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Re: at 30 btu /sq ft, its doing a good job.

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  • eringer2000_53188
    Affirmitive on the big windows. Lots of them on the west side of the house & we only got double paned because $ were becoming tight during the design process.
    Message 1 of 33 , Feb 28, 2006
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      Affirmitive on the big windows. Lots of them on the west side of the
      house & we only got double paned because $ were becoming tight
      during the design process. We did get triple paned in the master
      bath & sun room & they are far superior judging by condensation on
      cold mornings.
      I may have to look into that warm spouse program.

      Steve



      --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "samiamrd" <taborl@...> wrote:
      >
      > I agree, At a max output of 73 K btu, which would be rare, you
      can
      > deliver about 30 btu/foot. If you had 8 foot ceilings, it might
      > work, but with vaulted ceilings, and probably a lot of nice
      windows,
      > it is a big job for the unit. You probably are not firing at full
      > output to deliver 5-6 hours of burn and there is probably some
      loss
      > to the enclosure. The 12 hours burn would be on a very low
      setting
      > resulting in a durty glass in the morning but it will not deliver
      30
      > btu/sq foot at that rate. With my renier, I can slow down the
      burn
      > to get 6-8 hours with only coals left, but that is not delivering
      the
      > max rate for the stove.
      >
      > Given your setup, It might be best to deliver the heat that
      reduced
      > oil/gas usage, but not try for total replacement. By setting your
      > programable thermostat, you could reduce usage by setting at 68
      while
      > your home and firing the stove with a lot of air, and when you
      leave,
      > turn down the thermostat with a set back on the wood stove air
      > supply. This will keep your house livable warm, while your out so
      > that the central furnace does not need to come on for 6 or 7
      hours.
      > If done right, you could have the furnace slightly warm the house
      > before you get home, then fire up the wood stove to pick up the
      > slack. At my house, I call it the warm spouse program. It has
      been
      > highly effective this year.
      >
      > Sam
      >
      >
      > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "John Gulland" <john@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Steve wrote:
      > > > I am having problems getting long overnight
      > > > burns. My best is around
      > > > 5 hours no matter how I try to stuff the burn
      > > > box. According to my
      > > > brocure, the max burn time on my model is 12
      > > > hours! For a flush
      > > > mount install it is rated for only 2000 sq feet
      > > > max. I have 2400
      > > > with a vaulted ceiling & other rooms with non
      > > > standard ceilings
      > > > around the house. Could this be why I am getting
      > > > such short burns?
      > >
      > > A couple of things. First, the 12 hour burn claim is highly
      > > misleading. I think your manufacturer set up unrealistic
      > > expectations by promoting an extreme burn time that you
      > > could only get under very specific conditions.
      > >
      > > I just had an experience last night that illustrates the
      > > issue. Most of my firewood is poplar for spring and fall and
      > > white birch for cold weather. I also cut the pieces short at
      > > 14" so I can put them in the firebox either east-west or
      > > north-south for flexible stoking. But I had some hard maple
      > > left over from a purchase a few years ago and the pieces
      > > were big and quite long at around 18". So last night I
      > > filled the firebox REALLY full of this big long wood -- it
      > > took up all the space in the firebox. It was a cold night
      > > at -20C (-2F) and I woke up to a warm house and lots of
      > > coals left over.
      > >
      > > On one hand it was nice to wake up to a warm house, but I
      > > wouldn't want to put up with wood that large and heavy and
      > > have no loading flexibility for a whole winter. Unless you
      > > are willing to only use the heavy artillary firewood full
      > > time (super hard and long pieces that just barely fit in the
      > > firebox), it is unrealistic to expect more than an 8 hour
      > > burn, of which no more than four hours is flaming
      > > combustion.
      > >
      > > Second, your house is right at the upper end of the size
      > > range that can be heated with a single wood stove,
      > > regardless of its size. Sounds to me like you are doing very
      > > well under the circumstances.
      > > John
      > >
      >
    • gary
      ps the catalytic stove ratings are reduced to reflect an average over the life (and death) of the cat. My use of this stove has been limited, I just installed
      Message 33 of 33 , Mar 1, 2006
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        ps the catalytic stove ratings are reduced to reflect an average over the
        life (and death) of the cat. My use of this stove has been limited, I just
        installed it this winter. Nice to work inside near a wood stove in
        December. I bought the stove used out of an ad in the paper. New house
        owners wanted nothing to do with burning wood and wanted it to go to a good
        home. It is better than ten years old but the fire box was in great shape
        and by watching the chimney it appears the cats are working good. I have no
        way of knowing if they had been replaced previously. I have not put in a
        probe to check the cat temp but will watch ebay for a good price on one. I
        did see a discussion about premature cat failure due to flame inpingement in
        Opels but so far I have not had that problem. Probably people overstuffing
        it to get that promised long burn. The large size of the doors and lack of
        a top latch does tend to make a consistant tight seal hard to acheive. As
        long as the box isn't stuffed That isn't an issue. I had one night wqhne a
        full box of some especially dry wood got her really going. My high vents
        got pretty warm but it burned down uneventfully. My couch is close to the
        fireplace so night feeding is pretty easy! Stoke it, snooze on the couch for
        a few minutes, reduce the air and back to bed.


        Gary Are you happy with the cat unit? After all the negative
        comments on this group about cats and the cost of replacement I would
        be reluctant to get one. Why would the non cat unit be rated at 2.8
        grams/hour and the cat unit @ 3.7 grams/hour?
        Thanks Stewart

        --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <buildersupply@...> wrote:
        >
        > The stove I am using is a fine Canadian product from
        > Industrial Chimney Company / RSF Energy
        > 400 J.F.Kennedy
        > St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
        > J7Y 4C7
        > Tel: (450) 565-6336 Fax: (450) 565-6519
        > http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/fireplaces/foyer_opel.asp
        >
        >
        > All RSF models come equipped to accept a 4" outside air duct, a 5"
        can also
        > be used. All models can also be installed to operate using room air.
        >
        > The Opel is an EPA certified catalytic appliance certified @ 3.7
        grams/hour
        > when the optional catalytic combustor (part #FDCCO) is installed. The
        > non-catalytic Opel is EPA exempt because of the burn rate, but has been
        > certified to by an independent lab to meet EPA standards with a rate
        of 2.8
        > grams/hour.
        >
        > I have an older Opel 2000 model. Overall I am happy with this stove. My
        > comments pertain to the older model since I haven't used a new one.
        Take
        > the all night burn with a grain of salt. If the air intake is open
        enough
        > for a decent (clean) burn figure about 5 hours, although proper coal
        raking,
        > larger wood sizes, and tight stacking can stretch it. It is
        catalyst and
        > this has been my first experience with a cat stove. I am on my
        first year
        > of heating with it and no doubt will be smarter next year. It has a
        lower
        > fan circulated air intake and front circ air exit. It also has
        provisions
        > for 1 or 2 vents on the top that can be run to other rooms or your
        furnace
        > ducts either with or without duct fans. I (being me) did it a little
        > different in that I built a completely masonry and steel enclosure
        with exit
        > vents up at the ceiling so the fan driven air exits both directly to the
        > room and up into the hollow masonry stack. This warms the stack
        during the
        > meat of the fire and the stack slowly returns warm air to the house all
        > night. I was very careful to put a layer of masonry board separated by a
        > ventilated 1"air space between the heated stack and any combustible
        wall.
        > The only fault with the firebox is that I feel that the doors are
        somewhat
        > tall and unless you are careful to open them slowly smoke will roll out.
        > After a short learning period I have found that the door glass stays
        clean
        > for weeks at a time. The stove calls for a 7" class A but my local
        sources
        > only had 8"so I went with that. It may have cost me a little draft
        strength
        > but that is only a guess. I have been monitoring the top vent temps
        and they
        > can blow up to 150F after a hot fire has been going for a while.
        With more
        > moderate burns they run 110 to 130F and will still be at 90 to 95 in the
        > morning. I have a picture of the unit on the web site. I am using the
        > outside air. So far I'm happy with that decision. My previous stove
        was a
        > Vermont Castings Resolute and I think this has been an improvement
        for me.
        > I do like the finished look of the stone and like to see the flames too.
        > Probably the biggest downside is that a stove in the basement
        provides more
        > even heating through out the house. But my bedrooms are up half a
        floor and
        > the heat goes up the hallway to them just fine. So far the basement
        has not
        > gotten cold enough to freeze plumbing. I also have the central heat
        > thermostat in the greatroom where the fireplace is located and use the
        > cooling setting to turn on the furnace fan the when the greatroom
        gets over
        > 72 degrees evening out the temps in the house. I am calling my wood
        use by
        > the full 4 x 4 x 8' cord and I think most of the others are also.
        >
        >
        >
        > Gary Goetz
        > S5579 SR 113
        > Baraboo WI 53913
        > <mailto:goetz@...> goetz@...
        > 608-356-7159
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: woodheat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:woodheat@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf
        > Of stewabbey
        > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:08 PM
        > To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [woodheat] Re: Now: How do you burn less than 2 cords
        >
        >
        > Gary
        > I'm curious about your zero clearance fireplace. Very few people in
        > the group seem to have EPA fireplaces. I'm planning on installing an
        > EPA cert. one in my new house, also with masonry surrounding it for
        > the look and the thermal mass. What type is yours? Are you happy with
        > it? and do you find the masonry actually heats up?
        > I was wondering if it would heat up because the unit is zero clearance.
        >
        > BTW I burn 8 face cords (are you guys burning 2 cords talking face
        > cords or full cords?) per season and 250 gal oil running the stove
        > every evening and when the temp is below about 20F I burn it overnight
        > and during the day. My house is 2000sq. ft. 1963 with upgraded
        > insulation. In the Montreal area. I find if I use the stove when it is
        > warmer than 30F the house gets too warm and the wood is wasted, better
        > just to use oil for the little it takes in those temps.
        > I don't know how you folks in the warmer regions can burn your stove
        > 24/7 without overheating. My stove is sized right for the house
        > because it can barely keep up when the outside temp get to -10F and
        > -20F, which is only a few days a year.
        > Stewart
        >
        > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <buildersupply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > How big's your house? How well insulated, how good are the windows?
        > I am
        > > heating 1300' in Wisconsin 100% wood on about 4 cords using an
        > airtight zero
        > > clearance fireplace. I built about 1/2 ton of masonary around it
        which
        > > helps me hold heat. I am firing as needed since I am around the
        > house. At
        > > night on a cold night i feed at 10 pm and 2-3 AM house is still at
        > 68 at 6
        > > AM when I send my wife off to work. Fire will be down to coals but the
        > > outlet air temp high in the fireplace is still above 90F. I have an
        > outside
        > > combustion air inlet and I would like to be able to have that shut
        down
        > > after the fire dies because I think it really cools the stove fast
        > when the
        > > fire is near out. That is the part of a thermostatic air controll I
        > don't
        > > like, it goes to wide open after the fire dies, which I feel
        > encourages air
        > > circulation up the chimney till the whole thing is cold..
        > >
        > >
        > > Gary WI
        > >
        > > I'm curious how you guys get away with less than 2 cords a year.
        > I've had a
        > > very mild winter here in OH, but I'm still going through about 6
        cords,
        > > burning 24 / 7. Is it that you don't always burn or ???.. I'm
        > thinking 8
        > > cords for a hard winter November - March. Maybe my stove is just
        > not that
        > > efficient. It's an older insert non EPA, it is loaded maybe 4 to 5
        > times a
        > > day. It is large so it takes about 8 or 9 logs to fill it (4"x18"
        > logs).
        > > Am I doing something wrong?
        > >
        > > Thanks!
        > > Chad
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > samiamrd <taborl@> wrote:
        > > Your wood usage is about on par with mine here in NY. Last year I
        > > had 1.5 cords and ran out on March 15. The wood supplementation at
        > > night and weekends wiped out 43% of my NG usage. After last year, I
        > > uppped my collection to 2.5 cords with an expected .5 cords
        > > remaining. This year was not a normal year for our location. We
        > > had 20 days in January at or above 50 degrees. Wood consumption is
        > > down because I dont run the stove until it hits 40 degrees. This
        > > year with the upgrade of the main NG condensing furnace with
        > > varriable burn and infinite drive fan system, we were able to drop
        > > the ng usage to about 30% of the original usage with an average
        > > house temp increase of 4 degrees(avg 72). Not bad.
        > >
        > > As for movement of wood, I end up placing all of the wood in the
        > > trunk and back seat of the 95 saturn(the old car). A trailer would
        > > be nice and I think that if we had the right car, it would make a
        > > good addition. The movement of the wood around the property is done
        > > with a standard large wheel barrow. The one wheel does create a
        > > challange when it is stacked high. The next thing that I will get
        > > is the Sam's metal 4 wheel garden cart or the two wheel garden cart
        > > (build yourself model). That would increase the amount than can be
        > > made with one trip. One wheel barrow will go for 4 days in the
        > > Avalon renier insert.
        > >
        > > The electricity usage is down but it could be less if I had a free
        > > standing wood stove. Having an insert almost dictates that you need
        > > the fan to get the heat away from the fireplace. Not the best
        > > situation but still one that is much better than full central
        > > furnace and you can really raise bread on the hearth.
        > >
        > > Sam
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "eringer2000_53188"
        > > <albogrease@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > After my first couple months burning wood in earnest, I am
        > > pondering
        > > > getting some sort of wheeled cart to bring the wood in from my
        > > stack
        > > > in the attached garage. Multiple loads with the canvas sling each
        > > > day is getting rather old! On weekends I'm making maybe 4 trips
        > > each
        > > > day, about 6-7 pieces each trip. Feels like 40-50 pounds each time!
        > > >
        > > > Have been thinking about buying a trailer & you folks give me more
        > > > reasons to do so! We live very near the Kettle Moraine state park
        > > > here in Wisconsin & theres lots of fallen wood I can see from my
        > > car
        > > > on the drive home from work. Can't imagine how much there must be
        > > > lieing around the actual forest! I'll be enquiring about buying a
        > > > permit from the DNR this spring.
        > > >
        > > > I was involved in the maul discussion. I'm getting quite
        > > profecient
        > > > at splitting, well over 50% of my strikes split the target wood
        > > now!
        > > > Its a great feeling when that wood splits clean down the middle. I
        > > > also learned not to push it when the wood won't split, I just set
        > > > those pieces aside for overnight burn & go on to the next. Haven't
        > > > been wasting anything either! I pick up the scraps & shards of
        > > wood
        > > > to use as kinding to start my fires during the week.
        > > >
        > > > My first 2 energy bills have been drastically lower, last month it
        > > > was $114 for a 2400 sq foot house! We're using aboiut 25% of the
        > > gas
        > > > we did same time last year & even the electricity usage is down
        > > > around 10%!!!! Well within my target of reducing our usage by
        > > 33%.
        > > > Running low on wood now,only had about 1 1/2 cords at the start of
        > > > the year. Will have to get in at least 2 cords next season & think
        > > I
        > > > can manage that from local wood fall, it just takes some effort on
        > > > my part. i actually enjoy getting out there in the cold &
        > > splitting
        > > > & moving wood from the main pile to my staging rack in the garage!
        > > > Put the radio on & listen to my favorite R&R oldies station!
        > > >
        > > > Love my Lopi Freedom insert, it works great. The tips on sucessful
        > > > burning have been very helpful. Over the past 2 months I have
        > > > learned how to get a good fire started, how to max the fire out to
        > > > get the fan blowing, how to maximize an overnite burn etc.
        > > >
        > > > This mailing list has been so helpful. Also the woodheat.org
        > > > website. Thanks to everyone for all the helpful hints & advice,
        > > both
        > > > directly from e-mails & on this list. It feels real good to open
        > > > those energy bills now & know I have some control & not big
        > > > energy!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Steve
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > The Greatest Rock & Roll of the Twentieth Century!!!
        > > >
        > > > http://www.live365.com/stations/albo60s
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, Keith McHugh <keithmchugh@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Gary,
        > > > > Great idea's on splitting wood! Wow - that is the hardcore
        > > method
        > > > for
        > > > > splitting wood! How much wood do you split a year?? I use a
        > > > homemade
        > > > > wood splitter - but I still have the problems of bending over
        > > > lifting
        > > > > the wood. I wear a back support for heavy lifting - that seems
        > > to
        > > > help
        > > > > during splitting and moving wood - especially when lifting heavy
        > > > pieces.
        > > > >
        > > > > When I split wood - I try to back a trailer with my tractor
        > > right
        > > > next
        > > > > to the wood splitter - as soon as the wood is split - I throw it
        > > > on the
        > > > > trailer to be moved over to the wood pile - this way I do not
        > > have
        > > > to
        > > > > pick the wood up again - it is at waist level on the trailer -
        > > > makes it
        > > > > easier to grab the wood - I can put 1 cord of wood on the
        > > trailer
        > > > in a
        > > > > pile - it is a pretty big trailer. I have tried to streamline
        > > the
        > > > > process - but I think that no matter what method you use - you
        > > are
        > > > > always bending over picking up the wood.
        > > > >
        > > > > How do you haul your wood?? I use a "Wood Chuck" dolly that has
        > > > 20"
        > > > > tires on it. I can stack about 200 - 300lbs of wood on the
        > > > dolly. I
        > > > > can easily roll it from my 5-6 cord wood stack upto my house -
        > > > > approximately a 75 feet. Then go down 6 stairs (which is not to
        > > > bad to
        > > > > navigate) with it into the basement where my woodstove is. I
        > > keep
        > > > the
        > > > > wood about 6 feet away from the stove. I usually get a load per
        > > > day if
        > > > > it is really cold or snowing out. If we have a nor easter
        > > winter
        > > > storm
        > > > > I bring a few loads in to handle the storm.
        > > > >
        > > > > For my fireplace - I have a small wood stack ( last about 4
        > > days)
        > > > right
        > > > > outside my front door - so I just use the tractor with the front
        > > > end
        > > > > loader to get the wood to that stack - I always use tractor
        > > > hydraulics
        > > > > when I can in moving the wood - try to save the back. But I
        > > still
        > > > have
        > > > > to bend over to pickup the wood from the bottom of the wood
        > > stack
        > > > to put
        > > > > it in the front end loader. I hear your concerns on bending
        > > over
        > > > to
        > > > > move wood.
        > > > >
        > > > > I guess I was looking to get the best ideas on hauling, moving,
        > > > and
        > > > > storing your wood.
        > > > >
        > > > > Keith
        > > > >
        > > > > For my fireplace - I have a wood thormole2004 wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > A while back there was quite a discussion by those of us who
        > > > split
        > > > > > wood with a maul. I've been heating solely with wood for 24
        > > > years,
        > > > > > cutting, hauling, and splitting what I've needed from my land.
        > > A
        > > > > > chainsaw, wheelbarrow, and maul are my main tools. As I've
        > > gotten
        > > > > > older the constant bending to pick up split wood was getting
        > > to
        > > > my
        > > > > > back. I found a way to utlilze some old tires which does make
        > > > the job
        > > > > > a bit easier.
        > > > > > My splitting block is a 16" diameter round 20" high piece of
        > > > knot
        > > > > > filled beech placed on the ground to split on. I've stacked
        > > four
        > > > old
        > > > > > car tires on top of each other around the splitting block so
        > > the
        > > > > > tires come up about a foot above the splitting block. The wood
        > > > to be
        > > > > > split sits on the block surrounded by the tires. After the
        > > wood
        > > > is
        > > > > > struck, the tires keep the split pieces of wood on the block
        > > and
        > > > high
        > > > > > enough to reach without bending over. They also work to lean
        > > > uneven
        > > > > > wood against and help to catch any stray maul strikes,
        > > > preventing the
        > > > > > maul head from coming close to feet and legs. In order to keep
        > > > the
        > > > > > tires in place during splitting I tie three legnths of rope
        > > > aound all
        > > > > > four tires. It saves a lot of bending and actually makes the
        > > > jobs a
        > > > > > lot faster.
        > > > > > This may be a common form of splitting, but I haven't seen it
        > > > > > discussed, so thought I'd offer it up. I enjoy the site and am
        > > > always
        > > > > > finding something to learn.
        > > > > > Gary
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Check THE woodheat web site at http://www.woodheat.org
        > > > > > To receive no more messages email: woodheat-
        > > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
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        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
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        > >
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        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Yahoo! Mail
        > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Check THE woodheat web site at http://www.woodheat.org
        > > To receive no more messages email:
        woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
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        > > SPONSORED LINKS
        > > Wood
        > >
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > > w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=AuhZgOYMldTkpxWb8UBoYg> heat
        Conservation
        > >
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > > on&w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=RHf_qWBteuyLtCiMTCFn9g> Woodheat
        > >
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > > 3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=IhVSqlIkTv_atui0s225Qw>
        > >
        > > _____
        > >
        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > * Visit your group "woodheat
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        > >
        > >
        > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        > > <mailto:woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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        > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service
        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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        > > _____
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Check THE woodheat web site at http://www.woodheat.org
        > To receive no more messages email: woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
        > Wood
        >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        > w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=AuhZgOYMldTkpxWb8UBoYg> heat Conservation
        >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > on&w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=RHf_qWBteuyLtCiMTCFn9g> Woodheat
        >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > 3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=IhVSqlIkTv_atui0s225Qw>
        >
        > _____
        >
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        >
        > * Visit your group "woodheat <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodheat>
        > " on the web.
        >
        >
        > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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        > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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        > _____
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        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >







        Check THE woodheat web site at http://www.woodheat.org
        To receive no more messages email: woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





        SPONSORED LINKS
        Wood
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
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        > &k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=AuhZgOYMldTkpxWb8UBoYg> heat Conservation
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        > &k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        on&w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=RHf_qWBteuyLtCiMTCFn9g> Woodheat
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        > &k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=IhVSqlIkTv_atui0s225Qw>

        _____

        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



        * Visit your group "woodheat <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodheat>
        " on the web.


        * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        <mailto:woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


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        _____




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        Check THE woodheat web site at http://www.woodheat.org
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        SPONSORED LINKS
        Wood
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wood+heat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&
        w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=AuhZgOYMldTkpxWb8UBoYg> heat Conservation
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Conservation&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservati
        on&w3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=RHf_qWBteuyLtCiMTCFn9g> Woodheat
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Woodheat&w1=Wood+heat&w2=Conservation&w
        3=Woodheat&c=3&s=47&.sig=IhVSqlIkTv_atui0s225Qw>

        _____

        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



        * Visit your group "woodheat <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodheat>
        " on the web.


        * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        <mailto:woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


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