that the way it
      >> always works? I had expected it to pop up whenever you drag
      something
      >> toward it, but first you have to select it in the doc.
      >
      > I gave it a try and it worked fine in 10.3.3 for me. Except... I'
      > working
      > with a laptop with an external monitor attached -- and it positioned
      > itself
      > on the left of the far left -- in territory I have to make an effort
      to
      > visit. And I have my Dock on the right of the right, so that's not an
      > option...
      >
      You may have to work with both the OS X Display Preference for a dual
      screen setup and the XShelf Preferences to get the arrangement most
      suitable. I have a dual display thus understand your point. The setup
      algorithm with these two sets of preferences is NOT something I can put
      in writing :-(. Fundamentally suspect you will have to place XShelf
      on either R or L outside edge. I have mine on the R outside edge where
      it does not interfere with other functions.
      Best,
      Bill



      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 3
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:01:36 -0500
      From: whunter <whunterjr [email address protected]Subject: Re:
      Translation, Xshelf and duhh

      See just posted note. Basically you just open and ignore. When
      needed, you simply drag the highlighted text / image / page over the
      designated edge whence the window pops open without further ado.

      No need to turn on / off.
      Bill

      On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:05 PM, Madwen wrote:

      > So, while you did not say, I assume the way it is working for me is
      > not normal. I thought this might be because I use Keyboard Maestro
      > (formerly Program Switcher) to switch between apps. Just a guess but
      > it seems logical. Deactivating Maestro, however, did not resolve the
      > problem.
      >


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 4
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:22:57 -0500
      From: whunter <whunterjr [email address protected]Subject: Re: Word
      Drawing Object

      Steve -

      Bummer......... (Did not write what I just uttered.......) Full
      circle to your original post!!! You are ABSOLUTELY correct.

      Text only opens in OS X Text Edit
      NOTHING !!! in Apple Works latest update.
      Host of other apps including Graphic Converter won't open the graphic.
      You are absolutely correct about the graphic being imbedded instead of
      being an extractable file. When opened in Tex-Edit Plus, all the
      graphics symbols show.

      I think the Europeans should triple the fine!!!!

      At least there is a MS Word for the Mac......... yawn.........
      Thanks for your help.
      Bill


      On Mar 27, 2004, at 6:46 PM, Steve Kane wrote:

      > On Mar 27, 2004, at 4:45 PM, whunter wrote:
      >
      >> Since posting a reply, have searched the Lemke SW site and Google.
      >> Looks like the graphic should open in GC, but not certain. Would
      >> appreciate attaching the example to a 'reply' email so I can test.
      >> At first effort, could not find an example to test.
      >
      > Bill,
      >
      > What started me on all this was my wife taking an online continuing
      > education course for realtors. Right off the bat she needed to open a
      > MS Word file. Apparently the company that provides the course thinks
      > everyone taking the course bought a pc running Windows bundled with a
      > copy of MS Office. Sad thing is they are probably close to right.
      > Anyway, I've attached the file called "solution.doc" which finally did
      > open properly in NeoOffice/J and nothing else on my Mac. Note that in
      > NeoOffice/J and in MS Word 2000 the text inside the boxes is editable.
      >
      > Steve


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 5
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:12:05 -0500
      From: whunter <whunterjr [email address protected]Subject: Re: Word
      Drawing Object to pict or gif via NeoOffice/J

      Did not say nor do I believe in the conspiracy theory. I do believe
      that Apple MUST have an Office-type program to compete, and MS is the
      only current player. MS will stop at nothing, not even the European
      regulators, to seek control of the market. Apple is not going to go to
      Corel and stir up the bee bonnet over WP Office when they have MS
      Office Mac available for the near future. In the unlikely event Corel
      AND Apple dance together wherein both 'WILL', a revised WP Mac will
      return. My guess is the venture capital firm that purchased Corel is
      most interested in near term profits and long term Linux, not dancing
      with Apple. In the context of product development cycle time and cost
      in a market undergoing Euroquakes, I remain somewhat empathetic to
      Corel.

      Like you, keep hearing from knowledgeable 'insiders' the 'rumor' of
      Apple being involved with Sun, programmers in India, little green men,
      etc. To remain in the market and expand their market share, Apple must
      have a professional 'Office' type suite which at a minimum, does not
      control their Corp. respiratory rate. This is as obvious to Apple
      marketing as to all of us. When and what, not whether, are the
      questions. Frankly, I perceive the door will open via the Linux
      pathway as the marketplace pendulum swings. As with the 'dual
      platform' of Classic, the future should bring an analogous switchable
      configuration with Linux imbedded in a future version of OS X. Such
      will provide a widely accepted standard 'Office' suite which runs in
      Linux, be it developed by Sun, IBM, Corel, Apple, MS, little green men
      on curry or whatever. If nothing else, the European Commission has
      insured a dramatic swing of the market pendulum in the next 2-3 years.
      With the Unix underpinnings, OS X / Apple is likely to become linked
      to the Linux marketplace, a force which is about to overwhelm even
      Windows. Just some thoughts. Penultimately, the market will drive,
      even if looped via Europe.

      In sum: OS X will be a pathway to an entire new marketplace of Linux /
      Unix apps, ironically including the Linux version of WP....... Three
      years from now, the grace of OS X plus the forthcoming generations of
      the IBM G5 plus the marketplace will have changed even the tone of this
      list. $, not rumors, 'WILL'. AMEN.
      Bill

      On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:59 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:

      > There are even very strong rumors
      > that Apple is working with Sun to create an office suite to compete
      > with
      > Microsoft Office. It doesn't sound to me as if Apple is in MS's back
      > pocket.


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 6
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:19:38 -0600
      From: Ed Gould <edgould [email address protected]Subject: Re: Word
      Drawing Object to pict or gif via NeoOffice/J

      on 3/27/04 7:59 PM, Randy B. Singer at randy [email address
      protected]wrote:

      ----SNIP--------

      >
      > As for the conspiracy theory of Apple having agreements with MS to
      keep
      > WP down...I don't buy it. While Apple has to do its best to get along
      > with MS, as they do with any big and important developer for the Mac,
      > Apple testified against MS in their anti-trust trial, and in the past
      > couple of years Apple has rolled out Keynote (a direct competitor for
      > PowerPoint), Mail (competitor for Outlook Express), and Safari
      > (competitor for Internet Explorer.) There are even very strong rumors
      > that Apple is working with Sun to create an office suite to compete
      with
      > Microsoft Office. It doesn't sound to me as if Apple is in MS's back
      > pocket.
      >
      >


      Randy,

      I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip. I *WAS* on the verge of going
      with
      MS office but will wait a few months now. I am (and will always be) a WP
      person. But I need a word processing program soon. I am limping along on
      3.5E and can honestly say its pails in comparison to the OS/2 version.

      Yes I ran OS/2 and probably still would but for a few things. One thing
      that
      beats the pants off of a MAC was OS/2. I know thats hearasy on a MAC
      list
      but it did work and it *NEVER* crashed. My OS9 I have to boot every few
      days or it crashes. never mind the 6++ crashes a day EUDORA caused me.

      Ed



      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 7
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:27:41 -0500
      From: whunter <whunterjr [email address protected]Subject: Re: Word
      Drawing Object to pict or gif via NeoOffice/J

      I might add as most are aware:
      As Confucius say, great circle always close. Novell, once upon a time
      owner of WP Mac, is exploding on the Linux scene. I would not be
      totally surprised to see them port WP or a variant either with or aside
      from the new Corel group. It is Spring and the winds of change are
      blowing together new partners in the marketplace...... it might be
      more productive to direct pleadings to them. : - O

      best,
      Bill


      On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:59 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:

      > whunter said:
      >
      >> I am somewhat empathetic with Corel. Probably more of a problem than
      >> Corel is Apple and their reticence to promote, assist, etc., because
      >> of
      >> the backdoor agreements with MS. Not until Apple 'wills' will it
      >> happen.


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 8
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:55:26 -0800
      From: Randy B. Singer <randy [email address protected]Subject: Re: Word
      Drawing Object to pict or gif via NeoOffice/J

      Ed Gould said:

      >> There are even very strong rumors
      >> that Apple is working with Sun to create an office suite to compete
      with
      >> Microsoft Office. It doesn't sound to me as if Apple is in MS's back
      >> pocket.
      >
      >Randy,
      >
      >I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip. I *WAS* on the verge of going
      with
      >MS office but will wait a few months now. I am (and will always be) a
      WP
      >person. But I need a word processing program soon. I am limping along
      on
      >3.5E and can honestly say its pails in comparison to the OS/2 version.

      I don't think that you should wait based on that rumor. The rumors of
      an
      office suite from Apple have been floating around for at least a couple
      of years now. There were rumors that it would be released at MWX/SF,
      not
      last January, but the year before that.

      The last rumor that I heard said that Apple is holding that product in
      abeyance in case Microsoft pulls Office from the Mac market. Apparently
      the thinking is that it is better for Apple to have Microsoft Office a
      strong player on the Mac platform. And I agree. Only Microsoft can
      assure full compatibility with the Windows versions of Word and Excel.
      This is especially a concern now that Word will be switching to a
      *patented* proprietary XML format.

      See:
      http://news.com.com/2100-1013_3-5146581.html

      The problem, which came out in the Microsoft anti-trust trial, is that
      everytime that MS wanted Apple to do something, they would threaten that
      they would pull Office from the Mac if Apple didn't comply. With an
      alternative available in the wings, Apple doesn't have to capitulate
      faced with this sort of extortion.

      >Yes I ran OS/2 and probably still would but for a few things. One
      thing that
      >beats the pants off of a MAC was OS/2. I know thats hearasy on a MAC
      list
      >but it did work and it *NEVER* crashed. My OS9 I have to boot every
      few
      >days or it crashes. never mind the 6++ crashes a day EUDORA caused me.

      OS/2 was a wonderful OS, but it never got the support from third party
      developers and customers that it needed to survive. It's a shame that
      it
      didn't make it, because I really think that the competition among OS's
      would be good for everyone.

      But for now, and for you in particular, Ed, I suspect that if you
      updated
      to OS X that you would be as happy with it (after you got used to it) as
      you were with OS/2. In 2-plus years I have never had a system crash
      under OS X. (Though I have had a handful of application crashes.
      Usually from poorly written shareware.)





      Randy B. Singer
      Co-Author of: The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

      How come we never see this headline in the newspapers?: "Psychic Wins
      Lottery!"


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 9
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:13:44 -0600
      From: Madwen <madwen [email address protected]Subject: Re: Translation,
      Xshelf and duhh

      Yes, it stays open. Of course I drag the cursor off the screen. Like
      I said (look again), it works after I click on Xshelf in the dock but
      not before. The app is open the entire time. But each time I switch
      apps, the "shelf" refuses to appear (upon dragging the cursor to the
      edge of the screen) unless I first click on Xshelf in the dock. Then it
      continues to work until I switch to another application. I already
      visited the prefs and the defaults seemed fine. Did you have some
      particular pref in mind?

      On Mar 27, 2004, at 7:52 PM, whunter wrote:

      > Hmmmm. Once it is OPEN (i.e. black triangle under it in the Dock) it
      > should stay open at all times until shut down. Trust you have to drag
      > the cursor off the edge of the screen to see the window which is
      > normally hidden. I have XShelf auto-load at startup (a very small
      > program) thus it is always available in the background.
      >
      > Just re-read your note. You must drag the item to be stored to the
      > very edge being used, NOT 'towards' it.
      > Try again and let us know if this solved.
      > SET THE XSHELF PREFERENCES!!!
      > Bill
      >
      >
      > On Mar 27, 2004, at 7:36 PM, Madwen wrote:
      >
      >>
      >>> Earlier, I sent Cope a short note on the extraordinary OS X utility
      >>> XShelf
      >>
      >> Seems like a really cool app. I DLd it and activated it but I can
      >> only get it to work by selecting it in the dock after I have switched
      >> between apps. Then it will work again until the next time I switch
      >> to another program and then I have to select it in the dock again. I
      >> am running 10.3.3. Am I doing something wrong or is that the way it
      >> always works? I had expected it to pop up whenever you drag
      >> something toward it, but first you have to select it in the doc.
      >>
      >> Madeleine
      >
      >
      _______________________________________________________________________
      > _____
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!
      >
      >
      >


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 10
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:19:46 -0600
      From: Madwen <madwen [email address protected]Subject: Re: Translation,
      Xshelf and duhh

      I never said I turned it on and off. Again, I have to click on the
      _already and continuously open_ Xshelf icon on the dock to make it
      work. The shelf does not pop open otherwise. I sincerely hope that is
      clear now. lol


      On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:01 PM, whunter wrote:

      > See just posted note. Basically you just open and ignore. When
      > needed, you simply drag the highlighted text / image / page over the
      > designated edge whence the window pops open without further ado.
      >
      > No need to turn on / off.
      > Bill
      >
      > On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:05 PM, Madwen wrote:
      >
      >> So, while you did not say, I assume the way it is working for me is
      >> not normal. I thought this might be because I use Keyboard Maestro
      >> (formerly Program Switcher) to switch between apps. Just a guess but
      >> it seems logical. Deactivating Maestro, however, did not resolve the
      >> problem.
      >>
      >
      >
      _______________________________________________________________________
      > _____
      > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change options, visit
      > <http://www.r8ix.com/lists.html>. Thanks!
      >
      >
      >


      ------------------------------

      Message Number: 11
      Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:39:27 -0600
      From: Madwen <madwen [email address protected]Subject: Re: Word Drawing
      Object to pict or gif via NeoOffice/J


      On Mar 27, 2004, at 9:55 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:

      > But for now, and for you in particular, Ed, I suspect that if you
      > updated
      > to OS X that you would be as happy with it (after you got used to it)
      > as
      > you were with OS/2. In 2-plus years I have never had a system crash
      > under OS X. (Though I have had a handful of application crashes.
      > Usually from poorly written shareware.)

      Just wanted to add a couple things here for Ed. First off, 9.2.2 is a
      lot more stable than 9.1. But, having switched over to X just a few
      months ago after a lot of gnashing of teeth and worrying, I must say
      that it took me only a few short weeks to be thoroughly glad that I
      did. WP, as the others will attest, runs far better in Classic mode
      from Panther than it ever did booting in any of the OS 9 incarnations.
      I have not experienced a single kernel panic in all that time, I never
      have to worry about fussing with extensions, and the only times I have
      rebooted have been for a couple power outages and for some software
      installation. Be sure you have enough memory before switching,
      though, or you will be unhappy. I find 1.2 GB on a Quicksilver to be
      quite adequate for my non-graphic-intensive needs.

      Madeleine


      ------------------------------
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