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How do you measure Web 2.0?

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  • Eric Peterson
    Folks, I blogged last night and early this AM about something I ve been kicking around for too long in a vaccum, a proposal for measuring Web 2.0 widgets and
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 10 9:27 AM
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      Folks,

      I blogged last night and early this AM about something I've been
      kicking around for too long in a vaccum, a proposal for measuring "Web
      2.0" widgets and applications that sites are increasingly embedding
      into the visitor experience. Things like Google or Yahoo! maps,
      calendars, tag clouds and the such ... applications that must
      certainly have some impact on the visitor experience but which for the
      most part are unmeasurable (at least in your existing analytics
      application which, in my humble opinion would be the right place for
      the measurement to occur.)

      Anyway, the blog posts are here:

      http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog/2006/08/we-want-web-20-measurement-standards.html
      http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog/2006/08/more-thoughts-about-measuring-web-20.html

      I welcome your thoughts and comments via my weblog, this group or email.

      Eric T. Peterson
      Author, Moderator, Visual Sciences Employee
      http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog
    • Jason Egan
      Eric, We are currently measuring our rich Internet apps (Web 2.0, whatever...). It s not the measuring of the apps that is the issue, it is what to measure. In
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 10 11:08 AM
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        Eric,

        We are currently measuring our rich Internet apps (Web 2.0, whatever...).
        It's not the measuring of the apps that is the issue, it is what to measure.
        In our case, we are an advertising driven business model, where advertisers
        are used to purchasing based on page views and unique visitors. However, Web
        2.0 apps and sites are better measured by interaction. Of course,
        interaction is different for every application (apples to oranges when
        pitching against a competitor, not that it ever really was apples to
        apples). It's my hope that this will allow us to stress the importance of
        visits and other metrics over page views and unique visitors. The other
        challenge is that I am sure that none of our ad sales staff has a clue of
        the implications of Web 2.0 on sales.

        I see ad sales as a detriment to implementing Web 2.0 on much of our sites
        (and media sites in general). For example, on our site FoodNetwork.com, one
        of the most visited page types, are recipes. There are tens of thousands of
        pages here, with millions of page views per month. If we were to develop a
        Web 2.0 app that would make them all easily available (without a page
        refresh), where you could do cool things like drag and drop recipes into
        your recipe box to save, the ad sales department would have our heads. Such
        a change would result in a reduction of millions of page views that they
        couldn't sell in the traditional way. Even though this might result in more
        return visits and better user loyalty, through a better user interface. A
        change of this type would also throw this site out of line with Nielsen/Net
        Ratings, Hitwise, etc, making the site appear less relevant vs. our
        competitors.

        --
        Jason A. Egan
        Senior Analyst
        Scripps Networks
        egan.jason@...

        On 8/10/06, Eric Peterson <eric.peterson@...> wrote:
        >
        > Folks,
        >
        > I blogged last night and early this AM about something I've been
        > kicking around for too long in a vaccum, a proposal for measuring "Web
        > 2.0" widgets and applications that sites are increasingly embedding
        > into the visitor experience. Things like Google or Yahoo! maps,
        > calendars, tag clouds and the such ... applications that must
        > certainly have some impact on the visitor experience but which for the
        > most part are unmeasurable (at least in your existing analytics
        > application which, in my humble opinion would be the right place for
        > the measurement to occur.)
        >
        > Anyway, the blog posts are here:
        >
        >
        > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog/2006/08/we-want-web-20-measurement-standards.html
        >
        > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog/2006/08/more-thoughts-about-measuring-web-20.html
        >
        > I welcome your thoughts and comments via my weblog, this group or email.
        >
        > Eric T. Peterson
        > Author, Moderator, Visual Sciences Employee
        > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chris Harrington
        In my ajax applications, I add calls to the client-side Urchin interface to get Google Analytics to track events which I feel are relevant to my GA. My AJAX
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 10 12:18 PM
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          In my ajax applications, I add calls to the client-side Urchin interface to get Google Analytics to track events which I feel are relevant to my GA. My AJAX apps use SOAP and so for me the web 2.0 tracking semantics are interfaces, methods, and parameters. This information is logged server-side into a SQL instrumentation database. So far I've only used it for debugging, but it is certainly a rich source for analytics.

          Chris Harrington
        • brewsterbarclay
          Dear Eric, Rufus Evison and I have been thinking about these issues for a while. Our thoughts had been going down two directions for AJAX type applications.
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 11 7:07 AM
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            Dear Eric,
            Rufus Evison and I have been thinking about these issues for a
            while. Our thoughts had been going down two directions for AJAX
            type applications.

            One: The industry must come up with a metric for a "Meaningful
            Interactive Event" which could replace the page view. This has all
            the problems of definition and getting the industry to agree.

            Two: Use the number of seconds that the application being used by
            the browser is in focus as the metric. Therefore, any ad served
            when the application was in focus would have a metric for the number
            of seconds viewed.

            If we indeed need to track from one application to another, we agree
            that there would have to be standard interfaces or handshakes
            between sites so that data could be exchanged. This is something we
            have already done in other contexts for client sites.

            All the best,

            Brewster

            Brewster F. Barclay
            CEO
            Clickstream Technologies PLC
            --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Peterson"
            <eric.peterson@...> wrote:
            >
            > Folks,
            >
            > I blogged last night and early this AM about something I've been
            > kicking around for too long in a vaccum, a proposal for
            measuring "Web
            > 2.0" widgets and applications that sites are increasingly embedding
            > into the visitor experience. Things like Google or Yahoo! maps,
            > calendars, tag clouds and the such ... applications that must
            > certainly have some impact on the visitor experience but which for
            the
            > most part are unmeasurable (at least in your existing analytics
            > application which, in my humble opinion would be the right place
            for
            > the measurement to occur.)
            >
            > Anyway, the blog posts are here:
            >
            > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog/2006/08/we-want-web-
            20-measurement-standards.html
            > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog/2006/08/more-
            thoughts-about-measuring-web-20.html
            >
            > I welcome your thoughts and comments via my weblog, this group or
            email.
            >
            > Eric T. Peterson
            > Author, Moderator, Visual Sciences Employee
            > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog
            >
          • Sam Michel
            Hello All... Apologies if this question has been asked a squillion times before. I ve tried searching the archives but unsurprisingly all the keywords are
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
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              Hello All...

              Apologies if this question has been asked a squillion times before. I've
              tried searching the archives but unsurprisingly all the keywords are rather
              common in the threads.

              I was wondering if someone had come across this issue before. We run Urchin
              5 on our server for a while now. I thought it might be handy to dabble with
              Google Analytics (GA) and after a fairly tortuous wait for an invitation we
              got up and running. Now I have both the GA and Urchin tags in the pages.

              Urchin is fine and dandy and recording data like it always did. GA on the
              other hand is registering a handful of visits each week. When I say handful,
              I mean three or four, versus the thousands registered by Urchin. The code's
              appearing on the pages (see http://www.chinwag.com) but no-show on the stats
              front.

              Anyone else had this issue? Any pointers would be much appreciated. I'm
              fully expecting that I've done something daft and preparing a nice shiny
              piece of wall to bang against my head in that event.

              Have a good weekend.

              Toodle Pip

              Sam
              ---------------------------------------------------------------
              Sam Michel e: sam@...
              t: 0870 730 7313 f: 0870 730 7312
              Chinwag - http://www.chinwag.com
              ---------------------------------------------------------------
              http://jobs.chinwag.com
              work in new media - hundreds of jobs

              Win a Nintendo DS & Super Mario Bros:
              http://www.chinwag.com/ac/c.cgi?cid=111&mid=340

              New: Chinwag Jobs Blog
              http://jobs.chinwag.com/blog
              ---------------------------------------------------------------
            • Mike Chipman
              You re referencing __utm.js and urchin.js on each page -- I ll spare the technical explanation and will just say that it s bad, mmkay? Try the following: 1)
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
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                You're referencing __utm.js and urchin.js on each page -- I'll spare the
                technical explanation and will just say that it's bad, mmkay? Try the
                following:

                1) Change your GA code from this:

                <script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js"
                type="text/javascript">
                </script>
                <script type="text/javascript">
                _uacct = "UA-<hidden for privacy>";
                urchinTracker();
                </script>

                ...to this:

                <script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js"
                type="text/javascript">
                </script>
                <script type="text/javascript">
                _uacct = "UA-<hidden for privacy>";
                _userv = 2;
                urchinTracker();
                </script>

                You'll want to use your actual GA account number, naturally.


                2) Get rid of or comment out all references to:

                <script src="/__utm.js" type="text/javascript"></script>


                That should do the trick. Thaaaaaanks!


                =================
                Mike Chipman
                XOONI
                p: (866) 376-5923
                f: (815) 301-8689
                mike@...
                http://www.xooni.com
                =================



                Sam Michel wrote:
                > Hello All...
                >
                > Apologies if this question has been asked a squillion times before. I've
                > tried searching the archives but unsurprisingly all the keywords are rather
                > common in the threads.
                >
                > I was wondering if someone had come across this issue before. We run Urchin
                > 5 on our server for a while now. I thought it might be handy to dabble with
                > Google Analytics (GA) and after a fairly tortuous wait for an invitation we
                > got up and running. Now I have both the GA and Urchin tags in the pages.
                >
                > Urchin is fine and dandy and recording data like it always did. GA on the
                > other hand is registering a handful of visits each week. When I say handful,
                > I mean three or four, versus the thousands registered by Urchin. The code's
                > appearing on the pages (see http://www.chinwag.com) but no-show on the stats
                > front.
                >
                > Anyone else had this issue? Any pointers would be much appreciated. I'm
                > fully expecting that I've done something daft and preparing a nice shiny
                > piece of wall to bang against my head in that event.
                >
                > Have a good weekend.
                >
                > Toodle Pip
                >
                > Sam
                > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                > Sam Michel e: sam@...
                > t: 0870 730 7313 f: 0870 730 7312
                > Chinwag - http://www.chinwag.com
                > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                > http://jobs.chinwag.com
                > work in new media - hundreds of jobs
                >
                > Win a Nintendo DS & Super Mario Bros:
                > http://www.chinwag.com/ac/c.cgi?cid=111&mid=340
                >
                > New: Chinwag Jobs Blog
                > http://jobs.chinwag.com/blog
                > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------------
                > The Web Analytics Forum
                > Founded by Eric T. Peterson (www.webanalyticsdemystified.com)
                > Moderated by the Web Analytics Association (www.webanalyticsassociation.org)
                > Email moderators at: webanalytics-moderators@yahoogroups.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Sam Michel
                Hello All... Hope it s OK to post this. Shout at me, if it s not. Just had this metrics post added to our new media jobs board:
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 4, 2006
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                  Hello All...

                  Hope it's OK to post this. Shout at me, if it's not.

                  Just had this metrics post added to our new media jobs board:

                  http://jobs.chinwag.com/jobs/5467/

                  Salary: £30,000- £40,000 depending on experience

                  Location: South West London

                  Would you like to work for on of the world’s largest media publishing
                  companies with a portfolio of award winning websites and online services?
                  These cover over 18 markets in the UK, Europe, USA and Asia and include most
                  of the leading names in business publishing.

                  The company is looking for a web analyst to report on website user activity
                  to key stakeholders. You will monitor key performance indicators, post click
                  behavior and user path analysis. The successful candidate will ensure all
                  data is accurate and supports business needs as well as suggesting
                  developments to improve conversion rates based on your analysis.

                  You must be an experienced problem solver who is used to tracking user
                  behaviour in an online environment. If you are confident processing numeric
                  data and an organized self starter send your CV now!

                  http://jobs.chinwag.com/jobs/5467/

                  We don't get too many post like thisspecifically for metricians - surely a
                  word for metrics people - although according to the dictionary it means "a
                  composer of verses" - so I thought I'd pop it up here.

                  Hope someone finds it useful.

                  Toodle Pip

                  Sam
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------
                  Sam Michel e: sam@...
                  t: 0870 730 7313 f: 0870 730 7312
                  Chinwag - http://www.chinwag.com
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://jobs.chinwag.com
                  work in new media - hundreds of jobs

                  Win a Nintendo DS & Super Mario Bros:
                  http://www.chinwag.com/ac/c.cgi?cid=111&mid=340

                  New: Chinwag Jobs Blog
                  http://jobs.chinwag.com/blog
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------
                • Sam Michel
                  Cheers Mike, I ll give that a go. I had a hunch it wouldn t be quite as simple as plugging the code straight in. Toodle Pip Sam ... Sam Michel e:
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 4, 2006
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                    Cheers Mike, I'll give that a go.

                    I had a hunch it wouldn't be quite as simple as plugging the code straight
                    in.

                    Toodle Pip

                    Sam
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------
                    Sam Michel e: sam@...
                    t: 0870 730 7313 f: 0870 730 7312
                    Chinwag - http://www.chinwag.com
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------
                    http://jobs.chinwag.com
                    work in new media - hundreds of jobs

                    Win a Nintendo DS & Super Mario Bros:
                    http://www.chinwag.com/ac/c.cgi?cid=111&mid=340

                    New: Chinwag Jobs Blog
                    http://jobs.chinwag.com/blog
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Chipman
                    > Sent: 01 September 2006 21:06
                    > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [webanalytics] Google Analytics & Urchin S/W Not
                    > Playing Nicely
                    >
                    > You're referencing __utm.js and urchin.js on each page --
                    > I'll spare the
                    > technical explanation and will just say that it's bad, mmkay?
                    > Try the
                    > following:
                    >
                    > 1) Change your GA code from this:
                    >
                    > <script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js"
                    > type="text/javascript">
                    > </script>
                    > <script type="text/javascript">
                    > _uacct = "UA-<hidden for privacy>";
                    > urchinTracker();
                    > </script>
                    >
                    > ...to this:
                    >
                    > <script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js"
                    > type="text/javascript">
                    > </script>
                    > <script type="text/javascript">
                    > _uacct = "UA-<hidden for privacy>";
                    > _userv = 2;
                    > urchinTracker();
                    > </script>
                    >
                    > You'll want to use your actual GA account number, naturally.
                    >
                    >
                    > 2) Get rid of or comment out all references to:
                    >
                    > <script src="/__utm.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
                    >
                    >
                    > That should do the trick. Thaaaaaanks!
                    >
                    >
                    > =================
                    > Mike Chipman
                    > XOONI
                    > p: (866) 376-5923
                    > f: (815) 301-8689
                    > mike@...
                    > http://www.xooni.com
                    > =================
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sam Michel wrote:
                    > > Hello All...
                    > >
                    > > Apologies if this question has been asked a squillion times
                    > before. I've
                    > > tried searching the archives but unsurprisingly all the
                    > keywords are rather
                    > > common in the threads.
                    > >
                    > > I was wondering if someone had come across this issue
                    > before. We run Urchin
                    > > 5 on our server for a while now. I thought it might be
                    > handy to dabble with
                    > > Google Analytics (GA) and after a fairly tortuous wait for
                    > an invitation we
                    > > got up and running. Now I have both the GA and Urchin tags
                    > in the pages.
                    > >
                    > > Urchin is fine and dandy and recording data like it always
                    > did. GA on the
                    > > other hand is registering a handful of visits each week.
                    > When I say handful,
                    > > I mean three or four, versus the thousands registered by
                    > Urchin. The code's
                    > > appearing on the pages (see http://www.chinwag.com) but
                    > no-show on the stats
                    > > front.
                    > >
                    > > Anyone else had this issue? Any pointers would be much
                    > appreciated. I'm
                    > > fully expecting that I've done something daft and preparing
                    > a nice shiny
                    > > piece of wall to bang against my head in that event.
                    > >
                    > > Have a good weekend.
                    > >
                    > > Toodle Pip
                    > >
                    > > Sam
                    > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > Sam Michel e: sam@...
                    > > t: 0870 730 7313 f: 0870 730 7312
                    > > Chinwag - http://www.chinwag.com
                    > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > http://jobs.chinwag.com
                    > > work in new media - hundreds of jobs
                    > >
                    > > Win a Nintendo DS & Super Mario Bros:
                    > > http://www.chinwag.com/ac/c.cgi?cid=111&mid=340
                    > >
                    > > New: Chinwag Jobs Blog
                    > > http://jobs.chinwag.com/blog
                    > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
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