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Re: [wisconsinpaganprisonministries] From the Inside

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  • Tonya O
    Or at least some hope for me! Tonya O No Good Deed Goes Unpunished, No Act of Charity Goes Unresented From the Broadway play, Wicked ... From: mike marcusen
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 1, 2008
      Or at least some hope for me!


      Tonya O

      "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished,

      No Act of Charity Goes Unresented"

      From the Broadway play, Wicked


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: mike marcusen <mmarcusen005@...>
      To: wisconsinpaganprisonministries@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:20:38 PM
      Subject: Re: [wisconsinpaganprisonministries] From the Inside

      WOW!!! Tonya, there might be some hope for this group yet.

      I didn't believe you'd be ready to deal with the bad tones,

      and lack of diplomacy of inmates, but I'm happy to be

      wrong about you. Now, If your ready to help, you can reply to my regular E-mail,

      or wait for the rest of this group to sort out a course of action over another

      3 months. Some of us, are gonna get some progress going here.

      Any of the group with pagan contacts inside the prisons, If support for them is what

      you want, let them be known to all, including postal contact info.

      Then I can have a garage sale, and send pagan books to every joint in the state,

      or bake sales, or craft sales, or whatever you witches do, pick your own pen pals,

      If every body on this group sends a book, The DOC needs more library space, so lets Just get it done, and sort out the details later.

      Blessed be. mike

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Tonya O <tigsgal1@yahoo. com>
      To: wisconsinpaganpriso nministries@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:11:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [wisconsinpaganpris onministries] From the Inside

      I liked what you had to say, it was real and without the diplomacy that some of us have to use.
      I know lots of men, who aren't "nice" men, but I get along with them just fine.  They like the
      ability to "shed" the political correctness crap and just have a "real" conversation with someone.
      I'm like that, usually up front about things and to the point.
      I appreciate your understanding of my concerns about some of the people who are in prisons.
      And the many others who are not, but need to be.
      I don't like the idea of dealing with offenders who would hurt women or children, and that's just how
      I am.  I would probably not be the nicest to them, at all.  LoL
      I want to help, to be part of the process, but not at the expense of myself.
      I don't care about "getting my hands dirty" and as a matter of fact, I kinda like the dirt. LoL
      What books are available to inmates? What are the criteria where you are for religious materials?
      How much time do you have left on the inside? 
      I think your perspective on things is a valuable one! 

      Tonya O

      "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished,

      No Act of Charity Goes Unresented"

      From the Broadway play, Wicked


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: outsoon2008 <angrytommy13@ yahoo.com>
      To: wisconsinpaganpriso nministries@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:09:32 PM
      Subject: [wisconsinpaganpris onministries] From the Inside

      Once again, I feel like I'm in one of the prison Pagan Groups! The
      part that pisses me off about that is that I have not gone to one of
      them in years! The simple reason for that is that they all turned
      into what this site has turned into - a "go nowhere, do nothing, let's
      all see if we can make ourselves feel better through this fake show of
      support!" group. As with those groups inside, the politics took over
      and they were doomed! I see the same thing here. The correlation
      between the groups in here and your site are truly depressing! :(

      Yes! You all read that correctly - IN HERE! Not only am I still in
      the joint, but I have been here for 18 years. So, I think a little
      background is i order, since some of you have worries about those of
      us in here. (Oh - and I'll be the first one to tell you that you damn
      well SHOULD!)

      Now, I am in for a violent crime. I shot and tried to kill a guy in a
      bar fight. It was a case of me or him, and I wasn't looking to be the
      one to get shot! I was a stupid 24-year old that had a death wish. I
      had no clue that's what I had then - it takes years of
      self-examination to work things like that out. Hell, I'm still
      working it out. I don't get things right half the time - but it
      doesn't mean that I'll give up. I have had a great deal of help from
      Lady Marie in this and many other areas of my life, and I am so
      thankful for all that she has done for me! Without her help, I
      wouldn't be the man I am today!

      Before I came to prison, I was a practicing Heathen - an Asatruar. I
      still am, and will be 'til the day I die. Also, when I came into
      prison there were NO Pagan groups! We fought long and hard to bring
      them to life! We got them started with a few other guys that wanted
      the groups for their own path and we worked well together, at first.
      You see, with my belief system (The Nine Noble Virtues of Truth,
      Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Courage, Perseverance, Self-Reliance,
      Industriousness, and Hospitality) I do not - and will not ever - abide
      those that hurt children or women. In my dealings with the Pagan
      Groups, there seems to be a great many of that persuasion and they
      came out of the woodwork once we got the groups formed and going. I
      stuck with it for years and tried to weed out the group, but all that
      did was get me tossed into the segregation unit time and again.

      Our situation wasn't helped any from those one the outside. Circle,
      when asked by the DOC about us (of the Asatru Path), did more harm
      than good. Then, years later, when some from Circle came to the
      prisons, our cause was harmed even more - and we were told buy J.W.
      that we didn't need books or things like that - and that since it was
      the "Wiccan-Pagan" group, the only path that would be allowed to be
      taught and talked about was that of the WICCAN faith. Once again,
      some of us went to the Segregation Unit because, as we saw things, we
      started the group and there was no way we'd be forced to follow a
      pagan path that wasn't ours.

      So ... with all of these issues, I felt that it was safer for my
      well-being and future freedom to stay away from the Pagan prison
      groups. I now do my own study and I get together with my Brothers
      when I can. It has been one of the smartest things I've done in many

      With all of that said, it is now time that I unload some of the
      thoughts that I have about this list.

      Tonya (and others), I totally understand your feelings on the guys at
      Sandridge. Being from New Lisbon, that is literally my backyard - and
      I would like nothing more than to blow it off of the map! I'm told
      that I can't do things like that, so now all I can do is wish it will
      happen some other way. The area is known for it's "twisters"! :)
      Now, my issue with things that you have said is that you are placing
      rapists and pedophiles with other violent convicts. There are a few
      guys on this list that have been in the joint, and they can tell you
      that, just like in society, there are different classes here in the
      joint. At the very bottom are those that hurt children and then those
      that hurt women. At one point in time, they were beaten and sometimes
      killed. In other states, they are made to do things that are better
      left unsaid and once they are used up, they are killed. In Wisconsin,
      this is a soft system - don't believe the hype that the media and
      politicos tell you to rake in more tax money for their own use. The
      fat cats are getting fatter off the type of statements that say how
      dangerous the prison system is. It's bunk! The prison guards protect
      the child molesters and rapists (although if you look at just how many
      of the DOC people have been nailed for rape and child molesting, then
      it makes sense - they know they could one day end up in here, so they
      want it to be safe).

      You see, Tonya, I may be a violent convict, but one doesn't equate
      with the other! I would never hurt a woman or a child, and that goes
      for so many others. You can tell what a person is in the joint for
      and you can also tell those that have "turned" (meaning they would do
      something to a woman or a child). There are no hard and fast rules to
      guys that have been locked down. I am called "Angry Tommy", yet I
      would be the first one to stop and help you if I saw you broke down on
      the side of the road. I would be the guy to put myself between you
      and some guy that was hitting you - and this is all whether I know you
      or not. I was raised to protect women and children and I will
      endanger my life to protect others. Does that mean I am a nice guy?
      HELL NO! I'll be the first one to tell you that I have no problem
      killing a guy for those types of transgressions. Thankfully, I have a
      good woman in my life and she will stop me from going too far and
      ending back up in here - but without her, I would be in trouble.

      I hope that you won't hold the betrayal done to you against those guys
      getting out. There is a very handy tool that you can use - CCAP (I
      guess it is a website on the computer where you can look and see what
      a guy is in for and it will give you the criminal history. You can
      also check the Sex Offender Registry or other background check sites
      on line. Use them if you have worries! Protect yourself by all means!

      But let's get back to the heart of the matter. Most of these guys
      will never contact any of you. They will get out of the joint and
      forget all about the path they say they follow. If there are some
      that do come calling, you can at least hold out some hope that they
      are on the Path, if only for the help they think they can get, and
      maybe they will turn around a new life for themselves. Most won't!
      Life out there is hard. In here, the cops control their life and they
      don't have to think or do for themselves. Out in the free world, they
      will have to do that for themselves - and that will take its toll on
      them. The ones that are Tru to their Path will show that they can be
      trusted and they won't step over what they see to be a short wall.
      They will only cross over to get close if you ask them. Sort of like
      the vampires they are - they will only come if they are invited! I
      know that most of you run in totally different circles than I will and
      our paths will most likely never cross. So be it. But I will still
      give you some ideas to focus on and give the help that you all say you
      want to give.

      First, books in here are cool, but with the way that the DOC is, the
      books need to go to the joints that don't have any volunteers coming
      in to help them. I think it was a very self-promoting thing, and
      selfish, for the first donated books to go to a place or a few places
      that have someone coming in. Share the wealth!

      Second, the things these guys will need for help on the streets is
      someone that can give them an outlet for their fears and a place to
      get advice. A lot of guys, even doing short terms, get lost. By
      that, I mean they become institutionalized. If they aren't of a
      strong will and mind, they break. That isn't a good thing. They are
      the ones that will do things they wouldn't have before they got locked
      up. Like Steven Avery. He had a ruff time in here - I was part of
      that - and he didn't do the crime he was accused of. It could be that
      all the crap he took from guys like me turned him, broke him, or he
      may have had that mentality the entire time but didn't get the chance
      to act on it before he got set up for the first crime. Who knows? I
      just know that I feel bad for my part of his torment! Anyway, I was
      saying that if these guys just had someone to talk to, it could make a
      world of difference. If you are freaked out about them coming to your
      home, then take a friend and have them sit close in some open, public
      area, where help can be seated close at hand. You need to be smart
      about your safety. The main thing, is to give the people coming out
      of the joint that little support that will make them believe that they
      are wanted out there. If you make them feel unwanted, it may come
      back to bite you in your collective asses!

      Now, stop getting sidetracked by all of this other stuff. It is time
      to really talk up some ideas and work out a plan to make them happen.
      This has not one thing to do with personal glory - it is about giving
      aid to those that are in need. Safe aid, YES!, but it is a good
      cause, and just the involvement of being part of it should give you
      all a sense of well-being and that happy tingle inside that we all
      want to feel.

      I have ideas of my own to help guys that are getting out of the joint
      and they go far beyond book drives. We started the Pagan Groups on
      our own and you get to feeling that the free-worlders don't care - so
      you don't look to them for help, you just help yourself. I still feel
      that way in many regards. I have far too many Brothers that are doing
      hard time, and I can't and won't forget them. That means it will be
      one Con helping another, as it almost always has been. I just don't
      have the high ideals that you do. I will only help those that I know
      haven't hurt women or children. Those types, according to my way of
      thinking, can rot - and if they come to bother my family I'll end up
      back on the inside! But if you really want some ideas and are Tru to
      your word of wanting to help the sincere guys, then get a plan
      together and help those that you want to.

      - A.T.

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