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2013 first: Field camera labelled Fred VA Lloyd, 15, Lord Street, Liverpool.

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  • ericevans2000
    Research wise, I am better at asking questions than answering them. (You may have noticed). Fred VA Lloyd has always been known as a retailer, from the time he
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 10, 2013
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      Research wise, I am better at asking questions than answering them. (You may have noticed). Fred VA Lloyd has always been known as a retailer, from the time he went into business on his own, but in 1898 he took over the business and manufacturing capacity of Henry Newton, camera maker, of 5, South John Street, Liverpool. My question is, what did he then do with Newton's works? I feel it would be a stretch of the imagination to assume he just closed it all down and continued as a retailer only of bought in cameras. By 1900 he was operating from 15 Lord Street, adjacent to a previous known address of Newton's, and camera labels are known with his and Newton's names together on them, at a time when he presumably needed it to be known that he had taken over Newtons' goodwill. I am assuming, from the fact that the label on my latest camera (see album) is craftsman inlaid (and not screwed on, as retailers' labels usually are), that this particular camera was actually made by Lloyd's firm with the machinery he had taken over from Newtons, and was labelled by Lloyd with his own label when he had established himself as the new owner and maker, so maybe into the 1910s. I am cataloguing it as made by Lloyd. Any alternative hypotheses would be welcomed. The camera itself, despite its shape, is for all practical purposes, a tailboard camera, with focusing via a moving back on rack and pinion.There is plenty of rear tilt and swing, but no front movements. Strange.
      Eric.
      Eric.
    • rob_tooley
      Eric, There was possibly not much manufacturing capacity to do anything with. Early adverts (1870s) from Newton show him to be working in the wholesale &
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 13, 2013
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        Eric, There was possibly not much manufacturing capacity to do anything with. Early adverts (1870s) from Newton show him to be working in the wholesale & export trade, especially chemicals, without mention of manufacture. A few years later his own brand of lenses are shown; maybe he took on an employee to manufacture lenses in a small way, equally he may have bought lenses in to sell under his brand name.

        Later still cameras are mentioned but it seems unlikely that he had branched out into manufacturing them so close to closing the business. Assuming he was the same newton who started the firm he would have been in his 60s at the time.

        Under Lloyd 'Newton lenses' are still mentioned for many years so whatever the source they must have still been available.

        Incidentally H.B. Sharp of Sharp & Hitchmough worked for Newton. You give the changeover date as 1898, I think it was a bit earlier in 1891.

        Rob

        --- In woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com, "ericevans2000" wrote:
        >
        > Research wise, I am better at asking questions than answering them. (You may have noticed). Fred VA Lloyd has always been known as a retailer, from the time he went into business on his own, but in 1898 he took over the business and manufacturing capacity of Henry Newton, camera maker, of 5, South John Street, Liverpool. My question is, what did he then do with Newton's works? I feel it would be a stretch of the imagination to assume he just closed it all down and continued as a retailer only of bought in cameras. By 1900 he was operating from 15 Lord Street, adjacent to a previous known address of Newton's, and camera labels are known with his and Newton's names together on them, at a time when he presumably needed it to be known that he had taken over Newtons' goodwill. I am assuming, from the fact that the label on my latest camera (see album) is craftsman inlaid (and not screwed on, as retailers' labels usually are), that this particular camera was actually made by Lloyd's firm with the machinery he had taken over from Newtons, and was labelled by Lloyd with his own label when he had established himself as the new owner and maker, so maybe into the 1910s. I am cataloguing it as made by Lloyd. Any alternative hypotheses would be welcomed. The camera itself, despite its shape, is for all practical purposes, a tailboard camera, with focusing via a moving back on rack and pinion.There is plenty of rear tilt and swing, but no front movements. Strange.
        > Eric.
        > Eric.
        >
      • Eric Evans
        Rob, Thanks very much for the information, it is all useful stuff. I have tended to think of them as quite well-off industrialists, but I am realising that
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 13, 2013
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          Rob,
          Thanks very much for the information, it is all useful stuff. I have tended to think of them as quite well-off industrialists, but I am realising that some of these old lads must really have lived lives of quiet desperation, on the edge of profitability in what must have been a cut-throat industry, judging by the number of buy-outs and bankruptcies that I have found among my collection of makers, and at a time when going broke really meant life or death. Each bit of information brings me a bit nearer to recognising the spirit of the times as contained within my collection, and I am grateful for it. 
          As I said, I am better at asking questions than answering them, not because I am idle, but because I don't always have the ability to find what I am looking for. It is nice that members of this group with access to information are so very willing to take the trouble to share it. Much appreciated, Rob, yet again!
          Eric.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:24 AM
          Subject: [woodandbrass] Re: 2013 first: Field camera labelled Fred VA Lloyd, 15, Lord Street, Liverpool.

           

          Eric, There was possibly not much manufacturing capacity to do anything with. Early adverts (1870s) from Newton show him to be working in the wholesale & export trade, especially chemicals, without mention of manufacture. A few years later his own brand of lenses are shown; maybe he took on an employee to manufacture lenses in a small way, equally he may have bought lenses in to sell under his brand name.

          Later still cameras are mentioned but it seems unlikely that he had branched out into manufacturing them so close to closing the business. Assuming he was the same newton who started the firm he would have been in his 60s at the time.

          Under Lloyd 'Newton lenses' are still mentioned for many years so whatever the source they must have still been available.

          Incidentally H.B. Sharp of Sharp & Hitchmough worked for Newton. You give the changeover date as 1898, I think it was a bit earlier in 1891.

          Rob

          --- In woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com, "ericevans2000" wrote:
          >
          > Research wise, I am better at asking questions than answering them. (You may have noticed). Fred VA Lloyd has always been known as a retailer, from the time he went into business on his own, but in 1898 he took over the business and manufacturing capacity of Henry Newton, camera maker, of 5, South John Street, Liverpool. My question is, what did he then do with Newton's works? I feel it would be a stretch of the imagination to assume he just closed it all down and continued as a retailer only of bought in cameras. By 1900 he was operating from 15 Lord Street, adjacent to a previous known address of Newton's, and camera labels are known with his and Newton's names together on them, at a time when he presumably needed it to be known that he had taken over Newtons' goodwill. I am assuming, from the fact that the label on my latest camera (see album) is craftsman inlaid (and not screwed on, as retailers' labels usually are), that this particular camera was actually made by Lloyd's firm with the machinery he had taken over from Newtons, and was labelled by Lloyd with his own label when he had established himself as the new owner and maker, so maybe into the 1910s. I am cataloguing it as made by Lloyd. Any alternative hypotheses would be welcomed. The camera itself, despite its shape, is for all practical purposes, a tailboard camera, with focusing via a moving back on rack and pinion.There is plenty of rear tilt and swing, but no front movements. Strange.
          > Eric.
          > Eric.
          >

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