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IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer information ?

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  • Hadoop Raj
    ... Hi, I have Omniture web logs which has the IP address of all visitors logging into website. The Omniture web logs doesn t have customer id s for
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 27, 2013
      >

      Hi,

      I have Omniture web logs which has the IP address of all visitors logging into website. The Omniture web logs doesn't have customer id's for unregistered users. For unregistered users, all we have is IP address.

      My questions are

      1) Can we get visitor details like Name, Address, Email id based on the IP address from any commercial external data source vendors like Internet Service Provider etc., If there are any vendors like that, who are they?
      2) Does ISP's sell data to companies? Is it legal?
      3) What are my options of doing some analytics based on IP address and/or zip codes.

      Thanks,
      Raj

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Patrick Mazzotta
      1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you can t drill down to unique users. IP address just isn t unqiue enough to guarantee you
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 28, 2013
        1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you
        can't drill down to unique users. IP address just isn't unqiue enough to
        guarantee you aren't lumping ppl together (think multiple users visiting
        the same website from within the same company office).
        2) That typically is very region specific, but I don't know of any area
        that allows it - and even if it was "legal" I can't see any ISP doing that.
        That is such a massive breach of privacy and security... Why would you even
        want to do that?
        3) There are tonnes of options - but your line of questioning is
        excessively vague. The starting point for building reports isn't "what can
        I do with X" - it's "I need to know Y, how do I get there with these
        restrictions". Maybe you can explain to the group what you're trying to do
        with this unique user drilldown?

        Patrick Mazzotta
        President & Founder
        Craedone Technologies Inc.
        pmazzotta@...


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steve Eisenberg
        Hi Folks: Pertaining to this message thread, I m wondering if anyone can shed some light on how to do geo targeting of content for small to medium sized
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 28, 2013
          Hi Folks:

          Pertaining to this message thread, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on how to do geo targeting of content for small to medium sized businesses?

          Best,
          Steve

          From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Mazzotta
          Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:27 PM
          To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [webanalytics] Re: IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer information ?



          1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you
          can't drill down to unique users. IP address just isn't unqiue enough to
          guarantee you aren't lumping ppl together (think multiple users visiting
          the same website from within the same company office).
          2) That typically is very region specific, but I don't know of any area
          that allows it - and even if it was "legal" I can't see any ISP doing that.
          That is such a massive breach of privacy and security... Why would you even
          want to do that?
          3) There are tonnes of options - but your line of questioning is
          excessively vague. The starting point for building reports isn't "what can
          I do with X" - it's "I need to know Y, how do I get there with these
          restrictions". Maybe you can explain to the group what you're trying to do
          with this unique user drilldown?

          Patrick Mazzotta
          President & Founder
          Craedone Technologies Inc.
          pmazzotta@...<mailto:pmazzotta%40craedonetechnologies.com>

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Hadoop Raj
          Hello Patrick and Steve - Thanks for your replies on this thread. I want to know why can t we infer information about a user when we have an 1) IP address
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 28, 2013
            Hello Patrick and Steve - Thanks for your replies on this thread.

            I want to know why can't we infer information about a user when we have an 1) IP address along with some information like 2) Domain Name and 3) ISP details.

            I was reading that ISP sell data. If that is the case, why can't I get those details. Just want to understand.

            Regards,
            Raj

            On Jul 28, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Steve Eisenberg <steve@...> wrote:

            > Hi Folks:
            >
            > Pertaining to this message thread, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on how to do geo targeting of content for small to medium sized businesses?
            >
            > Best,
            > Steve
            >
            > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Mazzotta
            > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:27 PM
            > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer information ?
            >
            > 1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you
            > can't drill down to unique users. IP address just isn't unqiue enough to
            > guarantee you aren't lumping ppl together (think multiple users visiting
            > the same website from within the same company office).
            > 2) That typically is very region specific, but I don't know of any area
            > that allows it - and even if it was "legal" I can't see any ISP doing that.
            > That is such a massive breach of privacy and security... Why would you even
            > want to do that?
            > 3) There are tonnes of options - but your line of questioning is
            > excessively vague. The starting point for building reports isn't "what can
            > I do with X" - it's "I need to know Y, how do I get there with these
            > restrictions". Maybe you can explain to the group what you're trying to do
            > with this unique user drilldown?
            >
            > Patrick Mazzotta
            > President & Founder
            > Craedone Technologies Inc.
            > pmazzotta@...<mailto:pmazzotta%40craedonetechnologies.com>
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Eric Huang
            Hi, You can get much information from an IP address. That s why IP addresses are considered PII information. From an IP addresses, you can do reverse lookup to
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 28, 2013
              Hi,

              You can get much information from an IP address. That's why IP addresses
              are considered PII information.

              From an IP addresses, you can do reverse lookup to find the domain names
              and ISP names. For some big companies, e.g. Microsoft, Amazon, the ISP
              names are the company names. For smaller companies or individuals at homes,
              the ISP names are like Comcast, which are not very useful. Example APIs are
              here: http://www.whoisxmlapi.com/reverse-whois.php

              From a domain name, you can look up the registrant's information, including
              name, email, address, if the registrant does pay extra to make the record
              private. Example is http://who.godaddy.com/

              From ISP names or company name, you can find contact information in the
              company using services like data.com from salesforce
              http://www.salesforce.com/data/features/.

              Actually, some companies have lead generation products to help you get
              sales leads from the IP addresses using the approaches mentioned above,
              such as http://www.leadlander.com/

              Thanks,

              Eric

              --
              Eric Huang, Ph.D.
              Co-Founder, SkyGlue.com <http://skyglue.com/> |
              @skyglue<http://twitter.com/skyglue>
              425-835-3818 | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericyhuang> |
              @ericyhuang <http://twitter.com/ericyhuang>
              *Google Analytics + SkyGlue = Simple Event Tracking + Better Customer
              Insight*



              On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Hadoop Raj <hadoopraj@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              >
              > Hello Patrick and Steve - Thanks for your replies on this thread.
              >
              > I want to know why can't we infer information about a user when we have an
              > 1) IP address along with some information like 2) Domain Name and 3) ISP
              > details.
              >
              > I was reading that ISP sell data. If that is the case, why can't I get
              > those details. Just want to understand.
              >
              > Regards,
              > Raj
              >
              >
              > On Jul 28, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Steve Eisenberg <steve@...>
              > wrote:
              >
              > > Hi Folks:
              > >
              > > Pertaining to this message thread, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some
              > light on how to do geo targeting of content for small to medium sized
              > businesses?
              > >
              > > Best,
              > > Steve
              > >
              > > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of Patrick Mazzotta
              > > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:27 PM
              > > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer
              > information ?
              > >
              > > 1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you
              > > can't drill down to unique users. IP address just isn't unqiue enough to
              > > guarantee you aren't lumping ppl together (think multiple users visiting
              > > the same website from within the same company office).
              > > 2) That typically is very region specific, but I don't know of any area
              > > that allows it - and even if it was "legal" I can't see any ISP doing
              > that.
              > > That is such a massive breach of privacy and security... Why would you
              > even
              > > want to do that?
              > > 3) There are tonnes of options - but your line of questioning is
              > > excessively vague. The starting point for building reports isn't "what
              > can
              > > I do with X" - it's "I need to know Y, how do I get there with these
              > > restrictions". Maybe you can explain to the group what you're trying to
              > do
              > > with this unique user drilldown?
              > >
              > > Patrick Mazzotta
              > > President & Founder
              > > Craedone Technologies Inc.
              > > pmazzotta@...<mailto:
              > pmazzotta%40craedonetechnologies.com>
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Judah Phillips
              Hi Raj, There s two (and more) angles to the IP address lookup: people IPs (humans) and business IPs (corporations). Many governments and people in countries
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 29, 2013
                Hi Raj,

                There's two (and more) angles to the IP address lookup: people IPs (humans)
                and business IPs (corporations).

                Many governments and people in countries don't want you, your bosses, me,
                my friends, or anyone else resolving a person's IP to their personally
                identifiable information (PII), like first/last name and so on. In some
                countries, laws restrict it, and in other countries, markets restrict it,
                or both.

                On the other hand, business IP's are available to purchase and resolve.
                Some tools do these decodes for you. Otherwise, you can go to Dun &
                Bradstreet and other paid or free sources.

                Judah
                Author of Building a Digital Analytics Organization
                http://www.amazon.com/Building-Digital-Analytics-Organization-Integrating/dp/0133372782

                "A rigorous, professional approach to digital analytics requires the types
                of management approaches that are laid out in this book... Judah Phillips
                has been an advocate of these serious disciplines for a long time, but now
                the world is ready to adopt them--and the book comes along just in time...
                and this one is distinctive in a number of ways and brings into the digital
                analytics space a sophistication in both data management and data analysis
                that is not often found...."

                --Thomas H. Davenport, author of Competing on Analytics and Analytics at
                Work, professor at Harvard Business School and Babson College, and
                cofounder of the International Institute for Analytics


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Patrick Mazzotta
                A few points here. 1) Yes, you can get a lot of info from an IP Address (I never said there was no info to get). HOWEVER - technically that kind of information
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 29, 2013
                  A few points here.
                  1) Yes, you can get a lot of info from an IP Address (I never said there
                  was no info to get). HOWEVER - technically that kind of information does
                  not qualify as "personally identifiable". Multiple people browsing the same
                  website can resolve to the same domains, and even if you had 10 people
                  browsing the website from the same IP, there is no guarantee that any of
                  them will be the person identified in the domain registration info (in
                  fact, in the vast majority of cases, we can be confident that it won't be
                  that contact).
                  2) Not all IPs will resolve to a meaningful domain. Most residential
                  traffic will resolve to an ISP's domain, of whom the registration info has
                  absolutely nothing at all to do with the visiting traffic.
                  3) In Canada ISPs are not allowed to sell their customer's information. I'd
                  love to read the references where you learned about ISP's selling client
                  info. I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the US and most of Europe too. IDK
                  about other regions, but even if you could buy client info, you can't
                  reliably map it to IPs since over 60% (in Canada and the USA it's closer to
                  85%) of residential IPs are dynamically allocated. Any info you get on
                  residential IPs associated by name will be stale within days.So even if you
                  could, you'd be paying for garbage.

                  The reason why there are such tight restrictions about giving IP/client
                  info is because it's an invasion of personal privacy. Even governments need
                  warrants (in Canada and USA) to get that info. Bottom line: I'm very
                  sceptical of the source which informed you that ISPs sell this information.

                  In the world of analytics nothing is boolean. This isn't a question of "can
                  I" or "can't I" get info from an IP. It's an issue of quality, reliability,
                  depth, and breadth of the info you can get.

                  Patrick Mazzotta
                  President & Founder
                  Craedone Technologies Inc.
                  pmazzotta@...


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Raj Hadoop
                    Thank you every one who posted answers to my query. I am learning a lot of stuff on this thread.   Regards, Raj ________________________________ From:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 30, 2013
                     
                    Thank you every one who posted answers to my query. I am learning a lot of stuff on this thread.
                     
                    Regards,
                    Raj


                    ________________________________
                    From: Patrick Mazzotta <pmazzotta@...>
                    To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 4:02 PM
                    Subject: [webanalytics] Re: IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer information ?

                     
                    A few points here.
                    1) Yes, you can get a lot of info from an IP Address (I never said there
                    was no info to get). HOWEVER - technically that kind of information does
                    not qualify as "personally identifiable". Multiple people browsing the same
                    website can resolve to the same domains, and even if you had 10 people
                    browsing the website from the same IP, there is no guarantee that any of
                    them will be the person identified in the domain registration info (in
                    fact, in the vast majority of cases, we can be confident that it won't be
                    that contact).
                    2) Not all IPs will resolve to a meaningful domain. Most residential
                    traffic will resolve to an ISP's domain, of whom the registration info has
                    absolutely nothing at all to do with the visiting traffic.
                    3) In Canada ISPs are not allowed to sell their customer's information. I'd
                    love to read the references where you learned about ISP's selling client
                    info. I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the US and most of Europe too. IDK
                    about other regions, but even if you could buy client info, you can't
                    reliably map it to IPs since over 60% (in Canada and the USA it's closer to
                    85%) of residential IPs are dynamically allocated. Any info you get on
                    residential IPs associated by name will be stale within days.So even if you
                    could, you'd be paying for garbage.

                    The reason why there are such tight restrictions about giving IP/client
                    info is because it's an invasion of personal privacy. Even governments need
                    warrants (in Canada and USA) to get that info. Bottom line: I'm very
                    sceptical of the source which informed you that ISPs sell this information.

                    In the world of analytics nothing is boolean. This isn't a question of "can
                    I" or "can't I" get info from an IP. It's an issue of quality, reliability,
                    depth, and breadth of the info you can get.

                    Patrick Mazzotta
                    President & Founder
                    Craedone Technologies Inc.
                    mailto:pmazzotta%40craedonetechnologies.com

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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