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Praying in Tongues

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  • trevor.west
    I d like to ask how many of you actually pray in tongues? Anyone? I find Christianity to be very frustrating. It just seems impossible to know what is right
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 2, 2006
      I'd like to ask how many of you actually pray in tongues? Anyone?

      I find Christianity to be very frustrating. It just seems
      impossible to know what is right and what isn't. Like the Jews vs
      British Israel, Calvinism vs Arminiansim, etc.

      My question is this; is the so called "Baptism in the Spirit" where
      people speak in tongues the same experience as "Entire
      Sanctification"? I have my doubts that they are the same. I have
      apparently been "Baptised in the Spirit" and pray in tongues as have
      the other people in my church: Christian Assemblies International.
      According to my church it is required to pray in tongues for evidence
      of receiving the Spirit.

      The people in my church are the most Godly people I've ever met,
      but I would not dare to compare them to John Wesley's description of
      those who have received "Entire Sanctification". The people in my
      church still have desires to do evil, but they resist these
      temptations almost perfectly. John Wesley speaks of people who no
      longer have these evil desires rising up within them.

      I am soooo frustrated!!!

      Here's a couple of interesting articles off the 'net that relate to
      what I'm saying:

      "Perhaps the most important immediate precursor to Pentecostalism was
      the Holiness movement which issued from the heart of Methodism at the
      end of the Nineteenth Century. From John Wesley, the Pentecostals
      inherited the idea of a subsequent crisis experience variously
      called "entire sanctification,"" perfect love," "Christian
      perfection," or "heart purity." It was John Wesley who posited such a
      possibility in his influential tract, A Plain Account of Christian
      Perfection (1766). It was from Wesley that the Holiness Movement
      developed the theology of a "second blessing." It was Wesley's
      colleague, John Fletcher, however, who first called this second
      blessing a "baptism in the Holy Spirit," an experience which brought
      spiritual power to the recipient as well as inner cleansing. This was
      explained in his major work, Checks to Antinominianism (1771). During
      the Nineteenth Century, thousands of Methodists claimed to receive
      this experience, although no one at the time saw any connection with
      this spirituality and speaking in tongues or any of the other
      charisms."

      Now another interesting excerpt from a different website:

      "The two largest Holiness denominations that resulted from the
      national Holiness movement were the Church of the Nazarene and the
      Pilgrim Holiness Church. Although many early Nazarene churches
      included the word "Pentecostal" in their names, they later dropped
      that word to publicly disassociate themselves from the Pentecostal
      movement of the 1900s, when they concluded that emotionalism and
      tongue-speaking had become more important in that movement than
      sanctification. The Pilgrim Holiness group was the forerunner of
      modern-day Pentecostalism, and the most important church in this
      regard was one that emerged in Iowa around 1894, called the "Fire-
      Baptized Holiness Church." Its leader, John Fletcher, previously a
      Baptist minister who had been sanctified, began to call for a "third
      blessing" (to complement the first blessing of conversion and the
      second blessing of sanctification), which he called "the baptism of
      the Holy Ghost and fire" or simply "The Fire." His revivals in the
      Midwest gave rise once again to the emotional fervor of the early
      Methodist revivals; those receiving the fire would "shout, scream,
      speak in tongues, fall into trances, and even get the jerks."
      Fletcher's new interpretation caused much concern and frequent
      rejection by many within the Holiness movement because the Holiness
      advocates had always associated the second blessing, of
      sanctification (holiness) with a baptism by the Holy Ghost and
      considered both to be aspects of the same experience. Note that no
      connection was being made at this time between the baptism of the
      Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. Both were occurring in the camp
      meetings; the baptism of the Holy Ghost was sought, and some people
      who "got into the spirit" often spoke in tongues, but there was no
      hint that this baptism and/or tongue-speaking were necessary
      prerequisites to salvation."

      http://www.oru.edu/university/library/holyspirit/pentorg1.html
      http://www.folkstreams.net/context,103
    • Ken H.
      I went from the holiness movement into the Assembly of God, so I guess you know where I stand on this issue. John Wesley taught that perfect love is the
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 3, 2006
        I went from the holiness movement into the Assembly of God, so I guess you know where I stand on this issue.

        John Wesley taught that perfect love is the initial evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and certainly, he was at least partially right. The "Baptism" incorporates so many things. It seems to me that a lot of how we deal with the "Baptism" has to deal with the manner in which we are taught about it. In the Nazarene Church we taught that speaking in tongues was of the devil, so we wouldn't dare allow ourselves to do it. In the Assemblies we are taught that God wants us to speak in tongues, but very little is said about having a "purified heart", therefore, we don't focus on that feature. Maybe we are getting hung up on having the right doctrine and not really focusing on living the Spirit filled life. I believe in "tongues" but I would rather see a person living a life controlled by the Spirit and filled with love than have them speak in tongues,. Perhaps we should look at the fruit of their experience instead of looking at their theology.

        Ken

        "trevor.west" <trevor.west@...> wrote: I'd like to ask how many of you actually pray in tongues? Anyone?

        I find Christianity to be very frustrating. It just seems
        impossible to know what is right and what isn't. Like the Jews vs
        British Israel, Calvinism vs Arminiansim, etc.

        My question is this; is the so called "Baptism in the Spirit" where
        people speak in tongues the same experience as "Entire
        Sanctification"? I have my doubts that they are the same. I have
        apparently been "Baptised in the Spirit" and pray in tongues as have
        the other people in my church: Christian Assemblies International.
        According to my church it is required to pray in tongues for evidence
        of receiving the Spirit.

        The people in my church are the most Godly people I've ever met,
        but I would not dare to compare them to John Wesley's description of
        those who have received "Entire Sanctification". The people in my
        church still have desires to do evil, but they resist these
        temptations almost perfectly. John Wesley speaks of people who no
        longer have these evil desires rising up within them.

        I am soooo frustrated!!!

        Here's a couple of interesting articles off the 'net that relate to
        what I'm saying:

        "Perhaps the most important immediate precursor to Pentecostalism was
        the Holiness movement which issued from the heart of Methodism at the
        end of the Nineteenth Century. From John Wesley, the Pentecostals
        inherited the idea of a subsequent crisis experience variously
        called "entire sanctification,"" perfect love," "Christian
        perfection," or "heart purity." It was John Wesley who posited such a
        possibility in his influential tract, A Plain Account of Christian
        Perfection (1766). It was from Wesley that the Holiness Movement
        developed the theology of a "second blessing." It was Wesley's
        colleague, John Fletcher, however, who first called this second
        blessing a "baptism in the Holy Spirit," an experience which brought
        spiritual power to the recipient as well as inner cleansing. This was
        explained in his major work, Checks to Antinominianism (1771). During
        the Nineteenth Century, thousands of Methodists claimed to receive
        this experience, although no one at the time saw any connection with
        this spirituality and speaking in tongues or any of the other
        charisms."

        Now another interesting excerpt from a different website:

        "The two largest Holiness denominations that resulted from the
        national Holiness movement were the Church of the Nazarene and the
        Pilgrim Holiness Church. Although many early Nazarene churches
        included the word "Pentecostal" in their names, they later dropped
        that word to publicly disassociate themselves from the Pentecostal
        movement of the 1900s, when they concluded that emotionalism and
        tongue-speaking had become more important in that movement than
        sanctification. The Pilgrim Holiness group was the forerunner of
        modern-day Pentecostalism, and the most important church in this
        regard was one that emerged in Iowa around 1894, called the "Fire-
        Baptized Holiness Church." Its leader, John Fletcher, previously a
        Baptist minister who had been sanctified, began to call for a "third
        blessing" (to complement the first blessing of conversion and the
        second blessing of sanctification), which he called "the baptism of
        the Holy Ghost and fire" or simply "The Fire." His revivals in the
        Midwest gave rise once again to the emotional fervor of the early
        Methodist revivals; those receiving the fire would "shout, scream,
        speak in tongues, fall into trances, and even get the jerks."
        Fletcher's new interpretation caused much concern and frequent
        rejection by many within the Holiness movement because the Holiness
        advocates had always associated the second blessing, of
        sanctification (holiness) with a baptism by the Holy Ghost and
        considered both to be aspects of the same experience. Note that no
        connection was being made at this time between the baptism of the
        Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. Both were occurring in the camp
        meetings; the baptism of the Holy Ghost was sought, and some people
        who "got into the spirit" often spoke in tongues, but there was no
        hint that this baptism and/or tongue-speaking were necessary
        prerequisites to salvation."

        http://www.oru.edu/university/library/holyspirit/pentorg1.html
        http://www.folkstreams.net/context,103






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      • John Earp
        -- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, trevor.west ... Hi Trevor. I do. ... I think the issues you refer to are mainly peripheral to the core of what it
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 4, 2006
          -- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "trevor.west"
          <trevor.west@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'd like to ask how many of you actually pray in tongues? Anyone?

          Hi Trevor. I do.


          > I find Christianity to be very frustrating. It just seems
          > impossible to know what is right and what isn't. Like the Jews vs
          > British Israel, Calvinism vs Arminiansim, etc.

          I think the issues you refer to are mainly peripheral to the core of
          what it means to be a Christian. Focusing on them generally only tends
          to distract one from the main thing--knowing Christ and following Him
          consistently on a daily basis. In my experience, focusing on such
          issues has only tended to stir up pride, arrogance, and strife towards
          others. Unfortunately, whenever one begins down the road of
          systematic theology and apologetics, such issues as Calvinism vs.
          Arminianism, British Israelitism, etc., necessarily loom large, most
          often obscuring one's vision of Christ.

          My 2c,

          John Earp
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