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C S Baynton of Birmingham, Field Camera C>1891

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  • ericevans2000
    I have just added a photo of this camera in my album. On each side of the baseboard is an upright brass strip, drilled with a single hole. On each side of the
    Message 1 of 15 , May 2, 2012
      I have just added a photo of this camera in my album. On each side of the baseboard is an upright brass strip, drilled with a single hole. On each side of the body, near the base, is a threaded hole, which will take the strut clamping screw, but I can't see any circumstance in which it would need to. The features mentioned are obviously there ab origino, but I have no idea what they are meant to do. Keeping prices competitive meant the old camera makers didn't add anything they didn't consider needful. Any theories as to why Baynton added these extras?
    • Rob McElroy
      Eric, The first thing that comes to mind regarding the brass plates with holes in them on either side of the camera s bed, is that possibly there was
      Message 2 of 15 , May 2, 2012
        Eric,

        The first thing that comes to mind regarding the brass plates with holes in them on either side of the camera's bed, is that possibly there was originally a support bar of some sort that could be slid underneath the bellows and attached to the two holes.  The support bar served to prevent the bellows from sagging when the bellows are fully extended.  Just a guess, of course, but bellows' supports do exist on other cameras with large bellows extensions.

        The threaded hole on each side of the body of the camera at the base might have been used for mounting the camera on the tripod so as to orient the camera for vertical (portrait) photos.  But, if your camera back is removable and can be rotated 90 degrees and re-attached, then that theory is null and void.

        If your camera back is not removable and rotatable, another theory about the holes is that the threaded hole at the back and the brass plate with hole on one side of the camera are related in function to one another.  Maybe there was a support base for vertical shooting which attached via the threaded hole and extended up to the brass plate and aligned with the brass plate's hole.  That would give a considerable amount of support for the camera on its side.

        It's all just theory of course.

        Who actually manufactured the camera?  Was it C S Baynton or was he simply the retailer?  I'd be happy to search my catalogs but I'm not familiar with Baynton.

        Cheers,
        Rob McElroy
        Buffalo, NY


        On May 2, 2012, at 11:19 AM, ericevans2000 wrote:

         

        I have just added a photo of this camera in my album. On each side of the baseboard is an upright brass strip, drilled with a single hole. On each side of the body, near the base, is a threaded hole, which will take the strut clamping screw, but I can't see any circumstance in which it would need to. The features mentioned are obviously there ab origino, but I have no idea what they are meant to do. Keeping prices competitive meant the old camera makers didn't add anything they didn't consider needful. Any theories as to why Baynton added these extras?

        _
      • Eric Evans
        Rob, Thanks for your response and good theories; theories are what I asked for! The camera back is actually reversible from portrait to landscape format. I
        Message 3 of 15 , May 2, 2012
          Rob,
                     Thanks for your response and good theories; theories are what I asked for! The camera back is actually reversible from portrait to landscape format. I like the "support bar" idea for the bellows, and I think your notion of the threaded holes and the vertical strips being somehow connectable has merit, but I am not sure about the reason why they would need to be connected, unless as you suggest, another piece of support equipment was available.
              Since posting, it has occurred to me that the threaded holes may have been designed as fixing points for a diffent kind of rear hinge, using side plates, which did not in the end get off the blueprint and onto the camera.
              The only source I have for C S Baynton is Channing & Dunn. They are very equivocal about Baynton, saying he was a retailer, but finally coming down (I think) on the side of his probably having made some cameras. He is known to have taken over in 1894, the business of S.Hulme, an established and known maker of cameras. The nameplate on my camera, rather than being laid on with screws, is inlaid into the woodwork. This is often, but not invariably, indicative of its having been put there by the maker, not the retailer.
          Regards,
          Eric.
        • Maren /Fred Friedman
          Hi Eric, Just tried to find the Baynton under B on your web site without success. Can you check, please? Thanks, Fred Friedman
          Message 4 of 15 , May 2, 2012
            Hi Eric,
            Just tried to find the Baynton under B on your web site without success. Can you check, please? Thanks,
            Fred Friedman
            On May 2, 2012, at 11:19 AM, ericevans2000 wrote:

             

            I have just added a photo of this camera in my album. On each side of the baseboard is an upright brass strip, drilled with a single hole. On each side of the body, near the base, is a threaded hole, which will take the strut clamping screw, but I can't see any circumstance in which it would need to. The features mentioned are obviously there ab origino, but I have no idea what they are meant to do. Keeping prices competitive meant the old camera makers didn't add anything they didn't consider needful. Any theories as to why Baynton added these extras?


          • Eric Evans
            Hi Fred, My web designer has been incapacitated for a year, so no new entries have been made to my web site in that time, during which I have acquired about
            Message 5 of 15 , May 2, 2012
              Hi Fred,
                        My web designer has been incapacitated for a year, so no new entries have been made to my web site in that time, during which I have acquired about another twenty cameras, including the Baynton, that are awaiting entry to the site. I am totally incapable of doing it myself.
                  Nice Photographica article on Shew!!!
              Regards,
              Eric.
            • Eric Evans
              Fred, I have put the picture in my album on the Yahoo wood and brass site we are on just now.....not on my web site. Eric
              Message 6 of 15 , May 2, 2012
                Fred,
                      I have put the picture in my album on the Yahoo wood and brass site we are on just now.....not on my web site.
                Eric
              • Maren /Fred Friedman
                Is a puzzlement, Eric. Fred
                Message 7 of 15 , May 2, 2012
                  Is a puzzlement, Eric.
                  Fred
                  On May 2, 2012, at 11:19 AM, ericevans2000 wrote:

                   

                  I have just added a photo of this camera in my album. On each side of the baseboard is an upright brass strip, drilled with a single hole. On each side of the body, near the base, is a threaded hole, which will take the strut clamping screw, but I can't see any circumstance in which it would need to. The features mentioned are obviously there ab origino, but I have no idea what they are meant to do. Keeping prices competitive meant the old camera makers didn't add anything they didn't consider needful. Any theories as to why Baynton added these extras?


                • Marcel Safier
                  Eric I don t have any thoughts on the brass fittings. I found quite a bit of info on Baynton in 15 minutes searching. Baynton is always listed as a dealer in
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 2, 2012
                    Eric

                    I don't have any thoughts on the brass fittings. I found quite a bit of info on Baynton in 15 minutes searching. Baynton is always listed as a dealer in photographic goods. He did invent an apparatus for washing prints. I will gather together my findings and forward them to you in a few days when I have more chance to look further. Work beckons!

                    Cheers!

                    Marcel

                    On 3/05/2012 1:19 AM, ericevans2000 wrote:

                    I have just added a photo of this camera in my album. On each side of the baseboard is an upright brass strip, drilled with a single hole. On each side of the body, near the base, is a threaded hole, which will take the strut clamping screw, but I can't see any circumstance in which it would need to. The features mentioned are obviously there ab origino, but I have no idea what they are meant to do. Keeping prices competitive meant the old camera makers didn't add anything they didn't consider needful. Any theories as to why Baynton added these extras?







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                  • roland_meynart
                    Dear all, During long years, I have been a passive member of this group (and also of IDCC). Maybe I did not dare to say anything in this learned group,
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                      Dear all,

                      During long years, I have been a passive member of this group (and also of IDCC). Maybe I did not dare to say anything in this learned group, considering I am not really a grown up in the field. Indeed, I have only 38 wood and brass cameras :-)

                      This time, it is too tempting and I cannot refrain from sharing my hypothesis about the curious brass fittings of the Baynton camera. It is based on the assumption that the rear body can be separated from the baseboard, maybe by sliding it sideways after disconnecting the struts. If it is the case, the body could be repositioned with the threaded holes in front of the holes of the upright brass strips and screwed in this position. The struts would then be reconnected. This would require two additional screws that we can assume went astray some time during the last century. This repositions the body closer to the lensboard, allowing the use of wide-field lenses without the baseboard in the field-of-view.

                      Roland


                      --- In woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com, "ericevans2000" <ericevans2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I have just added a photo of this camera in my album. On each side of the baseboard is an upright brass strip, drilled with a single hole. On each side of the body, near the base, is a threaded hole, which will take the strut clamping screw, but I can't see any circumstance in which it would need to. The features mentioned are obviously there ab origino, but I have no idea what they are meant to do. Keeping prices competitive meant the old camera makers didn't add anything they didn't consider needful. Any theories as to why Baynton added these extras?
                      >
                    • Eric Evans
                      Hi Roland, Thanks for joining in this discussion. It is my bedtime just now, and at 82 I find the journey upstairs to my collection quite an expedition, but I
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                        Hi Roland,
                                       Thanks for joining in this discussion. It is my bedtime just now, and at 82 I find the journey upstairs to my collection quite an expedition, but I will check out your theory tomorrow and report back. I have cameras employing a range of ways of coping with wide angle lenses, sometimes incorporating a drop baseboard, but this one can't do that, so your theory is quite attractive; it is now a question of whether I find the back removable, on closer inspection.
                            And I think having 38 W&B cameras is very grown up! :-)
                        Ereic
                      • Rob McElroy
                        Roland and Eric, I believe Roland has come up with the most plausible theory. When looking closely at the camera, you can see one of the two thumbscrews that
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                          Roland and Eric,

                          I believe Roland has come up with the most plausible theory.

                          When looking closely at the camera, you can see one of the two thumbscrews that lock the back against the two tabs sticking out from underneath the back of the bed.

                          It seems like you could unscrew the two thumbscrews from underneath the back, which would free up the back where it could simply be pivoted (after loosening the tightening-knobs on the struts) into place in the middle of the bed next to the two mystery brass tabs.  The same two thumbscrews would then be inserted into the holes in the mystery brass plates and tightened into the threaded holes on the side of the back - which is occupying its new position in the middle of the bed.

                          Cheers,
                          Rob McElroy
                          Buffalo, NY


                          On May 3, 2012, at 5:03 PM, roland_meynart wrote:

                          Dear all,

                          During long years, I have been a passive member of this group (and also of IDCC). Maybe I did not dare to say anything in this learned group, considering I am not really a grown up in the field. Indeed, I have only 38 wood and brass cameras :-)

                          This time, it is too tempting and I cannot refrain from sharing my hypothesis about the curious brass fittings of the Baynton camera. It is based on the assumption that the rear body can be separated from the baseboard, maybe by sliding it sideways after disconnecting the struts. If it is the case, the body could be repositioned with the threaded holes in front of the holes of the upright brass strips and screwed in this position. The struts would then be reconnected. This would require two additional screws that we can assume went astray some time during the last century. This repositions the body closer to the lensboard, allowing the use of wide-field lenses without the baseboard in the field-of-view.

                          Roland

                        • Eric Evans
                          Rob and Roland, Rob you are right, Roland s theory nailed it, and the sequence is as Rob and Roland outline it. I have put up the only picture I was able to
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 4, 2012
                            Rob and Roland,
                                                   Rob you are right, Roland's theory nailed it, and the sequence is as Rob and Roland outline it. I have put up the only picture I was able to get up, showing the back hinges, held on by two finger screws which are removable in the way you suggest. The back then moves forward and is secured by the same finger screws to the two mystery brackets.
                                Ingenious, but a bit fiddly if you tried to do it in the field while it was on a tripod, and absolutely asking for the screws to get lost. Amazing that they are still there.
                                Next question is, how on earth did I miss that when I had the camera in my hand? Older and dafter, as we say in Yorkshire.
                            Eric.
                          • Eric Evans
                            I have now managed to get another picture into my album which shows the process more clearly. Thanks to all who have taken an interest. Eric.
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 4, 2012
                              I have now managed to get another picture into my album which shows the process more clearly. Thanks to all who have taken an interest.
                              Eric.
                            • roland_meynart
                              Fiddly and not practical, but certainly unique. In that sense, worth collecting! Let me take this opportunity to introduce myself in this group. I am living in
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 4, 2012
                                Fiddly and not practical, but certainly unique. In that sense, worth collecting!

                                Let me take this opportunity to introduce myself in this group. I am living in The Netherlands and I am a collector of vintage optical instruments because of my professional background in optical engineering. I am particularly fond of wood and brass cameras, with a clear preference for British leather-free cameras. I am not looking for the very rare cameras, but for nice examples of classic or curious designs in the period 1880-1910. The choice is essentially driven by what I find beautiful. One can be better described by what one collects: my preferred camera in my collection is a McKellen treble patent camera, in its original outfit. My most wanted? A whole-plate George Hare camera that would fit a superb Hare special slide and its changing box. I bought them some years ago from a collector that had spent 20 infructuous years to look for the fitting camera. Mission impossible, but it keeps me going...

                                I tend to leave the cameras as found, but I am not against some light restoration or reconstitution, to be more exact. For example, it happens very often that lenses are changed over many years of use, leading also to a somewhat lower price. A big pleasure is to find a period lens of the right maker and mount it on the lensboard. When it exactly fits the original flange, it is a triumph :-)

                                That's all for tonight. I hope to be able to contribute more in the future.

                                Cheers

                                Roland


                                --- In woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Evans" <ericevans2@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Rob and Roland,
                                > Rob you are right, Roland's theory nailed it, and the sequence is as Rob and Roland outline it. I have put up the only picture I was able to get up, showing the back hinges, held on by two finger screws which are removable in the way you suggest. The back then moves forward and is secured by the same finger screws to the two mystery brackets.
                                > Ingenious, but a bit fiddly if you tried to do it in the field while it was on a tripod, and absolutely asking for the screws to get lost. Amazing that they are still there.
                                > Next question is, how on earth did I miss that when I had the camera in my hand? Older and dafter, as we say in Yorkshire.
                                > Eric.
                                >
                              • Maren /Fred Friedman
                                Very pleased to have you with us Roland. Welcome. Fred who loves British wood and brass fron 1860 - 1900 - in Cliffside Park, NJ
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 4, 2012
                                  Very pleased to have you with us Roland. Welcome.
                                  Fred who loves British wood and brass fron 1860 - 1900 - in Cliffside Park, NJ
                                  On May 4, 2012, at 4:49 PM, roland_meynart wrote:

                                   

                                  Fiddly and not practical, but certainly unique. In that sense, worth collecting!

                                  Let me take this opportunity to introduce myself in this group. I am living in The Netherlands and I am a collector of vintage optical instruments because of my professional background in optical engineering. I am particularly fond of wood and brass cameras, with a clear preference for British leather-free cameras. I am not looking for the very rare cameras, but for nice examples of classic or curious designs in the period 1880-1910. The choice is essentially driven by what I find beautiful. One can be better described by what one collects: my preferred camera in my collection is a McKellen treble patent camera, in its original outfit. My most wanted? A whole-plate George Hare camera that would fit a superb Hare special slide and its changing box. I bought them some years ago from a collector that had spent 20 infructuous years to look for the fitting camera. Mission impossible, but it keeps me going...

                                  I tend to leave the cameras as found, but I am not against some light restoration or reconstitution, to be more exact. For example, it happens very often that lenses are changed over many years of use, leading also to a somewhat lower price. A big pleasure is to find a period lens of the right maker and mount it on the lensboard. When it exactly fits the original flange, it is a triumph :-)

                                  That's all for tonight. I hope to be able to contribute more in the future.

                                  Cheers

                                  Roland

                                  --- In woodandbrass@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Evans" <ericevans2@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Rob and Roland,
                                  > Rob you are right, Roland's theory nailed it, and the sequence is as Rob and Roland outline it. I have put up the only picture I was able to get up, showing the back hinges, held on by two finger screws which are removable in the way you suggest. The back then moves forward and is secured by the same finger screws to the two mystery brackets.
                                  > Ingenious, but a bit fiddly if you tried to do it in the field while it was on a tripod, and absolutely asking for the screws to get lost. Amazing that they are still there.
                                  > Next question is, how on earth did I miss that when I had the camera in my hand? Older and dafter, as we say in Yorkshire.
                                  > Eric.
                                  >


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