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We got a real picture of a real ghost. ???

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  • Jay
    Okay, I don t know if everyone has read my St Nazianz posts... but either way, make sure you check this out. This is a picture of the front building that is
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 1 9:53 AM
      Okay, I don't know if everyone has read my "St Nazianz" posts...
      but either way, make sure you check this out.

      This is a picture of the front building that is right alongside the
      road you take to get to the infamous JFK Prep. Taken around
      midnight (guess) on this last Friday.

      ftp://www.jayratkowski.com/shiznit/pics/misc/st_nazianz/1.jpg

      Now take note of this... I circled the area to pay attention to:

      ftp://www.jayratkowski.com/shiznit/pics/misc/st_nazianz/hmm.jpg

      I found this the night we got back (took the pic with my digital
      camera). At first I just thought it was spooky as hell. I came up
      with all the logical ideas, but none of them could be proved at all.
      We went back the next day during the early afternoon, that area is
      completely clear. There is the adress carved near the top of that
      circle, but you can't see it in the pic. There is no tree or any
      object inbetween where the picture was taken, and that circle.
      Nothing.

      After looking at it a lot last night, my friend and I both decided (on
      our own) that it looks like a monk.

      What is everyone's thoughts? This picture gives me the chills
      everytime I look at it. I really wasn't that scared while we were
      there, but ever since, I've been having horrible times sleeping,
      and lots of nightmares. I never get nightmares, haven't since I
      was like 7 years old.

      Jay
    • Crystal Odenkirk
      I m sorry, but it just looks like a typical jpeg artifact to me. You ll notice that you also have them above the circled area, far above and slightly left of
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1 10:20 AM
        I'm sorry, but it just looks like a typical jpeg artifact to me. You'll
        notice that you also have them above the circled area, far above and
        slightly left of the circled area, over the door, and over the right-most
        window. I deal with pictures coming off digital cameras everyday (I'm a
        graphic artist at a newspaper) and I see stuff like that all the time,
        especially in pictures where there's not a lot of contrast or where there's
        one good spot of reflection (the windows just to the right of your circled
        area). You've got both conditions here.

        crys

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jay <jemdnaman@...>

        >Now take note of this... I circled the area to pay attention to:
        >ftp://www.jayratkowski.com/shiznit/pics/misc/st_nazianz/hmm.jpg
      • Richard D. Hendricks
        I don t see anything either; shadows, I think. I adjusted the photos for contrast & brightness, and cropped them to make them smaller. I couldn t get the
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1 10:31 AM
          I don't see anything either; shadows, I think.

          I adjusted the photos for contrast & brightness, and cropped them to
          make them smaller. I couldn't get the Yahoo photo upload utility to
          work correctly, so I put links to the edited photos on my site.

          This is the edited 1.jpg photo:

          http://www.weird-wi.com/1-ed.jpg

          This is the edited hmm.jpg photo:

          http://www.weird-wi.com/hmm-ed.jpg

          The photos look grainy because I don't have the best editing tools, but
          I think whatever you thought may have been there blurs into the
          background. Leastwise I don't see any dimension to it. Note that the
          black slash that forms the top of the monk's cowl is visible in both
          pictures. I think if you look at the building during the day, you'll
          note the same discoloration.

          When you're working from mostly dark photos you can conjure up just
          about anything. Anyone else have a thought?

          RDH



          Crystal Odenkirk wrote:
          >
          > I'm sorry, but it just looks like a typical jpeg artifact to me.
          > You'll
          > notice that you also have them above the circled area, far above and
          > slightly left of the circled area, over the door, and over the
          > right-most
          > window. I deal with pictures coming off digital cameras everyday (I'm
          > a
          > graphic artist at a newspaper) and I see stuff like that all the time,
          > especially in pictures where there's not a lot of contrast or where
          > there's
          > one good spot of reflection (the windows just to the right of your
          > circled
          > area). You've got both conditions here.
          >
          > crys
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Jay <jemdnaman@...>
          >
          > >Now take note of this... I circled the area to pay attention to:
          > >ftp://www.jayratkowski.com/shiznit/pics/misc/st_nazianz/hmm.jpg
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          > [Image]
          >
          >
          >
          > Escape the Mundane!
          > Read Weird Wisconsin!
          > http://www.weird-wi.com/
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Jay
          Your theory seems plausable, but the other parts of the image you mentioned are obviously caused by the flash and the one in the circled area is NOTHING CLOSE
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 1 11:26 PM
            Your theory seems plausable, but the other parts of the image
            you mentioned are obviously caused by the flash and the one in
            the circled area is NOTHING CLOSE to that type of distortion.
            The closest I can percieve it being to an image problem would
            be a possible smuge during developing the film, however
            seeing as I used a digital camera with rather high resolution,
            that is not a possibility.

            --- In weirdwi@y..., "Crystal Odenkirk" <crys@m...> wrote:
            > I'm sorry, but it just looks like a typical jpeg artifact to me. You'll
            > notice that you also have them above the circled area, far
            above and
            > slightly left of the circled area, over the door, and over the
            right-most
            > window. I deal with pictures coming off digital cameras
            everyday (I'm a
            > graphic artist at a newspaper) and I see stuff like that all the
            time,
            > especially in pictures where there's not a lot of contrast or
            where there's
            > one good spot of reflection (the windows just to the right of your
            circled
            > area). You've got both conditions here.
            >
            > crys
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Jay <jemdnaman@y...>
            >
            > >Now take note of this... I circled the area to pay attention to:
            >
            >ftp://www.jayratkowski.com/shiznit/pics/misc/st_nazianz/hmm.jp
            g
          • Crystal Odenkirk
            ... What do you mean, nothing close? They re exactly the same type of artifact. Compressed images do that. Especially dark pictures with low contrast and a
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 2 8:16 AM
              >Your theory seems plausable, but the other parts of the image
              >you mentioned are obviously caused by the flash and the one in
              >the circled area is NOTHING CLOSE to that type of distortion.
              >The closest I can percieve it being to an image problem would
              >be a possible smuge during developing the film, however
              >seeing as I used a digital camera with rather high resolution,
              >that is not a possibility.

              What do you mean, nothing close? They're exactly the same type of artifact.
              Compressed images do that. Especially dark pictures with low contrast and a
              flash. It doesn't matter what resolution you used, it's what compression you
              used and how much light was reflected from the windows back onto the lens.
              You get flash haze and then the compression has the effect of sharpening the
              colors slightly but also of creating extra edges, which in a low contrast
              picture looks like some kind of haze or light.

              I also don't see the figure you're talking about. I can see a sort of blobby
              ancient-near-east-style Venus in the haze, but that's my brain imposing
              recognizable pattern on chaos.

              I'm not saying you didn't see something while you were out there. I'm saying
              I don't see anything in the photo that I don't deal with at work. When I go
              back to work (I'm home sick today) I'll see if I can find an example of one
              that was so bad I couldn't fix it and it got used because it had to be, but
              generally I don't save the pictures that are not quickly fixable (and I
              don't save the ones that aren't used). I see it mostly in car photos (for
              dealership ads) taken on a rainy day. The flash reflects back into the lens
              from the chrome and the compression gives the haze just enough definition to
              be really visible--it's especially visible if you have just a touch of
              moisture on the lens. It doesn't have to be enough to visibly distort the
              picture when you look through the viewfinder, but it _is_ enough to create
              odd light effects.

              crys
              digital artist/designer
            • Jay
              Go into that picture... circle (in photoshop, correll draw, microsoft paint, whatever) the images you see that are exactly the same to what I have circled
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 2 9:11 AM
                Go into that picture... circle (in photoshop, correll draw, microsoft
                paint, whatever) the images you see that are "exactly the same"
                to what I have circled and post it on this site or email it to me so I
                can see what you're talking about because it is making no sense
                to me.

                I am not talking about an image reflected off a window, I am
                speaking of something that shows up with only natural reflection
                of light against a dull background.

                --- In weirdwi@y..., "Crystal Odenkirk" <crys@m...> wrote:
                > >Your theory seems plausable, but the other parts of the
                image
                > >you mentioned are obviously caused by the flash and the one
                in
                > >the circled area is NOTHING CLOSE to that type of distortion.
                > >The closest I can percieve it being to an image problem
                would
                > >be a possible smuge during developing the film, however
                > >seeing as I used a digital camera with rather high resolution,
                > >that is not a possibility.
                >
                > What do you mean, nothing close? They're exactly the same
                type of artifact.
                > Compressed images do that. Especially dark pictures with low
                contrast and a
                > flash. It doesn't matter what resolution you used, it's what
                compression you
                > used and how much light was reflected from the windows back
                onto the lens.
                > You get flash haze and then the compression has the effect of
                sharpening the
                > colors slightly but also of creating extra edges, which in a low
                contrast
                > picture looks like some kind of haze or light.
                >
                > I also don't see the figure you're talking about. I can see a sort
                of blobby
                > ancient-near-east-style Venus in the haze, but that's my brain
                imposing
                > recognizable pattern on chaos.
                >
                > I'm not saying you didn't see something while you were out
                there. I'm saying
                > I don't see anything in the photo that I don't deal with at work.
                When I go
                > back to work (I'm home sick today) I'll see if I can find an
                example of one
                > that was so bad I couldn't fix it and it got used because it had to
                be, but
                > generally I don't save the pictures that are not quickly fixable
                (and I
                > don't save the ones that aren't used). I see it mostly in car
                photos (for
                > dealership ads) taken on a rainy day. The flash reflects back
                into the lens
                > from the chrome and the compression gives the haze just
                enough definition to
                > be really visible--it's especially visible if you have just a touch of
                > moisture on the lens. It doesn't have to be enough to visibly
                distort the
                > picture when you look through the viewfinder, but it _is_
                enough to create
                > odd light effects.
                >
                > crys
                > digital artist/designer
              • Jay
                Oh, I also should note that the building I took pictures of, all the windows are completely or near completely broken. So there really is no glass or other
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 2 9:14 AM
                  Oh, I also should note that the building I took pictures of, all the
                  windows are completely or near completely broken. So there
                  really is no glass or other highly reflective surface to cause
                  reflection or distortion.

                  --- In weirdwi@y..., "Jay" <jemdnaman@y...> wrote:
                  > Go into that picture... circle (in photoshop, correll draw,
                  microsoft
                  > paint, whatever) the images you see that are "exactly the same"
                  > to what I have circled and post it on this site or email it to me
                  so I
                  > can see what you're talking about because it is making no
                  sense
                  > to me.
                  >
                  > I am not talking about an image reflected off a window, I am
                  > speaking of something that shows up with only natural
                  reflection
                  > of light against a dull background.
                  >
                  > --- In weirdwi@y..., "Crystal Odenkirk" <crys@m...> wrote:
                  > > >Your theory seems plausable, but the other parts of the
                  > image
                  > > >you mentioned are obviously caused by the flash and the
                  one
                  > in
                  > > >the circled area is NOTHING CLOSE to that type of
                  distortion.
                  > > >The closest I can percieve it being to an image problem
                  > would
                  > > >be a possible smuge during developing the film, however
                  > > >seeing as I used a digital camera with rather high
                  resolution,
                  > > >that is not a possibility.
                  > >
                  > > What do you mean, nothing close? They're exactly the same
                  > type of artifact.
                  > > Compressed images do that. Especially dark pictures with
                  low
                  > contrast and a
                  > > flash. It doesn't matter what resolution you used, it's what
                  > compression you
                  > > used and how much light was reflected from the windows
                  back
                  > onto the lens.
                  > > You get flash haze and then the compression has the effect
                  of
                  > sharpening the
                  > > colors slightly but also of creating extra edges, which in a low
                  > contrast
                  > > picture looks like some kind of haze or light.
                  > >
                  > > I also don't see the figure you're talking about. I can see a
                  sort
                  > of blobby
                  > > ancient-near-east-style Venus in the haze, but that's my brain
                  > imposing
                  > > recognizable pattern on chaos.
                  > >
                  > > I'm not saying you didn't see something while you were out
                  > there. I'm saying
                  > > I don't see anything in the photo that I don't deal with at work.
                  > When I go
                  > > back to work (I'm home sick today) I'll see if I can find an
                  > example of one
                  > > that was so bad I couldn't fix it and it got used because it had
                  to
                  > be, but
                  > > generally I don't save the pictures that are not quickly fixable
                  > (and I
                  > > don't save the ones that aren't used). I see it mostly in car
                  > photos (for
                  > > dealership ads) taken on a rainy day. The flash reflects back
                  > into the lens
                  > > from the chrome and the compression gives the haze just
                  > enough definition to
                  > > be really visible--it's especially visible if you have just a touch
                  of
                  > > moisture on the lens. It doesn't have to be enough to visibly
                  > distort the
                  > > picture when you look through the viewfinder, but it _is_
                  > enough to create
                  > > odd light effects.
                  > >
                  > > crys
                  > > digital artist/designer
                • Crystal Odenkirk
                  http://www.dragonrosecastle.net/images/1.jpg Especially of note is that the haze extends up beyond the front of the building (above your original circle) and
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 2 9:56 AM
                    http://www.dragonrosecastle.net/images/1.jpg

                    Especially of note is that the haze extends up beyond the front of the
                    building (above your original circle) and the light spot further to the
                    right and up, both of which were cropped out of hmm.jpg but were visible in
                    1.jpg. Notice how they _seem_ defined but are just reflected light.

                    I drew arrows to what I would guess are only two of the likely reflective
                    points that caused the flash haze.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Jay <jemdnaman@...>
                    To: weirdwi@yahoogroups.com <weirdwi@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:11 AM
                    Subject: Re: We got a real picture of a real ghost. ???


                    >Go into that picture... circle (in photoshop, correll draw, microsoft
                    >paint, whatever) the images you see that are "exactly the same"
                    >to what I have circled and post it on this site or email it to me so I
                    >can see what you're talking about because it is making no sense >to me.
                    >
                    >I am not talking about an image reflected off a window, I am
                    >speaking of something that shows up with only natural reflection
                    >of light against a dull background.
                  • Crystal Odenkirk
                    Except for the windows just to the right and just to the right and above your circle, which are obviously still there. crys ... From: Jay
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 2 9:57 AM
                      Except for the windows just to the right and just to the right and above
                      your circle, which are obviously still there.

                      crys
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Jay <jemdnaman@...>
                      To: weirdwi@yahoogroups.com <weirdwi@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:14 AM
                      Subject: Re: We got a real picture of a real ghost. ???


                      >Oh, I also should note that the building I took pictures of, all the
                      >windows are completely or near completely broken. So there
                      >really is no glass or other highly reflective surface to cause
                      >reflection or distortion.
                      >
                      >--- In weirdwi@y..., "Jay" <jemdnaman@y...> wrote:
                      >> Go into that picture... circle (in photoshop, correll draw,
                      >microsoft
                      >> paint, whatever) the images you see that are "exactly the same"
                      >> to what I have circled and post it on this site or email it to me
                      >so I
                      >> can see what you're talking about because it is making no
                      >sense
                      >> to me.
                      >>
                      >> I am not talking about an image reflected off a window, I am
                      >> speaking of something that shows up with only natural
                      >reflection
                      >> of light against a dull background.
                      >>
                      >> --- In weirdwi@y..., "Crystal Odenkirk" <crys@m...> wrote:
                      >> > >Your theory seems plausable, but the other parts of the
                      >> image
                      >> > >you mentioned are obviously caused by the flash and the
                      >one
                      >> in
                      >> > >the circled area is NOTHING CLOSE to that type of
                      >distortion.
                      >> > >The closest I can percieve it being to an image problem
                      >> would
                      >> > >be a possible smuge during developing the film, however
                      >> > >seeing as I used a digital camera with rather high
                      >resolution,
                      >> > >that is not a possibility.
                      >> >
                      >> > What do you mean, nothing close? They're exactly the same
                      >> type of artifact.
                      >> > Compressed images do that. Especially dark pictures with
                      >low
                      >> contrast and a
                      >> > flash. It doesn't matter what resolution you used, it's what
                      >> compression you
                      >> > used and how much light was reflected from the windows
                      >back
                      >> onto the lens.
                      >> > You get flash haze and then the compression has the effect
                      >of
                      >> sharpening the
                      >> > colors slightly but also of creating extra edges, which in a low
                      >> contrast
                      >> > picture looks like some kind of haze or light.
                      >> >
                      >> > I also don't see the figure you're talking about. I can see a
                      >sort
                      >> of blobby
                      >> > ancient-near-east-style Venus in the haze, but that's my brain
                      >> imposing
                      >> > recognizable pattern on chaos.
                      >> >
                      >> > I'm not saying you didn't see something while you were out
                      >> there. I'm saying
                      >> > I don't see anything in the photo that I don't deal with at work.
                      >> When I go
                      >> > back to work (I'm home sick today) I'll see if I can find an
                      >> example of one
                      >> > that was so bad I couldn't fix it and it got used because it had
                      >to
                      >> be, but
                      >> > generally I don't save the pictures that are not quickly fixable
                      >> (and I
                      >> > don't save the ones that aren't used). I see it mostly in car
                      >> photos (for
                      >> > dealership ads) taken on a rainy day. The flash reflects back
                      >> into the lens
                      >> > from the chrome and the compression gives the haze just
                      >> enough definition to
                      >> > be really visible--it's especially visible if you have just a touch
                      >of
                      >> > moisture on the lens. It doesn't have to be enough to visibly
                      >> distort the
                      >> > picture when you look through the viewfinder, but it _is_
                      >> enough to create
                      >> > odd light effects.
                      >> >
                      >> > crys
                      >> > digital artist/designer
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Escape the Mundane!
                      >Read Weird Wisconsin!
                      >http://www.weird-wi.com/
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • hartmanns
                      Not being an expert on these things,i wonder if there is an internet archive showing images with the various artifacts,blemishes and other errors on photos ...
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 3 6:01 AM
                        Not being an expert on these things,i wonder if there is an internet
                        archive showing images with the various artifacts,blemishes and other errors
                        on photos
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Jay" <jemdnaman@...>
                        To: <weirdwi@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:26 AM
                        Subject: Re: We got a real picture of a real ghost. ???


                        > Your theory seems plausable, but the other parts of the image
                        > you mentioned are obviously caused by the flash and the one in
                        > the circled area is NOTHING CLOSE to that type of distortion.
                        > The closest I can percieve it being to an image problem would
                        > be a possible smuge during developing the film, however
                        > seeing as I used a digital camera with rather high resolution,
                        > that is not a possibility.
                        >
                        > --- In weirdwi@y..., "Crystal Odenkirk" <crys@m...> wrote:
                        > > I'm sorry, but it just looks like a typical jpeg artifact to me. You'll
                        > > notice that you also have them above the circled area, far
                        > above and
                        > > slightly left of the circled area, over the door, and over the
                        > right-most
                        > > window. I deal with pictures coming off digital cameras
                        > everyday (I'm a
                        > > graphic artist at a newspaper) and I see stuff like that all the
                        > time,
                        > > especially in pictures where there's not a lot of contrast or
                        > where there's
                        > > one good spot of reflection (the windows just to the right of your
                        > circled
                        > > area). You've got both conditions here.
                        > >
                        > > crys
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Jay <jemdnaman@y...>
                        > >
                        > > >Now take note of this... I circled the area to pay attention to:
                        > >
                        > >ftp://www.jayratkowski.com/shiznit/pics/misc/st_nazianz/hmm.jp
                        > g
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Escape the Mundane!
                        > Read Weird Wisconsin!
                        > http://www.weird-wi.com/
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                      • Jay
                        Late response... Thanks for posting that. I hate to give up an arguement unless I have proof and I really didn t notice all those other spots before. ... of
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 9 9:34 AM
                          Late response...

                          Thanks for posting that. I hate to give up an arguement unless I
                          have proof and I really didn't notice all those other spots before.
                          :-)

                          --- In weirdwi@y..., "Crystal Odenkirk" <crys@m...> wrote:
                          > http://www.dragonrosecastle.net/images/1.jpg
                          >
                          > Especially of note is that the haze extends up beyond the front
                          of the
                          > building (above your original circle) and the light spot further to
                          the
                          > right and up, both of which were cropped out of hmm.jpg but
                          were visible in
                          > 1.jpg. Notice how they _seem_ defined but are just reflected
                          light.
                          >
                          > I drew arrows to what I would guess are only two of the likely
                          reflective
                          > points that caused the flash haze.
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Jay <jemdnaman@y...>
                          > To: weirdwi@y... <weirdwi@y...>
                          > Date: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:11 AM
                          > Subject: Re: We got a real picture of a real ghost. ???
                          >
                          >
                          > >Go into that picture... circle (in photoshop, correll draw,
                          microsoft
                          > >paint, whatever) the images you see that are "exactly the
                          same"
                          > >to what I have circled and post it on this site or email it to me
                          so I
                          > >can see what you're talking about because it is making no
                          sense >to me.
                          > >
                          > >I am not talking about an image reflected off a window, I am
                          > >speaking of something that shows up with only natural
                          reflection
                          > >of light against a dull background.
                        • Crystal Odenkirk
                          Yeah, that s what I figured. I probably wouldn t have noticed them either if I didn t deal with digital photos so much. :) They re hard to see on
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 9 3:15 PM
                            Yeah, that's what I figured. <smiles> I probably wouldn't have noticed them
                            either if I didn't deal with digital photos so much. :) They're hard to see
                            on screen, but if you tried to print them (traditional web offset, I mean,
                            not desktop printer), there's enough variation that the spots probably would
                            have appeared in the printed version...

                            crys

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Jay <jemdnaman@...>
                            To: weirdwi@yahoogroups.com <weirdwi@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:34 AM
                            Subject: Re: We got a real picture of a real ghost. ???


                            >Late response...
                            >
                            >Thanks for posting that. I hate to give up an arguement unless I
                            >have proof and I really didn't notice all those other spots before.
                            >:-)
                            >
                            >--- In weirdwi@y..., "Crystal Odenkirk" <crys@m...> wrote:
                            >> http://www.dragonrosecastle.net/images/1.jpg
                            >>
                            >> Especially of note is that the haze extends up beyond the front
                            >of the
                            >> building (above your original circle) and the light spot further to
                            >the
                            >> right and up, both of which were cropped out of hmm.jpg but
                            >were visible in
                            >> 1.jpg. Notice how they _seem_ defined but are just reflected
                            >light.
                            >>
                            >> I drew arrows to what I would guess are only two of the likely
                            >reflective
                            >> points that caused the flash haze.
                            >>
                            >> -----Original Message-----
                            >> From: Jay <jemdnaman@y...>
                            >> To: weirdwi@y... <weirdwi@y...>
                            >> Date: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:11 AM
                            >> Subject: Re: We got a real picture of a real ghost. ???
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> >Go into that picture... circle (in photoshop, correll draw,
                            >microsoft
                            >> >paint, whatever) the images you see that are "exactly the
                            >same"
                            >> >to what I have circled and post it on this site or email it to me
                            >so I
                            >> >can see what you're talking about because it is making no
                            >sense >to me.
                            >> >
                            >> >I am not talking about an image reflected off a window, I am
                            >> >speaking of something that shows up with only natural
                            >reflection
                            >> >of light against a dull background.
                            >
                            >
                            >Escape the Mundane!
                            >Read Weird Wisconsin!
                            >http://www.weird-wi.com/
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
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