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Re: Metropolitian France

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  • Paul
    So then the tactic became that if the Germnas were intent on taking all the ports in France before declaring Vichy, you could manage to get enough of the BBs
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 1, 2013
      So then the tactic became that if the Germnas were intent on taking all the ports in France before declaring Vichy, you could manage to get enough of the BBs damaged and RTB any that remained to Corsica.

      Hence the rule was changed by the FAQ.


      --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Baird" wrote:
      >
      > Except that it doesn't say "French Home Country port" - it says "Metropolitan French Port", and in the previous section, 17.1, it says:
      >
      > "If you install a Vichy Government, Metropolitan France itself is divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if still French controlled) and Occupied France."
      >
      > Now, while there is never any other specific definition for "Metropolitan France", the fact that one of its component parts includes Corsica logically indicates that Corsica is part of "Metropolitan France."
      >
      > Getting away from the exact letter of the rule, the spirit of the rule is clearly that if you put the ships in one of the Administration groups, you could roll for them to go Free with a reasonable chance of success (depending on which one they're in), and thus the rules impose a penalty to the odds of the colonies going free to discourage the French Navy from simply running away.  This was a common tactic in earlier versions of RAW that did not impose the -2, at least for the Richelieu and Bearn. Anything in Corsica is guaranteed to go Vichy, as long as Corsica is/was French controlled, and thus there is no need from that reasoning to impose the -2 if there are French ships in French Corsican ports.
      >
      >
      >
    • John A. Baird
      I think you re misreading the FAQ here.  Any BB in Corsica would not penalize you, just like you aren t penalized if those ships are in the repair pool or
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 1, 2013
        I think you're misreading the FAQ here.  Any BB in Corsica would not penalize you, just like you aren't penalized if those ships are in the repair pool or construction pool etc - only those in one of the Administration Groups that could go free.  

        FAQ question:

        "Not currently in a Metropolitan French
        port" does not include force pools, scrap
        pile, repair pool, construction pool, and
        production spiral correct?
        Answer:
        Only original French home country ports
        count. This does not include force pools,
        scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool,
        and production spiral, nor does it include
        the port in the territory of Corsica. Date
        19/01/2009



        ________________________________
        From: Paul <paul_wiffer@...>
        To: wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 3:51 PM
        Subject: [wifdiscussion] Re: Metropolitian France


         
        So then the tactic became that if the Germnas were intent on taking all the ports in France before declaring Vichy, you could manage to get enough of the BBs damaged and RTB any that remained to Corsica.

        Hence the rule was changed by the FAQ.


        --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Baird" wrote:
        >
        > Except that it doesn't say "French Home Country port" - it says "Metropolitan French Port", and in the previous section, 17.1, it says:
        >
        > "If you install a Vichy Government, Metropolitan France itself is divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if still French controlled) and Occupied France."
        >
        > Now, while there is never any other specific definition for "Metropolitan France", the fact that one of its component parts includes Corsica logically indicates that Corsica is part of "Metropolitan France."
        >
        > Getting away from the exact letter of the rule, the spirit of the rule is clearly that if you put the ships in one of the Administration groups, you could roll for them to go Free with a reasonable chance of success (depending on which one they're in), and thus the rules impose a penalty to the odds of the colonies going free to discourage the French Navy from simply running away.  This was a common tactic in earlier versions of RAW that did not impose the -2, at least for the Richelieu and Bearn. Anything in Corsica is guaranteed to go Vichy, as long as Corsica is/was French controlled, and thus there is no need from that reasoning to impose the -2 if there are French ships in French Corsican ports.
        >
        >
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Paul
        I think you are ignoring the first sentence of the answer. Corsica is not part of the original French home country.
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 1, 2013
          I think you are ignoring the first sentence of the answer. Corsica is not part of the original French home country.


          --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Baird" wrote:
          >
          > I think you're misreading the FAQ here.  Any BB in Corsica would not penalize you, just like you aren't penalized if those ships are in the repair pool or construction pool etc - only those in one of the Administration Groups that could go free.  
          >
          > FAQ question:
          >
          > "Not currently in a Metropolitan French
          > port" does not include force pools, scrap
          > pile, repair pool, construction pool, and
          > production spiral correct?
          > Answer:
          > Only original French home country ports
          > count. This does not include force pools,
          > scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool,
          > and production spiral, nor does it include
          > the port in the territory of Corsica. Date
          > 19/01/2009
          >
          >
          >
        • tobiasv74
          Ok, Paul, I can see that the FAQ explicitly states that Corsica is not included. BUT, I would also say that in this case the FAQ is not a clarification, it
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
            Ok, Paul, I can see that the FAQ explicitly states that Corsica is not included.

            BUT, I would also say that in this case the FAQ is not a clarification, it represents CHANGING the rule. I looked at the latest available draft of RAW 8 I have and I see that still has the wording of "Metropolitan port" in 17.2 so that should probably be fixed.

            (Otoh, a German player who captures all French home country port should also be able to take out Corsica if they think it´s that important to get the -2 on the rolls. Or just not sink enough BBs that Corsica can hold all on-map BBs. To me, the rule is in place to stop the French player from being cheezy with his BBs to get them to Free France, since Corsica always go Vichy changing the rule to exclude Corsica does not add more incentive for the French not to do cheeze. But it does encourage Germany to do so.)

            / Tobias

            --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" wrote:
            >
            > I think you are ignoring the first sentence of the answer. Corsica is not part of the original French home country.
            >
            >
            > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Baird" wrote:
            > >
            > > I think you're misreading the FAQ here.  Any BB in Corsica would not penalize you, just like you aren't penalized if those ships are in the repair pool or construction pool etc - only those in one of the Administration Groups that could go free.  
            > >
            > > FAQ question:
            > >
            > > "Not currently in a Metropolitan French
            > > port" does not include force pools, scrap
            > > pile, repair pool, construction pool, and
            > > production spiral correct?
            > > Answer:
            > > Only original French home country ports
            > > count. This does not include force pools,
            > > scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool,
            > > and production spiral, nor does it include
            > > the port in the territory of Corsica. Date
            > > 19/01/2009
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • John A. Baird
            Furthermore... The way the FAQ reads, it s stating that you get the -2 if they are not in a French Home Country Port, UNLESS one of the following is true:
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
              Furthermore...

              The way the FAQ reads, it's stating that you get the -2 if they are not in a French Home Country Port, UNLESS one of the following is true:
              Units in:
              -Force Pools
              -Scrap Pile
              -Repair Pool
              -Construction Pool
              -Production Spiral
              -Corsican Ports

              By your interpretation, if I as the French player have not repaired any of the BB that start in the repair pool, I suffer the -2?

              That makes no sense to me.


              ________________________________
              From: tobiasv74 <vintheimer@...>
              To: wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:27 AM
              Subject: [wifdiscussion] Re: Metropolitian France


               
              Ok, Paul, I can see that the FAQ explicitly states that Corsica is not included.

              BUT, I would also say that in this case the FAQ is not a clarification, it represents CHANGING the rule. I looked at the latest available draft of RAW 8 I have and I see that still has the wording of "Metropolitan port" in 17.2 so that should probably be fixed.

              (Otoh, a German player who captures all French home country port should also be able to take out Corsica if they think it´s that important to get the -2 on the rolls. Or just not sink enough BBs that Corsica can hold all on-map BBs. To me, the rule is in place to stop the French player from being cheezy with his BBs to get them to Free France, since Corsica always go Vichy changing the rule to exclude Corsica does not add more incentive for the French not to do cheeze. But it does encourage Germany to do so.)

              / Tobias

              --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" wrote:
              >
              > I think you are ignoring the first sentence of the answer. Corsica is not part of the original French home country.
              >
              >
              > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Baird" wrote:
              > >
              > > I think you're misreading the FAQ here.  Any BB in Corsica would not penalize you, just like you aren't penalized if those ships are in the repair pool or construction pool etc - only those in one of the Administration Groups that could go free.  
              > >
              > > FAQ question:
              > >
              > > "Not currently in a Metropolitan French
              > > port" does not include force pools, scrap
              > > pile, repair pool, construction pool, and
              > > production spiral correct?
              > > Answer:
              > > Only original French home country ports
              > > count. This does not include force pools,
              > > scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool,
              > > and production spiral, nor does it include
              > > the port in the territory of Corsica. Date
              > > 19/01/2009
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • William Popovich
              It is NOT Metropolitan France, unless it is the common English interpretation that means just France. There is no such thing as Metropolitan France in
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                It is NOT Metropolitan France, unless it is the "common English"
                interpretation that means just France. There is no such thing as
                Metropolitan France in specialized game terms. The wording has to mean
                either France, or Metropolitan Vichy France. And it means France with no
                other explanation in the rules, I believe we can get the wording changed by
                next rules set.

                On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:23 PM, hansondavid4 <hansondavid4@...>wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > I agree it is a territory. But it is also in the definition of
                > Metropolitan France. As such, having BB's there would not subject France to
                > the -2 on the Vichy roll.
                >
                > There would be a no advantage to being there. All metropolitan france
                > become conquer by the player the collaped it. Corsica does not go to free
                > france like other territories. They would still be overrun.
                >
                > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" wrote:
                > >
                > > Corsica can never be part of the original French home country because by
                > the definition in the RAW, it is a territory.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "hansondavid4" wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I do not think I agree with you interpretation. I think Corsica does
                > avoid the -2 penalty.
                > > >
                > > > 17.2: Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map
                > > > French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan
                > > > French port.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > FAQ says:
                > > > Only original French home country ports
                > > > count. This does not include force pools,
                > > > scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool,
                > > > and production spiral, nor does it include
                > > > the port in the territory of Corsica. Date
                > > > 19/01/2009
                > > >
                > > > The first sentance I think confuses matters by saying "home county"
                > but the list below, which includes Corsica are places that do not count
                > against you ships not being in a French port.
                > > >
                > > > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > The important thing here is that Corsica is NOT a base for the
                > French BBs which allows the Allies to dodge the: "Subtract 2 from each die
                > roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan
                > French port."
                > > > >
                > > > > See FAQ Q17.1-1 and Q17.2-1.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, William Popovich wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > "Metropolitan France" is mainland France plus Corsica, at start of
                > 17.1.
                > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up - I've apparently been doing this
                > wrong as well
                > > > > > (treating it as just France).
                > > > > >
                > > > > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Scott wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > > **
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > THis may seem stupid, but what is metropolitian France? Is it
                > all of
                > > > > > > France, then why not just say France. Does it just me the area
                > that becomes
                > > > > > > Vichy? If so a French BB in Bourdeaux would then count as a plus
                > on the
                > > > > > > Vichy roll. We have always played it as all of France but we
                > have made
                > > > > > > other mistakes......
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • William Popovich
                Yes, the Germans can wait till they take all the ports in France. However, this allows the French to surrender and keep their whole fleet and army that is
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                  Yes, the Germans can wait till they take all the ports in France. However,
                  this allows the French to surrender and keep their whole fleet and army
                  that is outside France (which the whole fleet will indeed be, when this
                  happens). The FAQ matters, and should be considered "part of the rulebook"
                  for everyone until the next rules set rears its ugly head :-) At that point
                  all older FAQs are rendered invalid.

                  On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Paul <paul_wiffer@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > So then the tactic became that if the Germnas were intent on taking all
                  > the ports in France before declaring Vichy, you could manage to get enough
                  > of the BBs damaged and RTB any that remained to Corsica.
                  >
                  > Hence the rule was changed by the FAQ.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Baird" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Except that it doesn't say "French Home Country port" - it says
                  > "Metropolitan French Port", and in the previous section, 17.1, it says:
                  > >
                  > > "If you install a Vichy Government, Metropolitan France itself is
                  > divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if
                  > still French controlled) and Occupied France."
                  > >
                  > > Now, while there is never any other specific definition for
                  > "Metropolitan France", the fact that one of its component parts includes
                  > Corsica logically indicates that Corsica is part of "Metropolitan France."
                  > >
                  > > Getting away from the exact letter of the rule, the spirit of the rule
                  > is clearly that if you put the ships in one of the Administration groups,
                  > you could roll for them to go Free with a reasonable chance of success
                  > (depending on which one they're in), and thus the rules impose a penalty to
                  > the odds of the colonies going free to discourage the French Navy from
                  > simply running away. � This was a common tactic in earlier versions of RAW
                  > that did not impose the -2, at least for the Richelieu and Bearn. Anything
                  > in Corsica is guaranteed to go Vichy, as long as Corsica is/was French
                  > controlled, and thus there is no need from that reasoning to impose the -2
                  > if there are French ships in French Corsican ports.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • William Popovich
                  Summing up the rule: Each and every on map French BB and CV must be in a home country port of the original French home country or there is the penalty to the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                    Summing up the rule: Each and every on map French BB and CV must be in a
                    home country port of the original French home country or there is the
                    penalty to the die rolls for control.

                    On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 7:35 PM, John A. Baird <darkotaku@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > I think you're misreading the FAQ here. Any BB in Corsica would not
                    > penalize you, just like you aren't penalized if those ships are in the
                    > repair pool or construction pool etc - only those in one of the
                    > Administration Groups that could go free.
                    >
                    > FAQ question:
                    >
                    > "Not currently in a Metropolitan French
                    > port" does not include force pools, scrap
                    > pile, repair pool, construction pool, and
                    > production spiral correct?
                    > Answer:
                    > Only original French home country ports
                    > count. This does not include force pools,
                    > scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool,
                    > and production spiral, nor does it include
                    > the port in the territory of Corsica. Date
                    > 19/01/2009
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Paul paul_wiffer@...>
                    > To: wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 3:51 PM
                    > Subject: [wifdiscussion] Re: Metropolitian France
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > So then the tactic became that if the Germnas were intent on taking all
                    > the ports in France before declaring Vichy, you could manage to get enough
                    > of the BBs damaged and RTB any that remained to Corsica.
                    >
                    > Hence the rule was changed by the FAQ.
                    >
                    > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Baird" wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Except that it doesn't say "French Home Country port" - it says
                    > "Metropolitan French Port", and in the previous section, 17.1, it says:
                    > >
                    > > "If you install a Vichy Government, Metropolitan France itself is
                    > divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if
                    > still French controlled) and Occupied France."
                    > >
                    > > Now, while there is never any other specific definition for
                    > "Metropolitan France", the fact that one of its component parts includes
                    > Corsica logically indicates that Corsica is part of "Metropolitan France."
                    > >
                    > > Getting away from the exact letter of the rule, the spirit of the rule
                    > is clearly that if you put the ships in one of the Administration groups,
                    > you could roll for them to go Free with a reasonable chance of success
                    > (depending on which one they're in), and thus the rules impose a penalty to
                    > the odds of the colonies going free to discourage the French Navy from
                    > simply running away. � This was a common tactic in earlier versions of RAW
                    > that did not impose the -2, at least for the Richelieu and Bearn. Anything
                    > in Corsica is guaranteed to go Vichy, as long as Corsica is/was French
                    > controlled, and thus there is no need from that reasoning to impose the -2
                    > if there are French ships in French Corsican ports.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • William Popovich
                    You have not looked at the latest version of the discussion on the rules group as to how to change the wording of that rule :-) ... [Non-text portions of this
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                      You have not looked at the latest version of the discussion on the rules
                      group as to how to change the wording of that rule :-)

                      On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 3:27 AM, tobiasv74 <vintheimer@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > Ok, Paul, I can see that the FAQ explicitly states that Corsica is not
                      > included.
                      >
                      > BUT, I would also say that in this case the FAQ is not a clarification, it
                      > represents CHANGING the rule. I looked at the latest available draft of RAW
                      > 8 I have and I see that still has the wording of "Metropolitan port" in
                      > 17.2 so that should probably be fixed.
                      >
                      > (Otoh, a German player who captures all French home country port should
                      > also be able to take out Corsica if they think it�s that important to get
                      > the -2 on the rolls. Or just not sink enough BBs that Corsica can hold all
                      > on-map BBs. To me, the rule is in place to stop the French player from
                      > being cheezy with his BBs to get them to Free France, since Corsica always
                      > go Vichy changing the rule to exclude Corsica does not add more incentive
                      > for the French not to do cheeze. But it does encourage Germany to do so.)
                      >
                      > / Tobias
                      >
                      > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I think you are ignoring the first sentence of the answer. Corsica is
                      > not part of the original French home country.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Baird" wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I think you're misreading the FAQ here. � Any BB in Corsica would not
                      > penalize you, just like you aren't penalized if those ships are in the
                      > repair pool or construction pool etc - only those in one of the
                      > Administration Groups that could go free. �
                      > > >
                      > > > FAQ question:
                      > > >
                      > > > "Not currently in a Metropolitan French
                      > > > port" does not include force pools, scrap
                      > > > pile, repair pool, construction pool, and
                      > > > production spiral correct?
                      > > > Answer:
                      > > > Only original French home country ports
                      > > > count. This does not include force pools,
                      > > > scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool,
                      > > > and production spiral, nor does it include
                      > > > the port in the territory of� Corsica. Date
                      > > > 19/01/2009
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • William Popovich
                      The problem comes because there is no such thing as Metropolitan France. There is France, and there is Metropolitan Vichy France. Hence the clarification/FAQ.
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                        The problem comes because there is no such thing as Metropolitan France.
                        There is France, and there is Metropolitan Vichy France. Hence the
                        clarification/FAQ.

                        On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:56 AM, John A. Baird <darkotaku@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Except that it doesn't say "French Home Country port" - it says
                        > "Metropolitan French Port", and in the previous section, 17.1, it says:
                        >
                        > "If you install a Vichy Government, Metropolitan France itself is divided
                        > into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if still
                        > French controlled) and Occupied France."
                        >
                        > Now, while there is never any other specific definition for "Metropolitan
                        > France", the fact that one of its component parts includes Corsica
                        > logically indicates that Corsica is part of "Metropolitan France."
                        >
                        > Getting away from the exact letter of the rule, the spirit of the rule is
                        > clearly that if you put the ships in one of the Administration groups, you
                        > could roll for them to go Free with a reasonable chance of success
                        > (depending on which one they're in), and thus the rules impose a penalty to
                        > the odds of the colonies going free to discourage the French Navy from
                        > simply running away. This was a common tactic in earlier versions of RAW
                        > that did not impose the -2, at least for the Richelieu and Bearn. Anything
                        > in Corsica is guaranteed to go Vichy, as long as Corsica is/was French
                        > controlled, and thus there is no need from that reasoning to impose the -2
                        > if there are French ships in French Corsican ports.
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Paul paul_wiffer@...>
                        > To: wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:20 AM
                        > Subject: [wifdiscussion] Re: Metropolitian France
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > They are not overrun if Vichy is declared because Corsica is part of
                        > Vichy. Just the same as they are not overrun if they were in Toulon. We are
                        > talking about the formation of Vichy, not about collapsing it.
                        >
                        > However, the FAQ answer clarifies that if they are on the map and not in a
                        > French home country port, then this means that not all BBs are in France
                        > and therefore you must subtract two from the roll.
                        >
                        > They do not count as being anywhere if they are in force pools, scrap
                        > pile, repair pool, construction pool,or production spiral. But if they are
                        > in Corsica then they are obviously ON-MAP, which is what the subtract two
                        > proviso is talking about.
                        >
                        > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "hansondavid4" wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I agree it is a territory. But it is also in the definition of
                        > Metropolitan France. As such, having BB's there would not subject France to
                        > the -2 on the Vichy roll.
                        > >
                        > > There would be a no advantage to being there. All metropolitan france
                        > become conquer by the player the collaped it. Corsica does not go to free
                        > france like other territories. They would still be overrun.
                        > >
                        > > --- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Corsica can never be part of the original French home country because
                        > by the definition in the RAW, it is a territory.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • John A. Baird
                        Fair enough. I tend to play with LoC Vichy anyway, but it s good to get these things clarified. On an entirely unrelated rules clarification needed, the
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 3, 2013
                          Fair enough. I tend to play with LoC Vichy anyway, but it's good to get these things clarified.

                          On an entirely unrelated rules clarification needed, the advance build rules read:

                          "Each unit built in this fashion costs its usual amount plus 50% of the unit's cost (minimum of 2), and takes 1 extra turn to build."

                          As others have informed me, the intent of this is that the addition is a minimum of 2, such that advance building a FTR2 by one year is a total cost of 2+2=4. The way the rule is worded is ambiguous, and could also be read that the minimum total cost of the unit is 2, and thus a FTR2 advance built 1 year would be 3. Thus I would suggest the wording be changed to read:

                          "Each unit built in this fashion costs its usual amount plus 50% of the unit's cost (minimum additional cost of 2), and takes 1 extra turn to build."


                          Alternately, change the example from an AMPH to an SCS1/2, such that the example reads:

                          "the USA advance builds an SCS from next year's force pool. The unit costs 1 for first round and 1 for second round and takes 5 turns. The build ahead increases the first round cost to 3 (base 1 + (2 build points cost of the unit divided by 2, minimum additional cost of 2 = 2)), and it takes 6 turns instead of 4."


                          ________________________________
                          From: William Popovich <popovichwilliam@...>
                          To: wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 7:51 AM
                          Subject: Re: [wifdiscussion] Re: Metropolitian France

                          Summing up the rule: Each and every on map French BB and CV must be in a
                          home country port of the original French home country or there is the
                          penalty to the die rolls for control.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • William Popovich
                          The intent is unequivocably to add a minimum of 2 to the costs. I have argued repeatedly that this is not what this means as written, but that is what is
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 3, 2013
                            The intent is unequivocably to add a minimum of 2 to the costs. I have
                            argued repeatedly that this is not what this means as written, but that is
                            what is desired.

                            Almost 100 percent of the reason was the desire that fighters cost the same
                            when playing with pilots as without. This way a 2 cost FTR costs 4 to
                            advance build a year, plus 2 for a pilot. This matches up with a non-pilots
                            game where the same plane would cost 6 to advance build.

                            Wording has been changed appropriately for the next edition of the rules, I
                            believe.

                            On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 5:28 AM, John A. Baird <darkotaku@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Fair enough. I tend to play with LoC Vichy anyway, but it's good to get
                            > these things clarified.
                            >
                            > On an entirely unrelated rules clarification needed, the advance build
                            > rules read:
                            >
                            > "Each unit built in this fashion costs its usual amount plus 50% of the
                            > unit's cost (minimum of 2), and takes 1 extra turn to build."
                            >
                            > As others have informed me, the intent of this is that the addition is a
                            > minimum of 2, such that advance building a FTR2 by one year is a total cost
                            > of 2+2=4. The way the rule is worded is ambiguous, and could also be read
                            > that the minimum total cost of the unit is 2, and thus a FTR2 advance built
                            > 1 year would be 3. Thus I would suggest the wording be changed to read:
                            >
                            > "Each unit built in this fashion costs its usual amount plus 50% of the
                            > unit's cost (minimum additional cost of 2), and takes 1 extra turn to
                            > build."
                            >
                            > Alternately, change the example from an AMPH to an SCS1/2, such that the
                            > example reads:
                            >
                            > "the USA advance builds an SCS from next year's force pool. The unit costs
                            > 1 for first round and 1 for second round and takes 5 turns. The build ahead
                            > increases the first round cost to 3 (base 1 + (2 build points cost of the
                            > unit divided by 2, minimum additional cost of 2 = 2)), and it takes 6 turns
                            > instead of 4."
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: William Popovich popovichwilliam@...>
                            > To: wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 7:51 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [wifdiscussion] Re: Metropolitian France
                            >
                            > Summing up the rule: Each and every on map French BB and CV must be in a
                            > home country port of the original French home country or there is the
                            > penalty to the die rolls for control.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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