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4044Re: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?

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  • Bonnie :-)
    Aug 19, 2008
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      That's interesting. I've never been referred to as a closet Pentacostal.

      From: "hunthome1" <hunthome1@...>
      Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:26 AM
      To: <wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?

      With all due respect, your closet Pentecostalism is not terribly
      uncommon. Still, should you encourage others to explore a "prayer
      language" or perhaps be led to do so in the corporate setting, there
      would be tensions in the church nonetheless. Again every use of Greek
      word translated as "tongues" is best understood in our modern
      understanding as "Foreign Language." It has not been changed in any
      of the modern translations as the majority of them have been after
      1906 and to do so would challenge an entire market. Sadly the bible
      translations are funded by publishers who aim to sell their
      translations. This is evident also by the "spirit filled" isle in the
      Christian book store. An open mind, changing "tongues" to foreign
      languages considering also that the aim of the gospel is to go to all
      people rather than to keep to oneself as some prized possession.

      "To go elsewhere." is an honest option rather than to stay and cause
      dissension. There has been centuries of disagreements with the
      Calvinist camp but although these are still unresolved, there remains
      an understanding that there is grace enough for both. Just as it
      would be better to encourage brothers and sisters to attend a
      Calvinist church rather than to forever try to resolve 200 years of
      discussion in a Wesleyan church, trying to resolve the "tongues"
      issue is just as fruitless. There are plenty of bible-believing
      churches where the Pentecostal experiences are welcomed and where
      they will bring unity instead of tension, the invitation is to align
      oneself with such churches in obedience to Christ and a commitment to

      --- In wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com, "Bonnie :-\)" <BRowley3@...>
      > Julie,
      > There is nothing wrong, IMO, with using tongues in our personal
      prayer life.
      > From what I understand, that is the Holy Spirit praying on our
      > Praying publicly & prayer in our 'closet' are two different things.
      I have
      > experienced use of tongues while in my 'closet'.
      > Bonnie
      > Member of Nazarene church since 2000 & baptized via emersion in 2002
      > --------------------------------------------------
      > From: "Julie Kinglsey" <ny.julie@...>
      > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 9:56 AM
      > To: <wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: Re: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?
      > Offered to keep it under wraps or go elsewhere? OMG! I guess alot
      > churches are like that. Wow, no wonder tounges is an issue. I am
      going to a
      > Weslean (sp) church right now and speak in touges in my "prayer
      > --- On Mon, 8/18/08, hunthome1 <hunthome1@...> wrote:
      > From: hunthome1 <hunthome1@...>
      > Subject: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?
      > To: wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 5:14 AM
      > Pardon me,
      > I would like to interject here with this discussion. I do not speak
      > from the Wesleyan church but from the Church of the Nazarene that is
      > of the same holiness tradition.
      > "Speaking in Tongues" is not considered, by the Church of the
      > Nazarene, as a consistent interpretation of scripture in 1 Cor.
      > is no interpretation of the Corinthians passage as an understanding
      > of an angelic or a prayer language prior to April 14, 1906 when a
      > phenomenon happened at the Azusa Street Revival that had no
      > explanation. Reflection on the utterings and the faintings that
      > happened was later tied to the manifestation of the indwelling of
      > Holy Spirit. This then grew throughout the Pentecostal movement.
      > (Pentecostal of coarse implying a current presence and work of the
      > as in the Acts account of Pentecost.) The Church of the Nazarene was
      > founded as the Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene but dropped the
      > Pentecostal aspect because of the perceived fanatical understanding
      > of Pentecostalism of the day.
      > Now, in the 100th year of the founding of the Church of the
      > there is no more support in the denomination with "Speaking in
      > Tongues" than there was then. The simple reason is that the greek
      > word "Glossa" which is simply a distinct language according to The
      > KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon (Found on crosswalk.com) In each
      > instance of this word found in scripture it is in a multicultural
      > setting where many languages would be the norm. It is used as an
      > unknown language in Corinthians in a manner that is understood
      > as "foreign language" where the gift bestowed was to effectively
      > speak in a language understood by the hearers but not originally to
      > the speaker. Interpretations are needed if the speaker does not
      > the language of the audience. It is useless for any speaker, despite
      > the wealth of the words, to speak if the listeners cannot
      > Nowhere is a prayer or angelic language understood in the NT, with
      > the exception of 1 Cor 13:1 which is understood to be more
      > hypothetical stating in essence; "Even if I could speak the language
      > of angels, as if I had something to tell them, but had not love, I
      > would be nothing." This does not imply that Paul ever claimed to
      > speak an angelic language but that, after explaining that he was a
      > linguistic master and efficient in many languages who would find
      > there way into the region, all of the giftedness would be useless if
      > not bridled with Love.
      > For this reason pastors who claim to have a Holy Spirit indwelling
      > that manifests itself in Tongues or other "pentecostalisms" they are
      > offered to keep it under wraps or to go elsewhere.
      > --- In wesleyantheology@ yahoogroups. com, James Bauers
      <yaakov653@ ..>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Shalom Sister Bonnie and fellow sojourners,
      > >
      > > I think that one needs to understand that Paul wrote about tongues
      > are for those who are not saved, so when a 'tongue' is spoken it
      > could be that it was/is only spoken in the 'tongue' of that one un-
      > saved. If you get my meaning. I also understand that it include the
      > use of a private prayer language, even though there are those in the
      > Wesleyan realm that may have a hard time grasping that! I can also
      > relate how the Lord can give the "gift" of a language to one on the
      > mission field. My cousin Paul and his wife Betty went to be Pilgrim-
      > Holiness missionaries in South Africa in the mid 1950's; my cousin
      > Paul within days of arrival had 'picked up' the local language of
      > tribe that they were going to work with. It's a beautiful gifting as
      > it flows truly and as ordered from the Lord!
      > >
      > > James/Yaakov Bauers
      > >
      > >
      > > "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who
      > does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth."
      > 2 Timothy 2:15 (NASB/95)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message ----
      > > From: Bonnie :-) <BRowley3@ .>
      > > To: wesleyantheology@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:37:46 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [Wesleyan Theology] against speaking in tounges?
      > >
      > >
      > > Doesn't the bible say speaking in tongues should not be done
      > an
      > > interpreter is there?
      > > I haven't heard anything at my church implying it be of the devil.
      > But if we
      > > can't understand it, it is useless to those hearing it unless an
      > interpreter
      > > is there.
      > > Joyonya,
      > > Bonnie
      > > a Nazarene
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > ------------------------------------
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