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RE: [woodandbrass] Entering the fray ...

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  • Rob Niederman
    Rob Niederman here . pre-1900 W&B. That is my focus, as well as the occasional interesting post 1900 W&B camera and dialogue with Milan about lenses. I always
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 7, 2008
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      Rob Niederman here … pre-1900 W&B.  That is my focus, as well as the occasional interesting post 1900 W&B camera and dialogue with Milan about lenses. I always had an interest in photography; a darkroom at the age of 13, large format work by the age of 17, and studied with Ansel Adams in the mid-1970s.  My first “collected” camera was a birthday present in the ‘70s but 10+ years ago collecting and researching W&B became a passion. And I’m happy to say that my website is now 10 years old as of June! (www.antiquewoodcameras.com)

       

      Over the years I’ve focused my interests proud to say my collection is small and organized around themes. My intent is not to acquire a zillion variations of a particular camera, but to obtain excellent examples of landmark and odd designs, first version American self-casing (folding plate) cameras, cameras that tell a great story, and items that are simply pleasant to look at.

       

      The majority of my collection is American from wet plate on. (Nice dag apparatus is still beyond my means.)  My collecting is also about uncovering the lore and legacy. Who made the camera and why? Did it succeed of fail?  That sort of thing.  I wish answers were easy, but often research brings about more questions than answers and unexpected surprises.  When completed (or at least to the point where I’m burned out), the research is shared with the collector community on my website or in articles. 

       

      Otherwise, living in the mid-western U.S., north of 50 yo, and enjoying nice warm weather yet somehow tolerant of the abysmal winters my wife loves.

       

      That’s about it … time for coffee and work.

       

      - Rob

       

      PS: Anyone passing through Minneapolis is invited to stop by and discuss cameras over a decent single malt Scotch or small batch bourbon.

    • Ken Hough
      I m Ken Hough. age in August, 54. I ve collected since I was 10 or 11. First was a 120 sized Kodak Box camera and then the collection grew till it hit around
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 7, 2008
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        I'm Ken Hough. age in August, 54. I've collected since I was 10 or
        11.
        First was a 120 sized Kodak Box camera and then the collection
        grew till it hit around 1500. Then kids came along and college and
        the collection shrunk to around 650. I'm known as the "Deardorff
        guy". I worked for Deardorff as their refinisher of cameras and
        continue to do so. I am also a historian and collector of Deardorff
        products. (still looking for a bench grinder they made in WWII) See
        my website in my signature below. My current pursuit is Nikon RDFR
        cameras with a great user S2 that was the 150th one made. Ah.... I
        also collect cameras of famous Photographers.
        Ken

        Ken Hough Photographic Repair Service
        Specializing in the Complete restoration of
        Deardorff View Cameras
        Est 1982
        www.deardorffcameras.0catch.com
        219 462 0281



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      • Rob McElroy
        Rob McElroy here, 53 years old, from Buffalo, NY. I am currently a reformed collector, having successfully re-trained myself NOT to be tempted by all things
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 7, 2008
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          Rob McElroy here, 53 years old, from Buffalo, NY. I am currently a
          reformed collector, having successfully re-trained myself NOT to be
          tempted by all things photographic. After 20+ years of actively
          collecting anything and everything related to the history of
          photography (cameras, lenses, books, periodicals, ephemera, and
          images), and because the volume of my acquired items was literally
          consuming me, I have now (for the past three years) entered a new self-
          imposed phase in my life -- aptly called "acquisition remission."

          Having been a professional photographer for 28 years, and a
          photography dealer (primarily used cameras and images) for the past
          10+ years, I was constantly being tempted with new and interesting
          photographic items, and of course I bought them. I have been selling
          off much of the volume so that I can once again park my car in my 3000
          sq. ft. garage, which is totally filled with photographic "stuff." My
          history of photography camera-display contains cameras and ephemera
          that interest me either visually or technologically (monetary value
          doesn't matter). If a camera tells a story, has a history, or can be
          related to specific images, ephemera, or a photographer, then I will
          display it. I no longer care about acquiring multiple variations of
          the same camera, just to have them.

          Lenses, especially fast, exotic, state-of-the-art lenses, is also a
          collecting love of mine, and because I am a practicing contemporary
          daguerreotypist, I use most of them. I also love the Pictorialist era
          and have many of the soft-focus lenses of the early 1900's. I co-
          authored a book on the Photo-Pictorialists of Buffalo, and one on the
          history of photography at Niagara Falls.

          The history of this magical process called photography is my main area
          of interest now, and the things I do still look for are photographic
          books, periodicals, and trade catalogs to add to my library, which is
          my main pride and joy. I also collect process-identified images for
          my photo conservation study-collection. My photo conservation
          research lab is constantly being enhanced by period-items which help
          to tell the story of how various images were created.

          Cheers,
          Rob McElroy
          Buffalo, NY
        • alaskanaking
          I am an f16 riddle, wrapped in a Voigtländer mystery, inside a tailboard enigma. Dick Wood, Juneau Alaska
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 7, 2008
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            I am an f16 riddle, wrapped in a Voigtländer mystery, inside a
            tailboard enigma.

            Dick Wood, Juneau Alaska
          • akeman21
            Hi, Ake Borgstrom, 51 years young, from Stockholm Sweden. Collecting pre 1900 cameras, and showing them off at my website: http://www.photographica.nu
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 8, 2008
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              Hi,

              Ake Borgstrom, 51 years young, from Stockholm Sweden.
              Collecting pre 1900 cameras, and showing them off at my website:
              http://www.photographica.nu
            • eric evans
              ... the ... are ... Newman ... members ... work ... Hello David, Eric Evans here, we have met before. I am 78 years old, feeling about 16 today, because I
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 9, 2008
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                --- In woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com, "David Purcell"
                <david.purcell@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi all!
                >
                > I'm new to this group, though known to some of you through either
                the
                > IDCC list, PCCGB or eBay.
                >
                > I have had a casual interest in cameras for many years, but started
                > collecting seriously about 7 years ago. My collecting interests
                are
                > quite broad, with the aim of building a collection that illustrates
                > the development of cameras up to about the mid-1930s or so, but
                > concentrating on rollfilm and plate cameras. Consequently about a
                > quarter of my collection qualifies as wood and brass.
                >
                > While my 'theme' is quite broad my collecting habits are somewhat
                > biased to Anglo-American manufacturers. Inevitably I have more
                > Kodaks than anything else, although that balance is changing over
                > time. I do love high-quality makers such as Watson, Adams and
                Newman
                > & Guardia.
                >
                > And at the age of 50 maybe I qualify as one of the "younger"
                members
                > of our collecting fraternity? I can't promise to be a frequent
                > contributor, not least because of the need to juggle family and
                work
                > commitments around my hobby.
                >
                > Regards to all from the south coast of England,
                >
                > David Purcell
                >
                Hello David,
                Eric Evans here, we have "met" before. I am 78 years old,
                feeling about 16 today, because I just acquired an 1864 wet plate
                sliding box camera, hopefully a Dallmeyer because it has a Dallmeyer
                lens, but all here will know that lenses alone are not conclusive
                identification. But it's a Dallmeyer until somebody proves to me that
                it isn't. And with cameras that rare, nobody cares who made them,
                anyway.
                I collect wood and brass cameras by British makers, between 1839
                and 1914; the impossible dream is to get one example of every British
                maker in that period; up to now 150+ cameras by 80+ different makers.
                See my website at:www.woodandbrass.co.uk.
                Took my first photographs on my dad's John Bull Ensign when I was
                seven, been at it ever since, including a fifteen years spell as a
                photo-journalist. Loved Nikon film cameras, can't afford a Nikon
                digital AND support a W&B collection; now have a digital Olympus
                because I could afford a second hand one. Shan't buy another in my
                lifetime, I doubt.
                Greetings to all from Sheffield, Yorkshire, England.
              • Ralph & Bobbi London
                I collect mainly early wood and brass cameras from the 1840s to the early 1900s plus relevant catalogs and ads. My collection, which started in 1987, is now
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 9, 2008
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                  I collect mainly early wood and brass cameras from the 1840s to the
                  early 1900s plus relevant catalogs and ads. My collection, which
                  started in 1987, is now DOWN to about 260 cameras. A retired computer
                  scientist aged 72, I contribute frequently to photohistory
                  publications. For many years I edited the "Cascade Panorama" for the
                  Cascade Photographic Historical Society. A related sidelight is my
                  large topical collection of postage stamps on cameras and photography.
                  For all my photography -- of people, scenery and cameras, I use a
                  simple digital camera that fits in my pocket.

                  My wife Bobbi and I have created a display at each Puget Sound
                  Photographic Collectors Society annual show since 1993 when displays
                  began. She has an extensive collection of stanhopes and often writes
                  about them. When not traveling, we live in Portland, Oregon.

                  Ralph
                • mattri@aol.com
                  Hello everybody, Matt Isenburg here, I feel obliged to belong to any group that has the words wood and brass in the title. My camera collection is wood and
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 10, 2008
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                    Hello everybody,
                    Matt Isenburg here,
                    I feel obliged to belong to any group that has the
                    words wood and brass in the title. My camera
                    collection is wood and brass. It probably was not
                    the best of investments when it came to appreciation,
                    but the other benefits have more than compensated
                    for the less than sterling performance in the resale
                    market. I believe I bought my first wet-plate camera
                    in 1970 and my first daguerreian camera two or
                    three years later. My collection of cameras numbers
                    less than 100 accompanied by about three times as
                    many early tools and equipment to accompany and
                    supplement the cameras themselves.


                    A few years ago I wrote an article,
                    Reflections on the Formation of a Collection.
                    Here is a paragraph from that article. 

                    Through the existence of the collection, I have been
                    involved with many interesting people. Through it
                    I even met my wife Elizabeth. I was nominated to
                    and accepted as a member of the American
                    Antiquarian Society. I was voted a Fellow of the
                    American Photo Historical Society, a Paul Harris
                    Rotarian and an honorary Kentucky Colonel.
                    The collection has resided in the same house in
                    Hadlyme, CT for more than forty years. The top
                    collectors in many different fields have visited me
                    and graciously allowed me to visit them. I have
                    met and spent considerable time with famous
                    writers, artists, designers, photographers,
                    historians, museum directors and curators,
                    corporate CEOs and even the grandson of the
                    last Emperor of Austria. (Why else would a
                    Hapsburg grace my dinner table?) The common
                    strain through all these encounters is collecting.
                    Because of the social aspects of collecting, it
                    would be near impossible for me to part with
                    all or even a part of the collection at present,
                    and though my priorities are shifting, I still thrill
                    at the acquisition of an early  piece of equipment
                    or a rare catalogue.

                    Though I do not contribute much or often,
                    I read every word written by the members,
                    and it warms my heart to see thoughts,
                    facts and opinions expressed by so many
                    of my dear friends.
                    Matthew R. Isenburg




                    **************
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                  • Milan Zahorcak
                    My, we are still a quiet and it would appear, a much smaller group . . . and it would seem, more mature. With few exceptions, most of us qualify for the
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 11, 2008
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                      Message
                      My, we are still a quiet and it would appear, a much smaller group . . . and it would seem, more mature.  With few exceptions, most of us qualify for the senior menu at Denny's.  And perhaps we can take a note from Sheri's and refer to each other as Honored Members . . . you know that HM Matt has an appealing ring to it.
                       
                      So far, it would seem that 27 of the former W&B-1's 69 (digested & undigested) members have signed aboard, and that 14 of us have generously provided background info upon entering the fray.  Any idea what happened to the other 42?  Mortality rates aren't that high even for a mature group such as us.
                       
                      And, thanks to all those who were willing to go public with their bio's, and perhaps the silent minority might wish to consider adding their afflictions . . . or interests . . . to our list.  It is nice to know who is listening and perhaps who to turn to for advice, and opinions.
                       
                      I would hope that we evolve into a more active group.  Surely, all of us have interests and activities that the rest might find stimulating and thought-provoking.  And I would hope that the more mundane aspects of collecting life would be shared; research projects, frustrations, eBay (ever popular), nice finds, blown opportunities . . . the status of certain #6 Zentmayer lenses.  Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm. 
                       
                      Posts don't have to be anything earth-shaking, just routine postings of things that are going on.  For example, when does HM Ole find the time to shoot, or when does HM Ole find the time to work?  Where can we find examples of the HM's work, etc?  I, for one, have about 30 topics, almost all of them G&B oriented (Glass & Brass, my specialized subset) that I am dying to ask about in the vain hope that someone might have a lead, or an ad . . . or a #6 Zentmayer lens.
                       
                      For example, the Watkin's Pinhole thread was fun . . . now, does anyone have a Planiscope set?  Has anyone figured out how the Wide Angle Planiscope is supposed to work?  I have a very nice WAP, but for the life of me, nothing I do gets me a wider angle of view.
                       
                      I'd use a #6 Zentmayer lens if I had one . . . but until then, I have to make do.
                       
                      mz
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com [mailto:woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattri@...
                      Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:02 PM
                      To: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [woodandbrass] Re: Entering the fray ...

                      Hello everybody,
                      Matt Isenburg here,
                      I feel obliged to belong to any group that has the
                      words wood and brass in the title. My camera
                      collection is wood and brass  . . .


                    • JCR Cameras
                      Hi Everyone, Following the request for more biographies, here goes! My name is John Rushton and I live in South Yorkshire, which is in the North Midlands of
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 11, 2008
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                        Hi Everyone,

                         

                        Following the request for more biographies, here goes!

                         

                        My name is John Rushton and I live in South Yorkshire, which is in the North Midlands of England about fifteen miles east of Sheffield.

                         

                        I started out in photography at the age of twelve with the inevitable Kodak Brownie 127, moving on through a ¼-plate Thornton Pickard Field Camera, an Agfa Silette, a MPP Microcord TLR, various Nikon 35mm SLRs, a Bronica S2a outfit, a Hasselblad outfit etc. I did my own D&P, including colour and Cibachrome printing. I now have Nikon digital cameras and rarely use film and when I do it is in medium format cameras.

                         

                        I have been collecting cameras since 1974 when I borrowed GB£50 from our house’s chancellor (The Mrs) and went out and bought four old plate cameras which were advertised in the local paper. I sold one for £50, paid back the chancellor and kept the other three. I thought this was a brilliant modus operandi and so it continued for a few years, buying pretty well anything and everything that came my way, within the chancellor’s limits of course.

                         

                        After about four years my tastes became more selective. I only wanted fine condition and rarer items. Joining the PCCGB made swapping and trading with fellow collectors at club meetings a great asset and so I was able to move on those items which no longer interested me, while financing purchases of better equipment.

                         

                        I have not specialized on any particular branch of cameras but I do like fine condition wood and brass, particularly tropical cameras. All camera types have an attraction for me, the humble box camera being no exception. I also have a strong interest in early camera lenses and shutters. I find the combinable lens sets, like the Busch’s Vademecum, quite fascinating.

                         

                        I do not buy many cameras these days. In retirement with reduced income and ever increasing cost of living one’s ability to buy the rarer items is very limited. Storage and display space is a serious issue in a conventional family home after thirty four years of collecting. However the interest remains undiminished and the Wood and Brass, and the IDCC forums are a great source of knowledge, providing excellent contact with likeminded collectors.

                         

                        Best Wishes,

                        John

                         

                         

                      • marenfred@aol.com
                        Hello all, My name is Fred Friedman. I am just back from a small ship cruise to the Greek Islands with my lovely wife Maren and a 13 year old grandaughter.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 13, 2008
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                          Hello all,
                          My name is Fred Friedman. I am just back from a small ship cruise to the Greek Islands with my lovely wife Maren and a 13 year old grandaughter. Hence, my delay in "entering the fray". I turned 77 on the cruise, so I am clearly one of the more ancient members of this august body.My legs presently feel 87!  We live in an apartment (flat to some of you) in Cliffside Park, New Jersey...just south of the George Washington Bridge, overlooking the Hudson River and the New York skyline.

                          I began photographing subjects through the microscope at age 14 with my Mother's then 30 year old box camera. For my high school graduation, I was presented with a used Exacta B. I became Photo Editor of my college paper (New York University) and shot the basketball and football games for publication using that Exacta B with a flashgun, of course. Given the poor viewing and shutter lag involved I am surprised, in retrospect, that I managed to shoot successfully. In the military I wrote and photographed for the Fort Benning, Georgia newspaper and magazine.

                          I have over time collected and then sold Colt and Remington cap and ball pistols, ancient chinese bronze mirrors, screw mount Leica. When I held my first early wood and brass camera some 15 or 20  years ago, I was smitten!
                          I love the fine workmanship on the pre-1900 British cameras and am partial to Hare and Meagher as well as some oddball examples of other makers. I also have a soft spot for "orphans of history", that is, unmarked cameras in small sizes. Since we live in apartment and have little space for display, I limit my collection to about 25 pieces. When I fall in love with a new acquisition, I sell a piece to make room. I am not a "squirrel it away in the cupboard" acquirerer.

                          I have written a number of articles that have been published in "Photographica World" and am a happy member of the PCCGB. I was a member of the now defunct American Photographic Historical Society. I fund my camera habit by buying and selling at camera shows and on ebay and use profit, if any, to upgrade my collection. My ability to do so is limited by the needs of 6 grandchildren, 3 of whom need or will need help with university tuition. Oh yes, we also like to eat well and travel.

                          Maren and I were fortunate enough to live in London and Paris (had to work there, darn it) in the early to mid 1960's. Oh, had I discovered wood and brass cameras then! We expect to revisit London again in February for the retrospective of Dora Gordine at Dorich House, Richmond University in Kingston. Dora was a rather well known sculptor whom we met and befriended when we lived in London. A very fine book on her life and work, by Jonathan Black, has just been published in the UK. If British art is of interest to any of you, the book is terrific.

                           Incidentally, I have more family in t he UK that in the USA. Cousins in Ombersley, London, and in other parts unknown. I was born in Germany and most of the family moved to the UK in the mid 1930's.
                          My latest acquisition is on the way and should arrive in a week or so. It is a 1/4 plate early Gandolfi with repeating back. I will post pix after it arrives for comment by anyone interested. The rarest camera I have held in my hands is a Stereo Reflex Camera made by the Reflex Camera Company of Yonkers, NY which I donated to Eastman House some years ago. It appears, so far as I know, to be the only such stereo body known. Anyone out there have another? I suspect Todd Gustavson of Eastman House would like to hear from you.

                          I've been fortunate to meet and or correspond with some of you and am grateful for your help and friendship. This is a delightful group with a wealth of knowledge and a willingness to share. Thank you.

                          Cheers,
                          Fred Friedman







                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: JCR Cameras <jcr_cameras@...>
                          To: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 2:06 pm
                          Subject: [woodandbrass] Camera Collector's Biographies

                          Hi Everyone,
                           
                          Following the request for more biographies, here goes!
                           
                          My name is John Rushton and I live in South Yorkshire, which is in the North Midlands of England about fifteen miles east of Sheffield.
                           
                          I started out in photography at the age of twelve with the inevitable Kodak Brownie 127, moving on through a ¼-plate Thornton Pickard Field Camera, an Agfa Silette, a MPP Microcord TLR, various Nikon 35mm SLRs, a Bronica S2a outfit, a Hasselblad outfit etc. I did my own D&P, including colour and Cibachrome printing. I now have Nikon digital cameras and rarely use film and when I do it is in medium format cameras.
                           
                          I have been collecting cameras since 1974 when I borrowed GB£50 from our house’s chancellor (The Mrs) and went out and bought four old plate cameras w hich were advertised in the local paper. I sold one for £50, paid back the chancellor and kept the other three. I thought this was a brilliant modus operandi and so it continued for a few years, buying pretty well anything and everything that came my way, within the chancellor’s limits of course.
                           
                          After about four years my tastes became more selective. I only wanted fine condition and rarer items. Joining the PCCGB made swapping and trading with fellow collectors at club meetings a great asset and so I was able to move on those items which no longer interested me, while financing purchases of better equipment.
                           
                          I have not specialized on any particular branch of cameras but I do like fine condition wood and brass, particularly tropical cameras. All camera types have an attraction for me, the humble box camera being no exception. I also have a strong interest in early camera lenses and shutters. I find the combinable lens sets, like the Busch’s Vademecum, quite fascinating.
                           
                          I do not buy many cameras these days. In retirement with reduced income and ever increasing cost of living one9 9s ability to buy the rarer items is very limited. Storage and display space is a serious issue in a conventional family home after thirty four years of collecting. However the interest remains undiminished and the Wood and Brass, and the IDCC forums are a great source of knowledge, providing excellent contact with likeminded collectors.
                           
                          Best Wishes,
                          John
                           
                           
                        • Marcel Safier
                          Hello all I have been away in Canberra for a week of photographic indulgence (a conference plus many exhibitions as part of the Vivid Festival) and only
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 16, 2008
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                          • Milan Zahorcak
                            Marcel, So how many of those lenses do I need more than you? Just send them all and I ll return any that I don t need. Speaking of acquiring lenses . . . you
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 16, 2008
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                              Message
                              Marcel,
                               
                              So how many of those lenses do I need more than you?  Just send them all and I'll return any that I don't need.
                               
                              Speaking of acquiring lenses . . . you knew that was coming, yes . . . I recently picked up a curious little lens that now has me puzzled.
                               
                              Richard Morrison was an American optician who quietly got around and worked on some of the more interesting domestic designs ever produced by 3 or 4 different US companies, depending how you count.
                               
                              Eventually he established his own company "R. Morrison" around 1870 and produced a number of interesting and confusing designs, largely in order to compete against the increasing popular RR/Aplanat and to get around there patents.
                               
                              As far as I can tell, Morrison produced 3, possibly 4 designs, and is widely given credit for a design that I don't think ever went into production (or if it did, it was when he was working for NY Optical Works, but I haven't one of those yet), yet there is only one Morrison Optical Patent:  #126,979 dated May 21, 1872.
                               
                              One of the many unfortunate things about Morrison lenses is that they are never? rarely? identified by name, on the lens . . . and then this came along:
                               
                               
                              On the left is his standard design for what he called the "the Wide Angle View" (meaning a landscape lens).  On the right, is a recent acquisition with "Landscape Lens" spelled out - but note that it is an "R. Morrison's" lens, and has neither a patent date, nor serial # . . . and look carefully, the engraving is crude at best.  Look at the sizes (especially the N) and alignment.
                               
                              Now here are some curious issues.  On the cover of some of his catalogues, he mentions "Morrison's Landscape" lenses - but inside there is no mention of the word Landscape, and what is spelled out and illustrated are "R. Morrison, Wide Angle View" lenses.
                               
                              So, what do we have here?  Is the Landscape lens a knockoff, a copy, home-made?  The optics inside are exactly the same as those found in the WAV to the left.  And the optics are complicated, and as far as I know - were never copied by anyone else.
                               
                              It's one thing to copy a wood camera - another to fake a lens.
                               
                              Any thoughts?  Other examples of fakes and copies?
                               
                              mz
                               
                               
                               
                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com [mailto:woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marcel Safier
                              Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:56 AM
                              To: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [woodandbrass] Re: Entering the fray ... stats

                              Hello all

                              I have been away in Canberra for a week of photographic indulgence (a conference plus many exhibitions as part of the Vivid Festival) and only managed to pick up 5 brass lenses and a set of waterhouse stops while there but I got 3 new wood and brass cameras while I was away thanks to eSnipe bless its little cotton socks (a Perken, Son & Rayment, a McGhie and a Wratten & Wainwright).

                              I too have wondered what has happened to the “other” list members. Only one has contacted me to say he won’t join due to issues with Yahoo groups. Milan not all the current 28 list members are from the old group. I have been actively encouraging new members and I put an announcement about this group on the IDCC list and I have already arranged for the PCCGB membership to be alerted to its existence as Fred suggested. I look forward to pursuing other means to expand the list membership and would appreciate any suggestions. There must be a lot of collectors in Europe and Asia for instance that we could invite on board.

                              Cheers!

                              Marcel
                              --
                              Marcel Safier (Photographic Historian and Collector)
                              PO Box 239
                              Holland Park 4121
                              Queensland Australia
                              http://members. ozemail.com. au/~msafier/ index.html

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:woodandbras s@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                              Milan Zahorcak
                              Sent:
                              12 July 2008 02:02
                              To: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: RE: [woodandbrass] Re: Entering the fray ... stats

                              My, we are still a quiet and it would appear, a much smaller group . . . and it would seem, more mature.  With few exceptions, most of us qualify for the senior menu at Denny's.  And perhaps we can take a note from Sheri's and refer to each other as Honored Members . . . you know that HM Matt has an appealing ring to it.

                              So far, it would seem that 27 of the former W&B-1's 69 (digested & undigested) members have signed aboard, and that 14 of us have generously provided background info upon entering the fray.  Any idea what happened to the other 42?  Mortality rates aren't that high even for a mature group such as us.

                              And, thanks to all those who were willing to go public with their bio's, and perhaps the silent minority might wish to consider adding their afflictions . . . or interests . . . to our list.  It is nice to know who is listening and perhaps who to turn to for advice, and opinions.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:woodandbras s@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                              marenfred@aol. com
                              Sent:
                              13 July 2008 20:48
                              To: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [woodandbrass] membership

                              It occurs to me that one way we might attract a few knowledgeable new younger members would be by letting our existence be known to members of other camera collecting groups. For instance, John Marriott might give us a little PR in Photographica World. Rob Niederman might give us a little PR in his group's publication. 

                              What do you think?

                              Fred






                              E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
                              Database version: 5.10270e
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                            • dcolucci@aol.com
                              Darlot lens fakes have appeared on ebay every now and then.... The engraving, font, or mistaken text highlight the fake. Benjamin French mentions
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 16, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                 
                                Darlot lens fakes have appeared on ebay every now and then....  The engraving, font, or mistaken text highlight the fake.  
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                Benjamin French mentions "imitations" of Darlot's in his advertisements (1890):
                                 
                                 
                                 










































                                .

















                                 
                                In a message dated 7/16/2008 1:15:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, milan.zahorcak@... writes:

                                Marcel,
                                 
                                So how many of those lenses do I need more than you?  Just send them all and I'll return any that I don't need.
                                 
                                Speaking of acquiring lenses . . . you knew that was coming, yes . . . I recently picked up a curious little lens that now has me puzzled.
                                 
                                Richard Morrison was an American optician who quietly got around and worked on some of the more interesting domestic designs ever produced by 3 or 4 different US companies, depending how you count.
                                 
                                Eventually he established his own company "R. Morrison" around 1870 and produced a number of interesting and confusing designs, largely in order to compete against the increasing popular RR/Aplanat and to get around there patents.
                                 
                                As far as I can tell, Morrison produced 3, possibly 4 designs, and is widely given credit for a design that I don't think ever went into production (or if it did, it was when he was working for NY Optical Works, but I haven't one of those yet), yet there is only one Morrison Optical Patent:  #126,979 dated May 21, 1872.
                                 
                                One of the many unfortunate things about Morrison lenses is that they are never? rarely? identified by name, on the lens . . . and then this came along:
                                 
                                 
                                On the left is his standard design for what he called the "the Wide Angle View" (meaning a landscape lens).  On the right, is a recent acquisition with "Landscape Lens" spelled out - but note that it is an "R. Morrison's" lens, and has neither a patent date, nor serial # . . . and look carefully, the engraving is crude at best.  Look at the sizes (especially the N) and alignment.
                                 
                                Now here are some curious issues.  On the cover of some of his catalogues, he mentions "Morrison's Landscape" lenses - but inside there is no mention of the word Landscape, and what is spelled out and illustrated are "R. Morrison, Wide Angle View" lenses.
                                 
                                So, what do we have here?  Is the Landscape lens a knockoff, a copy, home-made?  The optics inside are exactly the same as those found in the WAV to the left.  And the optics are complicated, and as far as I know - were never copied by anyone else.
                                 
                                It's one thing to copy a wood camera - another to fake a lens.
                                 
                                Any thoughts?  Other examples of fakes and copies?
                                 
                                mz
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:woodandbras s@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marcel Safier
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:56 AM
                                To: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: RE: [woodandbrass] Re: Entering the fray ... stats

                                Hello all

                                I have been away in Canberra for a week of photographic indulgence (a conference plus many exhibitions as part of the Vivid Festival) and only managed to pick up 5 brass lenses and a set of waterhouse stops while there but I got 3 new wood and brass cameras while I was away thanks to eSnipe bless its little cotton socks (a Perken, Son & Rayment, a McGhie and a Wratten & Wainwright).

                                I too have wondered what has happened to the “other” list members. Only one has contacted me to say he won’t join due to issues with Yahoo groups. Milan not all the current 28 list members are from the old group. I have been actively encouraging new members and I put an announcement about this group on the IDCC list and I have already arranged for the PCCGB membership to be alerted to its existence as Fred suggested. I look forward to pursuing other means to expand the list membership and would appreciate any suggestions. There must be a lot of collectors in Europe and Asia for instance that we could invite on board.

                                Cheers!

                                Marcel
                                --
                                Marcel Safier (Photographic Historian and Collector)
                                PO Box 239
                                Holland Park 4121
                                Queensland Australia
                                http://members. ozemail.com. au/~msafier/ index.html

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:woodandbras s@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                                Milan Zahorcak
                                Sent:
                                12 July 2008 02:02
                                To: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: RE: [woodandbrass] Re: Entering the fray ... stats

                                My, we are still a quiet and it would appear, a much smaller group . . . and it would seem, more mature.  With few exceptions, most of us qualify for the senior menu at Denny's.  And perhaps we can take a note from Sheri's and refer to each other as Honored Members . . . you know that HM Matt has an appealing ring to it.

                                So far, it would seem that 27 of the former W&B-1's 69 (digested & undigested) members have signed aboard, and that 14 of us have generously provided background info upon entering the fray.  Any idea what happened to the other 42?  Mortality rates aren't that high even for a mature group such as us.

                                And, thanks to all those who were willing to go public with their bio's, and perhaps the silent minority might wish to consider adding their afflictions . . . or interests . . . to our list.  It is nice to know who is listening and perhaps who to turn to for advice, and opinions.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:woodandbras s@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                                marenfred@aol. com
                                Sent:
                                13 July 2008 20:48
                                To: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [woodandbrass] membership

                                It occurs to me that one way we might attract a few knowledgeable new younger members would be by letting our existence be known to members of other camera collecting groups. For instance, John Marriott might give us a little PR in Photographica World. Rob Niederman might give us a little PR in his group's publication. 

                                What do you think?

                                Fred






                                E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
                                Database version: 5.10270e
                                http://www.pctools. com/spyware- doctor/





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                              • Ole Tjugen
                                I have taken the liberty of posting a short message in the (most) relevant subforum on APUG: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum127/52379-wood-brass-
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 16, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I have taken the liberty of posting a short message in the (most) relevant
                                  subforum on APUG: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum127/52379-wood-brass-
                                  collectors-mailing-list.html#post655417

                                  Since I'm a moderator there I can assure you that the post has been approved
                                  by the moderators. :)

                                  Ole Tjugen

                                  On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:55:48 +1000, Marcel Safier wrote
                                  <snip>
                                   
                                  > I too have wondered what has happened to the “other” list members. Only
                                  one has contacted me to say he won’t join due to issues with Yahoo groups.
                                  Milan not all the current 28 list members are from the old group. I have
                                  been actively encouraging new members and I put an announcement about this
                                  group on the IDCC list and I have already arranged for the PCCGB membership
                                  to be alerted to its existence as Fred suggested. I look forward to pursuing
                                  other means to expand the list membership and would appreciate any
                                  suggestions. There must be a lot of collectors in Europe and Asia for
                                  instance that we could invite on board.
                                  >  
                                  <snip>
                                • Milan Zahorcak
                                  Dan, I ve never seen a Morrison copy or fake - but I suppose there is always a first time. But where they got the optics is beyond me. However, I am aware of
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 16, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Message
                                     
                                    Dan,
                                     
                                    I've never seen a Morrison copy or fake - but I suppose there is always a first time.  But where they got the optics is beyond me.
                                     
                                    However, I am aware of some other copies, fakes and "imitations" - there were a number of off-brand "Imitation Dallmeyer" lenses that were advertised as such.  The absolute worst example of a "imitation Dallmeyer" is this one"
                                     
                                     
                                    This purports to be a Dallmeyer 2A portrait lens.
                                     
                                    Dallmeyer never made anything that looked like that (confirmed by Sean McKenna), there is no serial # etc., the optics are traditional Petzval, not the Dallmeyer variation, and it isn't even the Dallmeyer 2A size (with is much larger).  The engraving is in an odd location (but nicely done) and unlike anything Dallmeyer ever did.
                                     
                                    More interesting is that it almost has to be an American maker because of the radial drive - but I can't associate the construction details to anyone.
                                     
                                    Any one else have any interesting fakes of any sort - cameras or lenses?
                                     
                                    mz
                                     
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com [mailto:woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dcolucci@...
                                    Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:37 AM
                                    To: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [woodandbrass] RE: Re-Entering & Morrison lens mysteries . . .

                                     
                                    Darlot lens fakes have appeared on ebay every now and then....  The engraving, font, or mistaken text highlight the fake.  
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    Benjamin French mentions "imitations" of Darlot's in his advertisements (1890):
                                     
                                     
                                     










































                                    .

















                                     
                                    In a message dated 7/16/2008 1:15:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, milan.zahorcak@... writes:

                                    Marcel,
                                     
                                    So how many of those lenses do I need more than you?  Just send them all and I'll return any that I don't need.
                                     
                                    Speaking of acquiring lenses . . . you knew that was coming, yes . . . I recently picked up a curious little lens that now has me puzzled.
                                     
                                    Richard Morrison was an American optician who quietly got around and worked on some of the more interesting domestic designs ever produced by 3 or 4 different US companies, depending how you count.
                                     
                                    Eventually he established his own company "R. Morrison" around 1870 and produced a number of interesting and confusing designs, largely in order to compete against the increasing popular RR/Aplanat and to get around there patents.
                                     
                                    As far as I can tell, Morrison produced 3, possibly 4 designs, and is widely given credit for a design that I don't think ever went into production (or if it did, it was when he was working for NY Optical Works, but I haven't one of those yet), yet there is only one Morrison Optical Patent:  #126,979 dated May 21, 1872.
                                     
                                    One of the many unfortunate things about Morrison lenses is that they are never? rarely? identified by name, on the lens . . . and then this came along:
                                     
                                     
                                    On the left is his standard design for what he called the "the Wide Angle View" (meaning a landscape lens).  On the right, is a recent acquisition with "Landscape Lens" spelled out - but note that it is an "R. Morrison's" lens, and has neither a patent date, nor serial # . . . and look carefully, the engraving is crude at best.  Look at the sizes (especially the N) and alignment.
                                     
                                    Now here are some curious issues.  On the cover of some of his catalogues, he mentions "Morrison's Landscape" lenses - but inside there is no mention of the word Landscape, and what is spelled out and illustrated are "R. Morrison, Wide Angle View" lenses.
                                     
                                    So, what do we have here?  Is the Landscape lens a knockoff, a copy, home-made?  The optics inside are exactly the same as those found in the WAV to the left.  And the optics are complicated, and as far as I know - were never copied by anyone else.
                                     
                                    It's one thing to copy a wood camera - another to fake a lens.
                                     
                                    Any thoughts?  Other examples of fakes and copies?
                                     
                                    mz
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:woodandbras s@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marcel Safier
                                    Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:56 AM
                                    To: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: RE: [woodandbrass] Re: Entering the fray ... stats

                                    Hello all

                                    I have been away in Canberra for a week of photographic indulgence (a conference plus many exhibitions as part of the Vivid Festival) and only managed to pick up 5 brass lenses and a set of waterhouse stops while there but I got 3 new wood and brass cameras while I was away thanks to eSnipe bless its little cotton socks (a Perken, Son & Rayment, a McGhie and a Wratten & Wainwright).

                                    I too have wondered what has happened to the “other” list members. Only one has contacted me to say he won’t join due to issues with Yahoo groups. Milan not all the current 28 list members are from the old group. I have been actively encouraging new members and I put an announcement about this group on the IDCC list and I have already arranged for the PCCGB membership to be alerted to its existence as Fred suggested. I look forward to pursuing other means to expand the list membership and would appreciate any suggestions. There must be a lot of collectors in Europe and Asia for instance that we could invite on board.

                                    Cheers!

                                    Marcel
                                    --
                                    Marcel Safier (Photographic Historian and Collector)
                                    PO Box 239
                                    Holland Park 4121
                                    Queensland Australia
                                    http://members. ozemail.com. au/~msafier/ index.html

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:woodandbras s@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                                    Milan Zahorcak
                                    Sent:
                                    12 July 2008 02:02
                                    To: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: RE: [woodandbrass] Re: Entering the fray ... stats

                                    My, we are still a quiet and it would appear, a much smaller group . . . and it would seem, more mature.  With few exceptions, most of us qualify for the senior menu at Denny's.  And perhaps we can take a note from Sheri's and refer to each other as Honored Members . . . you know that HM Matt has an appealing ring to it.

                                    So far, it would seem that 27 of the former W&B-1's 69 (digested & undigested) members have signed aboard, and that 14 of us have generously provided background info upon entering the fray.  Any idea what happened to the other 42?  Mortality rates aren't that high even for a mature group such as us.

                                    And, thanks to all those who were willing to go public with their bio's, and perhaps the silent minority might wish to consider adding their afflictions . . . or interests . . . to our list.  It is nice to know who is listening and perhaps who to turn to for advice, and opinions.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:woodandbras s@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                                    marenfred@aol. com
                                    Sent:
                                    13 July 2008 20:48
                                    To: woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: [woodandbrass] membership

                                    It occurs to me that one way we might attract a few knowledgeable new younger members would be by letting our existence be known to members of other camera collecting groups. For instance, John Marriott might give us a little PR in Photographica World. Rob Niederman might give us a little PR in his group's publication. 

                                    What do you think?

                                    Fred






                                    E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
                                    Database version: 5.10270e
                                    http://www.pctools. com/spyware- doctor/





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                                  • Scott B.
                                    Just a quick note to say I joined the group today. I m looking forward to speaking with other wood and brass collectors. My camera collection is maybe 1/3
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 31, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Just a quick note to say I joined the group today. I'm looking
                                      forward to speaking with other wood and brass collectors.

                                      My camera collection is maybe 1/3 W&B. It's not my main focus - I
                                      don't have one, but it's a passionate pursuit. My interests span the
                                      continents. I'm as enamored with a George Hare as a Scovill or Lorillon.

                                      I think I'll be able to come up with plenty of questions for the more
                                      specialized group members and hopefully add something of interest to
                                      the discussions.

                                      happy trails,
                                      Scott Bilotta



                                      --- In woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com, "David Purcell"
                                      <david.purcell@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi all!
                                      >
                                      > I'm new to this group, though known to some of you through either the
                                      > IDCC list, PCCGB or eBay.
                                      >
                                      > I have had a casual interest in cameras for many years, but started
                                      > collecting seriously about 7 years ago. My collecting interests are
                                      > quite broad, with the aim of building a collection that illustrates
                                      > the development of cameras up to about the mid-1930s or so, but
                                      > concentrating on rollfilm and plate cameras. Consequently about a
                                      > quarter of my collection qualifies as wood and brass.
                                      >
                                      > While my 'theme' is quite broad my collecting habits are somewhat
                                      > biased to Anglo-American manufacturers. Inevitably I have more
                                      > Kodaks than anything else, although that balance is changing over
                                      > time. I do love high-quality makers such as Watson, Adams and Newman
                                      > & Guardia.
                                      >
                                      > And at the age of 50 maybe I qualify as one of the "younger" members
                                      > of our collecting fraternity? I can't promise to be a frequent
                                      > contributor, not least because of the need to juggle family and work
                                      > commitments around my hobby.
                                      >
                                      > Regards to all from the south coast of England,
                                      >
                                      > David Purcell
                                      >
                                    • marenfred@aol.com
                                      Welcome Scott & David. Good to have you aboard. Fred ... From: Scott B. To: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jul 31, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Welcome Scott & David. Good to have you aboard.
                                        Fred


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Scott B. <silver_recollection@...>
                                        To: woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 3:57 pm
                                        Subject: [woodandbrass] Re: Entering the fray ...

                                        Just a quick note to say I joined the group today. I'm looking
                                        forward to speaking with other wood and brass collectors.

                                        My camera collection is maybe 1/3 W&B. It's not my main focus - I
                                        don't have one, but it's a passionate pursuit. My interests span the
                                        continents. I'm as enamored with a George Hare as a Scovill or Lorillon.

                                        I think I'll be able to come up with plenty of questions for the more
                                        specialized group members and hopefully add something of interest to
                                        the discussions.

                                        happy trails,
                                        Scott Bilotta

                                        --- In woodandbrass@ yahoogroups. com, "David Purcell"
                                        <david.purcell@ ...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hi all!
                                        >
                                        > I'm new to this group, though known to some of you through either the
                                        > IDCC list, PCCGB or eBay.
                                        >
                                        > I have had a casual interest
                                        in cameras for many years, but started
                                        > collecting seriously about 7 years ago. My collecting interests are
                                        > quite broad, with the aim of building a collection that illustrates
                                        > the development of cameras up to about the mid-1930s or so, but
                                        > concentrating on rollfilm and plate cameras. Consequently about a
                                        > quarter of my collection qualifies as wood and brass.
                                        >
                                        > While my 'theme' is quite broad my collecting habits are somewhat
                                        > biased to Anglo-American manufacturers. Inevitably I have more
                                        > Kodaks than anything else, although that balance is changing over
                                        > time. I do love high-quality makers such as Watson, Adams and Newman
                                        > & Guardia.
                                        >
                                        > And at the age of 50 maybe I qualify as one of the "younger" members
                                        > of our collecting fraternity? I can't promise to be a frequent
                                        > contributor, not least because of the need to juggle family and work
                                        > commitments around my hobby.
                                        >
                                        > Regards to all from the south coast of England,
                                        >
                                        > David Purcell
                                        >

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