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Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown

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  • Stephen Tripp
    Thank you, Sven. I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not being an officer of any significant level, I wasn t willing to institute
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
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      Thank you, Sven.

      I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not
      being an officer of any significant level, I wasn't willing to
      institute a fight with the Exchequers over this, so I went with what
      would make Aldith happy for the event.

      I just wanted to toss this out so the discussion could happen, and
      possibly be clarified over time.

      Edric

      On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, sven gotfriedson wrote:

      > I don't know....
      > There is a good argument for both choices. With that being said My
      > two cents worth.
      > Wife/husband show up. Husband always holds on to Wife's card due to
      > lists and so she keeps a picture of her up to date card on her
      > smart phone. And the picture is clear enough that you can tell that
      > it hasn't been tampered with I.E. the dates, Why not? I actually
      > think in this day and age it's a great idea.
      > YIS/MTC
      > Sven
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@...>
      > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:04 PM
      > Subject: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
      >
      >
      > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
      > thought should be formalized:
      >
      > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
      > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
      > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
      > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
      > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
      > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
      > know as quickly as possible.
      >
      > Edric Rannulf
      >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kenneth Flores
      I personally would like to use photos, however the exchequers feel that they are too easily photoshopped. I got this information at Mists Bardic and haven t
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I personally would like to use photos, however the exchequers feel that
        they are too easily photoshopped. I got this information at Mists
        Bardic and haven't had a chance to pitch my side of the argument because
        I could just as easily photoshop my blue card, take it to kinkos and get
        a matching blue card stock.



        I think the membership card style needs to be addressed as the problem,
        not the other way around.



        Francisco



        From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Tripp
        Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM
        To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown





        Thank you, Sven.

        I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not
        being an officer of any significant level, I wasn't willing to
        institute a fight with the Exchequers over this, so I went with what
        would make Aldith happy for the event.

        I just wanted to toss this out so the discussion could happen, and
        possibly be clarified over time.

        Edric

        On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, sven gotfriedson wrote:

        > I don't know....
        > There is a good argument for both choices. With that being said My
        > two cents worth.
        > Wife/husband show up. Husband always holds on to Wife's card due to
        > lists and so she keeps a picture of her up to date card on her
        > smart phone. And the picture is clear enough that you can tell that
        > it hasn't been tampered with I.E. the dates, Why not? I actually
        > think in this day and age it's a great idea.
        > YIS/MTC
        > Sven
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@...
        <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com> >
        > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:04 PM
        > Subject: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
        >
        >
        > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
        > thought should be formalized:
        >
        > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
        > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
        > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
        > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
        > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
        > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
        > know as quickly as possible.
        >
        > Edric Rannulf
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rivenoak Constable
        I m going to side with the Exchequers on this one. The Blue Cards represent a legal document that must be signed if they are to be valid. A photo is not a
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          I'm going to side with the Exchequers on this one. The Blue Cards represent
          a legal document that must be signed if they are to be valid. A photo is
          not a legal document. I realize that this goes a little beyond what the
          folks at Gate are responsible for but, ultimately, it's the CiC's
          responsibility to make sure that all the legal documents are filled out
          properly. I think that allowing for facsimiles to be valid for gate sign in
          can open us up for more legal issues than the slight convenience a picture
          might have.



          Just my twa ducats from an old country constable..



          Gregor





          From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of Kenneth Flores
          Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:56 PM
          To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown





          I personally would like to use photos, however the exchequers feel that
          they are too easily photoshopped. I got this information at Mists
          Bardic and haven't had a chance to pitch my side of the argument because
          I could just as easily photoshop my blue card, take it to kinkos and get
          a matching blue card stock.

          I think the membership card style needs to be addressed as the problem,
          not the other way around.

          Francisco

          From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Stephen Tripp
          Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM
          To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>

          Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown

          Thank you, Sven.

          I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not
          being an officer of any significant level, I wasn't willing to
          institute a fight with the Exchequers over this, so I went with what
          would make Aldith happy for the event.

          I just wanted to toss this out so the discussion could happen, and
          possibly be clarified over time.

          Edric

          On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, sven gotfriedson wrote:

          > I don't know....
          > There is a good argument for both choices. With that being said My
          > two cents worth.
          > Wife/husband show up. Husband always holds on to Wife's card due to
          > lists and so she keeps a picture of her up to date card on her
          > smart phone. And the picture is clear enough that you can tell that
          > it hasn't been tampered with I.E. the dates, Why not? I actually
          > think in this day and age it's a great idea.
          > YIS/MTC
          > Sven
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@... <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com>
          <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com> >
          > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:04 PM
          > Subject: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
          >
          >
          > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
          > thought should be formalized:
          >
          > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
          > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
          > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
          > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
          > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
          > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
          > know as quickly as possible.
          >
          > Edric Rannulf
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • sven gotfriedson
          I of coarse will do it the way that the Excequer wants it but I would like to be in on the conversation when it is discussed. BTW I also caught that Elis was
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I of coarse will do it the way that the Excequer wants it but I would like to be in on the conversation when it is discussed. BTW I also caught that Elis was there and put the kobosh on photographic proof too. Good luck. ;0)
            Sven


            ________________________________
            From: Kenneth Flores <kflores@...>
            To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:55 PM
            Subject: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown


             
            I personally would like to use photos, however the exchequers feel that
            they are too easily photoshopped. I got this information at Mists
            Bardic and haven't had a chance to pitch my side of the argument because
            I could just as easily photoshop my blue card, take it to kinkos and get
            a matching blue card stock.

            I think the membership card style needs to be addressed as the problem,
            not the other way around.

            Francisco

            From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Tripp
            Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM
            To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown

            Thank you, Sven.

            I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not
            being an officer of any significant level, I wasn't willing to
            institute a fight with the Exchequers over this, so I went with what
            would make Aldith happy for the event.

            I just wanted to toss this out so the discussion could happen, and
            possibly be clarified over time.

            Edric

            On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, sven gotfriedson wrote:

            > I don't know....
            > There is a good argument for both choices. With that being said My
            > two cents worth.
            > Wife/husband show up. Husband always holds on to Wife's card due to
            > lists and so she keeps a picture of her up to date card on her
            > smart phone. And the picture is clear enough that you can tell that
            > it hasn't been tampered with I.E. the dates, Why not? I actually
            > think in this day and age it's a great idea.
            > YIS/MTC
            > Sven
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@...
            <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com> >
            > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:04 PM
            > Subject: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
            >
            >
            > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
            > thought should be formalized:
            >
            > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
            > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
            > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
            > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
            > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
            > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
            > know as quickly as possible.
            >
            > Edric Rannulf
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kenneth Flores
            Yes she was. But I will sit down and talk with her about it. Other officers are already accepting copies and photos of the blue card (Lists), and they are
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Yes she was. But I will sit down and talk with her about it. Other officers are already accepting copies and photos of the blue card (Lists), and they are just as liable for safety and valid proofs of membership. So if I get a chance I will talk to her at Crown.



              Francisco



              From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sven gotfriedson
              Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:11 PM
              To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown





              I of coarse will do it the way that the Excequer wants it but I would like to be in on the conversation when it is discussed. BTW I also caught that Elis was there and put the kobosh on photographic proof too. Good luck. ;0)
              Sven

              ________________________________
              From: Kenneth Flores <kflores@... <mailto:kflores%40pahl-mccay.com> >
              To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:55 PM
              Subject: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown


              I personally would like to use photos, however the exchequers feel that
              they are too easily photoshopped. I got this information at Mists
              Bardic and haven't had a chance to pitch my side of the argument because
              I could just as easily photoshop my blue card, take it to kinkos and get
              a matching blue card stock.

              I think the membership card style needs to be addressed as the problem,
              not the other way around.

              Francisco

              From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
              [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Stephen Tripp
              Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM
              To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown

              Thank you, Sven.

              I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not
              being an officer of any significant level, I wasn't willing to
              institute a fight with the Exchequers over this, so I went with what
              would make Aldith happy for the event.

              I just wanted to toss this out so the discussion could happen, and
              possibly be clarified over time.

              Edric

              On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, sven gotfriedson wrote:

              > I don't know....
              > There is a good argument for both choices. With that being said My
              > two cents worth.
              > Wife/husband show up. Husband always holds on to Wife's card due to
              > lists and so she keeps a picture of her up to date card on her
              > smart phone. And the picture is clear enough that you can tell that
              > it hasn't been tampered with I.E. the dates, Why not? I actually
              > think in this day and age it's a great idea.
              > YIS/MTC
              > Sven
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@... <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com>
              <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com> >
              > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
              <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:04 PM
              > Subject: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
              >
              >
              > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
              > thought should be formalized:
              >
              > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
              > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
              > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
              > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
              > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
              > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
              > know as quickly as possible.
              >
              > Edric Rannulf
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David George
              Here is my thought. Not entirely in jest. Put bar codes on blue cards. Allow electronic images of the cards. Design a bar code reader app that would allow
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Here is my thought. Not entirely in jest.

                Put bar codes on blue cards. Allow electronic images of the cards. Design a bar code reader app that would allow you to scan a blue card into a roster which can be printed out and given to exchequers etc.

                If they are allowing electronic images for plane tickets/boarding passes, it should probably be okay for our purposes.

                Dafydd

                David A. George

                Ham call sign: KB3SHD

                On Sep 28, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Kenneth Flores <kflores@...> wrote:

                > Yes she was. But I will sit down and talk with her about it. Other officers are already accepting copies and photos of the blue card (Lists), and they are just as liable for safety and valid proofs of membership. So if I get a chance I will talk to her at Crown.
                >
                >
                >
                > Francisco
                >
                >
                >
                > From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sven gotfriedson
                > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:11 PM
                > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I of coarse will do it the way that the Excequer wants it but I would like to be in on the conversation when it is discussed. BTW I also caught that Elis was there and put the kobosh on photographic proof too. Good luck. ;0)
                > Sven
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Kenneth Flores <kflores@... <mailto:kflores%40pahl-mccay.com> >
                > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:55 PM
                > Subject: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                >
                >
                > I personally would like to use photos, however the exchequers feel that
                > they are too easily photoshopped. I got this information at Mists
                > Bardic and haven't had a chance to pitch my side of the argument because
                > I could just as easily photoshop my blue card, take it to kinkos and get
                > a matching blue card stock.
                >
                > I think the membership card style needs to be addressed as the problem,
                > not the other way around.
                >
                > Francisco
                >
                > From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                > [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Stephen Tripp
                > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM
                > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                >
                > Thank you, Sven.
                >
                > I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not
                > being an officer of any significant level, I wasn't willing to
                > institute a fight with the Exchequers over this, so I went with what
                > would make Aldith happy for the event.
                >
                > I just wanted to toss this out so the discussion could happen, and
                > possibly be clarified over time.
                >
                > Edric
                >
                > On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, sven gotfriedson wrote:
                >
                > > I don't know....
                > > There is a good argument for both choices. With that being said My
                > > two cents worth.
                > > Wife/husband show up. Husband always holds on to Wife's card due to
                > > lists and so she keeps a picture of her up to date card on her
                > > smart phone. And the picture is clear enough that you can tell that
                > > it hasn't been tampered with I.E. the dates, Why not? I actually
                > > think in this day and age it's a great idea.
                > > YIS/MTC
                > > Sven
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@... <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com>
                > <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com> >
                > > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                > <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:04 PM
                > > Subject: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                > >
                > >
                > > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
                > > thought should be formalized:
                > >
                > > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
                > > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
                > > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
                > > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
                > > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
                > > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
                > > know as quickly as possible.
                > >
                > > Edric Rannulf
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kenneth Flores
                That is something that has to be done on a Society Level. Which I brought up with Rusty at the last BoD meeting. Either barcode or RFID chips. Something to
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  That is something that has to be done on a Society Level. Which I brought up with Rusty at the last BoD meeting. Either barcode or RFID chips. Something to streamline the process. He’s looking into it. It would also make it so you don’t have to have your most recent slip of paper in your wallet. It would be more like a credit card.



                  It’s in the works. Bear with us, the society is still wrapping it’s head around the whole internet and technology thing.



                  From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David George
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:24 PM
                  To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown





                  Here is my thought. Not entirely in jest.

                  Put bar codes on blue cards. Allow electronic images of the cards. Design a bar code reader app that would allow you to scan a blue card into a roster which can be printed out and given to exchequers etc.

                  If they are allowing electronic images for plane tickets/boarding passes, it should probably be okay for our purposes.

                  Dafydd

                  David A. George

                  Ham call sign: KB3SHD

                  On Sep 28, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Kenneth Flores <kflores@... <mailto:kflores%40pahl-mccay.com> > wrote:

                  > Yes she was. But I will sit down and talk with her about it. Other officers are already accepting copies and photos of the blue card (Lists), and they are just as liable for safety and valid proofs of membership. So if I get a chance I will talk to her at Crown.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Francisco
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sven gotfriedson
                  > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:11 PM
                  > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I of coarse will do it the way that the Excequer wants it but I would like to be in on the conversation when it is discussed. BTW I also caught that Elis was there and put the kobosh on photographic proof too. Good luck. ;0)
                  > Sven
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Kenneth Flores <kflores@... <mailto:kflores%40pahl-mccay.com> <mailto:kflores%40pahl-mccay.com> >
                  > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:55 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                  >
                  >
                  > I personally would like to use photos, however the exchequers feel that
                  > they are too easily photoshopped. I got this information at Mists
                  > Bardic and haven't had a chance to pitch my side of the argument because
                  > I could just as easily photoshop my blue card, take it to kinkos and get
                  > a matching blue card stock.
                  >
                  > I think the membership card style needs to be addressed as the problem,
                  > not the other way around.
                  >
                  > Francisco
                  >
                  > From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Stephen Tripp
                  > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM
                  > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                  >
                  > Thank you, Sven.
                  >
                  > I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not
                  > being an officer of any significant level, I wasn't willing to
                  > institute a fight with the Exchequers over this, so I went with what
                  > would make Aldith happy for the event.
                  >
                  > I just wanted to toss this out so the discussion could happen, and
                  > possibly be clarified over time.
                  >
                  > Edric
                  >
                  > On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, sven gotfriedson wrote:
                  >
                  > > I don't know....
                  > > There is a good argument for both choices. With that being said My
                  > > two cents worth.
                  > > Wife/husband show up. Husband always holds on to Wife's card due to
                  > > lists and so she keeps a picture of her up to date card on her
                  > > smart phone. And the picture is clear enough that you can tell that
                  > > it hasn't been tampered with I.E. the dates, Why not? I actually
                  > > think in this day and age it's a great idea.
                  > > YIS/MTC
                  > > Sven
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > > From: Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@... <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com> <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com>
                  > <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com> >
                  > > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:04 PM
                  > > Subject: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
                  > > thought should be formalized:
                  > >
                  > > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
                  > > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
                  > > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
                  > > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
                  > > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
                  > > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
                  > > know as quickly as possible.
                  > >
                  > > Edric Rannulf
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ginni Morgan
                  The signature on a blue card can be argued as a contract. It is my understanding that in California, photocopies of signed contracts and other legal documents
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The signature on a blue card can be argued as a contract. It is my understanding that in California, photocopies of signed contracts and other legal documents have the same force and effect (validity) as the original itself and can be accepted in court in lieu of a missing original. Or something to that effect. I don't have time to do the actual legal research on it, but some one of our lawyers ought to be able to give you a an opinion on the subject.

                    Gwenhwyfaer

                    >>> Kenneth Flores <kflores@...> 9/28/11 4:19 PM >>>
                    Yes she was. But I will sit down and talk with her about it. Other officers are already accepting copies and photos of the blue card (Lists), and they are just as liable for safety and valid proofs of membership. So if I get a chance I will talk to her at Crown.



                    Francisco



                    From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sven gotfriedson
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:11 PM
                    To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown





                    I of coarse will do it the way that the Excequer wants it but I would like to be in on the conversation when it is discussed. BTW I also caught that Elis was there and put the kobosh on photographic proof too. Good luck. ;0)
                    Sven

                    ________________________________
                    From: Kenneth Flores <kflores@... <mailto:kflores%40pahl-mccay.com> >
                    To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:55 PM
                    Subject: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown


                    I personally would like to use photos, however the exchequers feel that
                    they are too easily photoshopped. I got this information at Mists
                    Bardic and haven't had a chance to pitch my side of the argument because
                    I could just as easily photoshop my blue card, take it to kinkos and get
                    a matching blue card stock.

                    I think the membership card style needs to be addressed as the problem,
                    not the other way around.

                    Francisco

                    From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Stephen Tripp
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM
                    To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown

                    Thank you, Sven.

                    I, like you, happen to be of two minds on the subject. However, not
                    being an officer of any significant level, I wasn't willing to
                    institute a fight with the Exchequers over this, so I went with what
                    would make Aldith happy for the event.

                    I just wanted to toss this out so the discussion could happen, and
                    possibly be clarified over time.

                    Edric

                    On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, sven gotfriedson wrote:

                    > I don't know....
                    > There is a good argument for both choices. With that being said My
                    > two cents worth.
                    > Wife/husband show up. Husband always holds on to Wife's card due to
                    > lists and so she keeps a picture of her up to date card on her
                    > smart phone. And the picture is clear enough that you can tell that
                    > it hasn't been tampered with I.E. the dates, Why not? I actually
                    > think in this day and age it's a great idea.
                    > YIS/MTC
                    > Sven
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@... <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com>
                    <mailto:stephentripp%40mac.com> >
                    > To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                    <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:04 PM
                    > Subject: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                    >
                    >
                    > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
                    > thought should be formalized:
                    >
                    > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
                    > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
                    > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
                    > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
                    > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
                    > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
                    > know as quickly as possible.
                    >
                    > Edric Rannulf
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication.
                  • Daniel Wagner
                    The point is, in the West we trust people. We can certainly trust folks for the completely insignificant amount of money involved, esp as the wkwk would cover
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
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                      The point is, in the West we trust people.

                      We can certainly trust folks for the completely insignificant amount of money involved, esp as the wkwk would cover it anyway.
                      Wulfy


                      Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Daniel Wagner
                      The waiver is more or less worthless as legal protection, anyway. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The waiver is more or less worthless as legal protection, anyway.


                        Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • sven gotfriedson
                        Actually Wulfy, WKWC is having a hard time covering the NMS. The donations to the cause have been very low. I believe that we as a constabulary group should
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Actually Wulfy,
                          WKWC is having a hard time covering the NMS. The donations to the cause have been very low. I believe that we as a constabulary group should make sure that people that use it aren't abusing it. I realize that That Flieg would say "no no no" As long as I can do it I will" but there are people that I have seen use it just because it's there. There is a misnomer out there that WKWC has an inexhaustible account. Now before I put my foot in it here, please know that I do feel that those that truly needed it should use it, But we as CIC/constables should discourage improper use of the WKWC for anything other than it's intended use.
                          Putting soap box away now.
                          Sven


                          ________________________________
                          From: Daniel Wagner <wulfstand@...>
                          To: "wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com" <wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com>; "Ginni.Morgan@..." <Ginni.Morgan@...>
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 5:10 PM
                          Subject: Re: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown


                           
                          The point is, in the West we trust people.

                          We can certainly trust folks for the completely insignificant amount of money involved, esp as the wkwk would cover it anyway.
                          Wulfy

                          Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • oldwolf1@sbcglobal.net
                          ... I was told from on high that I need to see either the Blue Card, a current Page, or printed membership receipt to validate membership, and afterall, that s
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 28, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Tripp <stephentripp@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > A question that came up and was dealt with at Mists Bardic, but I
                            > thought should be formalized:
                            >
                            > How are blue cards going to be dealt with at Crown? Will
                            > photographic evidence on smartphones be allowed? I know that Eilis
                            > and Aldith (while I was working with Aldith at Mists Bardic) were of
                            > the opinion that such photos were NOT allowable, and the folks who
                            > didn't have their blue cards on them had to sign the waiver forms.
                            > If this is going to be the gate policy at Crown, we should let folks
                            > know as quickly as possible.
                            >
                            > Edric Rannulf
                            >


                            I was told from on high that I need to see either the Blue Card, a current Page, or printed membership receipt to validate membership, and afterall, that's what this is about. Validating ones membership. Imho I think it's just more makework for us at Gate. I know most faces when I see them, so I know who's who. And tell them the fees that they need to know if they don't already.

                            Brian
                            Constable of Fettburg.
                          • Glenn Gorsuch
                            Um, I don t think we can do this, acting as Constables. The WKWC is something that a non-official group of good-hearted individuals is doing, and discouraging
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 29, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Um, I don't think we can do this, acting as Constables. The WKWC is
                              something that a non-official group of good-hearted individuals is doing,
                              and discouraging ANYONE from using it, no matter how much the abuse the
                              priviledge, is counter to the wishes of the founder of the WKWC, as I
                              understand it.

                              What we CAN do, if time and such permit, is remind people that the WKWC is
                              largely funded by donations...and make sure we're willing to answer
                              questions about it, and make sure the donation box is prominently visible.

                              Then again, I have a couple good friends who don't like the whole NMS thing,
                              and as a result, refuse to become members of the Society. They take the
                              WKWC up on their offer every time...and donate $5 or more to the WKWC each
                              and every time they do so. Just to prove their point.

                              And Brian, the point of those whole card kerfuffle is that we AREN'T
                              supposed to rely on fallible memory any more or anything like trust. After
                              all, *I* am a friend of yours, right? Can you tell me when MY card
                              expires? Or even say if I have a blue or white card?

                              One other thing--the waiver-text *isn't* of "negligible value". Of course,
                              people have the right to sue whomever, whatever they sign. But the waiver
                              text goes a long way to showing the judge if they DO sue that hey, we tried
                              to tell them this was potentially dangerous, and it's not OUR fault if Bobo
                              the Earless didn't listen when we yelled at him NOT to go wandering out onto
                              the Lists Field when fighting was happening.

                              On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:35 PM, sven gotfriedson <
                              sven_gotfriedson@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > Actually Wulfy,
                              > WKWC is having a hard time covering the NMS. The donations to the cause
                              > have been very low. I believe that we as a constabulary group should make
                              > sure that people that use it aren't abusing it. I realize that That Flieg
                              > would say "no no no" As long as I can do it I will" but there are people
                              > that I have seen use it just because it's there. There is a misnomer out
                              > there that WKWC has an inexhaustible account. Now before I put my foot in it
                              > here, please know that I do feel that those that truly needed it should use
                              > it, But we as CIC/constables should discourage improper use of the WKWC for
                              > anything other than it's intended use.
                              > Putting soap box away now.
                              > Sven
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Daniel Wagner <wulfstand@...>
                              > To: "wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com" <wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com>; "
                              > Ginni.Morgan@..." <Ginni.Morgan@...>
                              > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 5:10 PM
                              > Subject: Re: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                              >
                              >
                              > The point is, in the West we trust people.
                              >
                              > We can certainly trust folks for the completely insignificant amount of
                              > money involved, esp as the wkwk would cover it anyway.
                              > Wulfy
                              >
                              > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John LaTorre
                              ... Not so. The United States Hang Gliding association has been relying on the protection of waivers for decades. In every case where the waiver has been
                              Message 14 of 20 , Sep 29, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Wulfstan wrote:

                                > The waiver is more or less worthless as legal protection, anyway.

                                Not so. The United States Hang Gliding association has been relying on
                                the protection of waivers for decades. In every case where the waiver
                                has been contested, courts have confirmed their validity.

                                This assumes, of course, that the waiver is properly written, but that
                                issue I'll leave to the lawyers.

                                --Johann von Drachenfels
                              • Kenneth Flores
                                In regards to the WKWC: His Grace has stated that as long as at least 50% of the cost of the providing it is donated by the populace, he will continue to run
                                Message 15 of 20 , Sep 29, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  In regards to the WKWC: His Grace has stated that as long as at least
                                  50% of the cost of the providing it is donated by the populace, he will
                                  continue to run it. Now I know that we are not getting 50% at a
                                  kingdom level. And from what I have seen, we are far from getting that
                                  at a local level. Unless people find a means to be generous the WKWC
                                  will go away within a year or two.

                                  Personally, I believe in the WKWC and oppose the NMS, I just want to lay
                                  that out on the table.

                                  I would encourage all the local constables to put together a WKWC box
                                  for your local group, but only if you believe in the cause. I won't
                                  force anyone to make a donation box if they don't want to. And
                                  encourage people to donate if they can. This is one of the only ways
                                  we'll be able to keep the WKWC going now that the NMS is 5 bucks a
                                  person.

                                  Francisco

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Gorsuch
                                  Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:45 AM
                                  To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [West Constables] was-Blue cards and sign-in at gate at
                                  Crown now WKWC usage.

                                  Um, I don't think we can do this, acting as Constables. The WKWC is
                                  something that a non-official group of good-hearted individuals is
                                  doing, and discouraging ANYONE from using it, no matter how much the
                                  abuse the priviledge, is counter to the wishes of the founder of the
                                  WKWC, as I understand it.

                                  What we CAN do, if time and such permit, is remind people that the WKWC
                                  is largely funded by donations...and make sure we're willing to answer
                                  questions about it, and make sure the donation box is prominently
                                  visible.

                                  Then again, I have a couple good friends who don't like the whole NMS
                                  thing, and as a result, refuse to become members of the Society. They
                                  take the WKWC up on their offer every time...and donate $5 or more to
                                  the WKWC each and every time they do so. Just to prove their point.

                                  And Brian, the point of those whole card kerfuffle is that we AREN'T
                                  supposed to rely on fallible memory any more or anything like trust.
                                  After all, *I* am a friend of yours, right? Can you tell me when MY
                                  card expires? Or even say if I have a blue or white card?

                                  One other thing--the waiver-text *isn't* of "negligible value". Of
                                  course, people have the right to sue whomever, whatever they sign. But
                                  the waiver text goes a long way to showing the judge if they DO sue that
                                  hey, we tried to tell them this was potentially dangerous, and it's not
                                  OUR fault if Bobo the Earless didn't listen when we yelled at him NOT to
                                  go wandering out onto the Lists Field when fighting was happening.

                                  On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:35 PM, sven gotfriedson <
                                  sven_gotfriedson@...> wrote:

                                  > **
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Actually Wulfy,
                                  > WKWC is having a hard time covering the NMS. The donations to the
                                  > cause have been very low. I believe that we as a constabulary group
                                  > should make sure that people that use it aren't abusing it. I realize
                                  > that That Flieg would say "no no no" As long as I can do it I will"
                                  > but there are people that I have seen use it just because it's there.
                                  > There is a misnomer out there that WKWC has an inexhaustible account.
                                  > Now before I put my foot in it here, please know that I do feel that
                                  > those that truly needed it should use it, But we as CIC/constables
                                  > should discourage improper use of the WKWC for anything other than
                                  it's intended use.
                                  > Putting soap box away now.
                                  > Sven
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: Daniel Wagner <wulfstand@...>
                                  > To: "wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com" <wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com>;
                                  "
                                  > Ginni.Morgan@..." <Ginni.Morgan@...>
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 5:10 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at
                                  > Crown
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The point is, in the West we trust people.
                                  >
                                  > We can certainly trust folks for the completely insignificant amount
                                  > of money involved, esp as the wkwk would cover it anyway.
                                  > Wulfy
                                  >
                                  > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  ------------------------------------

                                  or go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wkconstabulary

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                • oldwolf1@sbcglobal.net
                                  ... Point is, that at some point we have to rely on trust(My own issues not withstanding). As Francisco already stated, Blue Cards can be made from card stock
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Sep 29, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Um, I don't think we can do this, acting as Constables. The WKWC is
                                    > something that a non-official group of good-hearted individuals is doing,
                                    > and discouraging ANYONE from using it, no matter how much the abuse the
                                    > priviledge, is counter to the wishes of the founder of the WKWC, as I
                                    > understand it.
                                    >
                                    > What we CAN do, if time and such permit, is remind people that the WKWC is
                                    > largely funded by donations...and make sure we're willing to answer
                                    > questions about it, and make sure the donation box is prominently visible.
                                    >
                                    > Then again, I have a couple good friends who don't like the whole NMS thing,
                                    > and as a result, refuse to become members of the Society. They take the
                                    > WKWC up on their offer every time...and donate $5 or more to the WKWC each
                                    > and every time they do so. Just to prove their point.
                                    >
                                    > And Brian, the point of those whole card kerfuffle is that we AREN'T
                                    > supposed to rely on fallible memory any more or anything like trust. After
                                    > all, *I* am a friend of yours, right? Can you tell me when MY card
                                    > expires? Or even say if I have a blue or white card?
                                    >
                                    > One other thing--the waiver-text *isn't* of "negligible value". Of course,
                                    > people have the right to sue whomever, whatever they sign. But the waiver
                                    > text goes a long way to showing the judge if they DO sue that hey, we tried
                                    > to tell them this was potentially dangerous, and it's not OUR fault if Bobo
                                    > the Earless didn't listen when we yelled at him NOT to go wandering out onto
                                    > the Lists Field when fighting was happening.
                                    >
                                    > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:35 PM, sven gotfriedson <
                                    > sven_gotfriedson@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > **
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Actually Wulfy,
                                    > > WKWC is having a hard time covering the NMS. The donations to the cause
                                    > > have been very low. I believe that we as a constabulary group should make
                                    > > sure that people that use it aren't abusing it. I realize that That Flieg
                                    > > would say "no no no" As long as I can do it I will" but there are people
                                    > > that I have seen use it just because it's there. There is a misnomer out
                                    > > there that WKWC has an inexhaustible account. Now before I put my foot in it
                                    > > here, please know that I do feel that those that truly needed it should use
                                    > > it, But we as CIC/constables should discourage improper use of the WKWC for
                                    > > anything other than it's intended use.
                                    > > Putting soap box away now.
                                    > > Sven
                                    > >
                                    > > ________________________________
                                    > > From: Daniel Wagner <wulfstand@...>
                                    > > To: "wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com" <wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com>; "
                                    > > Ginni.Morgan@..." <Ginni.Morgan@...>
                                    > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 5:10 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: RE: [West Constables] Blue cards and sign-in at gate at Crown
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > The point is, in the West we trust people.
                                    > >
                                    > > We can certainly trust folks for the completely insignificant amount of
                                    > > money involved, esp as the wkwk would cover it anyway.
                                    > > Wulfy
                                    > >
                                    > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >

                                    Point is, that at some point we have to rely on trust(My own issues not withstanding). As Francisco already stated, Blue Cards can be made from card stock at Kinko's. Especially from those that have been in longer than others, we should expect equal or more trust from them than from other newer members. For what will we be as a Society without it? I will not let this turn me into some paranoid individual sitting at gate asking for a pound of flesh, and birth certificates from at least 3 of their grandparents to prove who they are(Although holding an SCA Blood Drive isn't a bad idea). If we can't trust ourselves, or our Society, who can we trust??? For without it, society collapses.

                                    Brian
                                  • Kenneth Flores
                                    Please no pounds of flesh, the lost and found is special enough as it is. I don t need smelly chunks of flesh in there as well. Francisco Point is, that at
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Sep 29, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Please no pounds of flesh, the lost and found is special enough as it
                                      is. I don't need smelly chunks of flesh in there as well.

                                      Francisco

                                      "Point is, that at some point we have to rely on trust(My own issues not
                                      withstanding). As Francisco already stated, Blue Cards can be made from
                                      card stock at Kinko's. Especially from those that have been in longer
                                      than others, we should expect equal or more trust from them than from
                                      other newer members. For what will we be as a Society without it? I will
                                      not let this turn me into some paranoid individual sitting at gate
                                      asking for a pound of flesh, and birth certificates from at least 3 of
                                      their grandparents to prove who they are(Although holding an SCA Blood
                                      Drive isn't a bad idea). If we can't trust ourselves, or our Society,
                                      who can we trust??? For without it, society collapses.

                                      Brian"





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Glenn Gorsuch
                                      Indeed, as our esteemed Francisco has stated (and others already noted) the membership card is about as easy to forge as a identification token can be. And for
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Sep 29, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Indeed, as our esteemed Francisco has stated (and others already noted) the
                                        membership card is about as easy to forge as a identification token can be.
                                        And for heavens' sake, let's not give the BoD the idea to do something more,
                                        like bar-codes, or plastic cards, or embedded RFID tags.

                                        But right now, the rule is to present those little, easily-forgable pieces
                                        of paper. Even when it offends the Western notion of honor (and,
                                        truthfully, having to do so annoys me too.) In point of fact, that's why
                                        the waiver text used to be on all the sign-in forms until recently--we were
                                        able to argue to the BoD that it didn't MATTER what color card, if any that
                                        you had, we made sure EVERYONE had that waiver for a given event.

                                        Just remember, if having to view someone's pasteboard offends your sense of
                                        honor, that our office is also in fealty to the King and our jobs ARE to
                                        follow the rules--doing your job, even if distasteful, is in itself a mark
                                        of honor.

                                        Oh, and it's VERY period, especially for us Welsh folk, to be able to spew
                                        out our lineage back to at least 9 generations at the drop of the proverbial
                                        liripipe. Insist that all pounds of flesh be properly trimmed and seasoned
                                        for cooking.

                                        Gwyn

                                        On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:56 AM, oldwolf1@... <
                                        oldwolf1@...> wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Point is, that at some point we have to rely on trust(My own issues not
                                        > withstanding). As Francisco already stated, Blue Cards can be made from card
                                        > stock at Kinko's. Especially from those that have been in longer than
                                        > others, we should expect equal or more trust from them than from other newer
                                        > members. For what will we be as a Society without it? I will not let this
                                        > turn me into some paranoid individual sitting at gate asking for a pound of
                                        > flesh, and birth certificates from at least 3 of their grandparents to prove
                                        > who they are(Although holding an SCA Blood Drive isn't a bad idea). If we
                                        > can't trust ourselves, or our Society, who can we trust??? For without it,
                                        > society collapses.
                                        >
                                        > Brian
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


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