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Thinking of adding DC option....

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  • jasper1911
    I ve been using a Lincoln 225 Tombstone stick welder for a number of years and it s gotten me by pretty well so far. I ve been thinking of adding a DC
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2011
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      I've been using a Lincoln 225 "Tombstone" stick welder for a number
      of years and it's gotten me by pretty well so far. I've been thinking of
      adding a DC option in my welding, but just not sure if the benefits will
      outweigh the cost of a new or used welder with AC and DC.

      The choices I've come to are a new or used Lincoln AC/DC stick welder
      (220vac)....or a new or used MIG with just straight AC and flux-core
      wire. I tinker in blacksmithing and for making tools that need to be
      able to take a beating, the Lincoln AC stick I have has done fine. But,
      I'm considering the upgrade for use in some of my projects that I sell
      and the AC just doesn't seem to lend a good look for what I consider
      blacksmith-made. I usually forge-weld, rivet or use collars to make
      connections, but I'm just thinking of other options that I might be able
      to use to make things go a bit faster and easier on me.

      The main problem that I have is when I worked in law enforcement, I
      was shot in the face, the bullet (22 LR) bounced off my upper jaw on the
      opposite side and went into my brainstem. I'm losing alot of the grip in
      my left hand and along with the welder, I'm seriously searching for a
      power-hammer to make things easier as my grip just isn't enough to keep
      the work from turning. I'm figuring a power-hammer might help out as I
      can hold the piece in the tongs with both hands and keep it in the
      position I need. If things keep going the way they are, my blacksmith
      tinkering days are probably over, but I just can't stand the thought of
      that.

      So, my questions are.....go to a machine with DC for more control, less
      spatter or go to a MIG that I can use (with or w/o gas), but still hide
      the weld easily. I've read so much information that I don't know which
      is better as they all seem to claim to be the best choice.

      Sorry for the long rant, but I'd appreciate any suggestions I can get.
    • Kincy Harris
      Why not cure the problem  - your lack of grip? Put a post between the forge and the anvil. Mount a counterbalanced  articulating arm on the post so that it
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 3, 2011
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        Why not cure the problem  - your lack of grip? Put a post between the forge and the anvil. Mount a counterbalanced  articulating arm on the post so that it rotates around the post from the forge to the anvil and back. Think of it as the post is your body and the articulating arm is your arm. Where the hand would be mount an air operated clamp that is set to be always clamped except when you step on a foot valve, it loosens to the degree that you step on the valve. Use tongs, vicegrips, or whatever to manipulate the workpiece when you step on the foot valve and loosen the clamp, let off the foot valve and it clamps back up. Use the counterbalances as handles to guide the arm and apply up/down pressure. Make as many different quick change clamps as you want.

        Think of it as your new and improved arm. I'm sure you can work out the details. That automatic hammer could really speed up your work. Getting a new welder to add to your capabilities is a good idea, but it is not going to cure your real problem. My 2cents.
      • jasper1911
        Almost like a giant set of tongs like they used to use in the steel mills, mounted on a bearing that rotates and adds the downward pressure when I need it.
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 5, 2011
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          Almost like a giant set of tongs like they used to use in the steel mills, mounted on a bearing that rotates and adds the downward pressure when I need it. Nice idea



          --- In welding_group@yahoogroups.com, Kincy Harris <kidharris@...> wrote:
          >
          > Why not cure the problem  - your lack of grip? Put a post between the forge and the anvil. Mount a counterbalanced  articulating arm on the post so that it rotates around the post from the forge to the anvil and back. Think of it as the post is your body and the articulating arm is your arm. Where the hand would be mount an air operated clamp that is set to be always clamped except when you step on a foot valve, it loosens to the degree that you step on the valve. Use tongs, vicegrips, or whatever to manipulate the workpiece when you step on the foot valve and loosen the clamp, let off the foot valve and it clamps back up. Use the counterbalances as handles to guide the arm and apply up/down pressure. Make as many different quick change clamps as you want.
          >
          > Think of it as your new and improved arm. I'm sure you can work out the details. That automatic hammer could really speed up your work. Getting a new welder to add to your capabilities is a good idea, but it is not going to cure your real problem. My 2cents.
          >
        • jasper1911
          The biggest problem I have is the actual gripping part. Say a piece of 3/8 round stock that I m trying to flatten or square on the anvil. My grip just doesn t
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 5, 2011
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            The biggest problem I have is the actual gripping part. Say a piece of 3/8" round stock that I'm trying to flatten or square on the anvil. My grip just doesn't keep it from turning and I end up leaving hammer marks in the wrong place or ruining the whole dang thing. Still thinking though....Thanks all for the ideas. I appreciate the input very much

            J



            --- In welding_group@yahoogroups.com, Kincy Harris <kidharris@...> wrote:
            >
            > Why not cure the problem  - your lack of grip? Put a post between the forge and the anvil. Mount a counterbalanced  articulating arm on the post so that it rotates around the post from the forge to the anvil and back. Think of it as the post is your body and the articulating arm is your arm. Where the hand would be mount an air operated clamp that is set to be always clamped except when you step on a foot valve, it loosens to the degree that you step on the valve. Use tongs, vicegrips, or whatever to manipulate the workpiece when you step on the foot valve and loosen the clamp, let off the foot valve and it clamps back up. Use the counterbalances as handles to guide the arm and apply up/down pressure. Make as many different quick change clamps as you want.
            >
            > Think of it as your new and improved arm. I'm sure you can work out the details. That automatic hammer could really speed up your work. Getting a new welder to add to your capabilities is a good idea, but it is not going to cure your real problem. My 2cents.
            >
          • Cindy
            If the stock you are working isn t too long, try simply using a pair of vice grip pliers to grip the bar and you hold the pliers. Locking pliers won t let the
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 6, 2011
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              If the stock you are working isn't too long, try simply using a pair of vice grip pliers to grip the bar and you hold the pliers.  Locking pliers won't let the work slip like tongs can and give a positive feel in your hand of the position of the work.  It may be easier to grip a larger object like the pliers than a smaller piece of bar, and the shock may be dampened somewhat by using the pliers.

                I don't have gripping problems like you describe but I have to really concentrate to keep the hammer hitting exactly where I want it or I'll get essentially the same results that you describe below. 

              I posted you a fairly long reply to your email about my experiences w/ various welding machines in response to your first post.  Did you get that?

              James


              On 9/5/2011 4:04 PM, jasper1911 wrote:
               

              The biggest problem I have is the actual gripping part. Say a piece of 3/8" round stock that I'm trying to flatten or square on the anvil. My grip just doesn't keep it from turning and I end up leaving hammer marks in the wrong place or ruining the whole dang thing. Still thinking though....Thanks all for the ideas. I appreciate the input very much

              J

              --- In welding_group@yahoogroups.com, Kincy Harris <kidharris@...> wrote:
              >
              > Why not cure the problem  - your lack of grip? Put a post between the forge and the anvil. Mount a counterbalanced  articulating arm on the post so that it rotates around the post from the forge to the anvil and back.. Think of it as the post is your body and the articulating arm is your arm.. Where the hand would be mount an air operated clamp that is set to be always clamped except when you step on a foot valve, it loosens to the degree that you step on the valve. Use tongs, vicegrips, or whatever to manipulate the workpiece when you step on the foot valve and loosen the clamp, let off the foot valve and it clamps back up. Use the counterbalances as handles to guide the arm and apply up/down pressure. Make as many different quick change clamps as you want.
              >
              > Think of it as your new and improved arm. I'm sure you can work out the details. That automatic hammer could really speed up your work. Getting a new welder to add to your capabilities is a good idea, but it is not going to cure your real problem. My 2cents.
              >


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            • J S
              Not yet, but I just signed on and got your email. I did try the vise-grips yesterday and it helped quite a bit, so I ll be using those more I guess. Definately
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 6, 2011
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                Not yet, but I just signed on and got your email. I did try the vise-grips yesterday and it helped quite a bit, so I'll be using those more I guess. Definately different from using my tongs.
                 As far as the welding, I try to forge weld as much as I can, but some of the projects either have to have a rivet, a coller or a tack from the welder. I've noticed that 7014 rods on AC doesn't splatter too bad and a wire wheel in the grinder usually takes off most of the crud. If it's too bad or a bigger tack, I usually try to wrap it with rod or a collar. Thanks for the info James. I really appreciate it.
                Greg

                From: Cindy <jallcorn@...>
                To: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 6:35 AM
                Subject: Re: [welding_group] Re: Thinking of adding DC option....

                 
                If the stock you are working isn't too long, try simply using a pair of vice grip pliers to grip the bar and you hold the pliers.  Locking pliers won't let the work slip like tongs can and give a positive feel in your hand of the position of the work.  It may be easier to grip a larger object like the pliers than a smaller piece of bar, and the shock may be dampened somewhat by using the pliers.

                  I don't have gripping problems like you describe but I have to really concentrate to keep the hammer hitting exactly where I want it or I'll get essentially the same results that you describe below. 

                I posted you a fairly long reply to your email about my experiences w/ various welding machines in response to your first post.  Did you get that?

                James


                On 9/5/2011 4:04 PM, jasper1911 wrote:
                 
                The biggest problem I have is the actual gripping part. Say a piece of 3/8" round stock that I'm trying to flatten or square on the anvil. My grip just doesn't keep it from turning and I end up leaving hammer marks in the wrong place or ruining the whole dang thing. Still thinking though....Thanks all for the ideas. I appreciate the input very much

                J

                --- In welding_group@yahoogroups.com, Kincy Harris <kidharris@...> wrote:
                >
                > Why not cure the problem  - your lack of grip? Put a post between the forge and the anvil. Mount a counterbalanced  articulating arm on the post so that it rotates around the post from the forge to the anvil and back.. Think of it as the post is your body and the articulating arm is your arm.. Where the hand would be mount an air operated clamp that is set to be always clamped except when you step on a foot valve, it loosens to the degree that you step on the valve. Use tongs, vicegrips, or whatever to manipulate the workpiece when you step on the foot valve and loosen the clamp, let off the foot valve and it clamps back up. Use the counterbalances as handles to guide the arm and apply up/down pressure. Make as many different quick change clamps as you want.
                >
                > Think of it as your new and improved arm. I'm sure you can work out the details. That automatic hammer could really speed up your work. Getting a new welder to add to your capabilities is a good idea, but it is not going to cure your real problem. My 2cents.
                >

                No virus found in this message.
                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3869 - Release Date: 08/31/11


              • Cindy
                OK, I m going to go out on a limb here and suggest you get a copy of Hobart s Pocket Welding Guide. Doesn t have to be new although the new one will likely
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 6, 2011
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                  OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest you get a copy of Hobart's Pocket Welding Guide.  Doesn't have to be new although the new one will likely cover more stuff.  Mine is 40 years old and I still use it some.  They may cost more now, I think I paid $1.50 or so for mine.  Use it for electrode information.  It will come in handy. 

                  You say you are using 7014... that's a good rod but works only in flat and horizontal position and won't do well at all in vertical up/down or overhead.  If I have to use a stick rod (and I'm good w/ stick) I either use a 6011 or 6010 or a 7018.  Reason is that the 6011 (that's an AC/DC rod and is comparable to the 6010 which is DC only) is a good general purpose/all position rod and tolerates lots of poor fitup and rust, paint, crud, etc.  The 7018 is a low hydrogen that I use (or maybe an 8018, 9018, etc., depending on the job) that has ha little higher tensile strength and will handle low alloy metals like oil field drill rod, bulldozers, etc.  I've got a couple boxes of 7014 but only use them for fabrication of mild steel that is clean.  Yes, they do clean up quickly whereas the 6011 makes a mess as does the 7018 and its cousins.

                  If you get yourself a MIG welder, you will have the choices of flux core wire or bare wire, then you have to decide if you want to use straight CO2, 75/25 Argon/CO2 or 92/8 Argon/CO2 or one of the trimixes.  Likely you will be limited to what your welding supplier carries.  CO2 spatters more but is cheaper and penetrates more, much like the 6011.  92/8 spatters less than 75/25 but you give up a bit of penetration.  However, the last few bottles I've been using 92/8 because I can turn my MIG's up hot w/ high wire speed and get them to spray transfer.  the lower Argon 75% and CO2 simply won't spray.  Flux core will spray if you have a machine that is heavy enough.  Spray takes lots of volts.

                  If you are welding in a shop and trying to make any kind of production, you need to try a MIG w/ 92/8 gas, likely .035 ER70S6 grade bare wire.  It won't take long till you will put your stick welder in the back of the shop.  It will make your work look better and take less time to do it.  You may even cut down on the forge welding.  I'm not really good at forge welding so I stick to the MIG.  Some things I use TIG, occasionally  I'll use stick, but only as a last resort.  Of course, stick will be with us always because it is so versatile in rod selection/application for hard facing, cast iron and all sorts of specialty applications.

                  My project for the day was drifting 1 inch square holes in 1-1/2" flat bar for a railing project.  They look nice when completed but they really take time.

                  Good luck.  Oh, where are you located?  I'm in Northeast Texas.

                  James

                  On 9/6/2011 10:45 AM, J S wrote:  
                  Not yet, but I just signed on and got your email. I did try the vise-grips yesterday and it helped quite a bit, so I'll be using those more I guess. Definately different from using my tongs.
                   As far as the welding, I try to forge weld as much as I can, but some of the projects either have to have a rivet, a coller or a tack from the welder. I've noticed that 7014 rods on AC doesn't splatter too bad and a wire wheel in the grinder usually takes off most of the crud. If it's too bad or a bigger tack, I usually try to wrap it with rod or a collar. Thanks for the info James. I really appreciate it.
                  Greg

                  From: Cindy <jallcorn@...>
                  To: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 6:35 AM
                  Subject: Re: [welding_group] Re: Thinking of adding DC option....

                   
                  If the stock you are working isn't too long, try simply using a pair of vice grip pliers to grip the bar and you hold the pliers.  Locking pliers won't let the work slip like tongs can and give a positive feel in your hand of the position of the work.  It may be easier to grip a larger object like the pliers than a smaller piece of bar, and the shock may be dampened somewhat by using the pliers.

                    I don't have gripping problems like you describe but I have to really concentrate to keep the hammer hitting exactly where I want it or I'll get essentially the same results that you describe below. 

                  I posted you a fairly long reply to your email about my experiences w/ various welding machines in response to your first post.  Did you get that?

                  James


                  On 9/5/2011 4:04 PM, jasper1911 wrote:
                   
                  The biggest problem I have is the actual gripping part. Say a piece of 3/8" round stock that I'm trying to flatten or square on the anvil. My grip just doesn't keep it from turning and I end up leaving hammer marks in the wrong place or ruining the whole dang thing. Still thinking though....Thanks all for the ideas. I appreciate the input very much

                  J

                  --- In welding_group@yahoogroups.com, Kincy Harris <kidharris@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Why not cure the problem  - your lack of grip? Put a post between the forge and the anvil. Mount a counterbalanced  articulating arm on the post so that it rotates around the post from the forge to the anvil and back.. Think of it as the post is your body and the articulating arm is your arm.. Where the hand would be mount an air operated clamp that is set to be always clamped except when you step on a foot valve, it loosens to the degree that you step on the valve. Use tongs, vicegrips, or whatever to manipulate the workpiece when you step on the foot valve and loosen the clamp, let off the foot valve and it clamps back up. Use the counterbalances as handles to guide the arm and apply up/down pressure. Make as many different quick change clamps as you want.
                  >
                  > Think of it as your new and improved arm. I'm sure you can work out the details. That automatic hammer could really speed up your work. Getting a new welder to add to your capabilities is a good idea, but it is not going to cure your real problem. My 2cents.
                  >

                  No virus found in this message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3869 - Release Date: 08/31/11



                  No virus found in this message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3869 - Release Date: 08/31/11

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