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Re: at 30 btu /sq ft, its doing a good job.

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  • pilot11ams
    I basically do the same thing with my 4000 sq ft 110 year old house in the cold climate of Northern Minnesota. It is not practical to try and install and heat
    Message 1 of 33 , Mar 1, 2006
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      I basically do the same thing with my 4000 sq ft 110 year old house in
      the cold climate of Northern Minnesota. It is not practical to try and
      install and heat the home with a woodstove, but I have cut my oil
      usage in half by installing a quadrafire wood pellet stove. The oil
      furnace runs at night, and the pellet stove most of the day. The
      pellet stove has the ability to heat most of the first floor, which is
      where about 80% of the day to day living occurs anyway so its perfect.
      The cost to purchase and install the stove were less than the wood
      counterpart, its simple to operate and uses a thermostat start and
      stop, and it's a far cleaner fuel than wood for my house.

      My cabin I heat with wood almost exclusively, but with a big home like
      your describing providing a good, easy to install and operate, clean
      source of heat to maintain the main "living" areas of your house might
      be the best strategy. Its worked for me and made a significant impact
      on my heating costs while giving me the comfort I was looking for.

      Andrew


      "eringer2000_53188" wrote:
      >
      > Affirmitive on the big windows. Lots of them on the west side of the
      > house & we only got double paned because $ were becoming tight
      > during the design process. We did get triple paned in the master
      > bath & sun room & they are far superior judging by condensation on
      > cold mornings.
      > I may have to look into that warm spouse program.
      >
      > Steve
      >
      >
      >
    • gary
      ps the catalytic stove ratings are reduced to reflect an average over the life (and death) of the cat. My use of this stove has been limited, I just installed
      Message 33 of 33 , Mar 1, 2006
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        ps the catalytic stove ratings are reduced to reflect an average over the
        life (and death) of the cat. My use of this stove has been limited, I just
        installed it this winter. Nice to work inside near a wood stove in
        December. I bought the stove used out of an ad in the paper. New house
        owners wanted nothing to do with burning wood and wanted it to go to a good
        home. It is better than ten years old but the fire box was in great shape
        and by watching the chimney it appears the cats are working good. I have no
        way of knowing if they had been replaced previously. I have not put in a
        probe to check the cat temp but will watch ebay for a good price on one. I
        did see a discussion about premature cat failure due to flame inpingement in
        Opels but so far I have not had that problem. Probably people overstuffing
        it to get that promised long burn. The large size of the doors and lack of
        a top latch does tend to make a consistant tight seal hard to acheive. As
        long as the box isn't stuffed That isn't an issue. I had one night wqhne a
        full box of some especially dry wood got her really going. My high vents
        got pretty warm but it burned down uneventfully. My couch is close to the
        fireplace so night feeding is pretty easy! Stoke it, snooze on the couch for
        a few minutes, reduce the air and back to bed.


        Gary Are you happy with the cat unit? After all the negative
        comments on this group about cats and the cost of replacement I would
        be reluctant to get one. Why would the non cat unit be rated at 2.8
        grams/hour and the cat unit @ 3.7 grams/hour?
        Thanks Stewart

        --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <buildersupply@...> wrote:
        >
        > The stove I am using is a fine Canadian product from
        > Industrial Chimney Company / RSF Energy
        > 400 J.F.Kennedy
        > St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
        > J7Y 4C7
        > Tel: (450) 565-6336 Fax: (450) 565-6519
        > http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/fireplaces/foyer_opel.asp
        >
        >
        > All RSF models come equipped to accept a 4" outside air duct, a 5"
        can also
        > be used. All models can also be installed to operate using room air.
        >
        > The Opel is an EPA certified catalytic appliance certified @ 3.7
        grams/hour
        > when the optional catalytic combustor (part #FDCCO) is installed. The
        > non-catalytic Opel is EPA exempt because of the burn rate, but has been
        > certified to by an independent lab to meet EPA standards with a rate
        of 2.8
        > grams/hour.
        >
        > I have an older Opel 2000 model. Overall I am happy with this stove. My
        > comments pertain to the older model since I haven't used a new one.
        Take
        > the all night burn with a grain of salt. If the air intake is open
        enough
        > for a decent (clean) burn figure about 5 hours, although proper coal
        raking,
        > larger wood sizes, and tight stacking can stretch it. It is
        catalyst and
        > this has been my first experience with a cat stove. I am on my
        first year
        > of heating with it and no doubt will be smarter next year. It has a
        lower
        > fan circulated air intake and front circ air exit. It also has
        provisions
        > for 1 or 2 vents on the top that can be run to other rooms or your
        furnace
        > ducts either with or without duct fans. I (being me) did it a little
        > different in that I built a completely masonry and steel enclosure
        with exit
        > vents up at the ceiling so the fan driven air exits both directly to the
        > room and up into the hollow masonry stack. This warms the stack
        during the
        > meat of the fire and the stack slowly returns warm air to the house all
        > night. I was very careful to put a layer of masonry board separated by a
        > ventilated 1"air space between the heated stack and any combustible
        wall.
        > The only fault with the firebox is that I feel that the doors are
        somewhat
        > tall and unless you are careful to open them slowly smoke will roll out.
        > After a short learning period I have found that the door glass stays
        clean
        > for weeks at a time. The stove calls for a 7" class A but my local
        sources
        > only had 8"so I went with that. It may have cost me a little draft
        strength
        > but that is only a guess. I have been monitoring the top vent temps
        and they
        > can blow up to 150F after a hot fire has been going for a while.
        With more
        > moderate burns they run 110 to 130F and will still be at 90 to 95 in the
        > morning. I have a picture of the unit on the web site. I am using the
        > outside air. So far I'm happy with that decision. My previous stove
        was a
        > Vermont Castings Resolute and I think this has been an improvement
        for me.
        > I do like the finished look of the stone and like to see the flames too.
        > Probably the biggest downside is that a stove in the basement
        provides more
        > even heating through out the house. But my bedrooms are up half a
        floor and
        > the heat goes up the hallway to them just fine. So far the basement
        has not
        > gotten cold enough to freeze plumbing. I also have the central heat
        > thermostat in the greatroom where the fireplace is located and use the
        > cooling setting to turn on the furnace fan the when the greatroom
        gets over
        > 72 degrees evening out the temps in the house. I am calling my wood
        use by
        > the full 4 x 4 x 8' cord and I think most of the others are also.
        >
        >
        >
        > Gary Goetz
        > S5579 SR 113
        > Baraboo WI 53913
        > <mailto:goetz@...> goetz@...
        > 608-356-7159
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: woodheat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:woodheat@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf
        > Of stewabbey
        > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:08 PM
        > To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [woodheat] Re: Now: How do you burn less than 2 cords
        >
        >
        > Gary
        > I'm curious about your zero clearance fireplace. Very few people in
        > the group seem to have EPA fireplaces. I'm planning on installing an
        > EPA cert. one in my new house, also with masonry surrounding it for
        > the look and the thermal mass. What type is yours? Are you happy with
        > it? and do you find the masonry actually heats up?
        > I was wondering if it would heat up because the unit is zero clearance.
        >
        > BTW I burn 8 face cords (are you guys burning 2 cords talking face
        > cords or full cords?) per season and 250 gal oil running the stove
        > every evening and when the temp is below about 20F I burn it overnight
        > and during the day. My house is 2000sq. ft. 1963 with upgraded
        > insulation. In the Montreal area. I find if I use the stove when it is
        > warmer than 30F the house gets too warm and the wood is wasted, better
        > just to use oil for the little it takes in those temps.
        > I don't know how you folks in the warmer regions can burn your stove
        > 24/7 without overheating. My stove is sized right for the house
        > because it can barely keep up when the outside temp get to -10F and
        > -20F, which is only a few days a year.
        > Stewart
        >
        > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <buildersupply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > How big's your house? How well insulated, how good are the windows?
        > I am
        > > heating 1300' in Wisconsin 100% wood on about 4 cords using an
        > airtight zero
        > > clearance fireplace. I built about 1/2 ton of masonary around it
        which
        > > helps me hold heat. I am firing as needed since I am around the
        > house. At
        > > night on a cold night i feed at 10 pm and 2-3 AM house is still at
        > 68 at 6
        > > AM when I send my wife off to work. Fire will be down to coals but the
        > > outlet air temp high in the fireplace is still above 90F. I have an
        > outside
        > > combustion air inlet and I would like to be able to have that shut
        down
        > > after the fire dies because I think it really cools the stove fast
        > when the
        > > fire is near out. That is the part of a thermostatic air controll I
        > don't
        > > like, it goes to wide open after the fire dies, which I feel
        > encourages air
        > > circulation up the chimney till the whole thing is cold..
        > >
        > >
        > > Gary WI
        > >
        > > I'm curious how you guys get away with less than 2 cords a year.
        > I've had a
        > > very mild winter here in OH, but I'm still going through about 6
        cords,
        > > burning 24 / 7. Is it that you don't always burn or ???.. I'm
        > thinking 8
        > > cords for a hard winter November - March. Maybe my stove is just
        > not that
        > > efficient. It's an older insert non EPA, it is loaded maybe 4 to 5
        > times a
        > > day. It is large so it takes about 8 or 9 logs to fill it (4"x18"
        > logs).
        > > Am I doing something wrong?
        > >
        > > Thanks!
        > > Chad
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > samiamrd <taborl@> wrote:
        > > Your wood usage is about on par with mine here in NY. Last year I
        > > had 1.5 cords and ran out on March 15. The wood supplementation at
        > > night and weekends wiped out 43% of my NG usage. After last year, I
        > > uppped my collection to 2.5 cords with an expected .5 cords
        > > remaining. This year was not a normal year for our location. We
        > > had 20 days in January at or above 50 degrees. Wood consumption is
        > > down because I dont run the stove until it hits 40 degrees. This
        > > year with the upgrade of the main NG condensing furnace with
        > > varriable burn and infinite drive fan system, we were able to drop
        > > the ng usage to about 30% of the original usage with an average
        > > house temp increase of 4 degrees(avg 72). Not bad.
        > >
        > > As for movement of wood, I end up placing all of the wood in the
        > > trunk and back seat of the 95 saturn(the old car). A trailer would
        > > be nice and I think that if we had the right car, it would make a
        > > good addition. The movement of the wood around the property is done
        > > with a standard large wheel barrow. The one wheel does create a
        > > challange when it is stacked high. The next thing that I will get
        > > is the Sam's metal 4 wheel garden cart or the two wheel garden cart
        > > (build yourself model). That would increase the amount than can be
        > > made with one trip. One wheel barrow will go for 4 days in the
        > > Avalon renier insert.
        > >
        > > The electricity usage is down but it could be less if I had a free
        > > standing wood stove. Having an insert almost dictates that you need
        > > the fan to get the heat away from the fireplace. Not the best
        > > situation but still one that is much better than full central
        > > furnace and you can really raise bread on the hearth.
        > >
        > > Sam
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "eringer2000_53188"
        > > <albogrease@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > After my first couple months burning wood in earnest, I am
        > > pondering
        > > > getting some sort of wheeled cart to bring the wood in from my
        > > stack
        > > > in the attached garage. Multiple loads with the canvas sling each
        > > > day is getting rather old! On weekends I'm making maybe 4 trips
        > > each
        > > > day, about 6-7 pieces each trip. Feels like 40-50 pounds each time!
        > > >
        > > > Have been thinking about buying a trailer & you folks give me more
        > > > reasons to do so! We live very near the Kettle Moraine state park
        > > > here in Wisconsin & theres lots of fallen wood I can see from my
        > > car
        > > > on the drive home from work. Can't imagine how much there must be
        > > > lieing around the actual forest! I'll be enquiring about buying a
        > > > permit from the DNR this spring.
        > > >
        > > > I was involved in the maul discussion. I'm getting quite
        > > profecient
        > > > at splitting, well over 50% of my strikes split the target wood
        > > now!
        > > > Its a great feeling when that wood splits clean down the middle. I
        > > > also learned not to push it when the wood won't split, I just set
        > > > those pieces aside for overnight burn & go on to the next. Haven't
        > > > been wasting anything either! I pick up the scraps & shards of
        > > wood
        > > > to use as kinding to start my fires during the week.
        > > >
        > > > My first 2 energy bills have been drastically lower, last month it
        > > > was $114 for a 2400 sq foot house! We're using aboiut 25% of the
        > > gas
        > > > we did same time last year & even the electricity usage is down
        > > > around 10%!!!! Well within my target of reducing our usage by
        > > 33%.
        > > > Running low on wood now,only had about 1 1/2 cords at the start of
        > > > the year. Will have to get in at least 2 cords next season & think
        > > I
        > > > can manage that from local wood fall, it just takes some effort on
        > > > my part. i actually enjoy getting out there in the cold &
        > > splitting
        > > > & moving wood from the main pile to my staging rack in the garage!
        > > > Put the radio on & listen to my favorite R&R oldies station!
        > > >
        > > > Love my Lopi Freedom insert, it works great. The tips on sucessful
        > > > burning have been very helpful. Over the past 2 months I have
        > > > learned how to get a good fire started, how to max the fire out to
        > > > get the fan blowing, how to maximize an overnite burn etc.
        > > >
        > > > This mailing list has been so helpful. Also the woodheat.org
        > > > website. Thanks to everyone for all the helpful hints & advice,
        > > both
        > > > directly from e-mails & on this list. It feels real good to open
        > > > those energy bills now & know I have some control & not big
        > > > energy!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Steve
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > The Greatest Rock & Roll of the Twentieth Century!!!
        > > >
        > > > http://www.live365.com/stations/albo60s
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, Keith McHugh <keithmchugh@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Gary,
        > > > > Great idea's on splitting wood! Wow - that is the hardcore
        > > method
        > > > for
        > > > > splitting wood! How much wood do you split a year?? I use a
        > > > homemade
        > > > > wood splitter - but I still have the problems of bending over
        > > > lifting
        > > > > the wood. I wear a back support for heavy lifting - that seems
        > > to
        > > > help
        > > > > during splitting and moving wood - especially when lifting heavy
        > > > pieces.
        > > > >
        > > > > When I split wood - I try to back a trailer with my tractor
        > > right
        > > > next
        > > > > to the wood splitter - as soon as the wood is split - I throw it
        > > > on the
        > > > > trailer to be moved over to the wood pile - this way I do not
        > > have
        > > > to
        > > > > pick the wood up again - it is at waist level on the trailer -
        > > > makes it
        > > > > easier to grab the wood - I can put 1 cord of wood on the
        > > trailer
        > > > in a
        > > > > pile - it is a pretty big trailer. I have tried to streamline
        > > the
        > > > > process - but I think that no matter what method you use - you
        > > are
        > > > > always bending over picking up the wood.
        > > > >
        > > > > How do you haul your wood?? I use a "Wood Chuck" dolly that has
        > > > 20"
        > > > > tires on it. I can stack about 200 - 300lbs of wood on the
        > > > dolly. I
        > > > > can easily roll it from my 5-6 cord wood stack upto my house -
        > > > > approximately a 75 feet. Then go down 6 stairs (which is not to
        > > > bad to
        > > > > navigate) with it into the basement where my woodstove is. I
        > > keep
        > > > the
        > > > > wood about 6 feet away from the stove. I usually get a load per
        > > > day if
        > > > > it is really cold or snowing out. If we have a nor easter
        > > winter
        > > > storm
        > > > > I bring a few loads in to handle the storm.
        > > > >
        > > > > For my fireplace - I have a small wood stack ( last about 4
        > > days)
        > > > right
        > > > > outside my front door - so I just use the tractor with the front
        > > > end
        > > > > loader to get the wood to that stack - I always use tractor
        > > > hydraulics
        > > > > when I can in moving the wood - try to save the back. But I
        > > still
        > > > have
        > > > > to bend over to pickup the wood from the bottom of the wood
        > > stack
        > > > to put
        > > > > it in the front end loader. I hear your concerns on bending
        > > over
        > > > to
        > > > > move wood.
        > > > >
        > > > > I guess I was looking to get the best ideas on hauling, moving,
        > > > and
        > > > > storing your wood.
        > > > >
        > > > > Keith
        > > > >
        > > > > For my fireplace - I have a wood thormole2004 wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > A while back there was quite a discussion by those of us who
        > > > split
        > > > > > wood with a maul. I've been heating solely with wood for 24
        > > > years,
        > > > > > cutting, hauling, and splitting what I've needed from my land.
        > > A
        > > > > > chainsaw, wheelbarrow, and maul are my main tools. As I've
        > > gotten
        > > > > > older the constant bending to pick up split wood was getting
        > > to
        > > > my
        > > > > > back. I found a way to utlilze some old tires which does make
        > > > the job
        > > > > > a bit easier.
        > > > > > My splitting block is a 16" diameter round 20" high piece of
        > > > knot
        > > > > > filled beech placed on the ground to split on. I've stacked
        > > four
        > > > old
        > > > > > car tires on top of each other around the splitting block so
        > > the
        > > > > > tires come up about a foot above the splitting block. The wood
        > > > to be
        > > > > > split sits on the block surrounded by the tires. After the
        > > wood
        > > > is
        > > > > > struck, the tires keep the split pieces of wood on the block
        > > and
        > > > high
        > > > > > enough to reach without bending over. They also work to lean
        > > > uneven
        > > > > > wood against and help to catch any stray maul strikes,
        > > > preventing the
        > > > > > maul head from coming close to feet and legs. In order to keep
        > > > the
        > > > > > tires in place during splitting I tie three legnths of rope
        > > > aound all
        > > > > > four tires. It saves a lot of bending and actually makes the
        > > > jobs a
        > > > > > lot faster.
        > > > > > This may be a common form of splitting, but I haven't seen it
        > > > > > discussed, so thought I'd offer it up. I enjoy the site and am
        > > > always
        > > > > > finding something to learn.
        > > > > > Gary
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
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        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
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        > Check THE woodheat web site at http://www.woodheat.org
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        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
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        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=AuhZgOYMldTkpxWb8UBoYg> heat Conservation
        >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
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        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > on&w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=RHf_qWBteuyLtCiMTCFn9g> Woodheat
        >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
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        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > 3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=IhVSqlIkTv_atui0s225Qw>
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        > _____
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        > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=AuhZgOYMldTkpxWb8UBoYg> heat Conservation
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
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        > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        on&w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=RHf_qWBteuyLtCiMTCFn9g> Woodheat
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        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
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        SPONSORED LINKS
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        w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=AuhZgOYMldTkpxWb8UBoYg> heat Conservation
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        on&w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=RHf_qWBteuyLtCiMTCFn9g> Woodheat
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
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        * Visit your group "woodheat <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodheat>
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