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  • David Stallard
    I m embarrassed to say that I m the creator and moderator of this list, but it s been months since Wildstorm has even registered in my brain. I was SO gung-ho
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 22, 2008
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      I'm embarrassed to say that I'm the creator and moderator of this list, but it's been months since Wildstorm has even registered in my brain.  I was SO gung-ho for the Wildstorm Universe for a few years after starting this list, but their newer books began to deviate more and more from what I'm interested in reading.
       
      I just scanned through the official forums to see what's going on, and it seems like the cycle is repeating itself...Wildstorm relaunched a bunch of books not too long ago, and now apparently some of them have already been cancelled and there's buzz that they will be relaunched yet again.  Relaunching seems to have become a bit of a joke at Wildstorm.
       
      I also saw that Grant Morrison has more-or-less abandoned a new Wildcats series after only one issue, as did Warren Ellis with whatever book he was writing (I think it was called Desolation Jones?).
       
      It seems like a sad state of affairs at Wildstorm...is it really that bad, or are there great things happening as well?
       
      Now that these characters are back in my head, I find myself wanting to bust out the back issues again.  I have fond memories of the large, tightly related universe that they used to have....
       
      David
    • Mathieu Doublet
      ... Well they tried to relaunch it with Worldstorm who should have been written by Morrison. He plotted one issue of Wildcats (vol.4) and two of Authority
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 22, 2008
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        Selon David Stallard <davidstallard@...>:

        > I just scanned through the official forums to see what's going on, and it
        > seems like the cycle is repeating itself...Wildstorm relaunched a bunch of
        > books not too long ago, and now apparently some of them have already been
        > cancelled and there's buzz that they will be relaunched yet again.
        > Relaunching seems to have become a bit of a joke at Wildstorm.

        Well they tried to relaunch it with Worldstorm who should have been written by
        Morrison. He plotted one issue of Wildcats (vol.4) and two of Authority (vol.2).

        Then there were: Wildstorm Armageddon, a bunch of one-shots with Void checking
        some heroes and telling them that they have to understand how the future will be
        messed up (being the Carrier litteraly crashing in London). Void was kept
        hostage by a mysterious character. Then there is currently a bi-weekly series:
        Revelations which stars Nemesis, the last character who has be contacted by
        Void. And there will be soon another mini-series Number of the beast who should
        at last put some order in WS.

        > I also saw that Grant Morrison has more-or-less abandoned a new Wildcats
        > series after only one issue, as did Warren Ellis with whatever book he was
        > writing (I think it was called Desolation Jones?).
        For Desolation Jones, it's kind of independant from the WS universe. I didn't
        know that it was a regular series. At least, there is a first TPB with a
        complete story which is really really good.

        > It seems like a sad state of affairs at Wildstorm...is it really that bad,
        > or are there great things happening as well?
        As you said, it really looks like a joke. I kept hanging on hope, wondering why
        I haven't been selling my collection of Wildstorm comics yet and stop completing
        such titles as Stormwatch for instance. The good thing is that Christos N. Gage
        took a lot of recent WS titles (and Armageddon by the way) and that he did a
        great job (even for WS old readers). I really would like WS to give every
        possibilities to Gage, he can do what Morrison was supposed to.

        > Now that these characters are back in my head, I find myself wanting to bust
        > out the back issues again. I have fond memories of the large, tightly
        > related universe that they used to have....
        Well, is it useful ? WS is following the path of DC: a lot of stories who are
        interesting enough to be bought and who can be summarized in a few lines. I
        think that, as WS is now officialy a parallel Earth in DC universe that maybe
        such things as Final Crisis may have some effect on WS universe. Well, we'll
        see.

        Ah, there is Number of the beast for "crossover that will change the WS universe
        forever" but at the same time, there's also a crossover between DC and WS where
        heroes will fight old-school. It's written by Keith Giffen so, at least, it
        won't be bad.

        Sgt Pepere, still a fan of WS but for how long ? (I did like Stormwatch PHD !)

        --
        Lycée Français de Moscou: http://www.lfm.ru
        Onirique Comics: http://onirique.free.fr
      • Ben Kalman
        ... I ve given up on WS. It s such a shoddy mess. I thought that bringing it into the DCU would help, but it hasn t. I no longer get ANY books in regular WS
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 23, 2008
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          >I'm embarrassed to say that I'm the creator and moderator of this list, but it's been >months since Wildstorm has even registered in my brain.  I was SO gung-ho for the >Wildstorm Universe for a few years after starting this list, but their newer books >began to deviate more and more from what I'm interested in reading.


          I've given up on WS. It's such a shoddy mess. I thought that bringing it into the DCU would help, but  it hasn't.

          I no longer get ANY books in regular WS continuity. The last books I got were Wetworks and Stormwatch PHD, both of which were pretty good, but the newer stuff is terrible.

          Half of the characters are gone, and those that are left bare little to no resemblance to their original selves.

          Travesty is the only word to describe it. It's no wonder Scott Dunbier fially had enough and left WS...


          > I also saw that Grant Morrison has more-or-less abandoned a new Wildcats series >after only one issue, as did Warren Ellis with whatever book he was writing (I think >it was called Desolation Jones?).
           

          Desolaton Jones has nothing to to with the WSU. It's a self-contained book, and is fantastic.

          It's on hiatus after the previous arc was completed, but is supposed to be returning this year.

          Warren Ellis stuff is tricky because he has an exclusive contract with Marvel, which allows him to do his indy stuff at Avatar and Image, but I'm not sure how it works with regard to the DC stuff...


          >It seems like a sad state of affairs at Wildstorm... is it really that bad, or are there >great things happening as well?
           
          For the WSU continuity stuff, it's all awful. It's like feeding oxygen to a vegetable - they're still alive for years on end but with no brain functions.

          -Ben =)
          __._,_._


        • Ben Kalman
          ... I ve given up on WS. It s such a shoddy mess. I thought that bringing it into the DCU would help, but it hasn t. I no longer get ANY books in regular WS
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 23, 2008
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            >I'm embarrassed to say that I'm the creator and moderator of this list, but it's been >months since Wildstorm has even registered in my brain.  I was SO gung-ho for the >Wildstorm Universe for a few years after starting this list, but their newer books >began to deviate more and more from what I'm interested in reading.


            I've given up on WS. It's such a shoddy mess. I thought that bringing it into the DCU would help, but  it hasn't.

            I no longer get ANY books in regular WS continuity. The last books I got were Wetworks and Stormwatch PHD, both of which were pretty good, but the newer stuff is terrible.

            Half of the characters are gone, and those that are left bare little to no resemblance to their original selves.

            Travesty is the only word to describe it. It's no wonder Scott Dunbier fially had enough and left WS...


            > I also saw that Grant Morrison has more-or-less abandoned a new Wildcats series >after only one issue, as did Warren Ellis with whatever book he was writing (I think >it was called Desolation Jones?).
             

            Desolaton Jones has nothing to to with the WSU. It's a self-contained book, and is fantastic.

            It's on hiatus after the previous arc was completed, but is supposed to be returning this year.

            Warren Ellis stuff is tricky because he has an exclusive contract with Marvel, which allows him to do his indy stuff at Avatar and Image, but I'm not sure how it works with regard to the DC stuff...


            >It seems like a sad state of affairs at Wildstorm... is it really that bad, or are there >great things happening as well?
             
            For the WSU continuity stuff, it's all awful. It's like feeding oxygen to a vegetable - they're still alive for years on end but with no brain functions.

            -Ben =)
            __._,_._


          • jnadiger
            Okay, first: Dunbier was fired, and I think that s a crucial difference than getting tired and leaving . I think, quality-wise, the WorldStorm titles were
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 23, 2008
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              Okay, first: Dunbier was fired, and I think that's a crucial difference than "getting tired and leaving".


              I think, quality-wise, the WorldStorm titles were pretty good. 

              • Wetworks was very much a direct continuation of a lot of themes and plot points from Volume 1, and the first nine issues, written by Mike Carey, were really good. 
              • Welcome to Tranquility was consistently good from start to finish.  And I know it's not the most intensely WildStorm-related book ever, but it was full of great characters and good stories, and it's easily the best thing Gail Simone has ever written, ever.
              • StormWatch PHD was pretty good but only while Mahnke was drawing it. 
              • Deathblow's a little weird, but I was digging it.  It felt very old-school WildStorm, with paranoid government conspiracies running around.
              • Midnighter started off a little shaky, while I liked Sprouse's art, I wasn't too keen on Garth Ennis's WWII story.  Since Giffen's picked up the writing, it's been pretty interesting to read, and they've been trying to give Midnighter a more three-dimensional personality.
              • I wasn't a fan of the first arc of Gail Simone's Gen 13, but the second arc was really strong.  This title is a bit more serious than the Adam Warren run, but it's been exploring some interesting things about youth culture, reality tv, and online video, etc, and it's not bad.  I'd still say that Gen 13 is the weakest of the relaunch titles, but it's still around, so it must be doing okay.
              • WildStorm Armageddon was a bit of a waste of time, although it had some FANTASTIC art.
              • WildStorm Revelations is pretty good, I think it's a nice treat for both old-school fans and new-school fans, as it's trying to be a bit of a bridge between the generations.  The old-school fans get a WildStorm Universe that is connected again, with some old relationships being revisited, like Marc Slayton and his daughter, and some new ones being revealed, like the fact that Majestic, The High, and Tranquility's Maximum Man used to fight crime together, and that there WAS in fact a Golden Age in WildStorm (new school idea) but that entire generation of superheroes were wiped out by a vast government conspiracy (good old WildStorm).

              I think the biggest problem, to be honest, is us as fans.  There's been so many incarnations of WildStorm and their titles that it's hard for some people to adapt or whatever.  Not that anyone should buy books that they don't enjoy, but the Brandon Choi WildC.A.T.s and Joe Casey Wildcats don't appeal to the same people, you know?  

              I thought the WorldStorm relaunch was a pretty fascinating experiment to try and combine the two, with Vertigo-ish writers who have kind of defined WildStorm since 1999 or so, with flashy, superhero-style artists who started WildStorm back in the Image days.  It looks like the experiment was a failure, though, for a variety of reasons. 

              I'm not convinced that having Grant Morrison's Wildcats or Authority around would've stopped Wetworks or StormWatch from being cancelled, to be honest.  I think there wasn't really a line-wide consensus of what WorldStorm was supposed to be.   As well, as Jim Lee mentioned in an interview or a panel last year, the gritty, cutting edge stories that used to set WildStorm apart are pretty mainstream now.  There's the Ultimate Universe and things like Identity Crisis, filled with paranoia and horrific violence. 

              So, now, I think we're working towards the next big manifesto, which seems to be a permanent blowing up of the WildStorm's world.  Will it be permanent?  Probably not, but it might be interesting, and at the very least, it might provide the universe with what it's been lacking for so long, a cohesive direction.

              While I seem to be in the minority, I've always enjoyed WildStorm for its versatility and its ability to radically change its status quo and its characters.  I like the idea of how fluid it is, and how the tone and styles change.  I think WildStorm have given a lot of talented creators the freedom to come up with some pretty wild ideas.  Do I miss the old-school spandex days?  Sometimes.  Do I miss the inter-continuity?  Sometimes.  But I feel that the quality is still there, and we're still being treated to some high-caliber storytelling from the likes of Christos Gage, Chris Sprouse, Keith Giffen, etc.
               
              If you're curious about current WildStorm, David, I'd suggest trying out the current trilogy of minis that are going to set up the new, post-apocalyptic status quo:
              • ARMAGEDDON: Where six WildStorm heroes are sent to the horrible future to try and prevent it.
              • REVELATIONS: Savant, Jodi Slayton (now calling herself Backlash), and Nemesis run around the WSU trying to find information to stop Armageddon.
              • NUMBER OF THE BEAST: This is where it all goes wrong apparently.  So far, the previews show The Paladins, who were the premiere WildStorm superheroes running around in the 1940s.  It's unclear at this point if the preview pages are flashback or take place in the present day, but it's drawn by Sprouse, who draws some pretty pictures.
              • and also THE NEW DYNAMIX, written by Allen Warner and illustrated by JJ Kirby, which revisits the old-school WS guys like Omni (now calling himself Black Halo) and Gramalkin and we find out what they've been doing since the rise of the "grittier" characters like the Authority.

              Also, (SHAMELESS PLUG), I've still got my WildStorm Resource Wiki going, and I'd appreciate it if anyone who wants to contribute helps me out with issues summaries, character bios, information on teams or aliens or whatever.  It's built by Wetpaint and it's pretty simple to use.

              The WildStorm Resource Wiki


            • Mathieu Doublet
              ... Don t agree on these ones. ... Except that it somehow leads, in a never-ending DC way, to the WS trilogy. ... I liked both of it. Because characters
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 24, 2008
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                Selon jnadiger <wildstormresource@...>:

                > I think, quality-wise, the WorldStorm titles were pretty good.
                > * StormWatch PHD was pretty good but only while Mahnke was drawing
                > it.

                Don't agree on these ones.

                > * WildStorm Armageddon was a bit of a waste of time, although it had
                > some FANTASTIC art.

                Except that it somehow leads, in a never-ending DC way, to the WS trilogy.

                > I think the biggest problem, to be honest, is us as fans. There's been
                > so many incarnations of WildStorm and their titles that it's hard for
                > some people to adapt or whatever. Not that anyone should buy books that
                > they don't enjoy, but the Brandon Choi WildC.A.T.s and Joe Casey
                > Wildcats don't appeal to the same people, you know?

                I liked both of it. Because characters changed or more accurately evolved. The
                best example being Maul and Voodoo.

                > Probably not, but it might be interesting, and at the very
                > least, it might provide the universe with what it's been lacking for so
                > long, a cohesive direction.

                I think that IT is the biggest problem. Fans will be fans, they will never be
                contended. But if a universe goes the same way during a certain time, it gives
                the opportunity for readers to actually care about characters. If we know that
                every now and then, the universe is going to be relaunched / rebooted / ..., how
                can we care for the characters ? As a matter of fact WS has been a mess since
                the Gen13 relaunch with Claremont & Garza (and the ultra good titles from
                palmiotti & Gray). I wish WS editors would at least put Herod somehow in the
                game, just in order to complete the stories. I know it's a "middle-school" (not
                old not new) demand but I would surely buy it and read it if it completed some
                of WS mysterious black holes of continuity.

                > I like the idea of how fluid it is, and how the tone
                > and styles change.
                Fluid but not chaotic.

                > I think WildStorm have given a lot of talented
                > creators the freedom to come up with some pretty wild ideas. Do I miss
                > the old-school spandex days? Sometimes. Do I miss the
                > inter-continuity? Sometimes. But I feel that the quality is still
                > there, and we're still being treated to some high-caliber storytelling
                > from the likes of Christos Gage, Chris Sprouse, Keith Giffen, etc.

                Problem is that all these ideas, as crazy as they are, are presented as a part
                of a whole. I mean, WS could do with all these creators and all these titles
                just like they did with Desolation Jones or Ex-Machina. Why stick to a universe
                no one seems to care about ? let's put all those creators with a new bunch of
                characters and go on with the liberty of creation and craziness. I would be okay
                with it.

                The only writer who has succeed in getting in to the universe, putting some new
                characters and plotting older ones in Christos N. Gage. Cheers to him !

                Mathieu

                --
                Lycée Français de Moscou: http://www.lfm.ru
                Onirique Comics: http://onirique.free.fr
              • Ben Kalman
                ... Might as well be, since he seemed to be fired due to burnout from arguing about maintaining some essence of quality and continuity in the comics;) ... Well
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 25, 2008
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                  >Okay, first: Dunbier was fired, and I think that's a crucial difference than "getting >tired and leaving".

                  Might as well be, since he seemed to be fired due to burnout from arguing about maintaining some essence of quality and continuity in the comics;)

                  >I think, quality-wise, the WorldStorm titles were pretty good. 

                  Well somebody, somewhere has to like them. Too bad the vast majority of the comic-reading public disagrees;)

                  >Wetworks was very much a direct continuation of a lot of themes and plot points >from Volume 1, and the first nine issues, written by Mike Carey, were really good. 

                  Wetworks wasn't bad plot-wise. It severely screwed up the personalities of a couple of central characters, though. It reversed Dozer and Claymore in terms of their personae, and it completely screwed up Raithan...


                  >Welcome to Tranquility was consistently good from start to finish.  And I know it's >not the most intensely WildStorm-related book ever, but it was full of great .characters and good stories, and it's easily the best thing Gail Simone has ever >written, ever.

                  No comment. Seemed like Astro City: The Nursing Home Years so I stayed far away;)

                  >StormWatch PHD was pretty good but only while Mahnke was drawing it. 

                  It was good all the way through.

                  >Deathblow's a little weird, but I was digging it.  It felt very old-school WildStorm, >with paranoid government conspiracies running around.

                  It had nothing whatsoever to do with Deathblow, completely rewrote continuity for no reason, and after 5 issues had not plot advancement whatsoever. Awful book.

                  >Midnighter started off a little shaky, while I liked Sprouse's art, I wasn't too keen on >Garth Ennis's WWII story.  Since Giffen's picked up the writing, it's been pretty >interesting to read, and they've been trying to give Midnighter a more >three-dimensional personality.

                  Another over-worked Authority cash-grab. It also has nothing whatsoever to do with WS continuity.

                  >I wasn't a fan of the first arc of Gail Simone's Gen 13, but the second arc was really >strong.  This title is a bit more serious than the Adam Warren run, but it's been >exploring some interesting things about youth culture, reality tv, and online video, >etc, and it's not bad.  I'd still say that Gen 13 is the weakest of the relaunch titles, >but it's still around, so it must be doing okay.

                  It's doing okay because a select cult following hopelessly cling to it because they're obsessed with Gen13. However, it also completely rewrote continuity for no reason whatsoever, and NOT in a good way, and it changed the personae of the characters into cardboard mush.

                  >WildStorm Armageddon was a bit of a waste of time, although it had some >FANTASTIC art.

                  If I want pure art, I'll buy a portfolio. Art in a comic is a part of the story - and this didn't have much of one. It was a terrible story, and had only the thinnest of plots

                  >WildStorm Revelations is pretty good, I think it's a nice treat for both old-school >fans and new-school fans, as it's trying to be a bit of a bridge between the >generations.  The old-school fans get a WildStorm Universe that is connected again, >with some old relationships being revisited, like Marc Slayton and his daughter, and >some new ones being revealed, like the fact that Majestic, The High, and >Tranquility's Maximum Man used to fight crime together, and that there WAS in fact >a Golden Age in WildStorm (new school idea) but that entire generation of >superheroes were wiped out by a vast government conspiracy (good old >WildStorm).

                  The only thing it 'revealed' was that the WS writers today haven't read a single issue of the older books.

                  >I think the biggest problem, to be honest, is us as fans.  There's been so many >incarnations of WildStorm and their titles that it's hard for some people to adapt or >whatever.  Not that anyone should buy books that they don't enjoy, but the Brandon >Choi WildC.A.T.s and Joe Casey Wildcats don't appeal to the same people, you >know?  

                  I liked both. Even before 2.0, however, WS had a VERY strong universal continuity for 8+ years. Even most of the earlier relaunches stuck to that continuity. Even 2.0 stuck to it. And when Brubaker did Point Blank, etc., he warped some of the characters' (unfortunately) personalities, but at least he did so within the continuity.

                  You can't keep relaunching, rewriting, recreating. Fewer and fewer people will care, and you end up becoming a ridiculous parody of yourself. That's what WS is now. The side books (non-WSU) are strong, and the 'main' books are a joke.

                  >While I seem to be in the minority, I've always enjoyed WildStorm for its versatility >and its ability to radically change its status quo and its characters.  I like the idea of >how fluid it is, and how the tone and styles change.  I think WildStorm have given a >lot of talented creators the freedom to come up with some pretty wild ideas.  Do I >miss the old-school spandex days?  Sometimes.  Do I miss the inter-continuity?  >Sometimes.  But I feel that the quality is still there, and we're still being treated to >some high-caliber storytelling from the likes of Christos Gage, Chris Sprouse, Keith >Giffen, etc.
                   
                  People can have freedom and creativity within continuity as well. You don't have to break continuity to get zany, so to speak.

                  But it's not just WS anyhow - WS is just the extreme. There are massive holes and gaps sprouting in the Marvel and DC continuity as well. The editors can't edit, and seem to rarely pay attention or even talk to one another, and even writers who work on multiple books ignore their own books, let alone other writers' books. It's a selfish, 'I'm doing what *I* want, and don't give a rat's ass about other books' mentality that has become the 'new' comic book way.


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