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4043Re: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?

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  • Bonnie :-)
    Aug 19, 2008
      Now that would bother me. Thanks for clarifying.

      From: "Ken H." <khawn@...>
      Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:49 PM
      To: <wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?

      No. Its not. I have seen folks in the holiness start giggling about
      something when they are on the platform and the congregation thinks it is
      "holy laughter" and they begin laughing too.


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Bonnie :-) <BRowley3@...>
      To: wesleyantheology@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 2:12:18 PM
      Subject: Re: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?

      Ken, by 'get in the flesh', do you mean they are faking it? Surely you don't
      think that would be exclusive to any denomination?

      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --
      From: "Ken H." <khawn@yahoo. com>
      Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:55 PM
      To: <wesleyantheology@ yahoogroups. com>
      Subject: Re: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?

      As a former Nazarene I acknowledge your interpretation of the Nazarene
      stance. This doesn't mean that I agree with it. Trying to put their own
      spin on what scripture teaches about the "Tongues" experience doesn't mean
      that they are correct. If unknown tongues were nothing more than a foreign
      language then I doubt that the New Testament writers would have said so much
      about it. It is always seen as a supernatural experience. On the day of
      Pentecost the disciples were seen as being "drunk". This would not be the
      case if they were just speaking a foreign language. They were speaking in
      an Angelic language and the Holy Spirit was giving a personal interpretation
      to each listener.

      Sadly, the tongues experience has been often abused. I have seen people get
      into the flesh on several occasions. Any gift can be abused. I remember in
      the Church of the Nazarene seeing people get in the flesh when the Spirit
      was moving. It just happens.


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: hunthome1 <hunthome1@yahoo. com>
      To: wesleyantheology@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:14:21 AM
      Subject: [Wesleyan Theology] Re: against speaking in tounges?

      Pardon me,
      I would like to interject here with this discussion. I do not speak
      from the Wesleyan church but from the Church of the Nazarene that is
      of the same holiness tradition.
      "Speaking in Tongues" is not considered, by the Church of the
      Nazarene, as a consistent interpretation of scripture in 1 Cor. There
      is no interpretation of the Corinthians passage as an understanding
      of an angelic or a prayer language prior to April 14, 1906 when a
      phenomenon happened at the Azusa Street Revival that had no
      explanation. Reflection on the utterings and the faintings that
      happened was later tied to the manifestation of the indwelling of the
      Holy Spirit. This then grew throughout the Pentecostal movement.
      (Pentecostal of coarse implying a current presence and work of the HS
      as in the Acts account of Pentecost.) The Church of the Nazarene was
      founded as the Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene but dropped the
      Pentecostal aspect because of the perceived fanatical understanding
      of Pentecostalism of the day.
      Now, in the 100th year of the founding of the Church of the Nazarene,
      there is no more support in the denomination with "Speaking in
      Tongues" than there was then. The simple reason is that the greek
      word "Glossa" which is simply a distinct language according to The
      KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon (Found on crosswalk.com) In each
      instance of this word found in scripture it is in a multicultural
      setting where many languages would be the norm. It is used as an
      unknown language in Corinthians in a manner that is understood
      as "foreign language" where the gift bestowed was to effectively
      speak in a language understood by the hearers but not originally to
      the speaker. Interpretations are needed if the speaker does not speak
      the language of the audience. It is useless for any speaker, despite
      the wealth of the words, to speak if the listeners cannot understand.
      Nowhere is a prayer or angelic language understood in the NT, with
      the exception of 1 Cor 13:1 which is understood to be more
      hypothetical stating in essence; "Even if I could speak the language
      of angels, as if I had something to tell them, but had not love, I
      would be nothing." This does not imply that Paul ever claimed to
      speak an angelic language but that, after explaining that he was a
      linguistic master and efficient in many languages who would find
      there way into the region, all of the giftedness would be useless if
      not bridled with Love.
      For this reason pastors who claim to have a Holy Spirit indwelling
      that manifests itself in Tongues or other "pentecostalisms" they are
      offered to keep it under wraps or to go elsewhere.

      --- In wesleyantheology@ yahoogroups. com, James Bauers <yaakov653@. ..>
      > Shalom Sister Bonnie and fellow sojourners,
      > I think that one needs to understand that Paul wrote about tongues
      are for those who are not saved, so when a 'tongue' is spoken it
      could be that it was/is only spoken in the 'tongue' of that one un-
      saved. If you get my meaning. I also understand that it include the
      use of a private prayer language, even though there are those in the
      Wesleyan realm that may have a hard time grasping that! I can also
      relate how the Lord can give the "gift" of a language to one on the
      mission field. My cousin Paul and his wife Betty went to be Pilgrim-
      Holiness missionaries in South Africa in the mid 1950's; my cousin
      Paul within days of arrival had 'picked up' the local language of the
      tribe that they were going to work with. It's a beautiful gifting as
      it flows truly and as ordered from the Lord!
      > James/Yaakov Bauers
      > "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who
      does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth."
      2 Timothy 2:15 (NASB/95)
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: Bonnie :-) <BRowley3@.. .>
      > To: wesleyantheology@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:37:46 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Wesleyan Theology] against speaking in tounges?
      > Doesn't the bible say speaking in tongues should not be done unless
      > interpreter is there?
      > I haven't heard anything at my church implying it be of the devil.
      But if we
      > can't understand it, it is useless to those hearing it unless an
      > is there.
      > Joyonya,
      > Bonnie
      > a Nazarene
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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