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Re: [welding_group] welding aluminium

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  • Berkay Örs
    ARGON=) ________________________________ From: Rafael Vidal To: welding_group@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 7:31:55 AM
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 11, 2011
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      ARGON=)

      From: Rafael Vidal <cuttlekid@...>
      To: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 7:31:55 AM
      Subject: Re: [welding_group] welding aluminium

       

      Argon!

      --- On Thu, 3/10/11, Susan Johnson <thewatcher99uk@...> wrote:

      From: Susan Johnson <thewatcher99uk@...>
      Subject: [welding_group] welding aluminium
      To: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 6:53 PM

       

      I have a fairly large Mig welder using argoshield gas, I am hoping to build an aluminium boat, what gas would I require for this use,
      thanks
      Peter



    • Susan Johnson
      Many thanks folks, just need to get a bit of practice before I tackle the main project. Peter
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 12, 2011
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        Many thanks folks, just need to get a bit of practice before I tackle the main project.
        Peter
      • Robert
        Susan Argon is your freind. It is much cheaper than helium in the required purity to be usefull. Once you have argon you need to realize that running a spool
        Message 3 of 9 , May 30 6:38 AM
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          Susan Argon is your freind. It is much cheaper than helium in the required purity to be usefull. Once you have argon you need to realize that running a spool gun is a hot and fast process. Hesitation will cause all kinds of weld issues so fit up and cleaning are extremely important for a successful weld session. Once you get the hang of it nothing is more fun, but getting ther sometimes can be a little frustrating. So dont give up and take notes of what makes sucessful welds and what does not. Those notes will be invaluable in assisting you to resolve issues we all come across from time to time.
          Bob

          --- In welding_group@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Johnson" <thewatcher99uk@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a fairly large Mig welder using argoshield gas, I am hoping to build an aluminium boat, what gas would I require for this use,
          > thanks
          > Peter
          >
        • metlcre8tor
          Susan, If you are doing any carbon steel welding with that unit, it likely will have Steel Mix (75/25 Argon/CO2) gas in the tank. For Aluminum you will need
          Message 4 of 9 , May 31 5:18 PM
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            Susan,

            If you are doing any carbon steel welding with that unit, it likely will have "Steel Mix" (75/25 Argon/CO2) gas in the tank. For Aluminum you will need pure (100%) Argon and a spool gun. A mix of Argon and Helium is also sometime used for welding aluminum with TIG, but I have never used that mix with a MIG.

            You will probably be welding some thin aluminum. I strongly suggest you practice on disposable pieces before tackling anything you want to keep.
            When it aluminum welding, it takes LOTS of practice to master. Also be sure to thoroughly clean the oxide layer off the area to be welded using a stainless steel wire wheel used ONLY for that purpose. Be sure to clean any place you stop and start welding too since the oxide layer forms immediately during cooling.

            One last tip; be sure you know the grade of aluminum you want yo weld. Not all grades are weldable.

            Good luck,
            Bill
          • Rafael Vidal
            Its a little more tricky then just MIG welding, Susan!  Wire welding (MIG) aluminum requires some additional accessories that will make your life, efforts
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 2, 2011
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              Its a little more tricky then just MIG welding, Susan!  Wire welding (MIG) aluminum requires some additional accessories that will make your life, efforts and time more productive in this endeavor, trust me. First, go to your local welding shop with some information in hand. That big welder you have, get some information off of it like make and model. Then go and tell your welding shop salesman what you intend to do with it. Most folks think MIG welding is like magic and the little wire just magically appears out of the nozzle. Well, with steel welding its a little straight forward but aluminum has its eccentricities. Steel wire for ease of operation is usually coated in copper, thats so the wire won't arc and stick inside the coil it travels through to get to the nozzle. With aluminum you can't coat the wire due to purity issues so most aluminum MIG rigs have teflon coated coils that help keep the aluminum wire from also arcing and sticking. Another thing is that when aluminum wire starts arcing, burning, melting and welding, because of its great thermal transmittance, it actually allows heat to travel up the wire and towards the welder as time goes by, as such the wire swells and increases in diameter. A good rule of thumb is to run one size larger in orifice tip size relative to the wire size. Boy or should I say girl, I could go on for hours. My main advice is to absorb as much advice from any and all sources available to you, locally, in books, and professionally if anyone is willing to give you the time. Its a right of passage, enjoy the ride! Good Luck!    

              --- On Mon, 5/30/11, Robert <rbeckett@...> wrote:

              From: Robert <rbeckett@...>
              Subject: [welding_group] Re: welding aluminium
              To: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 8:38 AM

               

              Susan Argon is your freind. It is much cheaper than helium in the required purity to be usefull. Once you have argon you need to realize that running a spool gun is a hot and fast process. Hesitation will cause all kinds of weld issues so fit up and cleaning are extremely important for a successful weld session. Once you get the hang of it nothing is more fun, but getting ther sometimes can be a little frustrating. So dont give up and take notes of what makes sucessful welds and what does not. Those notes will be invaluable in assisting you to resolve issues we all come across from time to time.
              Bob

              --- In welding_group@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Johnson" <thewatcher99uk@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have a fairly large Mig welder using argoshield gas, I am hoping to build an aluminium boat, what gas would I require for this use,
              > thanks
              > Peter
              >

            • tripletrophy1997
              You will need a separate liner for the cord/hose, made of plastic, or a spool gun. The spool gun is probably easier to use, but heavier and bulkier. The
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 5, 2011
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                You will need a separate liner for the cord/hose, made of plastic, or a spool gun. The spool gun is probably easier to use, but heavier and bulkier. The separate liner means you feed the wire through the cable assembly. Lighter to hold, but more prone to bird nesting in the feed rollers. I have found different grades feed differently, and even different lots of the same grade. I had one spool of 4356 that I couldn't do more than 3 welds in a row without it either burning back to the nozzle or jamming. I was beginning to think I had forgotten everything. Then as soon as I changed rolls it was like magic, no problems. You may have to play a bit, and wire speeds will be higher than for steel. With .035 wire I use a .045 tip. They may sell tips for aluminum, but they are basically just 10 thou over sized.

                Carbon Dioxide does not work. I got a cylinder mislabeled, and it was messy. Burnt everything, and lots of black soot deposited. Argon works well, or an Argon / Helium mix, but that probably runs more money, and is good for heavier stuff.

                Cleanliness is critical. More than critical. I clean everything with acetone, then brush with a stainless steel brush that never touches regular steel or anything else. Only brush in one direction. I have tried one of the cleaning fluids available, but only use it if I can't brush, as I have had great success with brushing.

                I would recommend starting on 1/8" metal if you have a 175/180 Amp machine. I find it more forgiving than 1/16" and easier to heat up than 3/16". Then work your way down in thickness. Anything 1/8" and over I tend to bevel my edges to give more penetration and bite to the weld.

                Did I mention cleanliness is critical?

                Larry

                --- In welding_group@yahoogroups.com, Rafael Vidal <cuttlekid@...> wrote:
                >
                > Its a little more tricky then just MIG welding, Susan!  Wire welding (MIG) aluminum requires some additional accessories that will make your life, efforts and time more productive in this endeavor, trust me. First, go to your local welding shop with some information in hand. That big welder you have, get some information off of it like make and model. Then go and tell your welding shop salesman what you intend to do with it. Most folks think MIG welding is like magic and the little wire just magically appears out of the nozzle. Well, with steel welding its a little straight forward but aluminum has its eccentricities. Steel wire for ease of operation is usually coated in copper, thats so the wire won't arc and stick inside the coil it travels through to get to the nozzle. With aluminum you can't coat the wire due to purity issues so most aluminum MIG rigs have teflon coated coils that help keep the aluminum wire from also arcing and sticking. Another
                > thing is that when aluminum wire starts arcing, burning, melting and welding, because of its great thermal transmittance, it actually allows heat to travel up the wire and towards the welder as time goes by, as such the wire swells and increases in diameter. A good rule of thumb is to run one size larger in orifice tip size relative to the wire size. Boy or should I say girl, I could go on for hours. My main advice is to absorb as much advice from any and all sources available to you, locally, in books, and professionally if anyone is willing to give you the time. Its a right of passage, enjoy the ride! Good Luck!    
                >
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