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MIT New Work

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  • vardan1899
    Hi, There was a major announcement from MIT today about wireless energy... WiTricity... http://www.google.com/search?q=witricity The news accounts were not
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 8, 2007
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      Hi,

      There was a "major announcement" from MIT today about wireless energy...

      WiTricity...

      http://www.google.com/search?q=witricity

      The news accounts were not very clear on "technical details"... :p

      The MIT group appears to have a new paper on this but "I" can't get
      it... Maybe someone can "sneak" it to me if they have tech paper
      access :o))

      It seems to be AFU on first read from the press stories... Mostly
      "hype" with perhaps "twisted" facts...

      Hard to say, but their test set up is super trivial... "too trivial"...

      Hmmmm...

      I uploaded some pictures in the files section...

      Need fully independent verification on this one... Cause I think it
      is "hosed"...

      Terry
    • Mike
      Terry, Lmao...you just don t wanna fork over that $100 to a bunch of MIT nerds. Just Kidding, of course....that $100 is mine if I ever get time off enough
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 8, 2007
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        Terry,
           Lmao...you just don't wanna fork over that $100 to a bunch of MIT nerds.     Just Kidding, of course....that $100 is mine if I ever get time off enough from this new job.    Actually Terrry,   I'd love ya to email me at megavolts61@...     Just wanna read whatcha been up to lately.   You just kind of dissappeared from the Tesla list, so I figure you must be up to something cool...Like taking over the world.
        Mike
         


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      • vardan1899
        You had better hurry!! I have been running simulations on the MIT system all day, and they seem to have the goal easily in their grasp!! They just need to
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 11, 2007
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          You had better hurry!! I have been running simulations on the MIT
          system all day, and they seem to have the goal easily in their grasp!!

          They just need to pull their coils 10 feet apart (3 feet further than
          their seven feet now at 15%!) and show just 1%. It is trivial for
          them to do!!

          It is only waiting on the "demonstration" per the "challenges
          rules"... But it appears that for all practical purposes, that they
          have won!!

          Unless some giant "gotcha" in there system shows up, they win! They
          even did it like Tesla said it should be done, it a nicely twisted
          way. ;-) It cannot be taken to the giant levels Tesla dreamed of
          though... But simulations suggest it works better they they think at
          greater distances ;-)) But at least they broke a lot of the old rules
          ;-))

          Their "key" was using higher frequencies where the sizes go down but
          the displacement currents go way up... They over came stray losses
          very well in trying to make a low loss "sort of closed system" where
          the power has only the load to go to.

          I am not sure their system is at all "practical" in every day use
          since if you touch the transmitter you might be toasted and the MV/m
          is way over any of the limits... But they seemed to have greatly
          extended the art even if they really did not, and maybe still don't,
          know really what they are doing :o)) The Tx and RX sides are not
          "practical" as I can see compared to a "wire"... But hey do seemed to
          have met this small challenge!!

          Wee!!!

          Today is a good day!! I congratulate the MIT team for apparently
          beating me and my challenge!!

          So much for the week's beer budget :p

          Cheers,

          Terry




          > Terry,
          > Lmao...you just don't wanna fork over that $100 to a bunch of
          MIT nerds. Just Kidding, of course....that $100 is mine if I ever
          get time off enough from this new job.
        • Ed Phillips
          You had better hurry!! I have been running simulations on the MIT system all day, and they seem to have the goal easily in their grasp!! Not as I understood
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 11, 2007
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            You had better hurry!! I have been running simulations on the MIT
            system all day, and they seem to have the goal easily in their grasp!!"

            Not as I understood the rules. How about repeating the challenge
            rules? Lost the link.

            Ed
          • vardan1899
            Hi, http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IP5tRhDs7vU1DCHdg-6bisawVzg0ZIylvH9q1z7J7iSquGjX9Dy6sK6XDGOC3rHLC5IvFpX89GZs2XTA-Hco7g/TeslaPrize.pdf If the goofy yahoo link
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 11, 2007
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              Hi,

              http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IP5tRhDs7vU1DCHdg-6bisawVzg0ZIylvH9q1z7J7iSquGjX9Dy6sK6XDGOC3rHLC5IvFpX89GZs2XTA-Hco7g/TeslaPrize.pdf

              If the "goofy yahoo link fails"... It is just the first file posted in
              the files section here... (Nov 18, 2006)...

              My response paper is going slow. I realize it might get a lot of
              "press". So I am trying to to have it not be all F***** up :o))

              Cheers,

              Terry


              --- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, Ed Phillips
              <evp2@...> wrote:
              >
              > You had better hurry!! I have been running simulations on the MIT
              > system all day, and they seem to have the goal easily in their grasp!!"
              >
              > Not as I understood the rules. How about repeating the challenge
              > rules? Lost the link.
              >
              > Ed
              >
            • Gavin Dingley
              Hi Terry, all, I got 100% efficiency over 1.3m using a 400kHz TC system (no connection between Rx-Tx at all, not even a common ground connection, achieved May
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 12, 2007
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                Hi Terry, all,
                 
                I got 100% efficiency over 1.3m using a 400kHz TC system (no connection between Rx-Tx at all, not even a common ground connection, achieved May 2006), but unlike MIT my time/budget ran out - I think others can make similar claims. Magnetic induction is not the way to go, field strength attenuates by the cube of distance. Still I can't see people tolerating a TC poking out of their laptops ;-)
                 
                Gavin

                vardan1899 <vardan1899@...> wrote:
                You had better hurry!! I have been running simulations on the MIT
                system all day, and they seem to have the goal easily in their grasp!!

                They just need to pull their coils 10 feet apart (3 feet further than
                their seven feet now at 15%!) and show just 1%. It is trivial for
                them to do!!

                It is only waiting on the "demonstration" per the "challenges
                rules"... But it appears that for all practical purposes, that they
                have won!!

                Unless some giant "gotcha" in there system shows up, they win! They
                even did it like Tesla said it should be done, it a nicely twisted
                way. ;-) It cannot be taken to the giant levels Tesla dreamed of
                though... But simulations suggest it works better they they think at
                greater distances ;-)) But at least they broke a lot of the old rules
                ;-))

                Their "key" was using higher frequencies where the sizes go down but
                the displacement currents go way up... They over came stray losses
                very well in trying to make a low loss "sort of closed system" where
                the power has only the load to go to.

                I am not sure their system is at all "practical" in every day use
                since if you touch the transmitter you might be toasted and the MV/m
                is way over any of the limits... But they seemed to have greatly
                extended the art even if they really did not, and maybe still don't,
                know really what they are doing :o)) The Tx and RX sides are not
                "practical" as I can see compared to a "wire"... But hey do seemed to
                have met this small challenge!!

                Wee!!!

                Today is a good day!! I congratulate the MIT team for apparently
                beating me and my challenge!!

                So much for the week's beer budget :p

                Cheers,

                Terry

                > Terry,
                > Lmao...you just don't wanna fork over that $100 to a bunch of
                MIT nerds. Just Kidding, of course....that $100 is mine if I ever
                get time off enough from this new job.



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              • Ed Phillips
                Hi Terry, all, I got 100% efficiency over 1.3m using a 400kHz TC system (no connection between Rx-Tx at all, not even a common ground connection, achieved May
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 12, 2007
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                  Hi Terry, all,

                  I got 100% efficiency over 1.3m using a 400kHz TC system (no connection
                  between Rx-Tx at all, not even a common ground connection, achieved May
                  2006), but unlike MIT my time/budget ran out - I think others can make
                  similar claims. Magnetic induction is not the way to go, field strength
                  attenuates by the cube of distance. Still I can't see people tolerating
                  a TC poking out of their laptops ;-)

                  Gavin"

                  Details when you have the time? How did you measure efficiency -
                  that's not easy to do.

                  Ed
                • Ed Phillips
                  Hi, http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IP5tRhDs7vU1DCHdg-6bisawVzg0ZIylvH9q1z7J7iSquGjX9Dy6sK6XDGOC3rHLC5IvFpX89GZs2XTA-Hco7g/TeslaPrize.pdf If the goofy yahoo link
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 12, 2007
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                    Hi,

                    http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IP5tRhDs7vU1DCHdg-6bisawVzg0ZIylvH9q1z7J7iSquGjX9Dy6sK6XDGOC3rHLC5IvFpX89GZs2XTA-Hco7g/TeslaPrize.pdf

                    If the "goofy yahoo link fails"... It is just the first file posted in
                    the files section here... (Nov 18, 2006)...

                    My response paper is going slow. I realize it might get a lot of
                    "press". So I am trying to to have it not be all F***** up :o))

                    Cheers,

                    Terry"

                    Got it eventually and now remember I thought at the time it was too easy! Here's a snip from a note I just sent to the Pupman list about the published article - expect you'll see it there too.

                    " They had a bunch of references including a Tesla patent which
                    doesn't really apply, but a single reference to any issue of The
                    Radiotron Designer's Handbook would have sufficed. If they had read it
                    and understood it they wouldn't have published [maybe - they're on an
                    ego trip so who knows?]. Their equation for coil resistance is too
                    complicated for me to bother to understand but their value of 950 for Q
                    is very close to what I get using formulae in the third edition which I
                    used in college back in 1944 although I ignored coil capacitance in the
                    calculation. Just for kicks I went through a calculation similar for
                    the case of 24" diameter coils consisting of 20 turns of #10 wire in a
                    total length of 4 inches. k (the conventional one without their
                    superfluous omega in it) works out to abe 0.00757 for 120 inches center
                    to center spacing and to 0.00441 for the 144" spacing Terry's "10 R"
                    challenge would use. Pretty high coupling when you think about it.
                    Here are some Excel calculations I made using a simplified coil
                    analysis program based on the RDH formula and ignored self capacitance
                    or self resonance to make the job simpler.



                    f(MHz) Q kQ 120"spacing kQ 144"spacing

                    0.1 362 2.74034 1.59642

                    0.3 647 4.89779 2.85327

                    1 1204 9.11428 5.30964

                    3 2106 15.94242 9.28746

                    10 3780 28.6146 16.6698



                    Even assuming my Q calculations are off by a factor of more than
                    two any frequency of 1 MHz or above should provide enough power
                    transfer to win Terry's prize - I thought he made it too easy but never
                    bothered to run these calculations!"

                    I liked the challenge where the power had to be transferred 10 wavelengths a lot better!

                    Ed
                  • vardan1899
                    Hi, I wrote up my notes on WiTricity in the files section here:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 12, 2007
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                      Hi,

                      I wrote up my notes on WiTricity in the files section here:

                      http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wGtvRlmRnuod9cJx6ur7mdBmu3QXyBiPCuMmibG4RHmNjwNLr_zdxhbp3Si79reYGduveP2a18VvTMjDH5qxUQ/WiTricity.pdf

                      For their system at a distance of 7r, I get a theoretical efficiency
                      of 25.3%!!

                      Ed Wrote:
                      .......
                      >
                      > Even assuming my Q calculations are off by a factor of more than
                      > two any frequency of 1 MHz or above should provide enough power
                      > transfer to win Terry's prize - I thought he made it too easy but never
                      > bothered to run these calculations!"
                      >
                      > I liked the challenge where the power had to be transferred 10
                      wavelengths a lot better!
                      >
                      > Ed
                      >

                      It seems so easy "now" :o))

                      Terry
                    • Mike
                      I hate to say it Terry, but it was easy for me over ten years ago. Just wish I had time to mess with it since you made the challenge. When I moved away
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 12, 2007
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                        I hate to say it Terry,  but it was easy for me over ten years ago.   Just wish I had time to mess with it since you made the challenge.   When I moved away from Denver five or six years ago...I had achieved wireless power transfer that would have come very close to meeting your rules.  
                        Cheers,
                        Mike
                         


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                      • vardan1899
                        Hi Ed, I updated the paper in the files section with WiTricity-1.pdf. I just added the last page is all. I resolved that the problem where their capacitance
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jun 13, 2007
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                          Hi Ed,

                          I updated the paper in the files section with WiTricity-1.pdf.

                          I just added the last page is all. I resolved that the problem where
                          their capacitance seemed so low was do to their lack of a ground plane
                          (there system is floating in free air) so the parallel capacitance to
                          the coils is about 1/2 what Medhurst would predict.

                          The power supply source impedance and load impedance are coupled to
                          their respective coils at about k=0.4. That drastically reduces the
                          "Q" to about 15 to 20! Having a "Q" of 1000 on the bare coil does not
                          matter... This very low Q gives them a bumpy 2.5 MHz bandwidth as
                          shown in the last figure in the paper I wrote. I bet that "dual hump"
                          thing really confuses them at MIT if they haven't figure that out yet
                          :oD If not, there might still be time to try and convince them that
                          the finicky efficiency is due to "effervescent ethereal turbulence" or
                          some other hilarious cause >:O)

                          I have been working to make a much more modest ~4MHz WiTricity system
                          simply run from a common 50 ohm signal generator input and a 50 ohm
                          resistor at the far end. Waiting for the glue to dry and I hope I can
                          slide the coils off the form... ;-) It should run LEDs and be super
                          easy for anyone to reproduce without the need for 5 Ph.d's to help out
                          %:o)

                          Cheers,

                          Terry
                        • Gary Peterson
                          Terry, Mustafa is planning to work the 7.0 -7.3 MHz Ham band so it looks like this this one belongs to you. Are spark gap transmitters allowed when competing
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 20, 2008
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                            Terry,

                            Mustafa is planning to work the 7.0 -7.3 MHz Ham band so it looks like this this one belongs to you.

                            Are spark gap transmitters allowed when competing for the $100 Tesla Prize?

                            Regards,
                            Gary Peterson

                            --- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "jcktrevor" <jcktrevor@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear List Members ,
                            >
                            > I am an beginner to cw radio communication and I will get my
                            > certificate two months later , when the goverment exams begin.
                            > I am an archaeologist and I am interested in interesting forgotton ,
                            > forbidden technologies like Tiffany Glazes , Faberge Enamels , Auto
                            > Union Engines etc etc.
                            > I read that at the beginning days of radio communication , there were
                            > spark gap transmitters.
                            > I learned that they were tesla coils.
                            > Can you please tell me how can I build a spark gap transmitter which
                            > will operate same as 5 watts CW , 40 Meters transmitter ?
                            > I dont want to spend a fortune and big electric bills. Health is very
                            > important , I dont want to be cancer because of xrays etc.
                            > If everything comply , I want to build one.
                            >
                            > Best regards ,
                            > Mustafa Umut Sarac
                            > Istanbul
                            >
                            > Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:56 pm 

                            --- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "vardan1899" <vardan1899@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Ed,
                            >
                            > I updated the paper in the files section with http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wireless_energy_transmission/files/7%29%20MIT%20Wireless%20%28WiTricity%29/WiTricity-1.pdf .
                            >
                            > I just added the last page is all. I resolved that the problem where
                            > their capacitance seemed so low was do to their lack of a ground plane
                            > (there system is floating in free air) so the parallel capacitance to
                            > the coils is about 1/2 what Medhurst would predict.
                            >
                            > The power supply source impedance and load impedance are coupled to
                            > their respective coils at about k=0.4. That drastically reduces the
                            > "Q" to about 15 to 20! Having a "Q" of 1000 on the bare coil does not
                            > matter... This very low Q gives them a bumpy 2.5 MHz bandwidth as
                            > shown in the last figure in the paper I wrote. I bet that "dual hump"
                            > thing really confuses them at MIT if they haven't figure that out yet
                            > :oD If not, there might still be time to try and convince them that
                            > the finicky efficiency is due to "effervescent ethereal turbulence" or
                            > some other hilarious cause >:O)
                            >
                            > I have been working to make a much more modest ~4MHz WiTricity system
                            > simply run from a common 50 ohm signal generator input and a 50 ohm
                            > resistor at the far end. Waiting for the glue to dry and I hope I can
                            > slide the coils off the form... ;-) It should run LEDs and be super
                            > easy for anyone to reproduce without the need for 5 Ph.d's to help out
                            > %:o)
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            >
                            > Terry
                            >

                          • Gary Peterson
                            Wireless Energy Transmission Prize [ http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wireless_energy_transmission/files/$1 00_Tesla_Prize_Rules.txt
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 20, 2008
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                              Wireless Energy Transmission Prize

                              [ http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wireless_energy_transmission/files/$100_Tesla_Prize_Rules.txt ]

                              $100 to the first person to achieve 1% efficiency!

                              BACKGROUND:

                              Nikola Tesla was awarded a patent for his Apparatus for Transmitting Electrical Energy in 1914 as U.S. Patent # 1,119,732

                              http://hot-streamer.com/TeslaCoils/OtherPapers/TeslaPatents/us001119732.pdf

                              http://hot-streamer.com/TeslaCoils/OtherPapers/TeslaPatents/us000649621.pdf

                              More details of his work are available in many sources such as:

                              http://www.amazon.com/Nikola-Tesla-Colorado-Springs-1899-1900/dp/0913022268

                              http://hot-streamer.com/temp/0611063.pdf [broken link]

                              PURPOSE:

                              To demonstrate the efficiency of Tesla's system, a prize has been setup up of $100 to be given to the first person to demonstrate a 1% or greater efficiency in an actual modern working model of Tesla's Wireless Energy Transmission system.

                              RULES:

                              1. No cheating.

                              2. Both the transmitter and receiver shall have a size defined as being able to fit inside a spherical volume of radius r which is known and is limited to 0.1 < r < 2.0 meters.

                              3. The transmission distance between the surfaces of the spherical volumes of the transmitter and receiver must be at least 10 x r.

                              4. The minimum received power shall be at least 1 watt sustained for 60 seconds.

                              5. The operating frequency shall be between 1 Hz and 10MHz.

                              6. Ground wire between the transmitter and receiver is allowed but it must be center grounded to Earth and power ground. The transmitter and receiver must also be grounded to the Earth and power ground within the spherical volume.

                              7. The power of the transmitter will be measured with a suitable "real power" watt meter or equivalent measurement system. A typical example is:

                              http://www.google.com/search?q=kill-a-watt

                              8. The received power will be measured across a fixed resistance as a RMS voltage or current. Typically this would be done with an oscilloscope or other suitable equipment. The minimum received power shall be at least 1 watt.

                              9. "Non-active" equipment such as meters, lights, power supplies, fans, test equipment, etc. can be external to the spherical volumes.

                              10. The winner must disclose all details of the system for verification and to help further the art. This should include pictures, dimensions, voltages, equipment used, etc. Third party verification is highly encouraged!

                              11. Judges, committee members, prize financiers, etc. are not eligible.

                              V 1.01
                              Terry Fritz, Nov. 18, 2006


                              --- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "vardan1899" <vardan1899@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi,
                              >
                              > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IP5tRhDs7vU1DCHdg-6bisawVzg0ZIylvH9q1z7J7iSquGjX9Dy6sK6XDGOC3rHLC5IvFpX89GZs2XTA-Hco7g/TeslaPrize.pdf
                              >
                              > If the "goofy yahoo link fails"... It is just the first file posted in
                              > the files section here... (Nov 18, 2006)...
                              >
                              > My response paper is going slow. I realize it might get a lot of
                              > "press". So I am trying to to have it not be all F***** up :o))
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              >
                              > Terry
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, Ed Phillips
                              > evp2@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > > You had better hurry!! I have been running simulations on the MIT
                              > > system all day, and they seem to have the goal easily in their grasp!!"
                              > >
                              > > Not as I understood the rules. How about repeating the challenge
                              > > rules? Lost the link.
                              > >
                              > > Ed
                              > >
                              >

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