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woodburning fireplace insert plans

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  • unforgiven_me_70@yahoo.com
    First off, hello...I am new to this group. I am interested in building my own firepace insert. I have been out pricing various brands of inserts & I have found
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 16, 2001
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      First off, hello...I am new to this group.

      I am interested in building my own firepace insert. I have been out
      pricing various brands of inserts & I have found that the
      manufactures are rather proud of their work ( expencive ) So, I
      figure I can build one, as I work at a machine/fabrication shop.

      Does anyone know of anywhere where I can find some plans for an
      insert? I can adapt it to fit my particular fireplace ( custom fit ).
      I am also just curious as to how these things work exactally. Right
      now, mine is an "open" fireplace, you know with just the screens
      seperating the room from the fire. Needless to say, you have to burn
      a ton of wood in order to heat the room. ( I live in nothern Utah,
      gets kinda cold here in the winter ) What with gas prices rising I
      think that this is a very good option worth looking into.

      thanks in advance.
    • John Gulland
      Here is the advice I give people who want to build their own wood stove: DON T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! And here is why. You can t burn wood cleanly and
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 17, 2001
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        Here is the advice I give people who want to build their own wood stove: DON'T
        EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!

        And here is why.
        You can't burn wood cleanly and efficiently without a good combustion system,
        and you can't design and build a one-off combustion system that is any good. One
        of the reasons why good wood stoves cost at least $700 is because it took a lot
        of practice, trial and error and bucket loads of money to get them to work
        properly and to pass both safety and emissions test standards. 30 years ago wood
        burning technology was crude, sort of like folk-technology and anyone with a
        welder could call himself a manufacturer. It is not like that any more and it is
        a good thing. A lot of folks got burned, both literally and financially, buying
        stoves built by people who didn't know what they were doing.

        You admit that you don't know how these things work, so how could you build a
        good one? Consider this: I started my wood burning career 25 years ago as a
        welder on the stove assembly line; I know exactly how modern wood stoves work
        because I've hung out with their designers and I'm a member of all the standards
        committees; and I have a shop 100 feet from where I'm sitting where I could
        build one. But I wouldn't even consider building my own wood stove. I know that
        it would cost me way more in time and trouble than what I would pay for an 'off
        the shelf' stove that would be way better than I could build.

        You have come to the list looking for advice. Here is mine: Go out and buy
        yourself the best stove you can afford and invest your do-it-yourself time in
        getting your firewood in. Then sit back and enjoy the cosy beautiful fire.

        Regards,
        John Gulland
        The Wood Heat Organization Inc.
        http://www.woodheat.org
        A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: unforgiven_me_70@... [mailto:unforgiven_me_70@...]
        > Sent: October 17, 2001 12:26 AM
        > To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [woodheat] woodburning fireplace insert plans
        >
        >
        > First off, hello...I am new to this group.
        >
        > I am interested in building my own firepace insert. I have been out
        > pricing various brands of inserts & I have found that the
        > manufactures are rather proud of their work ( expencive ) So, I
        > figure I can build one, as I work at a machine/fabrication shop.
        >
        > Does anyone know of anywhere where I can find some plans for an
        > insert? I can adapt it to fit my particular fireplace ( custom fit ).
        > I am also just curious as to how these things work exactally. Right
        > now, mine is an "open" fireplace, you know with just the screens
        > seperating the room from the fire. Needless to say, you have to burn
        > a ton of wood in order to heat the room. ( I live in nothern Utah,
        > gets kinda cold here in the winter ) What with gas prices rising I
        > think that this is a very good option worth looking into.
        >
        > thanks in advance.
        >
        >
        > Check THE woodheat web site at www.woodheat.org
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • unforgiven_me_70@yahoo.com
        Ok, here is the problem...I simply cannot afford to purchase one of these $1000 units. I have seen the consrtuction of these and they are not very impressive (
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 17, 2001
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          Ok, here is the problem...I simply cannot afford to purchase one of
          these $1000 units. I have seen the consrtuction of these and they are
          not very impressive ( ie poor workmanship ) About the only thing that
          would be difficult to recreate would be the fancy brass door.

          True, I don't know exactally how these things work, but I do know the
          theroy behind them. I am also VERY skilled at building & fabricating
          various things. The reason why I would like to have some sort of
          plans to follow would be so that I could incorporate some of the
          emission control devises the stove engineers have come up with. From
          what I have seen at the local stores around here an insert would not
          be too tough to build....if you have the access to the right tools (
          which I do )

          I respect your opinion but there is simply no way I can afford to
          spend well over $1000 ( some I have priced run over $1800!! ).
          So, back to my original point...does anyone know of anyplace where I
          can acuire some plans for a fireplace insert?

          Thanks again.

          -- In woodheat@y..., "John Gulland" <john@g...> wrote:
          > Here is the advice I give people who want to build their own wood
          stove: DON'T
          > EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!
          >
          > And here is why.
          > You can't burn wood cleanly and efficiently without a good
          combustion system,
          > and you can't design and build a one-off combustion system that is
          any good. One
          > of the reasons why good wood stoves cost at least $700 is because
          it took a lot
          > of practice, trial and error and bucket loads of money to get them
          to work
          > properly and to pass both safety and emissions test standards. 30
          years ago wood
          > burning technology was crude, sort of like folk-technology and
          anyone with a
          > welder could call himself a manufacturer. It is not like that any
          more and it is
          > a good thing. A lot of folks got burned, both literally and
          financially, buying
          > stoves built by people who didn't know what they were doing.
          >
          > You admit that you don't know how these things work, so how could
          you build a
          > good one? Consider this: I started my wood burning career 25 years
          ago as a
          > welder on the stove assembly line; I know exactly how modern wood
          stoves work
          > because I've hung out with their designers and I'm a member of all
          the standards
          > committees; and I have a shop 100 feet from where I'm sitting where
          I could
          > build one. But I wouldn't even consider building my own wood stove.
          I know that
          > it would cost me way more in time and trouble than what I would pay
          for an 'off
          > the shelf' stove that would be way better than I could build.
          >
          > You have come to the list looking for advice. Here is mine: Go out
          and buy
          > yourself the best stove you can afford and invest your do-it-
          yourself time in
          > getting your firewood in. Then sit back and enjoy the cosy
          beautiful fire.
          >
          > Regards,
          > John Gulland
          > The Wood Heat Organization Inc.
          > http://www.woodheat.org
          > A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating
          with wood
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: unforgiven_me_70@y... [mailto:unforgiven_me_70@y...]
          > > Sent: October 17, 2001 12:26 AM
          > > To: woodheat@y...
          > > Subject: [woodheat] woodburning fireplace insert plans
          > >
          > >
          > > First off, hello...I am new to this group.
          > >
          > > I am interested in building my own firepace insert. I have been
          out
          > > pricing various brands of inserts & I have found that the
          > > manufactures are rather proud of their work ( expencive ) So, I
          > > figure I can build one, as I work at a machine/fabrication shop.
          > >
          > > Does anyone know of anywhere where I can find some plans for an
          > > insert? I can adapt it to fit my particular fireplace ( custom
          fit ).
          > > I am also just curious as to how these things work exactally.
          Right
          > > now, mine is an "open" fireplace, you know with just the screens
          > > seperating the room from the fire. Needless to say, you have to
          burn
          > > a ton of wood in order to heat the room. ( I live in nothern Utah,
          > > gets kinda cold here in the winter ) What with gas prices rising I
          > > think that this is a very good option worth looking into.
          > >
          > > thanks in advance.
          > >
          > >
          > > Check THE woodheat web site at www.woodheat.org
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • John Gulland
          ... There are no plans available for a good fireplace insert. If I spent $100,000 developing a successful fireplace insert and have a factory building them,
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 18, 2001
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            > So, back to my original point...does anyone know of anyplace where I
            > can acuire some plans for a fireplace insert?

            There are no plans available for a good fireplace insert. If I spent $100,000
            developing a successful fireplace insert and have a factory building them, why
            would I make the plans available for anyone to build? If you were to find plans,
            they would undoubtedly show you how to make a lousy insert because no one in
            their right mind would suggest that a fireplace insert is a project for amatuers
            (you may be able to weld, but you're not a wood heat expert). My suspicion is
            that you have greatly underestimated the actual complexity buried in a good
            insert.

            In addition, no insurance company I have heard of would insure a house
            containing a home-made insert.

            If you can't afford a decent insert, you obviously can't affort to install it
            properly since that should always include a full stainless steel liner to the
            top of the chimney, another several hundred dollars. But you have a job and lots
            of skills, so I doubt very much that if heating with wood were really important
            to you, you couldn't save up some money over a period of time and do it right.
            (I am amused by those who say they can't afford a $1000 stove but they have a
            $5000 snowmobile in the yard.)

            I'll be surprised if you get much support on this list for your project.

            Regards,
            John
          • Thumper Lunatic
            Is there a Lowes homecenter any where near you ? In todays (10/17/01) sale paper there is a 36 heat circulating woodburning fire place , and a 42 zero
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 18, 2001
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               Is there a Lowes homecenter any where near you ? In todays (10/17/01) sale paper there is a 36" heat circulating woodburning fire place , and a 42" zero clearance fireplace under $200 and $300 respectively,  frankly I would be suspicious of the quaility, but Lowe's will at times get good deals on discontinued or promotional products.

              Thumper



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              Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
            • Larry & Candace Gitzel
              I made a wood stove for my shop and it works very well. It is covered by insurance but I m told they no longer take on anymore policies like this. I only run
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 18, 2001
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                I made a wood stove for my shop and it works very well. It is covered by
                insurance but I'm told they no longer take on anymore policies like this. I
                only run the stove when I'm working in the shop. Plus I'm more concerned of
                a fire bieng started by a spark from the welder or torch etc.

                Like mentioned I don't think any insurance company would insure a home made
                stove in a house. But I do know someone who did design and build his own
                wood stove for his home. He had to send it out to get CSA aproved or
                something in B.C. Cost him alot of money but it was aproved and met codes.
                Said after all the hassel he could have bought one much cheaper. He set it
                up in the basement which was a poor spot with the chimney running outside.
                Had back drafts, smoked up basement etc. and eventually quit using it.

                End of Story.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "John Gulland" <john@...>
                To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:21 AM
                Subject: RE: [woodheat] Re: woodburning fireplace insert plans


                > > So, back to my original point...does anyone know of anyplace where I
                > > can acuire some plans for a fireplace insert?
                >
                > There are no plans available for a good fireplace insert. If I spent
                $100,000
                > developing a successful fireplace insert and have a factory building them,
                why
                > would I make the plans available for anyone to build? If you were to find
                plans,
                > they would undoubtedly show you how to make a lousy insert because no one
                in
                > their right mind would suggest that a fireplace insert is a project for
                amatuers
                > (you may be able to weld, but you're not a wood heat expert). My suspicion
                is
                > that you have greatly underestimated the actual complexity buried in a
                good
                > insert.
                >
                > In addition, no insurance company I have heard of would insure a house
                > containing a home-made insert.
                >
                > If you can't afford a decent insert, you obviously can't affort to install
                it
                > properly since that should always include a full stainless steel liner to
                the
                > top of the chimney, another several hundred dollars. But you have a job
                and lots
                > of skills, so I doubt very much that if heating with wood were really
                important
                > to you, you couldn't save up some money over a period of time and do it
                right.
                > (I am amused by those who say they can't afford a $1000 stove but they
                have a
                > $5000 snowmobile in the yard.)
                >
                > I'll be surprised if you get much support on this list for your project.
                >
                > Regards,
                > John
                >
                >
                > Check THE woodheat web site at www.woodheat.org
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • John Gulland
                ... Let this be a lesson to all prospective wood burners! John
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 19, 2001
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                  Larry wrote:
                  > He set it
                  > up in the basement which was a poor spot with the chimney running outside.
                  > Had back drafts, smoked up basement etc. and eventually quit using it.

                  Let this be a lesson to all prospective wood burners!
                  John
                • aquapontica@yahoo.co.uk
                  ... You would be far better off building an outdoor furnace and pipe the hot air into the house. It would be a hell of a lot safer than an indoor woodburner.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 20, 2001
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                    --- In woodheat@y..., unforgiven_me_70@y... wrote:
                    > First off, hello...I am new to this group.
                    >
                    > I am interested in building my own firepace insert. I have been out
                    > pricing various brands of inserts & I have found that the
                    > manufactures are rather proud of their work ( expencive ) So, I
                    > figure I can build one, as I work at a machine/fabrication shop.
                    >

                    You would be far better off building an outdoor furnace and pipe the
                    hot air into the house. It would be a hell of a lot safer than an
                    indoor woodburner.

                    Malcolm

                    > Does anyone know of anywhere where I can find some plans for an
                    > insert? I can adapt it to fit my particular fireplace ( custom
                    fit ).
                    > I am also just curious as to how these things work exactally. Right
                    > now, mine is an "open" fireplace, you know with just the screens
                    > seperating the room from the fire. Needless to say, you have to
                    burn
                    > a ton of wood in order to heat the room. ( I live in nothern Utah,
                    > gets kinda cold here in the winter ) What with gas prices rising I
                    > think that this is a very good option worth looking into.
                    >
                    > thanks in advance.
                  • John Gulland
                    ... That is spectacularly bad advice, Malcolm, on so many different levels I hardly know where to start. So I won t even try. But one point needs responding to
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 22, 2001
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                      > --- In woodheat@y..., unforgiven_me_70@y... wrote:
                      > > First off, hello...I am new to this group.
                      > >
                      > > I am interested in building my own firepace insert. I have been out
                      > > pricing various brands of inserts & I have found that the
                      > > manufactures are rather proud of their work ( expencive ) So, I
                      > > figure I can build one, as I work at a machine/fabrication shop.
                      > >
                      >
                      > You would be far better off building an outdoor furnace and pipe the
                      > hot air into the house. It would be a hell of a lot safer than an
                      > indoor woodburner.
                      >
                      > Malcolm

                      That is spectacularly bad advice, Malcolm, on so many different levels I hardly
                      know where to start. So I won't even try. But one point needs responding to for
                      the benefit of others on the list.

                      Malcolm implies that heating with stoves, fireplaces and wood furnaces is
                      inherently hazardous, making outdoor boilers/furnaces a better option. This is
                      not true. Over the past 20 years, I have not seen a single documented case in
                      which a safety certified wood heater or chimney, correctly installed according
                      to the manufacturer's instructions and local codes and used responsibly was
                      found to be the cause of a house fire. Wood heating using appliances located
                      indoors is not inherently hazardous, any more than electric, gas or oil heating
                      is hazardous. On the other hand, human error in dealing with wood heating can
                      lead to house fires, which is why we all need to be responsible users.

                      Regards,
                      John Gulland
                      The Wood Heat Organization Inc.
                      http://www.woodheat.org
                      A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood
                    • Larry & Candace Gitzel
                      The way I read Malcom s post was that if the person who wants to build his own stove would be better to build an outdoor furnace. For saftey reasons along
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 22, 2001
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                        The way I read Malcom's post was that if the person who wants "to build his
                        own stove" would be better to build an outdoor furnace. For saftey reasons
                        along with insurance reasons bieng an home build unit. I would have to
                        agree building an outdoor unit may be the way to go if your handy at that
                        sort of thing and enjoy doing it.. But it still has to be placed far away
                        from the house. Be sure to check with your insurance company as to how close
                        it can be! I know of a guy who made a outdoor coal boiler for his home and
                        it works fine. The thing I find with out door furnaces as most a far too
                        big and don't get burned correctly. Same as having a large wood stove in a
                        house and having a smoldering fire all the time.

                        As I mentioned in a earlier post I can't see any insurance company insuring
                        a home made stove in a house.

                        JMHO


                        > > > I am interested in building my own firepace insert. I have been out
                        > > > pricing various brands of inserts & I have found that the
                        > > > manufactures are rather proud of their work ( expencive ) So, I
                        > > > figure I can build one, as I work at a machine/fabrication shop.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > You would be far better off building an outdoor furnace and pipe the
                        > > hot air into the house. It would be a hell of a lot safer than an
                        > > indoor woodburner.
                        > >
                        > > Malcolm
                        >
                        > That is spectacularly bad advice, Malcolm, on so many different levels I
                        hardly
                        > know where to start. So I won't even try. But one point needs responding
                        to for
                        > the benefit of others on the list.
                        >
                        > Malcolm implies that heating with stoves, fireplaces and wood furnaces is
                        > inherently hazardous, making outdoor boilers/furnaces a better option.
                        This is
                        > not true. Over the past 20 years, I have not seen a single documented case
                        in
                        > which a safety certified wood heater or chimney, correctly installed
                        according
                        > to the manufacturer's instructions and local codes and used responsibly
                        was
                        > found to be the cause of a house fire. Wood heating using appliances
                        located
                        > indoors is not inherently hazardous, any more than electric, gas or oil
                        heating
                        > is hazardous. On the other hand, human error in dealing with wood heating
                        can
                        > lead to house fires, which is why we all need to be responsible users.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        > John Gulland
                        > The Wood Heat Organization Inc.
                        > http://www.woodheat.org
                        > A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Check THE woodheat web site at www.woodheat.org
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
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