- BIBLE PROPHECY: post-trib pre-wrath (from a Wesleyan prospective)
An Explanation of These Terms
The rapture is what is being located in the order of end time events
with these short abbreviations. My position is post-trib, pre-wrath; if
this is not yours, perhaps it would help you in the belief you do hold
to understand the others and compare. And, faith cometh be hearing, and
hearing from the word of God. And there are some who believe in multiple
raptures and other who believe there is no rapture at all.
Pre-tribs: they believe the rapture is first in the end time events,
---thus the Left Behind scenario, this is very widely held in America,
its' appeal is great, "no hard times for me!"
Post-tribs: they believe the rapture is not until the great tribulation
is at its' peak, the very end, and this group splits into pre-wrath and
Post-wraths believe that the rapture and Armageddon happen all at the
same time, at the "last trump" (found in 1 Cor 15:52), and that the
saints will have gone through the wrath of God on earth. The rapture
for them is not really a rapture but a joining with Jesus who then comes
Pre-wraths believe that after the rapture no one can be saved, and there
is a time laps for God's wrath on the earth and the rest of mankind who
took the Mark, climaxed at Armageddon. So the second coming is in two
phases. The saved have a single coming of Jesus at the rapture, the
lost have a single coming of Jesus at the revelation or Armageddon.
Preterists believe nearly all Bible prophecy was fulfilled around 70AD.
---This is so untenable, I consider this belief subversive and
detrimental and unwelcome. I can't help but think the people who promote
this idea are from cultist and occultist groups. (I know, fairly certain
some come from the Reformed thinking, their effort to keep God sovereign
and themselves out of reach) Then, like one preacher said, "they (some)
can take off their white dress shirt without unbuttoning the top
Then there are the various millennial views, this, all because of the
1,000 years mentioned only in Rev 20; premill: the rapture before the
1,000 years; post-mill: the rapture after the 1,000 years; and amill: no
millennium, these and myself believe Rev 20:1-10 is a review looking
back over this world age, and that the phrase "1,000 years" is as a day,
the day of the "last days," from Christ's victory on the cross / up to
the releasing of Satan to deceive the nation near the very end.
A list of various end time elements and high points are: the 1,000
years, the destruction of Mystery Babylon, the Gog Magog war, the
70th week, the confirmation of the covenant with many, "fulness of
the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved," the Jewish
temple, two witnesses, "the beast" (commonly called Antichrist),
the world church - the false prophet, the 144,000, tribulation in
general, the great tribulation, mark of the beast / abomination of
desolation, rapture, the wrath of God, marriage supper,
Armageddon, and final judgment. These are probably not all but are the
one that come to mind.
Our belief about God influences our individual view of end-time events
So let's think about an individual's understanding (or philosophy) of
religion, or our beliefs about God, that we take with us into our
various views of "end-time" events. What belief about God are we
allowing to interpret the end-time scriptures?
Outside of Christianity, for example, there are the newage-gnostics.
They believe God is a very impersonal cosmic force, Jesus was just a man
and part of this force like everyone else. So the end-time for them
does not exist, they just reincarnate over and over or mystically united
somewhere some how. The real problem for them is they get their reading
material from Seth the demon who is quite an unreliable witness to say
the least. There are many that lead me to believe they base there
beliefs on very nearly no more than an impression or a passing thought.
But we are interested in Biblical prophecy. We receive our information
from God, God "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom
he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his
person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had
by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on
high; Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first
begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth."
Catholics, from what I've heard, have some "days of darkness" and very
little else that I know about for their end-time teachings. They have a
book of late that ridicules the rapture. When we talk about the various
groups and their teachings we are referring to the official teachings or
majority view, and recognize that there are many exceptions in every
group. Now back to pre-trib, post-trib. Protestantism, it divides into
two opposing camps of belief, the Calvinist and the Arminian. And when
we refer to these groups it is to their original doctrinal beliefs.
Church organizations can and have been infiltrated and subverted so that
they no longer teach what their founders taught. And whole churches can
be backslid or never "upslid," sad to say.
The Calvinistic belief is governed by the simple phrase, "God is
sovereign." He is so sovereign that, briefly: man cannot save himself,
so God chooses certain people to be saved, he only died for these
certain ones, they cannot decide their own fate, and once saved they
cannot be lost. With that understanding, how would you expect them to
look at the end times? How senseless for them to be confronted with or
tested by having to reject the mark of the beast. Well the Bible says
someone faces this mark, ---the Jews, ---yes, have the Jews do this
after the rapture. And so we have pre-trib. In reality there is little
or no scriptures able to be twisted into this error. They rely heavily
on their human "authorities." Darby
The other group is the Arminians. They believe that God is sovereign
but also that his nature is holy-love. And he acts only in accord with
his nature. To create beings capable of returning love and devotion and
to be one with him as all lovers wish to be, they must have a time of
testing and time to have worship experiences. So, it is up to all to
choose correctly. Lucifer and all the angels had this same time of
probation and now is man's turn. We take this understanding into the
end-time chronology of events and come up with a different set of
happenings. These two lines of thought are like keys, or a bias. When
you read a scripture you say how does my view fit in here? If it
doesn't, well, some will "make it fit." If it fits, things start
opening up and becoming clearer, and one becomes more secure in their
faith with a clear conscience.
The common approach to prophecy wants to know: the events, the
sequence or timing of these events, the players, and how will it all
effect me. If one is looking for a no cross interpretation, may I say
plainly, you will end up deceived. If one sees the way to eternal life
is a narrow way with much opposition and suffering for Him, then you are
right on. Jesus has been and marked the way for us.
After my study and comparing my conclusions with
others, I have found that I am a post-trib--prewrath
advocate. Here is my look and understanding of the
"others." Not to offend, but here is how it looks
to me. Disclaimer (Everyone has every right to
their own view of end-times and my conclusions may
be wrong.) DBee
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