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Re: [woodheat] Re: Daka 521 woodstove

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  • MICHAEL MC*EACHRAN
    Sam thank you very much. I will seal up the seams before insulating.The dungeon is very cold the 70 s part stays very warm because of radiating heat from the
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 3, 2008
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      Sam thank you very much. I will seal up the seams before insulating.The dungeon is very cold the 70's part stays very warm because of radiating heat from the stove. The damper on the front of the stove is heat spring sensitive and hard to regulate with the manual damper. although this is the first week of using it with the manual damper.I also am thinking of turnning off one of the fans on the stove. Have two now on the stove . (have one on the stove and one on the furnace) I have it said to me that volume of 140 deg air is better than 160 deg less volume.Opinion please. The chimney is inside and 30 feet high. Not sipping wood Mike
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: samiamrd<mailto:taborl@...>
      To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:36 AM
      Subject: [woodheat] Re: Daka 521 woodstove


      Mike,

      I think that it was said in a previous post but there are a lot of
      parts to the system that may need to be addressed. Lets start with
      the first question: Will insulated duct work help? Sealing and
      insulating the duct work, in the basement area, will help deliver the
      heat to where it is needed. Heat loss through seams in warm air
      ducts could be a lot of heat, so doing this will most likely help.
      It will also help distribute the conventional heat. Duct sealant can
      be found in Home depo(any hardware store) and fits your standard calk
      gun, It is easy to cover the joints, and it works just like calking
      your bath tub. The duct sealant needs to be applied while your
      circulator is off to prevent the warm air from blowing through the
      calking prior to curing. Once the joints are sealed, apply your
      insulation(R3 to R3 to R6 duct insulation is a good choice). But, if
      you don't seal the joints first, the ducts will keep blowing hot air
      into your insulation and you wont gain efficiency.

      The damper in the chimney. They don't recommend a barometric damper
      unless if your draft is more than 0.06" water column. This usually
      is not a problem, but if you have a very good draft(from a tall
      internal chimney) then you may need to install one. They have a
      recommended range for temperature output, and this may be a time to
      test the temp of the exhaust gas. If the draft is too high, the
      chimney temp will get too hot. This is an ok way for you to tell
      without running a draft test. Also, it seems that they have designed
      this unit to supply air to the fire all of the time, except when the
      unit gets too hot. That is a good thing, but it will force you to
      regulate heat by wood load instead of air supply control like, other
      furnaces of this design. You want air in your firebox to prevent
      smoldering, this was their attempt to reduce this on/off cycling of
      conventional systems which may help reduce creosote buildup. If the
      exhaust temp is too high, when your inline damper is fully open, try
      to regulate it back to keep the exhaust temp in the range specified
      in the manual. If it is still too high, then a barametric damper may
      be needed(internal chimney may need this). If that happens you will
      have to take the inline damper out and re-run the flue gas heat
      trials to make sure that you are not too high or too low.

      The chimney: A clay lined 8 inch chimney is ok. If it is outside of
      the house, you will need to keep it warm, which should work good with
      your furnace airflow design. In our furnace, we kept the fire going
      for most of the winter, which kept our outside chimney warm and
      maintained the draft. Since your is inside the house, you may have
      too much draft. Since this is your first winter, you should be
      periodically checking and cleaning the chimney. It takes time to get
      your fuel usage, and burn cycles optimized, which means that you
      could be experiencing creosote buildup. If you have any buildup,
      clean the chimney. Once you get use to the schedule, you can just
      clean it once a month depending on use. Experience helps with the
      chimney cleaning schedule. I would not line the chimney, with a 6
      inch liner, unless it there is damage to the clay tile liner. Also
      it seems that you might have too much draft at this time, so there
      would be no need to increase it by lining the chimney.

      Wood fuel: With your furnace, you need to have very dry wood. Dry
      wood and a good air supply reduces creosote buildup. If you have
      time to season the wood for maybe a second summer, then you may be
      able to increase the size of the wood(to 8 inches or so). This will
      help the furnace fire longer with one load, and the right amount of
      air which is automatically supplied by your furnace design. This
      only works if you have time to really dry the wood. If the wood is
      still wet, then this type of firing technique will greatly increase
      your creosote buildup. Two season wood in various sizes(4-9 inches)
      worked well with our furnace.

      Lastly, what is the heat loss to the basement. Is your basement
      warm, maybe too warm. You may be loosing a lot of heat to the
      basement. Again duct sealing and insulation may lower that temp.
      The other residual heat should keep your basement relatively dry but
      not hot. If it is hot, you need to redirect that heat upstairs.

      Have a good day,

      Sam

      --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat%40yahoogroups.com>, "MICHAEL MC*EACHRAN" <mikesmold@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Thank you for responding. The house is 76 feet long and the first
      part built in 1940 the second part in 1970. Below zero thru -20 below
      I will burn a stove cord in three days. So will insulating the duct
      work help. The stove is on one end of the house because of the
      chimney. Also it is in the basement. I put a damper on chimney coming
      out of the stove. They don't recommend that. The damper in front is
      spring heat sensitive. Still when shut down a lot heat is going up
      the chimney. The chimney is cement block with 8 inch clay flue tile
      (Looking for opinons please). The wood is seasond oak and hard maple.
      Thank you for your time Mike





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • samiamrd
      The lower air flow is one of the things that we did to our furance. We lowered the fan off set value to 90 degrees(Yours is factory set here) and lowered the
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 4, 2008
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        The lower air flow is one of the things that we did to our furance.
        We lowered the fan off set value to 90 degrees(Yours is factory set
        here) and lowered the air flow vs the parallel conventional 150 Kbtu
        oil unit. Dad's thinking was that he wanted the fan to run all of
        the time except when the fire goes out. When the circulator stops,
        it is really time to add wood(or the electricity goes out and it is
        time to shut down the fire). This type of opperation also did some
        things that helped our furnace. With out the on/off cycling of the
        furnace fan, it would help to maintain a more constant firebox shell
        temp which is probably why the home built unit lasted as long as it
        did. A more constant temp places less stress on the welds.

        When running the lower air flow design, make sure that they overheat
        fan control is able to shut down the incomming air supply damper. I
        am not sure if your spring regulator is connected, but most units now
        days have an interlock which prevents overheating.

        Lastly, for comfort, you may want to add a forced air furnace drum
        humidifier. This will keep the house and furniture from drying out
        too much. Older houses tend to leak moisture, and you have to riase
        the temp to feel warm. By adding the drum humidifier, you can add
        that moisture back without having to fill the humidifier every day.
        the automatic systems work well but you have to remember to turn them
        off at the end of march to prevent having a pool of water near your
        stove when the heat is no longer needed.

        The inside chimney may be too strong for your unit which is why you
        may be going through wood faster than you expect. (Well, it could be
        cold outside.) You may want to add the barometric damper that they
        recommend, if you are still having difficulty with the draft
        control. I think that your best bet is still the inline draft
        control, but a little experimenting could be advantageous. I don't
        like wasting warm basement air, but there is always an exception if
        it works for you.

        Good luck.

        Sam






        --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "MICHAEL MC*EACHRAN" <mikesmold@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Sam thank you very much. I will seal up the seams before
        insulating.The dungeon is very cold the 70's part stays very warm
        because of radiating heat from the stove. The damper on the front of
        the stove is heat spring sensitive and hard to regulate with the
        manual damper. although this is the first week of using it with the
        manual damper.I also am thinking of turnning off one of the fans on
        the stove. Have two now on the stove . (have one on the stove and one
        on the furnace) I have it said to me that volume of 140 deg air is
        better than 160 deg less volume.Opinion please. The chimney is inside
        and 30 feet high. Not sipping wood Mike
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: samiamrd<mailto:taborl@...>
        > To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:36 AM
        > Subject: [woodheat] Re: Daka 521 woodstove
        >
        >
        > Mike,
        >
        > I think that it was said in a previous post but there are a lot
        of
        > parts to the system that may need to be addressed. Lets start
        with
        > the first question: Will insulated duct work help? Sealing and
        > insulating the duct work, in the basement area, will help deliver
        the
        > heat to where it is needed. Heat loss through seams in warm air
        > ducts could be a lot of heat, so doing this will most likely
        help.
        > It will also help distribute the conventional heat. Duct sealant
        can
        > be found in Home depo(any hardware store) and fits your standard
        calk
        > gun, It is easy to cover the joints, and it works just like
        calking
        > your bath tub. The duct sealant needs to be applied while your
        > circulator is off to prevent the warm air from blowing through
        the
        > calking prior to curing. Once the joints are sealed, apply your
        > insulation(R3 to R3 to R6 duct insulation is a good choice). But,
        if
        > you don't seal the joints first, the ducts will keep blowing hot
        air
        > into your insulation and you wont gain efficiency.
        >
        > The damper in the chimney. They don't recommend a barometric
        damper
        > unless if your draft is more than 0.06" water column. This
        usually
        > is not a problem, but if you have a very good draft(from a tall
        > internal chimney) then you may need to install one. They have a
        > recommended range for temperature output, and this may be a time
        to
        > test the temp of the exhaust gas. If the draft is too high, the
        > chimney temp will get too hot. This is an ok way for you to tell
        > without running a draft test. Also, it seems that they have
        designed
        > this unit to supply air to the fire all of the time, except when
        the
        > unit gets too hot. That is a good thing, but it will force you to
        > regulate heat by wood load instead of air supply control like,
        other
        > furnaces of this design. You want air in your firebox to prevent
        > smoldering, this was their attempt to reduce this on/off cycling
        of
        > conventional systems which may help reduce creosote buildup. If
        the
        > exhaust temp is too high, when your inline damper is fully open,
        try
        > to regulate it back to keep the exhaust temp in the range
        specified
        > in the manual. If it is still too high, then a barametric damper
        may
        > be needed(internal chimney may need this). If that happens you
        will
        > have to take the inline damper out and re-run the flue gas heat
        > trials to make sure that you are not too high or too low.
        >
        > The chimney: A clay lined 8 inch chimney is ok. If it is outside
        of
        > the house, you will need to keep it warm, which should work good
        with
        > your furnace airflow design. In our furnace, we kept the fire
        going
        > for most of the winter, which kept our outside chimney warm and
        > maintained the draft. Since your is inside the house, you may
        have
        > too much draft. Since this is your first winter, you should be
        > periodically checking and cleaning the chimney. It takes time to
        get
        > your fuel usage, and burn cycles optimized, which means that you
        > could be experiencing creosote buildup. If you have any buildup,
        > clean the chimney. Once you get use to the schedule, you can just
        > clean it once a month depending on use. Experience helps with the
        > chimney cleaning schedule. I would not line the chimney, with a 6
        > inch liner, unless it there is damage to the clay tile liner.
        Also
        > it seems that you might have too much draft at this time, so
        there
        > would be no need to increase it by lining the chimney.
        >
        > Wood fuel: With your furnace, you need to have very dry wood. Dry
        > wood and a good air supply reduces creosote buildup. If you have
        > time to season the wood for maybe a second summer, then you may
        be
        > able to increase the size of the wood(to 8 inches or so). This
        will
        > help the furnace fire longer with one load, and the right amount
        of
        > air which is automatically supplied by your furnace design. This
        > only works if you have time to really dry the wood. If the wood
        is
        > still wet, then this type of firing technique will greatly
        increase
        > your creosote buildup. Two season wood in various sizes(4-9
        inches)
        > worked well with our furnace.
        >
        > Lastly, what is the heat loss to the basement. Is your basement
        > warm, maybe too warm. You may be loosing a lot of heat to the
        > basement. Again duct sealing and insulation may lower that temp.
        > The other residual heat should keep your basement relatively dry
        but
        > not hot. If it is hot, you need to redirect that heat upstairs.
        >
        > Have a good day,
        >
        > Sam
        >
        > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat%
        40yahoogroups.com>, "MICHAEL MC*EACHRAN" <mikesmold@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Thank you for responding. The house is 76 feet long and the
        first
        > part built in 1940 the second part in 1970. Below zero thru -20
        below
        > I will burn a stove cord in three days. So will insulating the
        duct
        > work help. The stove is on one end of the house because of the
        > chimney. Also it is in the basement. I put a damper on chimney
        coming
        > out of the stove. They don't recommend that. The damper in front
        is
        > spring heat sensitive. Still when shut down a lot heat is going
        up
        > the chimney. The chimney is cement block with 8 inch clay flue
        tile
        > (Looking for opinons please). The wood is seasond oak and hard
        maple.
        > Thank you for your time Mike
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • MICHAEL MC*EACHRAN
        Sam thank you very much. Going to make some of the adjustments you suggested. First seal the seems than insulate the duct work with R3 or R6. That to me will
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 4, 2008
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        • 0 Attachment
          Sam thank you very much. Going to make some of the adjustments you suggested. First seal the seems than insulate the duct work with R3 or R6. That to me will really help as the basement is very cold in the dungeon part. The longest run is in there. Winter in northern MN just won't let go, still in the teens till Sunday Thank you for your time Mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: samiamrd<mailto:taborl@...>
          To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:56 AM
          Subject: [woodheat] Re: Daka 521 woodstove


          The lower air flow is one of the things that we did to our furance.
          We lowered the fan off set value to 90 degrees(Yours is factory set
          here) and lowered the air flow vs the parallel conventional 150 Kbtu
          oil unit. Dad's thinking was that he wanted the fan to run all of
          the time except when the fire goes out. When the circulator stops,
          it is really time to add wood(or the electricity goes out and it is
          time to shut down the fire). This type of opperation also did some
          things that helped our furnace. With out the on/off cycling of the
          furnace fan, it would help to maintain a more constant firebox shell
          temp which is probably why the home built unit lasted as long as it
          did. A more constant temp places less stress on the welds.

          When running the lower air flow design, make sure that they overheat
          fan control is able to shut down the incomming air supply damper. I
          am not sure if your spring regulator is connected, but most units now
          days have an interlock which prevents overheating.

          Lastly, for comfort, you may want to add a forced air furnace drum
          humidifier. This will keep the house and furniture from drying out
          too much. Older houses tend to leak moisture, and you have to riase
          the temp to feel warm. By adding the drum humidifier, you can add
          that moisture back without having to fill the humidifier every day.
          the automatic systems work well but you have to remember to turn them
          off at the end of march to prevent having a pool of water near your
          stove when the heat is no longer needed.

          The inside chimney may be too strong for your unit which is why you
          may be going through wood faster than you expect. (Well, it could be
          cold outside.) You may want to add the barometric damper that they
          recommend, if you are still having difficulty with the draft
          control. I think that your best bet is still the inline draft
          control, but a little experimenting could be advantageous. I don't
          like wasting warm basement air, but there is always an exception if
          it works for you.

          Good luck.

          Sam

          --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat%40yahoogroups.com>, "MICHAEL MC*EACHRAN" <mikesmold@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Sam thank you very much. I will seal up the seams before
          insulating.The dungeon is very cold the 70's part stays very warm
          because of radiating heat from the stove. The damper on the front of
          the stove is heat spring sensitive and hard to regulate with the
          manual damper. although this is the first week of using it with the
          manual damper.I also am thinking of turnning off one of the fans on
          the stove. Have two now on the stove . (have one on the stove and one
          on the furnace) I have it said to me that volume of 140 deg air is
          better than 160 deg less volume.Opinion please. The chimney is inside
          and 30 feet high. Not sipping wood Mike
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: samiamrd<mailto:taborl@...>
          > To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat%40yahoogroups.com>>
          > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:36 AM
          > Subject: [woodheat] Re: Daka 521 woodstove
          >
          >
          > Mike,
          >
          > I think that it was said in a previous post but there are a lot
          of
          > parts to the system that may need to be addressed. Lets start
          with
          > the first question: Will insulated duct work help? Sealing and
          > insulating the duct work, in the basement area, will help deliver
          the
          > heat to where it is needed. Heat loss through seams in warm air
          > ducts could be a lot of heat, so doing this will most likely
          help.
          > It will also help distribute the conventional heat. Duct sealant
          can
          > be found in Home depo(any hardware store) and fits your standard
          calk
          > gun, It is easy to cover the joints, and it works just like
          calking
          > your bath tub. The duct sealant needs to be applied while your
          > circulator is off to prevent the warm air from blowing through
          the
          > calking prior to curing. Once the joints are sealed, apply your
          > insulation(R3 to R3 to R6 duct insulation is a good choice). But,
          if
          > you don't seal the joints first, the ducts will keep blowing hot
          air
          > into your insulation and you wont gain efficiency.
          >
          > The damper in the chimney. They don't recommend a barometric
          damper
          > unless if your draft is more than 0.06" water column. This
          usually
          > is not a problem, but if you have a very good draft(from a tall
          > internal chimney) then you may need to install one. They have a
          > recommended range for temperature output, and this may be a time
          to
          > test the temp of the exhaust gas. If the draft is too high, the
          > chimney temp will get too hot. This is an ok way for you to tell
          > without running a draft test. Also, it seems that they have
          designed
          > this unit to supply air to the fire all of the time, except when
          the
          > unit gets too hot. That is a good thing, but it will force you to
          > regulate heat by wood load instead of air supply control like,
          other
          > furnaces of this design. You want air in your firebox to prevent
          > smoldering, this was their attempt to reduce this on/off cycling
          of
          > conventional systems which may help reduce creosote buildup. If
          the
          > exhaust temp is too high, when your inline damper is fully open,
          try
          > to regulate it back to keep the exhaust temp in the range
          specified
          > in the manual. If it is still too high, then a barametric damper
          may
          > be needed(internal chimney may need this). If that happens you
          will
          > have to take the inline damper out and re-run the flue gas heat
          > trials to make sure that you are not too high or too low.
          >
          > The chimney: A clay lined 8 inch chimney is ok. If it is outside
          of
          > the house, you will need to keep it warm, which should work good
          with
          > your furnace airflow design. In our furnace, we kept the fire
          going
          > for most of the winter, which kept our outside chimney warm and
          > maintained the draft. Since your is inside the house, you may
          have
          > too much draft. Since this is your first winter, you should be
          > periodically checking and cleaning the chimney. It takes time to
          get
          > your fuel usage, and burn cycles optimized, which means that you
          > could be experiencing creosote buildup. If you have any buildup,
          > clean the chimney. Once you get use to the schedule, you can just
          > clean it once a month depending on use. Experience helps with the
          > chimney cleaning schedule. I would not line the chimney, with a 6
          > inch liner, unless it there is damage to the clay tile liner.
          Also
          > it seems that you might have too much draft at this time, so
          there
          > would be no need to increase it by lining the chimney.
          >
          > Wood fuel: With your furnace, you need to have very dry wood. Dry
          > wood and a good air supply reduces creosote buildup. If you have
          > time to season the wood for maybe a second summer, then you may
          be
          > able to increase the size of the wood(to 8 inches or so). This
          will
          > help the furnace fire longer with one load, and the right amount
          of
          > air which is automatically supplied by your furnace design. This
          > only works if you have time to really dry the wood. If the wood
          is
          > still wet, then this type of firing technique will greatly
          increase
          > your creosote buildup. Two season wood in various sizes(4-9
          inches)
          > worked well with our furnace.
          >
          > Lastly, what is the heat loss to the basement. Is your basement
          > warm, maybe too warm. You may be loosing a lot of heat to the
          > basement. Again duct sealing and insulation may lower that temp.
          > The other residual heat should keep your basement relatively dry
          but
          > not hot. If it is hot, you need to redirect that heat upstairs.
          >
          > Have a good day,
          >
          > Sam
          >
          > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:woodheat%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:woodheat%
          40yahoogroups.com>, "MICHAEL MC*EACHRAN" <mikesmold@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Thank you for responding. The house is 76 feet long and the
          first
          > part built in 1940 the second part in 1970. Below zero thru -20
          below
          > I will burn a stove cord in three days. So will insulating the
          duct
          > work help. The stove is on one end of the house because of the
          > chimney. Also it is in the basement. I put a damper on chimney
          coming
          > out of the stove. They don't recommend that. The damper in front
          is
          > spring heat sensitive. Still when shut down a lot heat is going
          up
          > the chimney. The chimney is cement block with 8 inch clay flue
          tile
          > (Looking for opinons please). The wood is seasond oak and hard
          maple.
          > Thank you for your time Mike
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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