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RE: [webloggerusergroup] Weblogs == Personal Web Publishing Communities?

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  • Mahesh Shantaram
    ... From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@userland.com] Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 12:16 AM To: webloggerusergroup@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 17, 2001
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
      Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 12:16 AM
      To: webloggerusergroup@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [webloggerusergroup] Weblogs == Personal Web Publishing
      Communities?

      > I had a domain for a while that we just
      > let go: unclesclub.com.
      > I wonder how many people in the Weblog
      > World think of themselves as Uncles,
      > wicked or otherwise.

      Now I'm confused. Does "uncle" mean anything other than "parent's brother"?

      Cross-cultural Did You Know of the day:
      In India, children often address elderly people (who are not related to
      them) as Uncle. This stems from the pledge (
      http://www.tamilnadueducation.com/pledge.htm ) that we used to recite in
      school every Friday: "All Indians are my brothers and sisters". By this
      philosophy, even strangers are looked upon as being a brother or sister to
      one's father or mother.

      Remember this on your next visit to India when the little ones call you
      "Uncle!" :-)

      And I'm sure www.unclesclub.co.in is not taken yet.


      ---
      Mahesh Shantaram
      http://www.techrose.org/
    • Dan Lyke
      ... Strictly, no. Culturally, male friends close to the family will sometimes be referred to as uncle , cause they do lots of the same things uncles do: Be
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 17, 2001
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        Mahesh Shantaram writes:
        > Now I'm confused. Does "uncle" mean anything other than "parent's brother"?

        Strictly, no. Culturally, male friends close to the family will
        sometimes be referred to as "uncle", 'cause they do lots of the same
        things uncles do: Be someone who cares about the family, and
        participates, but because he's not a parent, doesn't have the same
        economic constraints or need to maintain authority, can have a
        completely different relationship to the kids.

        For instance: I've got a friend who's got two adolescent boys. She's a
        70s feminist who's coming up against the harsh reality of male
        puberty, but also a single mom who's run fairly ragged.

        So I'm willing to be much more patient when I help with homework
        ('cause I only see them once a week or so). And I don't have kids (and
        don't plan on having kids), so I don't have to pretend that I find
        kids cute or lovable, which means that we have a relationship dynamic
        that ends up being more between equals. I can give them gifts that are
        expensive, or perhaps things they really wanted rather than things
        they should have.

        When she's doing her 70s feminist "pornography is evil" thing I can't
        exactly give 'em porn, but I can say "here, read some Nadine Strossen
        or some Carol Queen, see what other people think about how that
        influences culture", or "Hey, have you seen cleansheets.com?" to point
        out that there are more variations to sex than just the image that
        their mother hates so strongly.

        And whene their mom is talking about the importance of studying hard
        and applying themselves to education, and promulgating all those lies
        about their own academic career that parents have to lay on, I'm
        saying "yeah, I graduated in the top 60% of my high school class and
        dropped out of college" and "my years as a professional whitewater
        guide were a lot of fun".

        And where parents can't have conversations with their kids about sex,
        or push the "you're too young" line (which may be true, but won't stop
        them), I can say "it's none of my business, but I had a few terrifying
        experiences before I figured out that water based lube is a necessity
        with condoms". Let's face it: Nobody wants to hear that from their
        mom. Probably not even their dad.

        Everyone I know refers to this as "playing uncle".

        > Cross-cultural Did You Know of the day:
        > In India, children often address elderly people (who are not related
        > to them) as Uncle.

        Probably a similar thing.

        Dan
      • jm
        Hi, I was wondering what was your policy about linking to articles that are not free (e.g. on WSJ, The Economist or Salon Premium) or that requires a cookie
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 19, 2001
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          Hi,

          I was wondering what was your 'policy' about linking to articles that are
          not free (e.g. on WSJ, The Economist or Salon Premium) or that requires a
          cookie / free registration (NYTimes) ?

          Also, do you think that the "End of Free" will have an influence on the
          collection of web links and therefore on the content of your online
          publishing?


          Cheers,
          --
          jm
          Weblogue: (from english Web: network and latin logos:talk) opinion wishing
          to be heard and amplified.
        • Mahesh Shantaram
          ... From: jm [mailto:giem@free.fr] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:54 PM To: webloggerusergroup@yahoogroups.com Subject: [webloggerusergroup] Public
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 19, 2001
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            -----Original Message-----
            From: jm [mailto:giem@...]
            Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:54 PM
            To: webloggerusergroup@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [webloggerusergroup] Public Accessible link policy

            Hi jm,

            > I was wondering what was your 'policy' about linking
            > to articles that are not free (e.g. on WSJ, The
            > Economist or Salon Premium) or that requires a cookie
            > / free registration (NYTimes) ?

            From a weblogging/journalists point of view, I like what Rebecca Blood does.
            She mentions the the username (rebeccas_pocket) and password (I think it's
            "blood") of a dummy account beside an NYT link. That was very helpful,
            because earlier on, I wouldn't click on NYT links. The thought of a sign-up
            process would deter me.

            > Also, do you think that the "End of Free" will have an
            > influence on the collection of web links and therefore
            > on the content of your online publishing?

            It's a coincidence that you should ask this today. India's most respected
            news media group (in the class of Time Magazine) decided to open their
            online publication to subscribers only. That's bad news for me as I've
            linked heavily to TheNewspaperToday.com from my journal.

            I believe that as the Web goes form free to paid, user experience will take
            a kick due to widespread linkrot. I've written on this topic before:
            http://msram.livejournal.com/day/2001/04/04


            ---
            Mahesh Shantaram
            http://www.techrose.org/
          • Madhu Menon
            ... All well and good, till the day NYTimes.com decides that it will restict a user name to only one session or IP. For NY Times articles, simply change the
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 19, 2001
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              At 10:07 PM 11/19/2001, Mahesh Shantaram opined:
              > From a weblogging/journalists point of view, I like what Rebecca Blood does.
              >She mentions the the username (rebeccas_pocket) and password (I think it's
              >"blood") of a dummy account beside an NYT link. That was very helpful,
              >because earlier on, I wouldn't click on NYT links. The thought of a sign-up
              >process would deter me.

              All well and good, till the day NYTimes.com decides that it will restict a
              user name to only one session or IP.

              For NY Times articles, simply change the "www" in the URL to "partners" and
              you'll get in without any login process. For example:
              http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/19/international/asia/19MILI.html

              This may not be the place for it, but I've always given false information
              for any such registration process. I was born in 1970 in the Falkland
              Islands, I'm in the lowest income group, I have absolutely no hobbies,
              never buy online, and my ZIP code is 90210.

              All false, of course.
              But they probably don't have any targeted advertising for Falkland Islands :)

              Do many of you do that too?


              >I believe that as the Web goes form free to paid, user experience will take
              >a kick due to widespread linkrot. I've written on this topic before:

              We'll always have Google cache :P

              Madhu

              <<< * >>>
              Madhu Menon
              User Experience Consultant
              e-mail: webguru@...

              Weblog: http://madman.weblogs.com
            • Dan Lyke
              ... I link to things I find interesting. If my readers can t figure out how to fill out a free registration box, or don t want to pay for the same publications
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 19, 2001
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                jm writes:
                > I was wondering what was your 'policy' about linking to articles
                > that are not free (e.g. on WSJ, The Economist or Salon Premium) or
                > that requires a cookie / free registration (NYTimes) ?

                I link to things I find interesting. If my readers can't figure out
                how to fill out a free registration box, or don't want to pay for the
                same publications I pay for, that's their call.

                If there's not a teaser at the site for non-paying members, I'll
                probably go out of my way to describe why I think a particular
                document is worthwhile, but so far Salon provides most of the meat of
                the article, in fact enough that if you care you can go find the rest
                of the facts in the article with Google, that it hasn't bothered me.

                I should probably subscribe to the Economist, but I'm trying to cut
                back on my mandatory reading.

                Dan
              • Brian Sobolak
                Hello Madhu, Monday, November 19, 2001, 9:04:03 AM, you wrote: MM This may not be the place for it, but I ve always given false information MM for any such
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 20, 2001
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                  Hello Madhu,

                  Monday, November 19, 2001, 9:04:03 AM, you wrote:

                  MM> This may not be the place for it, but I've always given false information
                  MM> for any such registration process. I was born in 1970 in the Falkland
                  MM> Islands, I'm in the lowest income group, I have absolutely no hobbies,
                  MM> never buy online, and my ZIP code is 90210.

                  MM> All false, of course.
                  MM> But they probably don't have any targeted advertising for Falkland Islands :)

                  MM> Do many of you do that too?

                  Indeed. But I don't discriminate against just websites. I also do
                  this on grocery store frequent buyer clubs, ordering pizza, and
                  magazine subscriptions. billg has received a few Safeway Club Cards
                  from me, and most people still give you a funny look when you give a
                  very assumed name when ordering a sandwich (tuna on rye
                  for...Batman?)

                  It can be a useful technique for more than just identity hiding. I
                  would give a fake title at most of the technical conferences I've
                  attended, and then proceeded to see how they sell my name based upon
                  the mail I receive with the fake title.

                  brian

                  --
                  Got work? http://www.planetshwoop.com/resume/
                  This is how I think: http://www.planetshwoop.com/blog/
                  Brian Sobolak sobolak@...
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