Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [webanalytics] Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some real innovation?)

Expand Messages
  • Simon Austin
    Where is that quote from? Got a link? I m VERY interested in this. Cheers, - Simon Austin ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 4, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Where is that quote from? Got a link? I'm VERY interested in this.

      Cheers,

      - Simon Austin


      On 4/4/06, jon.bovard@... <jon.bovard@...> wrote:
      >
      > Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a vendor
      > has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in practice)
      > something really useful.
      > Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a standard
      > ODBC connection."
      > Whilst on the surface this seems trivial, if you can imagine being able
      > to extract any analytics reporting element as an extensible piece of
      > information, then you are no longer limited by the (sometimes
      > frustrating) veneer of the reporting interface which is (often) designed
      > to impress C-levels rather than be useful.
      > My guess is the real 'value' in a web analytics solution is the data
      > collection (tags) and storage/processing (data warehouse). Neither of
      > which are that 'marketable' during the sales process.
      > The reporting interface seems to have been the focus over the past
      > couple of years (as its so important for impressing potential clients).
      > As a web analytics type, I feel that vendors need to focus on exposing
      > more of the data warehouse to us than just focussing on more 'whistles
      > and bells' that seem to impress the marketing people responsible for
      > vendor selection.
      > I would encourage vendors as much as possible to open up the API as much
      > as possible to the end users, rather than just your 'partners'.
      > Finally we can do away with ridiculous things like dashboards, streaming
      > desktop report viewers and the like which seems to have soaked up huge
      > amount of vendors R & D budgets (possibly in the interest of winning
      > business) and focus on real, tailor made, integrated reporting solutions
      > that will allow any piece of info to be extracted from the data
      > warehouse and integrated where required, without the need for expensive
      > and fiddly CSV and XML feeds or ungainly Excel spreadsheets as a
      > middleware solution.
      > Imagine being able to build your own 'Web analytics reports' using
      > Crystal, Cognos or even MS Access, straight out of your Web analytics
      > providers Data warehouse. That's true power.
      > In other words, with the right API and a well structured data warehouse
      > - "anything is possible"
      > Are Web analytics API's the future? Maybe Im dreaming...
      > jon
      > Ps - Can someone at Webtrends please contact me offline to discuss this
      > please? I would like to know more about 'what's possible'
      > jon.bovard AT gmail.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------------
      > Web Metrics Discussion Group
      > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Craig Sullivan
      Well, Some people have been there, got the t-shirt etc. Sane Netracker has been using MySQL to store all its data for yonks. Also, Coremetrics will provide a
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 4, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Well,

        Some people have been there, got the t-shirt etc.

        Sane Netracker has been using MySQL to store all its data for yonks.

        Also, Coremetrics will provide a data feed which you can dump into a SQL
        database.

        I think its pretty bad that some vendors have a closed database schema or
        inflexible reporting tools - there are plenty of people who can think up
        novel ways of interrogating that raw data.

        Craig Sullivan
        Website Manager
        Video Island Entertainment Ltd
        +44 (0)7711 657315
        +44 (0)20 8951 9882

        There are no rules, only customers.....
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <jon.bovard@...>
        To: <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:08 PM
        Subject: [webanalytics] Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some real
        innovation?)


        > Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a vendor
        > has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in practice)
        > something really useful.
        > Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a standard
        > ODBC connection."
        > Whilst on the surface this seems trivial, if you can imagine being able
        > to extract any analytics reporting element as an extensible piece of
        > information, then you are no longer limited by the (sometimes
        > frustrating) veneer of the reporting interface which is (often) designed
        > to impress C-levels rather than be useful.
        > My guess is the real 'value' in a web analytics solution is the data
        > collection (tags) and storage/processing (data warehouse). Neither of
        > which are that 'marketable' during the sales process.
        > The reporting interface seems to have been the focus over the past
        > couple of years (as its so important for impressing potential clients).
        > As a web analytics type, I feel that vendors need to focus on exposing
        > more of the data warehouse to us than just focussing on more 'whistles
        > and bells' that seem to impress the marketing people responsible for
        > vendor selection.
        > I would encourage vendors as much as possible to open up the API as much
        > as possible to the end users, rather than just your 'partners'.
        > Finally we can do away with ridiculous things like dashboards, streaming
        > desktop report viewers and the like which seems to have soaked up huge
        > amount of vendors R & D budgets (possibly in the interest of winning
        > business) and focus on real, tailor made, integrated reporting solutions
        > that will allow any piece of info to be extracted from the data
        > warehouse and integrated where required, without the need for expensive
        > and fiddly CSV and XML feeds or ungainly Excel spreadsheets as a
        > middleware solution.
        > Imagine being able to build your own 'Web analytics reports' using
        > Crystal, Cognos or even MS Access, straight out of your Web analytics
        > providers Data warehouse. That's true power.
        > In other words, with the right API and a well structured data warehouse
        > - "anything is possible"
        > Are Web analytics API's the future? Maybe Im dreaming...
        > jon
        > Ps - Can someone at Webtrends please contact me offline to discuss this
        > please? I would like to know more about 'what's possible'
        > jon.bovard AT gmail.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------------
        > Web Metrics Discussion Group
        > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
        > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
        > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Akin Arikan
        Hi Jon, The folks in our team at Unica NetTracker could not agree more with you on the benefits of keeping Web analytics systems as open as possible. In order
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Jon,

          The folks in our team at Unica NetTracker could not agree more with you
          on the benefits of keeping Web analytics systems as open as possible. In
          order to protect innovations that have been made at our firm I should
          respond to your posting by mentioning that NetTracker has been storing
          its Web analytics data in an open database since 1999. Customers have a
          choice between SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle, or DB2 today.

          Leveraging this open data warehouse, customers have access to starter
          kits that have been pre-built using Business Objects, Cognos, or
          MicroStrategy solutions to get customers up and running in two days.

          There is one thing I need to disagree with however. Namely, Web
          analytics solutions' built-in user interfaces, user configurable
          dashboards, custom and ad-hoc reporting capabilities are of great use to
          customers after all. The built-in user interfaces are fantastic for 80%
          of the requirements and speedy deployments. As companies become more
          mature in their goals with Web analytics however they usually wish to
          break down the silos between Web analytics and the rest of the business
          intelligence, offline databases, and marketing automation tools. When
          that happens only open and flexible system can support their wishes.

          Best,

          Akin
          Unica NetTracker




          -----Original Message-----
          From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of jon.bovard@...
          Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:09 AM
          To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [webanalytics] Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some
          real innovation?)

          Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a vendor
          has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in practice)
          something really useful.
          Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a standard
          ODBC connection."
          Whilst on the surface this seems trivial, if you can imagine being able
          to extract any analytics reporting element as an extensible piece of
          information, then you are no longer limited by the (sometimes
          frustrating) veneer of the reporting interface which is (often) designed
          to impress C-levels rather than be useful.
          My guess is the real 'value' in a web analytics solution is the data
          collection (tags) and storage/processing (data warehouse). Neither of
          which are that 'marketable' during the sales process.
          The reporting interface seems to have been the focus over the past
          couple of years (as its so important for impressing potential clients).
          As a web analytics type, I feel that vendors need to focus on exposing
          more of the data warehouse to us than just focussing on more 'whistles
          and bells' that seem to impress the marketing people responsible for
          vendor selection.
          I would encourage vendors as much as possible to open up the API as much
          as possible to the end users, rather than just your 'partners'.
          Finally we can do away with ridiculous things like dashboards, streaming
          desktop report viewers and the like which seems to have soaked up huge
          amount of vendors R & D budgets (possibly in the interest of winning
          business) and focus on real, tailor made, integrated reporting solutions
          that will allow any piece of info to be extracted from the data
          warehouse and integrated where required, without the need for expensive
          and fiddly CSV and XML feeds or ungainly Excel spreadsheets as a
          middleware solution.
          Imagine being able to build your own 'Web analytics reports' using
          Crystal, Cognos or even MS Access, straight out of your Web analytics
          providers Data warehouse. That's true power.
          In other words, with the right API and a well structured data warehouse
          - "anything is possible"
          Are Web analytics API's the future? Maybe Im dreaming...
          jon
          Ps - Can someone at Webtrends please contact me offline to discuss this
          please? I would like to know more about 'what's possible'
          jon.bovard AT gmail.com




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          ---------------------------------------
          Web Metrics Discussion Group
          Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
          Author, Web Analytics Demystified
          http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • jon.bovard@bt.com
          Akin, agree that interfaces, dashboards are valuable to the vast majority of users. My point is that the vendors have focussed excessively huge amounts of
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Akin, agree that interfaces, dashboards are valuable to the vast
            majority of users. My point is that the vendors have focussed
            excessively huge amounts of finite R&D cash in making the sexiest
            reports possible, possibly at the cost of making the data warehouse
            and/or architecture more powerful/extensible.

            jon



            -----Original Message-----
            From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Akin Arikan
            Sent: 04 April 2006 15:48
            To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [webanalytics] Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some
            real innovation?)

            Hi Jon,

            The folks in our team at Unica NetTracker could not agree more with you
            on the benefits of keeping Web analytics systems as open as possible. In
            order to protect innovations that have been made at our firm I should
            respond to your posting by mentioning that NetTracker has been storing
            its Web analytics data in an open database since 1999. Customers have a
            choice between SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle, or DB2 today.

            Leveraging this open data warehouse, customers have access to starter
            kits that have been pre-built using Business Objects, Cognos, or
            MicroStrategy solutions to get customers up and running in two days.

            There is one thing I need to disagree with however. Namely, Web
            analytics solutions' built-in user interfaces, user configurable
            dashboards, custom and ad-hoc reporting capabilities are of great use to
            customers after all. The built-in user interfaces are fantastic for 80%
            of the requirements and speedy deployments. As companies become more
            mature in their goals with Web analytics however they usually wish to
            break down the silos between Web analytics and the rest of the business
            intelligence, offline databases, and marketing automation tools. When
            that happens only open and flexible system can support their wishes.

            Best,

            Akin
            Unica NetTracker




            -----Original Message-----
            From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of jon.bovard@...
            Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:09 AM
            To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [webanalytics] Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some
            real innovation?)

            Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a vendor
            has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in practice)
            something really useful.
            Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a standard
            ODBC connection."
            Whilst on the surface this seems trivial, if you can imagine being able
            to extract any analytics reporting element as an extensible piece of
            information, then you are no longer limited by the (sometimes
            frustrating) veneer of the reporting interface which is (often) designed
            to impress C-levels rather than be useful.
            My guess is the real 'value' in a web analytics solution is the data
            collection (tags) and storage/processing (data warehouse). Neither of
            which are that 'marketable' during the sales process.
            The reporting interface seems to have been the focus over the past
            couple of years (as its so important for impressing potential clients).
            As a web analytics type, I feel that vendors need to focus on exposing
            more of the data warehouse to us than just focussing on more 'whistles
            and bells' that seem to impress the marketing people responsible for
            vendor selection.
            I would encourage vendors as much as possible to open up the API as much
            as possible to the end users, rather than just your 'partners'.
            Finally we can do away with ridiculous things like dashboards, streaming
            desktop report viewers and the like which seems to have soaked up huge
            amount of vendors R & D budgets (possibly in the interest of winning
            business) and focus on real, tailor made, integrated reporting solutions
            that will allow any piece of info to be extracted from the data
            warehouse and integrated where required, without the need for expensive
            and fiddly CSV and XML feeds or ungainly Excel spreadsheets as a
            middleware solution.
            Imagine being able to build your own 'Web analytics reports' using
            Crystal, Cognos or even MS Access, straight out of your Web analytics
            providers Data warehouse. That's true power.
            In other words, with the right API and a well structured data warehouse
            - "anything is possible"
            Are Web analytics API's the future? Maybe Im dreaming...
            jon
            Ps - Can someone at Webtrends please contact me offline to discuss this
            please? I would like to know more about 'what's possible'
            jon.bovard AT gmail.com




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            ---------------------------------------
            Web Metrics Discussion Group
            Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
            Author, Web Analytics Demystified
            http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links











            ---------------------------------------
            Web Metrics Discussion Group
            Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
            Author, Web Analytics Demystified
            http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • jon.bovard@bt.com
            I read it on some guys Blog. Therefore it MUST be true http://blog.keyes.us/pivot/entry.php?id=35 ... From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 4, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              I read it on some guys Blog. Therefore it MUST be true

              http://blog.keyes.us/pivot/entry.php?id=35



              -----Original Message-----
              From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Simon Austin
              Sent: 04 April 2006 15:34
              To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [webanalytics] Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some
              real innovation?)

              Where is that quote from? Got a link? I'm VERY interested in this.

              Cheers,

              - Simon Austin


              On 4/4/06, jon.bovard@... <jon.bovard@...> wrote:
              >
              > Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a vendor
              > has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in practice)
              > something really useful.
              > Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a
              > standard ODBC connection."
              > Whilst on the surface this seems trivial, if you can imagine being
              > able to extract any analytics reporting element as an extensible piece

              > of information, then you are no longer limited by the (sometimes
              > frustrating) veneer of the reporting interface which is (often)
              > designed to impress C-levels rather than be useful.
              > My guess is the real 'value' in a web analytics solution is the data
              > collection (tags) and storage/processing (data warehouse). Neither of
              > which are that 'marketable' during the sales process.
              > The reporting interface seems to have been the focus over the past
              > couple of years (as its so important for impressing potential
              clients).
              > As a web analytics type, I feel that vendors need to focus on exposing

              > more of the data warehouse to us than just focussing on more 'whistles

              > and bells' that seem to impress the marketing people responsible for
              > vendor selection.
              > I would encourage vendors as much as possible to open up the API as
              > much as possible to the end users, rather than just your 'partners'.
              > Finally we can do away with ridiculous things like dashboards,
              > streaming desktop report viewers and the like which seems to have
              > soaked up huge amount of vendors R & D budgets (possibly in the
              > interest of winning
              > business) and focus on real, tailor made, integrated reporting
              > solutions that will allow any piece of info to be extracted from the
              > data warehouse and integrated where required, without the need for
              > expensive and fiddly CSV and XML feeds or ungainly Excel spreadsheets
              > as a middleware solution.
              > Imagine being able to build your own 'Web analytics reports' using
              > Crystal, Cognos or even MS Access, straight out of your Web analytics
              > providers Data warehouse. That's true power.
              > In other words, with the right API and a well structured data
              > warehouse
              > - "anything is possible"
              > Are Web analytics API's the future? Maybe Im dreaming...
              > jon
              > Ps - Can someone at Webtrends please contact me offline to discuss
              > this please? I would like to know more about 'what's possible'
              > jon.bovard AT gmail.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------------
              > Web Metrics Discussion Group
              > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
              > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
              > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              ---------------------------------------
              Web Metrics Discussion Group
              Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
              Author, Web Analytics Demystified
              http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Mike Keyes
              Ha! Ha! I m that some guy . WebTrends moved the marketing PDF that was the source for that post and I can no longer find it on their site. But I swear that s
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 4, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Ha! Ha!

                I'm that "some guy". WebTrends moved the marketing PDF that was the
                source for that post and I can no longer find it on their site. But I
                swear that's what it said! If you want a copy please contact me off list
                (mike at ciceron dot com), but I'd suggest just contacting a WT rep
                directly. They should know more about this than me.

                (For the record, we own and use WebTrends but we are not affiliated with
                them in any other way)
                ...................................................................
                mike keyes::ciceron::612.204.1919 ex.40
                ...................................................................
                Get Web Results -- Our web marketing newsletter
                http://www.ciceron.com/enews.asp

                -----Original Message-----
                From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of jon.bovard@...
                Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:37 AM
                To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [webanalytics] Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some
                real innovation?)

                I read it on some guys Blog. Therefore it MUST be true

                http://blog.keyes.us/pivot/entry.php?id=35
              • Steve
                Somewhat related, there are several articles floating around that demonstrate how to pull apart web server logs (mainly Apache, but the concepts don t change
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 4, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Somewhat related, there are several articles floating around that
                  demonstrate how to pull apart web server logs (mainly Apache, but the
                  concepts don't change with other systems) and pull the resulting data
                  into an SQL based database.

                  Most of the articles don't do a very good job (if at all) of
                  explaining normalisation and other DB specific performance etc
                  enhancements, but the gist is there.

                  One I quickly found that shows how to pull Apache logs into a
                  postgreSQL DB is here:
                  http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/03/03/pg_datamining.html

                  If I ever felt the need, I'd probably put a somewhat simple perl front
                  end to the parser and do all the normalisation that way. Much cleaner,
                  more obvious, and quite trivial.


                  As for the the "pretty" sales? Are you really surprised??? ;-)
                  I've been at a meeting where a senior manager stated that we would not
                  bother pursing Product A as it didn't have as pretty an interface as
                  Product B. Despite the product being a extremely techo tool that would
                  never get out of the hands of the full on technical staff who usually
                  despise pretty as it gets in their way.

                  It was a defining Dilbert moment...


                  - Steve


                  On 4/5/06, jon.bovard@... <jon.bovard@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a vendor
                  > has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in practice)
                  > something really useful.
                  > Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a standard
                  > ODBC connection."
                • Colin Cooper
                  Jon, Pilot Software s HitList has had this capability as well for many years. The data is stored in an open industry standard database (SQL Server, Oracle,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jon,

                    Pilot Software's HitList has had this capability as well for many
                    years. The data is stored in an open industry standard database (SQL
                    Server, Oracle, DB2) with a fully documented schema – which you can
                    extend to suit your needs. This means you've got all the native
                    functions of those databases to play with as well. We've customers
                    doing just what you describe and manipulating the data in a number of
                    other ways.

                    At the same time the flow can go the other way with HitList
                    querying totally separate ODBC accessible databases either for
                    integration of the results into its reporting or to act as a
                    reporting interface onto that external data.

                    Colin Cooper colin@...
                    ISSEL
                    Pilot Software – Aligning Strategy with Execution
                    Tel: +44 (0)870 166 2435


                    --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, <jon.bovard@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a
                    vendor
                    > has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in
                    practice)
                    > something really useful.
                    > Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a
                    standard
                    > ODBC connection."
                    > Whilst on the surface this seems trivial, if you can imagine being
                    able
                    > to extract any analytics reporting element as an extensible piece of
                    > information, then you are no longer limited by the (sometimes
                    > frustrating) veneer of the reporting interface which is (often)
                    designed
                    > to impress C-levels rather than be useful.
                    > My guess is the real 'value' in a web analytics solution is the data
                    > collection (tags) and storage/processing (data warehouse). Neither
                    of
                    > which are that 'marketable' during the sales process.
                    > The reporting interface seems to have been the focus over the past
                    > couple of years (as its so important for impressing potential
                    clients).
                    > As a web analytics type, I feel that vendors need to focus on
                    exposing
                    > more of the data warehouse to us than just focussing on
                    more 'whistles
                    > and bells' that seem to impress the marketing people responsible for
                    > vendor selection.
                    > I would encourage vendors as much as possible to open up the API as
                    much
                    > as possible to the end users, rather than just your 'partners'.
                    > Finally we can do away with ridiculous things like dashboards,
                    streaming
                    > desktop report viewers and the like which seems to have soaked up
                    huge
                    > amount of vendors R & D budgets (possibly in the interest of winning
                    > business) and focus on real, tailor made, integrated reporting
                    solutions
                    > that will allow any piece of info to be extracted from the data
                    > warehouse and integrated where required, without the need for
                    expensive
                    > and fiddly CSV and XML feeds or ungainly Excel spreadsheets as a
                    > middleware solution.
                    > Imagine being able to build your own 'Web analytics reports' using
                    > Crystal, Cognos or even MS Access, straight out of your Web
                    analytics
                    > providers Data warehouse. That's true power.
                    > In other words, with the right API and a well structured data
                    warehouse
                    > - "anything is possible"
                    > Are Web analytics API's the future? Maybe Im dreaming...
                    > jon
                    > Ps - Can someone at Webtrends please contact me offline to discuss
                    this
                    > please? I would like to know more about 'what's possible'
                    > jon.bovard AT gmail.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Gibbard, Simon
                    SPSS Clementine takes a different approach and adds support for web data to an established analytical platform. A dedicated importer populates a SQLServer or
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      SPSS Clementine takes a different approach and adds support for web data to an established analytical platform. A dedicated importer populates a SQLServer or Oracle database with web data, which is then used as a source for analysis. Other supported sources include unstructured data (e.g. documents, search phrases, survey responses, PPC ad copy, call center notes etc), transactional and offline customer data (via ODBC), and 3rd party API feeds (e.g. Adwords).

                      Clementine is not a web analytics application in the traditional sense. As such, it won't replace your existing web analytics, but it will allow you to expand your use of web data and broaden the scope of the support that you give to the business through analytics.

                      Simon Gibbard
                      SPSS

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin Cooper
                      Sent: 05 April 2006 10:33
                      To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some real innovation?)

                      Jon,

                      Pilot Software's HitList has had this capability as well for many
                      years. The data is stored in an open industry standard database (SQL
                      Server, Oracle, DB2) with a fully documented schema - which you can
                      extend to suit your needs. This means you've got all the native
                      functions of those databases to play with as well. We've customers
                      doing just what you describe and manipulating the data in a number of
                      other ways.

                      At the same time the flow can go the other way with HitList
                      querying totally separate ODBC accessible databases either for
                      integration of the results into its reporting or to act as a
                      reporting interface onto that external data.

                      Colin Cooper colin@...
                      ISSEL
                      Pilot Software - Aligning Strategy with Execution
                      Tel: +44 (0)870 166 2435


                      --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, <jon.bovard@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a
                      vendor
                      > has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in
                      practice)
                      > something really useful.
                      > Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a
                      standard
                      > ODBC connection."
                      > Whilst on the surface this seems trivial, if you can imagine being
                      able
                      > to extract any analytics reporting element as an extensible piece of
                      > information, then you are no longer limited by the (sometimes
                      > frustrating) veneer of the reporting interface which is (often)
                      designed
                      > to impress C-levels rather than be useful.
                      > My guess is the real 'value' in a web analytics solution is the data
                      > collection (tags) and storage/processing (data warehouse). Neither
                      of
                      > which are that 'marketable' during the sales process.
                      > The reporting interface seems to have been the focus over the past
                      > couple of years (as its so important for impressing potential
                      clients).
                      > As a web analytics type, I feel that vendors need to focus on
                      exposing
                      > more of the data warehouse to us than just focussing on
                      more 'whistles
                      > and bells' that seem to impress the marketing people responsible for
                      > vendor selection.
                      > I would encourage vendors as much as possible to open up the API as
                      much
                      > as possible to the end users, rather than just your 'partners'.
                      > Finally we can do away with ridiculous things like dashboards,
                      streaming
                      > desktop report viewers and the like which seems to have soaked up
                      huge
                      > amount of vendors R & D budgets (possibly in the interest of winning
                      > business) and focus on real, tailor made, integrated reporting
                      solutions
                      > that will allow any piece of info to be extracted from the data
                      > warehouse and integrated where required, without the need for
                      expensive
                      > and fiddly CSV and XML feeds or ungainly Excel spreadsheets as a
                      > middleware solution.
                      > Imagine being able to build your own 'Web analytics reports' using
                      > Crystal, Cognos or even MS Access, straight out of your Web
                      analytics
                      > providers Data warehouse. That's true power.
                      > In other words, with the right API and a well structured data
                      warehouse
                      > - "anything is possible"
                      > Are Web analytics API's the future? Maybe Im dreaming...
                      > jon
                      > Ps - Can someone at Webtrends please contact me offline to discuss
                      this
                      > please? I would like to know more about 'what's possible'
                      > jon.bovard AT gmail.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >










                      ---------------------------------------
                      Web Metrics Discussion Group
                      Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
                      Author, Web Analytics Demystified
                      http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • jon bovard
                      Some really interesting responses here from several people in my inbox, including vendors and other analysts. It would seem that some vendors offer this
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 5, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Some really interesting responses here from several people in my inbox,
                        including vendors and other analysts.

                        It would seem that some vendors offer this already however the level of
                        sophistication varies

                        Sophistication in terms of the Tiers within the system in particular.

                        ie.
                        Collection Tier - how sophisticated is the collection Javascript? Some
                        vendors Javascript look like they have taken months to write which would
                        make you think a lot of thought has gone into it.
                        Processing/Aggregation Tier - how thoughtfully created is the processing
                        engine that chomps the collected data. Is it optimised for certain
                        business rules/reports?
                        Storage Tier - the database/datawarehouse. ie. how normalised and how
                        accessible is it? Is it optimised for certain queries or business
                        rules/reports
                        Reporting Tier - how flexible is it? Does it really matter?

                        Its one thing to store a logfile in a database, its another thing to be
                        able to modify the database and even more importantly, the
                        processing/aggregation engine that chomps the incoming tag-data from the
                        tags and inserts it into the database. Often the database is modifiable
                        but the method of processing logs and insertion of processed data into
                        the database is not.

                        Interesting times we live in.

                        Jon





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • brewsterbarclay
                        Hi, This seems to be vendors day on this question. Like Simon, Colin, Akin et al. Clickstream s Datasherpa Software has been outputting its BI output which
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi,
                          This seems to be vendors day on this question. Like Simon, Colin,
                          Akin et al. Clickstream's Datasherpa Software has been outputting
                          its "BI" output which goes directly into a database for querying for
                          years.
                          Regards,
                          Brewster Barclay

                          CEO
                          Clickstream Technologies PLC

                          --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Gibbard, Simon" <sgibbard@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > SPSS Clementine takes a different approach and adds support for
                          web data to an established analytical platform. A dedicated importer
                          populates a SQLServer or Oracle database with web data, which is
                          then used as a source for analysis. Other supported sources include
                          unstructured data (e.g. documents, search phrases, survey responses,
                          PPC ad copy, call center notes etc), transactional and offline
                          customer data (via ODBC), and 3rd party API feeds (e.g. Adwords).
                          >
                          > Clementine is not a web analytics application in the traditional
                          sense. As such, it won't replace your existing web analytics, but it
                          will allow you to expand your use of web data and broaden the scope
                          of the support that you give to the business through analytics.
                          >
                          > Simon Gibbard
                          > SPSS
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin Cooper
                          > Sent: 05 April 2006 10:33
                          > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Web analytics via ODBC queries
                          (finally some real innovation?)
                          >
                          > Jon,
                          >
                          > Pilot Software's HitList has had this capability as well for many
                          > years. The data is stored in an open industry standard database
                          (SQL
                          > Server, Oracle, DB2) with a fully documented schema - which you
                          can
                          > extend to suit your needs. This means you've got all the native
                          > functions of those databases to play with as well. We've customers
                          > doing just what you describe and manipulating the data in a number
                          of
                          > other ways.
                          >
                          > At the same time the flow can go the other way with HitList
                          > querying totally separate ODBC accessible databases either for
                          > integration of the results into its reporting or to act as a
                          > reporting interface onto that external data.
                          >
                          > Colin Cooper colin@...
                          > ISSEL
                          > Pilot Software - Aligning Strategy with Execution
                          > Tel: +44 (0)870 166 2435
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, <jon.bovard@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Loathe as I am to talk about specific vendors tools, I think a
                          > vendor
                          > > has finally invented (at least in principal and possibly in
                          > practice)
                          > > something really useful.
                          > > Here is a quote "you'll be able to access WebTrends data via a
                          > standard
                          > > ODBC connection."
                          > > Whilst on the surface this seems trivial, if you can imagine
                          being
                          > able
                          > > to extract any analytics reporting element as an extensible
                          piece of
                          > > information, then you are no longer limited by the (sometimes
                          > > frustrating) veneer of the reporting interface which is (often)
                          > designed
                          > > to impress C-levels rather than be useful.
                          > > My guess is the real 'value' in a web analytics solution is the
                          data
                          > > collection (tags) and storage/processing (data warehouse).
                          Neither
                          > of
                          > > which are that 'marketable' during the sales process.
                          > > The reporting interface seems to have been the focus over the
                          past
                          > > couple of years (as its so important for impressing potential
                          > clients).
                          > > As a web analytics type, I feel that vendors need to focus on
                          > exposing
                          > > more of the data warehouse to us than just focussing on
                          > more 'whistles
                          > > and bells' that seem to impress the marketing people responsible
                          for
                          > > vendor selection.
                          > > I would encourage vendors as much as possible to open up the API
                          as
                          > much
                          > > as possible to the end users, rather than just your 'partners'.
                          > > Finally we can do away with ridiculous things like dashboards,
                          > streaming
                          > > desktop report viewers and the like which seems to have soaked
                          up
                          > huge
                          > > amount of vendors R & D budgets (possibly in the interest of
                          winning
                          > > business) and focus on real, tailor made, integrated reporting
                          > solutions
                          > > that will allow any piece of info to be extracted from the data
                          > > warehouse and integrated where required, without the need for
                          > expensive
                          > > and fiddly CSV and XML feeds or ungainly Excel spreadsheets as a
                          > > middleware solution.
                          > > Imagine being able to build your own 'Web analytics reports'
                          using
                          > > Crystal, Cognos or even MS Access, straight out of your Web
                          > analytics
                          > > providers Data warehouse. That's true power.
                          > > In other words, with the right API and a well structured data
                          > warehouse
                          > > - "anything is possible"
                          > > Are Web analytics API's the future? Maybe Im dreaming...
                          > > jon
                          > > Ps - Can someone at Webtrends please contact me offline to
                          discuss
                          > this
                          > > please? I would like to know more about 'what's possible'
                          > > jon.bovard AT gmail.com
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------------
                          > Web Metrics Discussion Group
                          > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
                          > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
                          > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                        • Neil Mason
                          And what s interesting here it looked like some of these vendors who have been doing it for years had lost out in the ASP vs in-house debate over the past
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            And what's interesting here it looked like some of these vendors "who have
                            been doing it for years" had lost out in the "ASP vs in-house" debate over
                            the past couple of years as the market shifted towards the US centric ASP
                            vendor space. However, as organizations realize they need to access and act
                            of the data from their e-businesess in a more multi-channel way, integration
                            has become the name of the game. That's why in the UK some of these vendors
                            and others like Site Intelligence and Foviance (WebAbacus) have developed
                            traction in certain verticals (like retail, financial services) where the
                            requirements have been driven more by the need for data interoperability
                            rather than the need for "fuel gauge" dashboards.



                            Something I have been penning some thoughts about over on ClickZ recently.



                            http://www.clickz.com/experts/crm/analyze_data/article.php/3595886



                            Cheers



                            Neil



                            Consultant, occasional speaker and part time columnist







                            _____

                            From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of brewsterbarclay
                            Sent: 06 April 2006 11:12
                            To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Web analytics via ODBC queries (finally some
                            real innovation?)



                            Hi,
                            This seems to be vendors day on this question. Like Simon, Colin,
                            Akin et al. Clickstream's Datasherpa Software has been outputting
                            its "BI" output which goes directly into a database for querying for
                            years.
                            Regards,
                            Brewster Barclay

                            CEO
                            Clickstream Technologies PLC




                            _____



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • michaelnotte
                            I met a WebTrends technical director two weeks ago and he explained me that with WT 8.0, no need anymore to build your custom export/DB import tool. But I ll
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 10, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I met a WebTrends technical director two weeks ago and he explained me
                              that with WT 8.0, no need anymore to build your custom export/DB import
                              tool.

                              But I'll wait to see before I believe it :-)

                              I'm in contact with him - he promised to send the technical
                              documentation about this as soon as it will be available. Last week, he
                              said that there was some delays with it.

                              I'll keep you posted.

                              But this would be a HUUUUUUUUUUUGHE improvement.

                              Cheers.

                              Michaël
                            • Chris Grant
                              Has anybody been using the WebTrends ODBC driver mentioned here by Michael Notte, Tim Wilson, Jon Bovard & others? There s now an ODBC driver installer in
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 24, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Has anybody been using the WebTrends ODBC driver mentioned here by
                                Michael Notte, Tim Wilson, Jon Bovard & others? There's now an ODBC
                                driver installer in WebTrends' Install Components section of the
                                admin, in WebTrends 8. You don't need to be buying the new high-end
                                marketing module to get it. I'm not yet sure how to use it. Some
                                kind of tool or interface that "speaks ODBC" would be nice.

                                Chris Grant
                                Enlighten




                                --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "michaelnotte"
                                <michaelnotte@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I met a WebTrends technical director two weeks ago and he
                                explained me
                                > that with WT 8.0, no need anymore to build your custom export/DB
                                import
                                > tool.
                                >
                                > But I'll wait to see before I believe it :-)
                                >
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.