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RE: [West Constables] FW: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and Sign In Waivers

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  • Kenneth Flores
    All of these questions did come up in our meetings, let me try to address them for you. - There still will be a sign in sheet for individuals who are
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 14, 2011
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      All of these questions did come up in our meetings, let me try to
      address them for you.



      - There still will be a sign in sheet for individuals who are
      non-members, white-card holders, and individuals who forgot their blue
      cards at home.

      - Figuring out if someone is there for an award would fall the
      heralds. And the sign in sheets at events are rarely used to see if
      someone is at an event, and probably shouldn't be used in that manner in
      the first place as the waivers could be considered confidential.
      Wherein the information of who was at the event can only be accessed by
      a subpoena by the courts.

      - Gate will still keep a tally of the number of attendees. A
      sheet is being made right now for that purpose. But this sheet will
      only be a series of numbers or tick marks to give to the exchequers for
      their totals. Comps will either end up on this sheet if they are
      members (Royals in some instances) or they will sign the waiver form (if
      the group is comping someone who this is their first event or they are
      just running in to drop something off for example but are non-members)

      - Tracking someone's attendance can be done a number of ways.
      I know that one way I was able to prove that a person was at an event
      that they said they weren't was to simply go to their Facebook page and
      look at the photos they were tagged in. If they are not supposed to be
      at an event, your constabulary should know. If they are banished, or
      have been R&D'd you can request a list from your Kingdom Exchequer of
      the list of those people. But communication with the office of the
      constabulary is key to keeping people out of events that shouldn't be
      there.

      - There have been a few incidents involving lawsuits over the
      past few years where one party was trying to use the sign in sheets as
      evidence. The way they are right now in the West (with 20 names on a
      sheet) they can not be used in that manner without each individual
      person on that list signing a release form to allow their information to
      be released. Freedom of Information Act I believe. (CAID had to deal
      with this issue a few years ago and this was the resulting ruling, so
      said the Society Exchequer who was CAID's Seneschal at the time)



      I hope this helps and answers your questions. But if you have more
      concerns, I'd love to hear them.



      Francisco



      From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nichollas
      Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:51 AM
      To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [West Constables] FW: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate
      and Sign In Waivers





      Greetings,

      I have a few questions/concerns regarding this policy.
      Without a sign in sheet how would we check to see if certain individuals
      were in attendance, especially if those people were up for awards, or
      not
      supposed to be there. Also won't this wreak havoc with the exchequers
      trying to figure out the head count, or how many people were comped in.
      I
      know some indoor events have a limited head count for the buildings.
      This
      would also make it ridiculously difficult to track someone's attendance
      if
      it were necessary, say that someone is accusing someone else of
      something,
      without a sign in sheet to prove or disprove their attendance it might
      be
      difficult.

      I hope I'm not opening a can of worms, and please also know
      that all of this is said with respect, an open mind, a smile on my face,
      and
      beer in my hand if off duty. J It's just that after having to deal with
      too
      many years of pleah and needing those sheets on several occasion my old
      constable senses kick on with this one.

      Good Journey

      Nichollas Keene

      Retired Senior Teaching Constable

      Captain of the Secret Police of the Summits (Sshhh)

      From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
      wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
      ]
      On Behalf Of Kenneth Flores
      Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:06 AM
      To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [West Constables] FW: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and
      Sign In Waivers

      The announcement I made this morning on SCA West. If you have
      questions, we should discuss it here.

      From: sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
      Behalf Of Kenneth Flores
      Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:55 AM
      To: sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and Sign In Waivers

      Unto the populace of the West, your Kingdom Seneschal, Current Kingdom
      Exchequer, Incoming Kingdom Exchequer and Kingdom Constable send
      greetings.

      After a thoughtful deliberation process with the Society Seneschal and
      the Society Exchequer at the Board of Directors meeting we have
      drastically streamlined the sign-in process for Gate. Starting now the
      following process will be implemented as the sign-in procedure.

      Here is what you need to know:

      --If you are a member with a Blue Card:

      Simply show your Blue Card to the person running gate. They will check
      the expiration date, then take the event fee. That's it! No waiver
      because there is already one on file for you. The only exception for
      this are event specific waivers, such as events where an Equestrian
      waiver is required, then only that waiver is signed when you arrive.

      --If you are a Non-Member or a Member with a White Card:

      Show your White Card and pay the member fee, or Non-Members will pay the
      Non-Member fees (WKWC is still being done at all Kingdom events as far
      as I know). You then will sign the waiver we currently have and then you
      may enter the event as normal. Nothing here changes from the current
      policy for White Card holders and Non-members.

      --Minors with Blue Cards:

      Simply show the Blue card at gate, pay the fee if applicable, and enjoy
      the event.

      --Non-Member Minors or Minor Members with White Cards:

      Standard Minor waiver forms must be signed by the adult that is bringing
      them to the event.

      Clearly there will be situations which will end up being unique and
      bizarre. Please direct those questions to Constable@...
      <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org>
      <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org>
      <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org> who
      will get back to you as soon as possible with how the policy will be
      enforced. Please remember to bring your membership cards with you. Place
      them in your wallets, your purses, in your glove box next to your
      license and registration, or someplace you will not forget them. Your
      Page copy or your receipts printed from the website are still proof of
      membership. However, if this is the only form of identification that
      you can provide, you will still need to sign the waiver sheet as you
      enter the event.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kenneth Flores
      Lord Ioannes, Thank you for your reply to this subject. It is great to be hearing from other kingdoms on how their sign in process is run. Our old process
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 14, 2011
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        Lord Ioannes,



        Thank you for your reply to this subject. It is great to be hearing
        from other kingdoms on how their sign in process is run. Our old
        process was very similar to your current process in the Outlands, the
        only major change was that we allowed the guest to write their member
        number in the box on the sign in sheet.



        After a meeting with the Society Exchequer and the Society Seneschal it
        was deemed unnecessary to keep such a list at this time. Non-members
        will still be signing that form, which has the SCA release of Liability
        statement on the top of it, however members will no longer have to sign
        that form as their waiver is on file at the corporate office.



        Constabulary will keep a tally of attendees to the event of various
        types: Members, Minor members that are paying a reduced rate, Minor
        members that are free (under a certain age) and comps (Royalty) and any
        other category that need to apply for each event.



        Once again, thank you for your imput and if there are any other
        individuals on this list from other kingdoms who would like to describe
        your sign in process, I would love to hear it.



        Francisco

        Kingdom Constable



        From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Barrows
        Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:34 AM
        To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [West Constables] FW: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate
        and Sign In Waivers





        Good Gentles, please pardon the interruption,

        My name is Lord Iohannes Kynith from the Outlands. I used to be the
        Baronial Constable for Caerthe, and since the Outlands does not have a
        Constabulary I opted in to this and a few other lists quite a while ago.

        As a suggestion: We've been taking Blue Cards with no need to sign
        waivers
        for over a year now. What we do is have everyone sign in at Gate. While
        the attendee is filling out Mundane Name, SCA Name & Home (usually
        Barony
        name) the Gate person is filling out the Card #, monetary info
        (non-member
        fee, gate fee, feast fee, check #, etc) on the same form. It provides us
        the maximum amount of info, the least amount of pain for our attendees
        and
        covers those questions brought up by Nichollas.

        If you are wondering how 2 people can be writing on the same page/line
        at
        the same time - the line is half right side up (for the attendee) and
        the
        gate portion is upside down (from the attendee's perspective). I would
        be
        more than happy to track down a PDF if it is of interest. The waiver
        book
        is also there for the non-members and white cards of course.

        YIS

        Iohannes, DSB

        From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
        wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
        ]
        On Behalf Of Nichollas
        Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:51 AM
        To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [West Constables] FW: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate
        and
        Sign In Waivers

        Greetings,

        I have a few questions/concerns regarding this policy.
        Without a sign in sheet how would we check to see if certain individuals
        were in attendance, especially if those people were up for awards, or
        not
        supposed to be there. Also won't this wreak havoc with the exchequers
        trying to figure out the head count, or how many people were comped in.
        I
        know some indoor events have a limited head count for the buildings.
        This
        would also make it ridiculously difficult to track someone's attendance
        if
        it were necessary, say that someone is accusing someone else of
        something,
        without a sign in sheet to prove or disprove their attendance it might
        be
        difficult.

        I hope I'm not opening a can of worms, and please also know
        that all of this is said with respect, an open mind, a smile on my face,
        and
        beer in my hand if off duty. J It's just that after having to deal with
        too
        many years of pleah and needing those sheets on several occasion my old
        constable senses kick on with this one.

        Good Journey

        Nichollas Keene

        Retired Senior Teaching Constable

        Captain of the Secret Police of the Summits (Sshhh)

        From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com> ]
        On Behalf Of Kenneth Flores
        Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:06 AM
        To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:wkconstabulary%40yahoogroups.com>

        Subject: [West Constables] FW: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and
        Sign In Waivers

        The announcement I made this morning on SCA West. If you have
        questions, we should discuss it here.

        From: sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
        Behalf Of Kenneth Flores
        Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:55 AM
        To: sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and Sign In Waivers

        Unto the populace of the West, your Kingdom Seneschal, Current Kingdom
        Exchequer, Incoming Kingdom Exchequer and Kingdom Constable send
        greetings.

        After a thoughtful deliberation process with the Society Seneschal and
        the Society Exchequer at the Board of Directors meeting we have
        drastically streamlined the sign-in process for Gate. Starting now the
        following process will be implemented as the sign-in procedure.

        Here is what you need to know:

        --If you are a member with a Blue Card:

        Simply show your Blue Card to the person running gate. They will check
        the expiration date, then take the event fee. That's it! No waiver
        because there is already one on file for you. The only exception for
        this are event specific waivers, such as events where an Equestrian
        waiver is required, then only that waiver is signed when you arrive.

        --If you are a Non-Member or a Member with a White Card:

        Show your White Card and pay the member fee, or Non-Members will pay the
        Non-Member fees (WKWC is still being done at all Kingdom events as far
        as I know). You then will sign the waiver we currently have and then you
        may enter the event as normal. Nothing here changes from the current
        policy for White Card holders and Non-members.

        --Minors with Blue Cards:

        Simply show the Blue card at gate, pay the fee if applicable, and enjoy
        the event.

        --Non-Member Minors or Minor Members with White Cards:

        Standard Minor waiver forms must be signed by the adult that is bringing
        them to the event.

        Clearly there will be situations which will end up being unique and
        bizarre. Please direct those questions to Constable@...
        <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org>
        <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org>
        <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org>
        <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org> who
        will get back to you as soon as possible with how the policy will be
        enforced. Please remember to bring your membership cards with you. Place
        them in your wallets, your purses, in your glove box next to your
        license and registration, or someplace you will not forget them. Your
        Page copy or your receipts printed from the website are still proof of
        membership. However, if this is the only form of identification that
        you can provide, you will still need to sign the waiver sheet as you
        enter the event.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Daniel Wagner
        In my experience, checking the sign-in for who is there is almost always a waste of time. Wulfy ________________________________ From: Nichollas
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 14, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          In my experience, checking the sign-in for who is there is almost always a waste
          of time.
          Wulfy



          ________________________________
          From: Nichollas <Nichollas@...>
          To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, July 14, 2011 9:51:24 AM
          Subject: RE: [West Constables] FW: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and
          Sign In Waivers


          Greetings,

          I have a few questions/concerns regarding this policy.
          Without a sign in sheet how would we check to see if certain individuals
          were in attendance, especially if those people were up for awards, or not
          supposed to be there. Also won't this wreak havoc with the exchequers
          trying to figure out the head count, or how many people were comped in. I
          know some indoor events have a limited head count for the buildings. This
          would also make it ridiculously difficult to track someone's attendance if
          it were necessary, say that someone is accusing someone else of something,
          without a sign in sheet to prove or disprove their attendance it might be
          difficult.

          I hope I'm not opening a can of worms, and please also know
          that all of this is said with respect, an open mind, a smile on my face, and
          beer in my hand if off duty. J It's just that after having to deal with too
          many years of pleah and needing those sheets on several occasion my old
          constable senses kick on with this one.

          Good Journey

          Nichollas Keene

          Retired Senior Teaching Constable

          Captain of the Secret Police of the Summits (Sshhh)

          From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of Kenneth Flores
          Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:06 AM
          To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [West Constables] FW: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and
          Sign In Waivers

          The announcement I made this morning on SCA West. If you have
          questions, we should discuss it here.

          From: sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
          Behalf Of Kenneth Flores
          Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:55 AM
          To: sca-west@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sca-west%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and Sign In Waivers

          Unto the populace of the West, your Kingdom Seneschal, Current Kingdom
          Exchequer, Incoming Kingdom Exchequer and Kingdom Constable send
          greetings.

          After a thoughtful deliberation process with the Society Seneschal and
          the Society Exchequer at the Board of Directors meeting we have
          drastically streamlined the sign-in process for Gate. Starting now the
          following process will be implemented as the sign-in procedure.

          Here is what you need to know:

          --If you are a member with a Blue Card:

          Simply show your Blue Card to the person running gate. They will check
          the expiration date, then take the event fee. That's it! No waiver
          because there is already one on file for you. The only exception for
          this are event specific waivers, such as events where an Equestrian
          waiver is required, then only that waiver is signed when you arrive.

          --If you are a Non-Member or a Member with a White Card:

          Show your White Card and pay the member fee, or Non-Members will pay the
          Non-Member fees (WKWC is still being done at all Kingdom events as far
          as I know). You then will sign the waiver we currently have and then you
          may enter the event as normal. Nothing here changes from the current
          policy for White Card holders and Non-members.

          --Minors with Blue Cards:

          Simply show the Blue card at gate, pay the fee if applicable, and enjoy
          the event.

          --Non-Member Minors or Minor Members with White Cards:

          Standard Minor waiver forms must be signed by the adult that is bringing
          them to the event.

          Clearly there will be situations which will end up being unique and
          bizarre. Please direct those questions to Constable@...
          <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org>
          <mailto:Constable%40westkingdom.org> who
          will get back to you as soon as possible with how the policy will be
          enforced. Please remember to bring your membership cards with you. Place
          them in your wallets, your purses, in your glove box next to your
          license and registration, or someplace you will not forget them. Your
          Page copy or your receipts printed from the website are still proof of
          membership. However, if this is the only form of identification that
          you can provide, you will still need to sign the waiver sheet as you
          enter the event.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • christophedavignon
          Holy crap! Drastically streamlined indeed!! (And NO! That is by no means a complaint!) Sounds awesome! Christophe
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 15, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Holy crap! "Drastically streamlined" indeed!! (And NO! That is by no means a complaint!) Sounds awesome!

            Christophe

            --- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Flores" <kflores@...> wrote:
            >
            > The announcement I made this morning on SCA West. If you have
            > questions, we should discuss it here.
            >
            >
            >
            > From: sca-west@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-west@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Kenneth Flores
            > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:55 AM
            > To: sca-west@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [sca-west] An Announcement about gate and Sign In Waivers
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Unto the populace of the West, your Kingdom Seneschal, Current Kingdom
            > Exchequer, Incoming Kingdom Exchequer and Kingdom Constable send
            > greetings.
            >
            > After a thoughtful deliberation process with the Society Seneschal and
            > the Society Exchequer at the Board of Directors meeting we have
            > drastically streamlined the sign-in process for Gate. Starting now the
            > following process will be implemented as the sign-in
          • Robin Of Silverwood
            Hello, Just a question to clarify my understanding. In general, I have not seen sign in sheets & waivers at Demos. Last year when Southern Shores combined
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 3, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello,

              Just a question to clarify my understanding. In general, I have not seen sign in sheets & waivers at Demos. Last year when Southern Shores combined Warlords (SCA Event) with the Santa Clara County Fair Demo, I presented a "mobile gate" bringing my clipboard around to the SCA attendees for sign-in (there was no gate fee). Sheets for Fair attendees coming by our section was limited to those wanting to be on a list to get more information about the SCA and the Province of Southern Shores.

              This year, Warlords is not combined with the Demo. It is Demo / Fighter-Practice-as-Demo only (again, no site fee). I am assuming I'll do something like I did last year (although I can only be present for Saturday as I have to work during the Sunday "Fighter-Practice-as-Demo" portion).

              Given the new show card & tally section.... and given that this is a demo where fair goers may wish to participate in a bout of foam weapons combat but otherwise just be observers:
              1. Should I be collecting sign-ins / tally as present all SCA participants to submit to the Kingdom?
              2. What about waivers for foam-weapons participants (if non-SCA members)?
              3. Given the "Fighter-Practice-as-Demo" part for Sunday, is it necessary for a Constable to be present at a "demo"?

              YIS,
              Robin of Silverwood
              Constable, Province of Southern Shores

              Cc: Cynthia de Mithamroad, Santa Clara County Fair Demonstration Autocrat
            • Kenneth Flores
              Good question Robin, As I have never run a demo at a county fair before, I am not entirely sure of what the policies of the event require. But what I would
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 5, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Good question Robin,



                As I have never run a demo at a county fair before, I am not entirely
                sure of what the policies of the event require. But what I would like
                to see is a tally of members attending the event as well as a waiver
                signed by any non-members participating in an activity that they could
                be injured.



                I can't ask you to make everyone who walks past the booth sign the form,
                but people who do hang around and are interested and want to participate
                should sign the waiver.



                Francisco



                p.s. sorry for getting back to you so late, I was sick for the past few
                days.



                From: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robin Of Silverwood
                Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:34 PM
                To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
                Cc: Cindy Stormo
                Subject: [West Constables] Question about Gate Sign In at a Demo





                Hello,

                Just a question to clarify my understanding. In general, I have not seen
                sign in sheets & waivers at Demos. Last year when Southern Shores
                combined Warlords (SCA Event) with the Santa Clara County Fair Demo, I
                presented a "mobile gate" bringing my clipboard around to the SCA
                attendees for sign-in (there was no gate fee). Sheets for Fair attendees
                coming by our section was limited to those wanting to be on a list to
                get more information about the SCA and the Province of Southern Shores.

                This year, Warlords is not combined with the Demo. It is Demo /
                Fighter-Practice-as-Demo only (again, no site fee). I am assuming I'll
                do something like I did last year (although I can only be present for
                Saturday as I have to work during the Sunday "Fighter-Practice-as-Demo"
                portion).

                Given the new show card & tally section.... and given that this is a
                demo where fair goers may wish to participate in a bout of foam weapons
                combat but otherwise just be observers:
                1. Should I be collecting sign-ins / tally as present all SCA
                participants to submit to the Kingdom?
                2. What about waivers for foam-weapons participants (if non-SCA
                members)?
                3. Given the "Fighter-Practice-as-Demo" part for Sunday, is it necessary
                for a Constable to be present at a "demo"?

                YIS,
                Robin of Silverwood
                Constable, Province of Southern Shores

                Cc: Cynthia de Mithamroad, Santa Clara County Fair Demonstration
                Autocrat





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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