Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [webanalytics] Re: recommendation for switching from log-based analytics

Expand Messages
  • Xavier Casanova
    Brian, Take it easy! We re here to debate and exchange ideas, not to call each other niave . I don t question the value of SEO - I am asking for more
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Brian,
       
      Take it easy! We're here to debate and exchange ideas, not to call each other "niave". I don't question the value of SEO - I am asking for more information and challenging some bold statements made on this board. I want the facts.
       
      Now on your post, I'll make one comment: double-digit CTRs is awesome, but that sounds very late 90's to me. What you want is revenue, right?
      If you agree, then prove to me (us) that the incremental ROI from Natural Search (profit/cost) is worth pursuing VS a more predictable paid search program.
       
      And like Jim Novo said this morning, I too believe the key is having a balance between natural and search. Which is different from the bold statements made earlier on this board ("I question if there is a more compelling ROI story in the entire web analytics industry.")
       
      Cheers and go Arsenal - sincerly,
       
      Xavier

       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: brian@...
      Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:42 AM
      Subject: [webanalytics] Re: recommendation for switching from log-based analytics

      > Xavier here from Fireclick - and not a huge believer in log files for the
      > purpose of Web analytics (that would be an euphemism :) Please educate me
      > a little bit on this one... Your statements are pretty strong:
      >
      > >I question if there is a more compelling ROI story in the entire web
      > >analytics industry.
      >
      > SEO is a pretty mature "industry" - which existed well before paid search
      > became popular. After so many years of SEO, are you implying there is
      > still much to be gained from optimizing Web sites for search?

      Are you joking???

      One recognised industry conference (SES) producing 4 conferences
      a year for the entire world... No recognised association (though
      its being worked on)... No regulation (how many unsolicted calls
      do your clients get for £99 SEO??)... Hardly any software tools
      for managing/monitoring oragnic campaigns... SE's being
      bought/sold/going public/going out of business every other
      month... Major algorithm changes, Localisation, Desktop Search...

      > > You must provide in-depth Spider navigation data, keyword conversion
      > > data (the lone part of the equation that tag-based collection can
      > > provide), keyword ranking data, competitor keyword indexing & ranking
      > > data, ranking improvement recommendations and more.

      > Sounds great on paper - but is worth the trouble? Wouldn't you be better
      > off ramping up your paid keyword budget a tiny bit?

      Sorry Xavier, but that's niave and goes beyond this forum. All
      useability studies I know of, show that orangic listings are
      clicked on more than paid ones. Clients actively ask us to
      provide good organic listings. They know how PPC works (and its a
      great advertising idea), but the Holy Grail is organic visibilty.

      BTW, I have yet to see a PPC campaign produce double digit CTR's.
      Even if yours are, where do the rest of the visitors go??

      I hope this thread doesn't go down the LA v Tagging route, or
      maybe you are just teasing us...

      Best regards, Brian



      =============================================================
      Omega Digital Media Ltd

           I N T E G R A T E D ~ W E B ~ S O L U T I O N S

      Phone: +44 (0)1444 410202
      Fax:   +44 (0)1444 456814

      http://www.omegadm.co.uk
      =============================================================
      Cuckfield House, High Street, Cuckfield, West Sussex RH17 5EL




      ---------------------------------------
      Web Metrics Discussion Group
      Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com



    • brian@omegadm.co.uk
      Don t worry Xavier - I m easy (must have been a bad morning) However that was a provocative statement, even if you were feigning naivity - along with that
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 3, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Don't worry Xavier - I'm easy (must have been a bad morning)

        However that was a provocative statement, even if you were
        feigning naivity - along with "that sounds very late 90's to me".

        If you have a well established SEM campaign with optimised pages
        for SE's and usability, you then obviously go back to your CTR's
        and look at how this can be improved. It doesn't matter what era
        you are in, all sales/marketing efforts need looking at regularly
        - otherwise what's the point of employing S&M people?

        From your comment 'What you want is revenue, right?', yes
        ultimately you are right. But the vast majority of commercial web
        sites out there are non-eCommerce. That means for non-eCommerce
        sites, your web site is there as the first base for establishing
        relationships - be it new or existing customers. So increasing
        revenue is not so easy to calculate. Having said that, here's an
        example of our work.

        "SEO halves your cost of acquisition"

        CASE STUDY:
        ----------
        1] Client = car hire company (can book/pay on-line)
        Originally all SEM was done in-house and consisted purely of PPC
        on Google. Their organic SE visibility was 0 when we started,
        meaning that they had no listings within the Top 50 results.


        RESULTS:
        --------
        Number of orgainc 1st page listings:
        T = 0, 0
        T = 3 months, 30
        T = 12 months, 103

        Cost per visitor acquisition:
        T = 0 months, £1.21
        T = 12 months, £0.29

        Bookings online (Oct 2004):
        Total = 145
        PPC = 32

        That of course does not mean the remaining 113 bookings were all
        from organic SE's, but we are pretty sure most of them are as the
        client does not do off-line advertising except contact existing
        customers (unfortunately they are not as interested in their
        analytics as we are, otherwise we would tag these campaigns and
        analyse separately).

        For the 'Cost per visitor acquisition', half of this was achieved
        via better PPC management (spread over different providers, Gap
        Surfing etc.). This was then halved again once SEO kicked in (it
        took about 6 months)

        So, what do you think? Worth doing??

        Best regards, Brian


        > Take it easy! We're here to debate and exchange ideas, not to call each
        > other "niave". I don't question the value of SEO - I am asking for more
        > information and challenging some bold statements made on this board. I
        > want the facts.
        >
        > Now on your post, I'll make one comment: double-digit CTRs is awesome, but
        > that sounds very late 90's to me. What you want is revenue, right? If you
        > agree, then prove to me (us) that the incremental ROI from Natural Search
        > (profit/cost) is worth pursuing VS a more predictable paid search program.
        >
        > And like Jim Novo said this morning, I too believe the key is having a
        > balance between natural and search. Which is different from the bold
        > statements made earlier on this board ("I question if there is a more
        > compelling ROI story in the entire web analytics industry.")
        >
        > Cheers and go Arsenal - sincerly,
        >
        > Xavier
        >



        =============================================================
        Omega Digital Media Ltd

        I N T E G R A T E D ~ W E B ~ S O L U T I O N S

        Phone: +44 (0)1444 410202
        Fax: +44 (0)1444 456814

        http://www.omegadm.co.uk
        =============================================================
        Cuckfield House, High Street, Cuckfield, West Sussex RH17 5EL
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.