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Adding HF to a scratch start tig

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  • Don McDonald
    So I have been wondering about adding HF to one of these cheap little stick/tig welders that are everywhere. Other than spending 5 times the cost of the welder
    Message 1 of 8 , May 2, 2007
      So I have been wondering about adding HF to one of these cheap little
      stick/tig welders that are everywhere. Other than spending 5 times
      the cost of the welder on a separate freq box, I am curious about a
      spark starter used for pulse jets. Lets say we buy one of these from
      Ebay ( 190107145002 - go to www.ebay.com and enter this number in the
      search box). I want to modify a little scratch start welder (
      120114359283 ). If I hook one side of the pulse jet starter to the
      torch plug, and the other to a separate ground clamp on the work, I
      will run 100 amps through the little HF unit, so I need a diode to
      keep the welding current from frying the HF box. My collection of
      little 1 amp diodes won't do ( can I put 100 of them in parallel?),
      so where does one get a moose of a diode that can handle welding
      currents? (I am used to 5v and 1 amp in building little electronic
      board projects. This high power stuff is a mystery to me).

      Assuming that we have appropriate protection for the HF box, we could
      hold the HF unit in one hand, put the torch up to the work, hit the
      HF button, and maybe, start the arc. So if this worked, the next step
      would be to rig up a timer board so that the HF box is enabled when
      you select the Tig setting, but turns off after 5 seconds when it
      detects welding current after the arc starts.

      Any hope that this would work? Any ideas for a timer board?

      DonM
    • Bill Rubenstein
      Don: I think that you have just addressed a number of the elements which make for the major price difference between the HF or equivalent units and a real TIG
      Message 2 of 8 , May 2, 2007
        Don:

        I think that you have just addressed a number of the elements which make
        for the major price difference between the HF or equivalent units and a
        real TIG welder. The manufacturers had to solve all those problems and
        then some, and have a pile of high-current parts to boot.

        I've TIG welded with both a cheap power source and a real welder. Ain't
        no comparison.

        Bill

        Don McDonald wrote:
        >
        > So I have been wondering about adding HF to one of these cheap little
        > stick/tig welders that are everywhere. Other than spending 5 times
        > the cost of the welder on a separate freq box, I am curious about a
        > spark starter used for pulse jets. Lets say we buy one of these from
        > Ebay ( 190107145002 - go to www.ebay.com and enter this number in the
        > search box). I want to modify a little scratch start welder (
        > 120114359283 ). If I hook one side of the pulse jet starter to the
        > torch plug, and the other to a separate ground clamp on the work, I
        > will run 100 amps through the little HF unit, so I need a diode to
        > keep the welding current from frying the HF box. My collection of
        > little 1 amp diodes won't do ( can I put 100 of them in parallel?),
        > so where does one get a moose of a diode that can handle welding
        > currents? (I am used to 5v and 1 amp in building little electronic
        > board projects. This high power stuff is a mystery to me).
        >
        > Assuming that we have appropriate protection for the HF box, we could
        > hold the HF unit in one hand, put the torch up to the work, hit the
        > HF button, and maybe, start the arc. So if this worked, the next step
        > would be to rig up a timer board so that the HF box is enabled when
        > you select the Tig setting, but turns off after 5 seconds when it
        > detects welding current after the arc starts.
        >
        > Any hope that this would work? Any ideas for a timer board?
        >
        > DonM
        >
        >
      • Jerry Smith
        I lived thru the HF welders a while ago, they aren t that good. If you want a real welder, one that Tim The Tool Man Taylor would be proud of, get a Lincoln
        Message 3 of 8 , May 2, 2007
          I lived thru the HF welders a while ago, they aren't
          that good. If you want a real welder, one that Tim
          "The Tool Man" Taylor would be proud of, get a Lincoln
          PT 275 and then get a 15Kw or larger generator, that a
          real welder for a round the home. :) I would say the
          PT 375, except most people don't have three phase
          power in their homes and I have seen a three phase
          geenrator that would around the house.

          Jerry


          --- Bill Rubenstein <wsr2@...> wrote:

          > Don:
          >
          > I think that you have just addressed a number of the
          > elements which make
          > for the major price difference between the HF or
          > equivalent units and a
          > real TIG welder. The manufacturers had to solve all
          > those problems and
          > then some, and have a pile of high-current parts to
          > boot.
          >
          > I've TIG welded with both a cheap power source and a
          > real welder. Ain't
          > no comparison.
          >
          > Bill
          >
          > Don McDonald wrote:
          > >
          > > So I have been wondering about adding HF to one of
          > these cheap little
          > > stick/tig welders that are everywhere. Other than
          > spending 5 times
          > > the cost of the welder on a separate freq box, I
          > am curious about a
          > > spark starter used for pulse jets. Lets say we buy
          > one of these from
          > > Ebay ( 190107145002 - go to www.ebay.com and enter
          > this number in the
          > > search box). I want to modify a little scratch
          > start welder (
          > > 120114359283 ). If I hook one side of the pulse
          > jet starter to the
          > > torch plug, and the other to a separate ground
          > clamp on the work, I
          > > will run 100 amps through the little HF unit, so I
          > need a diode to
          > > keep the welding current from frying the HF box.
          > My collection of
          > > little 1 amp diodes won't do ( can I put 100 of
          > them in parallel?),
          > > so where does one get a moose of a diode that can
          > handle welding
          > > currents? (I am used to 5v and 1 amp in building
          > little electronic
          > > board projects. This high power stuff is a mystery
          > to me).
          > >
          > > Assuming that we have appropriate protection for
          > the HF box, we could
          > > hold the HF unit in one hand, put the torch up to
          > the work, hit the
          > > HF button, and maybe, start the arc. So if this
          > worked, the next step
          > > would be to rig up a timer board so that the HF
          > box is enabled when
          > > you select the Tig setting, but turns off after 5
          > seconds when it
          > > detects welding current after the arc starts.
          > >
          > > Any hope that this would work? Any ideas for a
          > timer board?
          > >
          > > DonM
          > >
          > >
          >
        • David G. LeVine
          ... Try
          Message 4 of 8 , May 2, 2007
            At 11:10 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
            >My collection of
            >little 1 amp diodes won't do ( can I put 100 of them in parallel?),
            >so where does one get a moose of a diode that can handle welding
            >currents?

            Try
            http://www.mouser.com/search/Refine.aspx?Ne=1447464+254016+688640+1000000191+2445351&N=1323038+4294753364+4294752498+4294752620+4294752445+4294752480+4294752476+4294752474+4294752472+4294752444+4294752464+4294752325+4294752461+4294752467+2445351+0&Ntt=*diode*&Ntx=mode%20matchall&Ns=P_SField&Mkw=diode&Msb=0&Ntk=Mouser_Wildcards
            (tiny url version is http://tinyurl.com/2tax3g )


            David G. LeVine
            Nashua, NH 03060
          • Don McDonald
            Cool. Forward bias of 600v and 350 amp capacity. $37.00. Next question, will HF pass through a diode? And thinking about it, wouldn t HF run back into the
            Message 5 of 8 , May 2, 2007
              Cool. Forward bias of 600v and 350 amp capacity. $37.00. Next question, will
              HF pass through a diode? And thinking about it, wouldn't HF run back into
              the welder through the inverter and back to the work ground? I wonder what
              that would do.

              DonM

              -----Original Message-----
              From: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:welding_group@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David G. LeVine
              Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:51 PM
              To: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [welding_group] Adding HF to a scratch start tig


              At 11:10 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
              >My collection of
              >little 1 amp diodes won't do ( can I put 100 of them in parallel?),
              >so where does one get a moose of a diode that can handle welding
              >currents?

              Try
              http://www.mouser.com/search/Refine.aspx?Ne=1447464+254016+688640+1000000191
              +2445351&N=1323038+4294753364+4294752498+4294752620+4294752445+4294752480+42
              94752476+4294752474+4294752472+4294752444+4294752464+4294752325+4294752461+4
              294752467+2445351+0&Ntt=*diode*&Ntx=mode%20matchall&Ns=P_SField&Mkw=diode&Ms
              b=0&Ntk=Mouser_Wildcards
              (tiny url version is http://tinyurl.com/2tax3g )


              David G. LeVine
              Nashua, NH 03060




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            • David G. LeVine
              ... Nope, you need a choke in the high current line and a capacitor in the HF line. Ideally the HF will be blocked by the choke and the DC will be blocked by
              Message 6 of 8 , May 2, 2007
                At 06:11 PM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                >Cool. Forward bias of 600v and 350 amp capacity. $37.00. Next question, will
                >HF pass through a diode? And thinking about it, wouldn't HF run back into
                >the welder through the inverter and back to the work ground? I wonder what
                >that would do.

                Nope, you need a choke in the high current line and a capacitor in
                the HF line. Ideally the HF will be blocked by the choke and the DC
                will be blocked by the capacitor.

                David G. LeVine
                Nashua, NH 03060
              • Bill
                Don donmcdonald@... wrote: So I have been wondering about adding HF to one of these cheap little stick/tig welders that are everywhere. ... Don; Here s a CC
                Message 7 of 8 , May 3, 2007
                  Don donmcdonald@... wrote:> So I have been wondering about adding HF
                  to one of these cheap little stick/tig welders that are everywhere.
                  ----------------------------------------------
                  Don; Here's a CC from a friend of mine who's built many TIG welders:
                  ("No, it will fry your welder if you do it like that. the Hf box is
                  pretty easy to construct works just like a tesla-coil but coupled to
                  about 8 turns of weldercable instead of 500 in a secondary (the big
                  column in the tesla coil), Ill do a drawing if I get some time;
                  Bruce"). Bill 2WB-Memphis
                • Don McDonald
                  Hmm, I hope he does the drawing. I have built Tesla coils, easy to do and great to make your hair stand straight up, or fire up a light bulb from 5 feet away (
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 3, 2007
                    Hmm, I hope he does the drawing. I have built Tesla coils, easy to do and
                    great to make your hair stand straight up, or fire up a light bulb from 5
                    feet away ( which was Tesla's whole purpose, broadcasting electrical energy.
                    He almost did it before the aliens took him away :-)

                    He has built Tig welders? Does he take orders?

                    DonM


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:welding_group@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bill
                    Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 5:43 PM
                    To: welding_group@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [welding_group] Re: Adding HF to a scratch start tig


                    Don donmcdonald@... wrote:> So I have been wondering about adding HF
                    to one of these cheap little stick/tig welders that are everywhere.
                    ----------------------------------------------
                    Don; Here's a CC from a friend of mine who's built many TIG welders:
                    ("No, it will fry your welder if you do it like that. the Hf box is
                    pretty easy to construct works just like a tesla-coil but coupled to
                    about 8 turns of weldercable instead of 500 in a secondary (the big
                    column in the tesla coil), Ill do a drawing if I get some time;
                    Bruce"). Bill 2WB-Memphis




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