Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Charles Wesley Conference, September 2007

Expand Messages
  • Gareth Lloyd
    Generator Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium) Members of the list may be interested to know that there is an international conference taking place at Liverpool
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 4, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Generator Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium) Members of the list may be interested to know that there is an international conference taking place at Liverpool Hope University in September 2007 to commemorate the Charles Wesley tercentenary. Further details can be found on the following link:

      http://www.hope.ac.uk/research/call-for-papers-wesley-conference.htm

      Gareth Lloyd
      Methodist Archivist


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rev. Andrew B. Glos
      It is really too bad that it is all the way in the UK. I would love to do something like that. Charles Wesley is highly underrated for his influence on the
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 4, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        It is really too bad that it is all the way in the
        UK. I would love to do something like that. Charles
        Wesley is highly underrated for his influence on the
        methodist tradition. I suspect, for years, most people
        never read a single tract by his brother but regularly
        sang his hymns in churches. And music has a way of
        singing down deep into your bones in a way that other
        things at church just never do.

        Andrew

        --- Gareth Lloyd <gareth.lloyd@...>
        wrote:

        > Generator Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)
        > Members of the list may be interested to know that
        > there is an international conference taking place at
        > Liverpool Hope University in September 2007 to
        > commemorate the Charles Wesley tercentenary. Further
        > details can be found on the following link:
        >
        >
        http://www.hope.ac.uk/research/call-for-papers-wesley-conference.htm
        >
        > Gareth Lloyd
        > Methodist Archivist
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >
      • Trevor West
        LOL. I have not read any Charles Wesley yet. But that is because there is so much John Wesley stuff to read. I hope to get to Charles writings in 5 years or
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 4, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          LOL. I have not read any Charles Wesley yet. But that
          is because there is so much John Wesley stuff to read.
          I hope to get to Charles writings in 5 years or so.
          --- wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com
          <abglos@...> wrote:
          >
          > It is really too bad that it is all the way in
          the
          > UK. I would love to do something like that. Charles
          > Wesley is highly underrated for his influence on the
          > methodist tradition. I suspect, for years, most
          people
          > never read a single tract by his brother but
          regularly
          > sang his hymns in churches. And music has a way of
          > singing down deep into your bones in a way that
          other
          > things at church just never do.
          >
          > Andrew
          >
          > --- Gareth Lloyd <gareth.lloyd@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > Generator Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)
          > > Members of the list may be interested to know that
          > > there is an international conference taking place
          at
          > > Liverpool Hope University in September 2007 to
          > > commemorate the Charles Wesley tercentenary.
          Further
          > > details can be found on the following link:
          > >
          > >
          >
          http://www.hope.ac.uk/research/call-for-papers-wesley-conference.htm
          > >
          > > Gareth Lloyd
          > > Methodist Archivist
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > > removed]
          > >
          > >
          >



          John Wesley "The one charge then advanced against them was, that they were "righteous overmuch;" that they were abundantly too scrupulous, and too strict, carrying things to great extremes: In particular, that they laid too much stress upon the Rubrics and Canons of the Church; that they insisted too much on observing the Statutes of the University; and that they took the Scriptures in too strict and literal a sense; so that if they were right, few indeed would be saved."

          Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in through the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there are that go in through it: Because strait is the gate, and narrow the way, that leadeth to life, and few there are that find it."







          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Need Mail bonding?
          Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
          http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
        • Trevor West
          I just wanted to write and tell everyone about the changes in my life. Last year as you know I sent that awful email about how I was rebelling against God and
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 4, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            I just wanted to write and tell everyone about the
            changes in my life. Last year as you know I sent that
            awful email about how I was rebelling against God and
            gambling and such. I have been back in fellowship in
            my church for almost a month. But my walk has improved
            incredibly! Day after day I walk in obedience to the
            Bible and them that have the rule over me. Heb 13:17.
            But now I am going further. I am determined to make
            myself as much like John Wesley as possible. I am
            observing Wednesday and Friday fasts as he did. They
            ran to 3pm but I am going to my lunch break at work. I
            printed out John Wesleys Scheme Of Self Examination
            and am going to rewrite it to modern english and am
            applying it to my life. I am showing a genuine concern
            for others as well.
            --- wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com
            <abglos@...> wrote:
            >
            > It is really too bad that it is all the way in
            the
            > UK. I would love to do something like that. Charles
            > Wesley is highly underrated for his influence on the
            > methodist tradition. I suspect, for years, most
            people
            > never read a single tract by his brother but
            regularly
            > sang his hymns in churches. And music has a way of
            > singing down deep into your bones in a way that
            other
            > things at church just never do.
            >
            > Andrew
            >
            > --- Gareth Lloyd <gareth.lloyd@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > Generator Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)
            > > Members of the list may be interested to know that
            > > there is an international conference taking place
            at
            > > Liverpool Hope University in September 2007 to
            > > commemorate the Charles Wesley tercentenary.
            Further
            > > details can be found on the following link:
            > >
            > >
            >
            http://www.hope.ac.uk/research/call-for-papers-wesley-conference.htm
            > >
            > > Gareth Lloyd
            > > Methodist Archivist
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > > removed]
            > >
            > >
            >



            John Wesley "The one charge then advanced against them was, that they were "righteous overmuch;" that they were abundantly too scrupulous, and too strict, carrying things to great extremes: In particular, that they laid too much stress upon the Rubrics and Canons of the Church; that they insisted too much on observing the Statutes of the University; and that they took the Scriptures in too strict and literal a sense; so that if they were right, few indeed would be saved."

            Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in through the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there are that go in through it: Because strait is the gate, and narrow the way, that leadeth to life, and few there are that find it."






            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            Get your own web address.
            Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
            http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
          • Craig L. Adams
            ... When you rewrite it, post a copy to us. -- Craig L. Adams Carlisle United Methodist Church http://www.gbgm-umc.org/carlisle/
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 5, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Trevor West wrote:
              > I
              > printed out John Wesleys Scheme Of Self Examination
              > and am going to rewrite it to modern english and am
              > applying it to my life.

              When you rewrite it, post a copy to us.

              --
              Craig L. Adams
              Carlisle United Methodist Church
              http://www.gbgm-umc.org/carlisle/
              http://homepage.mac.com/craigadams1/
            • Rev. Andrew B. Glos
              ... Trevor that is great. I admire that. Two notes worth changing. Do not be like brother John in the way your relate to the fairer sex. He was, bless him,
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                --- Trevor West <trevor.west@...> wrote:
                > But now I am going further. I am determined to make
                > myself as much like John Wesley as possible.

                Trevor that is great. I admire that. Two notes worth
                changing. Do not be like brother John in the way your
                relate to the fairer sex. He was, bless him, sort of a
                nitwit in that department. Also, avoid following too
                much of his advice on medical issues. His book on home
                remedies and such is fun reading, but your local
                hospital is far more reliable.

                PS. I am glad that God seems to be doing a mighty
                work in your life. May He continue to richly bless you.
              • Tommy
                ... Hey Gang, I think I found what you are looking for. It looks like modern english to me. http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/selfexam.htm Tommy
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 6, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "Craig L. Adams"
                  <craigadams1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Trevor West wrote:
                  > > I
                  > > printed out John Wesleys Scheme Of Self Examination
                  > > and am going to rewrite it to modern english and am
                  > > applying it to my life.
                  >
                  > When you rewrite it, post a copy to us.
                  >
                  > --
                  > Craig L. Adams
                  > Carlisle United Methodist Church
                  > http://www.gbgm-umc.org/carlisle/
                  > http://homepage.mac.com/craigadams1/
                  >

                  Hey Gang,

                  I think I found what you are looking for. It looks like modern
                  english to me.
                  http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/selfexam.htm


                  Tommy
                • Tommy
                  ... Here is another list The following questions are taken from Salvation Army Orders and Regulations for Soldiers, 1950: Am I habitually guilty of any known
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 6, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "Craig L. Adams"
                    <craigadams1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Trevor West wrote:
                    > > I
                    > > printed out John Wesleys Scheme Of Self Examination
                    > > and am going to rewrite it to modern english and am
                    > > applying it to my life.
                    >
                    > When you rewrite it, post a copy to us.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Craig L. Adams
                    > Carlisle United Methodist Church
                    > http://www.gbgm-umc.org/carlisle/
                    > http://homepage.mac.com/craigadams1/
                    >


                    Here is another list

                    The following questions are taken from Salvation Army Orders and
                    Regulations for Soldiers, 1950:
                    Am I habitually guilty of any known sin? Do I practice or allow
                    myself in any thought, word or deed which I know to be wrong?

                    Am I the master of my bodily appetites so as to have no condemnation?
                    Do I allow myself in any indulgence that hurts my holiness, growth,
                    obedience, or usefulness?

                    Are my thoughts and feelings such that I wouldn't be ashamed to hear
                    them published before God?

                    Does the influence of the world cause me to act, or feel or say
                    things that do not show the love of God?

                    Am I doing all in my power for the salvation of sinners?

                    Am I fulfilling the vows and promises I have made before God in the
                    past?

                    Does what I do as a Christian match what I say about being a
                    Christian?

                    Am I consious of any pride in my life?

                    Do I conform to the fashions and customs of this world or do I show
                    that I despise them?

                    Am I in danger of being carried away with worldly desires to be rich
                    or admired?
                  • Andrew B. Glos
                    ... Neat! But sadly, on the eve of our Lord s resurrection I find that I am not very good as being a Christian. Alas! But this is what the old societies were
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 6, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "Tommy" <tj21564@...> wrote:
                      > Here is another list


                      Neat! But sadly, on the eve of our Lord's resurrection I find that I
                      am not very good as being a Christian. Alas! But this is what the old
                      societies were about. Perhaps I can become better, with a little help
                      from my friends.

                      Andrew
                    • xjjeeper
                      Jesus is our example to follow, not John Wesley. God s word says men love your wives as Christ loved the church. If you follow John Wesley you will miss the
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 7, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jesus is our example to follow, not John Wesley. God's word says men
                        love your wives as Christ loved the church. If you follow John Wesley
                        you will miss the level of love God set for us to have for our
                        spouses. Wesley in his own writings forgot his wife for a long time
                        and yet wrote other ladies to encourage them often. Look unto the
                        cross of Christ from which our salvation cometh.
                        I agree with many of John Wesley tenets of faith, but his family
                        compassion was off and biblically Bishops and Elders can not lead if
                        their home life is in disorder.

                        En Christos.

                        Jeff


                        --- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "Rev. Andrew B. Glos"
                        <abglos@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > --- Trevor West <trevor.west@...> wrote:
                        > > But now I am going further. I am determined to make
                        > > myself as much like John Wesley as possible.
                        >
                        > Trevor that is great. I admire that. Two notes worth
                        > changing. Do not be like brother John in the way your
                        > relate to the fairer sex. He was, bless him, sort of a
                        > nitwit in that department. Also, avoid following too
                        > much of his advice on medical issues. His book on home
                        > remedies and such is fun reading, but your local
                        > hospital is far more reliable.
                        >
                        > PS. I am glad that God seems to be doing a mighty
                        > work in your life. May He continue to richly bless you.
                        >
                      • Rev. Andrew B. Glos
                        ... This is something that Wesley himself was wise enough to agree on. He was embarassed about the public attention he recieved later in life. ... Do you know
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 7, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- xjjeeper <xjjeeper@...> wrote:

                          > Jesus is our example to follow, not John Wesley.

                          This is something that Wesley himself was wise
                          enough to agree on. He was embarassed about the public
                          attention he recieved later in life.

                          > biblically Bishops and Elders
                          > can not lead if
                          > their home life is in disorder.

                          Do you know of any place where there is disagreement
                          on this point from Brother Wesley? Maybe you are
                          speaking of JW himself? In that case, JW was not a bad
                          husband, really. The Sophie Hopkins episode was being
                          a bad boyfriend. As for his wife Mary Vazeille, they
                          did not seem to love one another affectionately. They
                          were not close and JW spent a great deal of time on
                          preaching tours. However, none of this was outside of
                          the norm for his time and era. Furthermore, John
                          Wesley always did his husbandly due diligence, caring
                          for her needs and visiting her when time allowed. To
                          us today this seems like a miserable marriage. For the
                          era, however, inaffectionate marriages were the norm.
                          Only Wesley's brother Charles ever commented (and only
                          once I believe) about their marriage not being a very
                          happy one.

                          There is nothing in the marriage to Mary Vazeille
                          that should cast any real negative pale on the the
                          character of Rev. Wesley. (As I said before, Sophie
                          Hopkins is very much another story. He was very out of
                          line on that one, our era or his.)

                          As to your original point in all this, you are
                          right. Follow Jesus, not JW. Follow JW only in that he
                          is a good guide for following more closely in the path
                          of Jesus. If he is not that guide for you, then do not
                          use him. I have friends who like St. Francis, Mother
                          Theresa, Bonhoeffer, Martin Luther King Jr., and
                          others. The great saints of the past can be great
                          lights for us to walk closer to the one who is Light
                          itself.

                          Peace on this Holy Saturday,

                          Andrew



                          "A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having."
                          --- V for Vendetta
                        • Ken H.
                          Wesley, in my opinion, was looking for a companion in the ministry. It is doubtful that he would have married his wife if he thought that she was not in
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 7, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Wesley, in my opinion, was looking for a companion in the ministry. It is doubtful that he would have married his wife if he thought that she was not in harmony with his ministry. I don't remember reading that he ever mistreated his wife, however, the reverse seems to be true. Seems that I read some where that she would drag him around the house by the hair of his head. I think we need to give Wesley the benefit of the doubt.

                            Ken

                            xjjeeper <xjjeeper@...> wrote: Jesus is our example to follow, not John Wesley. God's word says men
                            love your wives as Christ loved the church. If you follow John Wesley
                            you will miss the level of love God set for us to have for our
                            spouses. Wesley in his own writings forgot his wife for a long time
                            and yet wrote other ladies to encourage them often. Look unto the
                            cross of Christ from which our salvation cometh.
                            I agree with many of John Wesley tenets of faith, but his family
                            compassion was off and biblically Bishops and Elders can not lead if
                            their home life is in disorder.

                            En Christos.

                            Jeff

                            --- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "Rev. Andrew B. Glos"
                            <abglos@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > --- Trevor West <trevor.west@...> wrote:
                            > > But now I am going further. I am determined to make
                            > > myself as much like John Wesley as possible.
                            >
                            > Trevor that is great. I admire that. Two notes worth
                            > changing. Do not be like brother John in the way your
                            > relate to the fairer sex. He was, bless him, sort of a
                            > nitwit in that department. Also, avoid following too
                            > much of his advice on medical issues. His book on home
                            > remedies and such is fun reading, but your local
                            > hospital is far more reliable.
                            >
                            > PS. I am glad that God seems to be doing a mighty
                            > work in your life. May He continue to richly bless you.
                            >






                            ---------------------------------
                            Don't pick lemons.
                            See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • +magdalen/thomas
                            All, good points - leaving aside any belief or theological point [if there is one in John s case] JW+ was a bit of inane philander and was not trusted by
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 7, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              All, good points - leaving aside any 'belief' or 'theological point' [if there is one in John's case] JW+ was a bit of inane philander and was not trusted by his girlfriend(s) and correspondents that wore skirts, let alone the woman he married but had no love for nor for that matter the bishops, clergy, and confirmed members of The Church i.e. without being too facetious, JW+ was a Godly man that had, in modern terms, a very dysfunctional sexual and family life not to mention a dysfunctional relationship with The Church (CofE). He was the prototype of the uptight 19th and 20th century "Holier than Thou" disoriented protestant minister that we still see today, hung up on everyone else's hang-ups... we all know him or her, the "I'm ok but your screwed up" pulpit thumper.

                              Just delete the above and stick with: He is risen, praise the Lord.

                              Blessings,
                              +Thomas
                              __________________________
                              __________________________
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Ken H.
                              To: wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 4:17 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: Trevor's holiness


                              Wesley, in my opinion, was looking for a companion in the ministry.
                              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

                              Ken

                              xjjeeper <xjjeeper@...> wrote: Jesus is our example to follow, not John Wesley. God's word says men
                              love your wives as Christ loved the church.

                              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
                              En Christos.

                              Jeff

                              --- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "Rev. Andrew B. Glos"
                              <abglos@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > --- Trevor West <trevor.west@...> wrote:
                              > > But now I am going further. I am determined to make
                              > > myself as much like John Wesley as possible.
                              >
                              > Trevor that is great. I admire that. Two notes worth
                              > changing. Do not be like brother John in the way your
                              > relate to the fairer sex. He was, bless him, sort of a
                              > nitwit in that department. Also, avoid following too
                              > much of his advice on medical issues. His book on home
                              > remedies and such is fun reading, but your local
                              > hospital is far more reliable.
                              >
                              > PS. I am glad that God seems to be doing a mighty
                              > work in your life. May He continue to richly bless you.

                              Recent Activity
                              a.. 1New Members
                              Visit Your Group
                              Yahoo! Search
                              Start Searching

                              Find everything

                              you're looking for.

                              Yahoo! TV
                              American Idol

                              Rank your

                              favorites now!

                              Y! GeoCities
                              Free Blogging

                              Share your views

                              with the world.
                              .



                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • jmeyster2003
                              Your note on John Wesley sounds bitter and angry. It also describes a man that I do not recognize. While he was indecisive when it came to his relationships
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 8, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Your note on John Wesley sounds bitter and angry. It also describes
                                a man that I do not recognize. While he was indecisive when it came
                                to his relationships with women, I do not think that he was as
                                dysfunctional as your note indicates. I also do not think that he
                                was unfeeling or the Bible-thumping, arrogant preacher that you
                                describe.

                                The poem that he wrote after he lost Grace Murray tells me that
                                Wesley was a man who loved deeply and felt loss strongly. The poem
                                includes:

                                4. Born on ye wings of Sacred Hope
                                Long had I soar'd, & spurn'd ye ground;
                                When panting for the Mountain-top
                                My Soul a kindred Spirit found;
                                By Heaven intrusted to my Care,
                                The Daughter of my Faith and Prayer.

                                29. Unsearchable thy Judgments are,
                                O Lord, a bottomless Abyss!
                                Yet sure thy Love, thy guardian Care,
                                O'er all thy Works extended is.
                                O why didst thou the Blessing send?
                                Or why thus snatch away my Friend?

                                I also do not think he was the pulpit beating misanthrope that you
                                describe. Rember that this is the man who encouraged women to
                                become active in the Methodist movement. He preached the following
                                in his sermon "On Visiting the Sick":

                                "But may not women, as well as men, bear a part in this honourable
                                service?" Undoubtedly they may; nay, they ought; it is meet, right,
                                and their bounden duty¬Ö. Indeed it has long passed for a maxim with
                                many, that "women are only to be seen, not heard." And accordingly
                                many of them are brought up in such a manner as if they were only
                                designed for agreeable playthings! But is this doing honour to the
                                sex? Or is it a real kindness to them? No; it is the deepest
                                unkindness; it is horrid cruelty; it is mere Turkish barbarity. And
                                I know not how any woman of sense and spirit can submit to it.

                                This is the man who allowed women to preach when others in the
                                Methodist movement felt strongly that they should not.

                                This is the man who was ahead of his time when it came to working
                                with the poor, standing against slavery, and providing free medical
                                care (if only for a time).

                                You and I know very different John Wesleys. The John Wesley that I
                                know was a man of faith, of tremendous energy devoted to the service
                                of God and of focus. He fathered the Methodist movement through
                                dedicated effort. Other evangelical movements of his day have died
                                out or are barely visible today, such as Lady Huntingdon's
                                Connection which in the late 1700s vied with Wesleyan Methodism in
                                membership. John Wesley was not perfect, in any sense of the word.
                                However, as best I can tell, his heart was in the right place
                                knowing above all that God is love.


                                Grace,

                                Jerry
                              • John Earp
                                Unless I have overlooked something somewhere, the bit about Wesley being a philanderer (womanizer) is a completely false accusation. One would think such a
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 8, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Unless I have overlooked something somewhere, the bit
                                  about Wesley being a philanderer (womanizer) is a
                                  completely false accusation. One would think such a
                                  juicy bit of gossip against such a well-known preacher
                                  of Holiness would have been quite well known. I have
                                  never once heard any historian make such an accusation
                                  against Wesley.

                                  It seems clear that he perhaps acted unwisely in
                                  getting married in the first place, for he was already
                                  essentially "married" to the ministry, but other than
                                  that I know of no solid evidence which would support
                                  these wild accusations of John Wesley by
                                  "magdelen/thomas".

                                  John




                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
                                  with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
                                  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
                                • +magdalen/thomas
                                  Jerry, hope we can agree that opinions vary, some Christian scholars of varied denominations, think [e.g.] that John Wesley had no theology, to speak of, while
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 8, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Jerry, hope we can agree that opinions vary, some Christian scholars of varied denominations, think [e.g.] that John Wesley had no theology, to speak of, while others think that he did -or- some would give him full credit for the Methodist Movement and others discredit him for being a failed Anglican Priest and rather unorthodox [not a heretic though for he was, as was Charles, CofE to the end]. And Jerry, NOT "...bitter and angry", just not terribly taken with him just as I am not taken with, for example, a Moody or a Baker et.al. Cults and sects, not all, eventually become denominations and sometimes we just forget their origins. To an outsider, the UMC seems to be in this day-and-age almost Unitarian in its social agenda while what goes under the name of Wesleyan is more Holiness. We do live in the day of religious variety which makes for interesting study and commentary. We have Stott, Packer, and McGrath perchance we just leave JW+ on the shelf (but not his hymns). As to the question of heart we can, if we chose, study his secular relationships a little more closely; Augustine he is not but then JW+ was never sinful enough to become a saint (a little humor please).

                                    To John Wesley's credit, in this time of off-the-wall Anglican/Episcopalian priests and bishop, old JW+ seems like a regular fellow maybe he should be sainted.

                                    Blessings,

                                    +Thomas

                                    [Ok! so let me make that "a disoriented Anglican Priest" that liked attention and who flouted Church authority. I'll not touch the commentary about how much of an egalitarian for women's rights... he certainly was liked my the women that surrounded him... not touch that subject with a ten foot Vergers staff.]

                                    _____________________________
                                    _____________________________
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: jmeyster2003
                                    To: wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:10 PM
                                    Subject: [Wesleyan Theology] John Wesley as "disoriented protestant minister"


                                    Your note on John Wesley sounds bitter and angry. It also describes
                                    a man that I do not recognize. While he was indecisive when it came
                                    to his relationships with women, I do not think that he was as
                                    dysfunctional as your note indicates. I also do not think that he
                                    was unfeeling or the Bible-thumping, arrogant preacher that you
                                    describe.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
                                    xxxxxxxxxxx
                                    membership. John Wesley was not perfect, in any sense of the word.
                                    However, as best I can tell, his heart was in the right place
                                    knowing above all that God is love.

                                    Grace,

                                    Jerry






                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/748 - Release Date: 4/5/2007 3:33 PM


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • +magdalen/thomas
                                    John, I ll take that back, I most have been thinking of Bill Clinton. [Or was that Jimmy Carter and the biblical bit about the sin being in the heart/mind. The
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Apr 8, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      John, I'll take that back, I most have been thinking of Bill Clinton. [Or was that Jimmy Carter and the biblical bit about the sin being in the heart/mind. The infamous Playboy interview.] The dear wife was jealous for no good reason; one really does have to wonder; guess she was just irrational and a wee bit paranoid as in one of those "woman things".
                                      +Thomas
                                      _________________________
                                      _________________________
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: John Earp
                                      To: wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 9:58 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Wesleyan Theology] John Wesley as "disoriented protestant minister"



                                      Unless I have overlooked something somewhere, the bit
                                      about Wesley being a philanderer (womanizer) is a
                                      completely false accusation. One would think such a
                                      juicy bit of gossip against such a well-known preacher
                                      of Holiness would have been quite well known. I have
                                      never once heard any historian make such an accusation
                                      against Wesley.

                                      It seems clear that he perhaps acted unwisely in
                                      getting married in the first place, for he was already
                                      essentially "married" to the ministry, but other than
                                      that I know of no solid evidence which would support
                                      these wild accusations of John Wesley by
                                      "magdelen/thomas".

                                      John

                                      __________________________________________________________
                                      Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
                                      with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
                                      http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather





                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/748 - Release Date: 4/5/2007 3:33 PM


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Trevor West
                                      Thanks for that fantastic link! ... Adams ... Examination ... am ... looks like modern ... John Wesley The one charge then advanced against them was, that
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Apr 10, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thanks for that fantastic link!
                                        --- wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com
                                        <tj21564@...> wrote:
                                        > --- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "Craig L.
                                        Adams"
                                        > <craigadams1@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Trevor West wrote:
                                        > > > I
                                        > > > printed out John Wesleys Scheme Of Self
                                        Examination
                                        > > > and am going to rewrite it to modern english and
                                        am
                                        > > > applying it to my life.
                                        > >
                                        > > When you rewrite it, post a copy to us.
                                        > >
                                        > > --
                                        > > Craig L. Adams
                                        > > Carlisle United Methodist Church
                                        > > http://www.gbgm-umc.org/carlisle/
                                        > > http://homepage.mac.com/craigadams1/
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > Hey Gang,
                                        >
                                        > I think I found what you are looking for. It
                                        looks like modern
                                        > english to me.
                                        > http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/selfexam.htm
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Tommy
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >



                                        John Wesley "The one charge then advanced against them was, that they were "righteous overmuch;" that they were abundantly too scrupulous, and too strict, carrying things to great extremes: In particular, that they laid too much stress upon the Rubrics and Canons of the Church; that they insisted too much on observing the Statutes of the University; and that they took the Scriptures in too strict and literal a sense; so that if they were right, few indeed would be saved."

                                        Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in through the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there are that go in through it: Because strait is the gate, and narrow the way, that leadeth to life, and few there are that find it."






                                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                        Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                                        in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
                                        http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
                                      • Rev. Andrew B. Glos
                                        ... According to his journals, Mary was known to Charles Wesley. She had come to society meetings years before the marriage seeking consolation for the death
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Apr 10, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- "Ken H." <khawn@...> wrote:

                                          > Wesley, in my opinion, was looking for a companion
                                          > in the ministry. It is doubtful that he would have
                                          > married his wife if he thought that she was not in
                                          > harmony with his ministry.

                                          According to his journals, Mary was known to Charles
                                          Wesley. She had come to society meetings years before
                                          the marriage seeking consolation for the death of her
                                          first husband and several other personal matters. She
                                          recieved the help and experienced a conversion. She
                                          attended society meetings thereon out and this is
                                          apparently where she met JW.

                                          As I said, it is reported in that article that she
                                          agreed that his work would not end one bit due to the
                                          marriage. So, JW spent just as much time on the road
                                          and after a while, this was no long a pleasing
                                          arrangement for Mary.

                                          The list of things she did to "act out" is pretty
                                          awful.

                                          Andrew
                                        • Gareth Lloyd
                                          Generator Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium) Dear List members, Further to my email of April 4th, the enclosed attachment contains further details of the
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Apr 17, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Generator Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)
                                            Dear List members,

                                            Further to my email of April 4th, the enclosed attachment contains further details of the Charles Wesley conference to be held at Liverpool Hope , including details of main speakers and the registration fee

                                            Gareth Lloyd
                                            Methodist Church Archivist


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.